Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Metal Shop X]

You know PoR Ike gets doubled by generics as soon as CH4? In RD Ike isn't a speed demon either.


Play Gaiden, Echoes, PoR, or RD and Fates will no longer be your least favorite.

OK, very fast isn't the best choice of words. But his speed stats are good/decent in his games, right?

 

[staindgrey]

Play Gaiden, Echoes, PoR, or RD and Fates will no longer be your least favorite.

I'm curious about your reasoning. I can understand not liking the Gaiden/Echoes formula since it's so radically different, but this might be the first time I've ever seen someone claim Ike's games are worse than Fates. Radiant Dawn might be my favorite FE game, at least top 3. And Fates is definitely without a doubt my least favorite.

 

[Schnee117]

OK, very fast isn't the best choice of words. But his speed stats are good/decent in his games, right?

His speed growth rate in PoR is 55% with it being 7 at base.
RD is 23 at base with a 35% growth rate.

 

[Metal Shop X]

His speed growth rate in PoR is 55% with it being 7 at base.
RD is 23 at base with a 35% growth rate.

Sooooooo.....
It is good or bad or decent? I'm not the best FE expert here admittedly.

 

[---]

Fates didn't really disappoint me as I never had any hype for it, and I pretty much agree with most points that have already been made. The game as a whole in terms of narrative & gameplay was too ambitious for it's own good. I also wasn't a fan of Kozaki returning; his black/white art is good, but in-game I find them bland.

Awakening killed a lot of the interest I had for the franchise going forward; aside from re-playability I can't think of anything it did better than any other entry before it. The game had SO much potential, and it fell hard. First new game in half a decade, a sequel to Mystery of the Emblem, better hardware, Tiki & Falchion returning, and Marth(?). Both it and Fates are good games that I wouldn't never recommend, but IMO they're the Brawl/Skyward Sword/Zero/Gen 7/NSMB of the franchise.

Robin & Corrin I'm cool with being in Smash as they do offer something that the others don't (though F.Corrin should have been the default). I can kind of see Lucina, but I think Chrom should have stayed apart of Robin and have had the Echo spot go to a rep from an un-repped game like FE4/8 or a more popular character like Lyn.

This conversation is making me crave some classic FE. Luckily, I'll soon have Valkyria Chronicles 4, which scratches the exact same itch for me. Seriously, Valkyria Chronicles feels more like pre-Awakening FE to me than Awakening does. That might sound weird with how different it is, but it creates the same feeling for me.

Valkyria Chronicles satisfied the Fire Emblem itch I had during the wait between Shadow Dragon & Awakening. It's a shame the 3rd game never came overseas, as the first two games were fantastic. I just wouldn't recommend the anime.

 

[Enchess]

I'm curious about your reasoning. I can understand not liking the Gaiden/Echoes formula since it's so radically different, but this might be the first time I've ever seen someone claim Ike's games are worse than Fates. Radiant Dawn might be my favorite FE game, at least top 3. And Fates is definitely without a doubt my least favorite.

It's not the lowest on my list, but I dislike how big Radiant Dawn maps are and I think forging added more in complexity than it added in value, which is a big no-no for me. I also literally cant remember most of the cast, which is a bad sign.

I still really enjoyed it, just less

 

[MetroLSD]

Any credible leaks from over the post three days?

 

[Schnee117]

Sooooooo.....
It is good or bad or decent? I'm not the best FE expert here admittedly.

They're pretty good. Ike should, on average, be able to cap his speed in PoR and get close to his cap in RD so he's pretty capable when it comes to doubling and not being doubled.

 

[staindgrey]

Although, I will say story isn't a strong point for FE in general, so ruining story by splitting into 3 doesn't seem like a huge deal to me personally.

Well, I can't speak for the other poster, but it's less "story" and more character development that heavily suffers. The already trope-y characters seem even more like stock characters when you jump from one game to the other. Xander is a COMPLETELY different person depending on which version you're playing, and not in an intriguing "different side of the story" way. It's like two different people wrote him and never shared notes.

They spread the cast too thin, relied more on giving characters personality through their art than their dialog, and any character's motivation outside of Corrin is totally dictated by which game you're playing. It just... It reads like fan fiction, to be bluntly honest. I know people enjoyed Fates for various reasons, but the writing is just so very bad in certain objective ways, and those problems can likely be attributed to the decision to split the story into 2 (technically 3) games.

 

[Blargg888]

My guess? The whole "anime swordsman = BAD because anime = BAD" mentality some people seem to have.

I mean, at the risk of generalizing, that’s pretty much the only reason I can think of too.
I mean, think about it:
Was Xenoblade a bad game? No.
Is Shulk a bad character? No.
Does Shulk come from a series that is already heavily featured in Smash? No.
Was Shulk added just as an advetisement? No.
Is Shulk’s moveset unoriginal? No.
Does Shulk not have anything special that sets him apart from the other sword wielders in the cast? No.

Shulk, honestly, I’d argue is actually one of Smash’s better additions.

 

[Opossum]

I don't know why they split it into 2 games. FE isn't Pokemon.

From a corporate standpoint, money.

From an artistic standpoint, giving more importance to the Samson/Arran choice.

For those who don't know what I mean, one of the recurring ideas in Fire Emblem is the Samson/Arran archetype, named after two characters from Marth's saga, Samson and Arran. In Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light/Shadow Dragon, you could only recruit one and not the other. Due to their villages hating each other, if you recruited Samson, Arran's village would close its doors to Marth, and vice versa. This sort of archetype happened a lot in the series, such as Deen and Sonya or Shura and a pair of Boots.

So the developers also wanted it to make a meaningful impact...only for it to be kind of delegitimized with Revelation being a combined Golden Ending in which my favorite Fates character isn't even playable like come on.

 

[Starbound]

Radiant Dawn is so fun if you're into speedrunning or any kind of fast play, because the skill system, movement features and forging all combine in turning the game into a legitimate puzzle, which is what I like out of my strategy games. Radiant Dawn was the first game I tried it with and it honestly changed my opinion of the game. It works great with PoR too, provided you like mounts (because that's all that game is).

That's also why I like Awakening because the Rescue staff and Galeforce makes speeding through the game honestly pretty enjoyable for me. I know it's not a playstyle for everyone, but it's become my preferred way to play FE on repeat playthroughs.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

The only FE games I've played are PoR, RD and Awakening, and I enjoyed all three of them. I'm not sure what it is about the Tellius games, but they really sucked me in, I think the way it presented its world and different factions made me care a lot about its conflict and how it'd turn out, which made up for some of their gameplay deficiencies. This is something I felt Awakening could have done better, I didn't care about Ylisse, the political tension or any of the bad guys, I liked the three lead characters enough to keep me invested, even if they weren't all that deep, and it was also super easy to pick up and play, but there were a lot of things that felt like they were wasted or could have been done better. With the Tellius games I cared about the whole package, maybe more so with PoR than with RD as the new characters didn't do much for me, but I still loved both.

I'm not sure I'm ever going to delve much deeper into the series' library, there are so many games and once you start playing one it becomes a pretty big commitment, but I do have a lot of respect for its history. As far as its representation in Smash goes I do agree it's a bit much, and it's a shame that it's largely limited to sword users, but I'm willing to be a dirty hypocrite on that front if it gets me Black Knight lol.

 

[CJ Falcon]

Fates didn't really disappoint me as I never had any hype for it, and I pretty much agree with most points that have already been made. The game as a whole in terms of narrative & gameplay was too ambitious for it's own good. I also wasn't a fan of Kozaki returning; his black/white art is good, but in-game I find them bland.

Awakening killed a lot of the interest I had for the franchise going forward; aside from re-playability I can't think of anything it did better than any other entry before it. The game had SO much potential, and it fell hard. First new game in half a decade, a sequel to Mystery of the Emblem, better hardware, Tiki & Falchion returning, and Marth(?). Both it and Fates are good games that I wouldn't never recommend, but IMO they're the Brawl/Skyward Sword/Zero/Gen 7/NSMB of the franchise.

Robin & Corrin I'm cool with being in Smash as they do offer something that the others don't (though F.Corrin should have been the default). I can kind of see Lucina, but I think Chrom should have stayed apart of Robin and have had the Echo spot go to a rep from an un-repped game like FE4/8 or a more popular character like Lyn.



Valkyria Chronicles satisfied the Fire Emblem itch I had during the wait between Shadow Dragon & Awakening. It's a shame the 3rd game never came overseas, as the first two games were fantastic. I just wouldn't recommend the anime.

What's particularly bland about Kozaki Yusuke's art? He's one of the few manga artists I actually like. Mostly due to his characters' outfits though.

 

[Heracr055]

We can all agree that Clair is an amazing Fire Emblem character...disagree and be forced to learn the truth

Nah

Clair is a Gym Leader with big blue boots, a bad attitude and bad breath.

 

[Pakky]

Dark should be a thing...

 

[Metal Shop X]

Both it and Fates are good games that I wouldn't never recommend, but IMO they're the Brawl/Skyward Sword/Zero/Gen 7/NSMB of the franchise.

Wait, which game with a Zero you are refering?

Let me warn you, if you say anything bad about mah boy Mega Man Zero, I!!!!......respect your opinion, but be a bit sad.

If it's anything else however, then ignore this.

They're pretty good. Ike should, on average, be able to cap his speed in PoR and get close to his cap in RD so he's pretty capable when it comes to doubling and not being doubled.

So he is quit fast, not god speed or anything, but still far from the slow Ike we have in Brawl and to a lesset extent Smash 4.

 

[staindgrey]

So the developers also wanted it to make a meaningful impact...only for it to be kind of delegitimized with Revelation being a combined Golden Ending in which my favorite Fates character isn't even playable like come on.

Out of curiosity, which one is that?

 

[praline]

From a corporate standpoint, money.

From an artistic standpoint, giving more importance to the Samson/Arran choice.

For those who don't know what I mean, one of the recurring ideas in Fire Emblem is the Samson/Arran archetype, named after two characters from Marth's saga, Samson and Arran. In Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light/Shadow Dragon, you could only recruit one and not the other. Due to their villages hating each other, if you recruited Samson, Arran's village would close its doors to Marth, and vice versa. This sort of archetype happened a lot in the series, such as Deen and Sonya or Shura and a pair of Boots.

So the developers also wanted it to make a meaningful impact...only for it to be kind of delegitimized with Revelation being a combined Golden Ending in which my favorite Fates character isn't even playable like come on.

Is it Flora or uhh... glasses guy? The pretty boy priest?

 

[Blargg888]

Out of curiosity, which one is that?

Most likely Izana.
Either him or Yukimura.

 

[WaxPython]

I thought fates was really good. I bought the collectors edition so I treated all 3 games as one game and it was a blast from start to finish.

I imagine looking at the games as standalone and not part of a whole would tarnish the experience.

If you're only going to play 1 then play conquest with classic difficulty. Perfect challenge for the modern gamer.

 

[Opossum]

Out of curiosity, which one is that?

I am one of approximately seven Yukimura fans.

 

[Bestmand902]

So the developers also wanted it to make a meaningful impact...only for it to be kind of delegitimized with Revelation being a combined Golden Ending

I don't mind that, Golden endings are the best, nobody has to die.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Dark should be a thing...

A little bit difficult when this is how Dark Samus looks on the inside:

Spoiler

The Metroid Prime never absorbed anything from Samus herself, only her Phazon Suit, so it's basically just some monstrosity shaping itself in the suit's image.

 

[Blargg888]

I am one of approximately seven Yukimura fans.

Ah. Thou art a rare breed.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

I really hope Captain N is our wtf newcomer this time.

Guys, Captain N is already playable!

 

[Blargg888]

I don't mind that, Golden endings are the best, nobody has to die.

...
Uh, about that...

From a corporate standpoint, money.

From an artistic standpoint, giving more importance to the Samson/Arran choice.

For those who don't know what I mean, one of the recurring ideas in Fire Emblem is the Samson/Arran archetype, named after two characters from Marth's saga, Samson and Arran. In Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light/Shadow Dragon, you could only recruit one and not the other. Due to their villages hating each other, if you recruited Samson, Arran's village would close its doors to Marth, and vice versa. This sort of archetype happened a lot in the series, such as Deen and Sonya or Shura and a pair of Boots.

So the developers also wanted it to make a meaningful impact...only for it to be kind of delegitimized with Revelation being a combined Golden Ending in which my favorite Fates character isn't even playable like come on.

Wallace and Geitz... Karel or Harken... I wish I could have gotten them all.

 

[WaxPython]

Dark should be a thing...

No because Dark Samus is Metroid prime there's nothing resembling Zero suit Samus under the suit besides her DNA being a base for the copy. It wouldn't be practical for the manifestation on phazon to copy a female from head to toe.

 

[Deleted member]

Imagine having this Mario in Smash:

 

[Bestmand902]

...
Uh, about that...

Lemme rephrase that;
I just don't think there's anything wrong with a happy ending like Revelations had.

 

[Opossum]

I don't mind that, Golden endings are the best, nobody has to die.

My issue with it is that, thematically, it makes Birthright and Conquest kind of pointless, but that's a discussion I'd rather not get into lol.

Ah. Thou art a rare breed.

That's what happens when you're a late-game recruit with a non-standard recruitment method, only support Corrin, end up being the least popular Fates character on the official popularity poll, and are only playable in one path out of three.

But on the other hand, he's an older bespectacled guy (rare in the series) who rides a mechanical death puppet into battle and gives more context to Sumeragi and Mikoto, alongside being voiced by Colonel Campbell.

 

[Nonno Umby]

I am one of approximately seven Yukimura fans.

Among the "excluded" from Revelations Yukimura was my second favourite. Especially since he looks like a Medieval Otacon.
But my heart will forever be with Izana...he didn't deserved that...

 

[AndreaAC]

Imagine having this Mario in Smash:

xD I have watched this since yesterday more than once and doesn't cease to make me laugh! I WOULD MAIN THAT MARIO!

 

[Bestmand902]

My issue with it is that, thematically, it makes Birthright and Conquest kind of pointless, but that's a discussion I'd rather not get into lol.

Ahhh, I gotcha now.

 

[Starphoenix]

Just going to throw this out there because I haven’t seen anyone mention it here or on ResetEra: Saki Amamiya as an echo fighter for Shulk. Only thing that’d probably be unique for Saki is his standard B would have to be changed to gunfire. Chrom showed us anything Echoes can pull from other source material when it makes sense for the character. Perhaps one of Mii Gunner’s old custom special moves?

 

[Sonic Poke]

Why is the title of the thread stating possible spoilers? Any new credible leak or something?

 

[Pakky]

No because Dark Samus is Metroid prime there's nothing resembling Zero suit Samus under the suit besides her DNA being a base for the copy. It wouldn't be practical for the manifestation on phazon to copy a female from head to toe.

A little bit difficult when this is how Dark Samus looks on the inside:

Spoiler

The Metroid Prime never absorbed anything from Samus herself, only her Phazon Suit, so it's basically just some monstrosity shaping itself in the suit's image.

Spoiler: :(

You're both right, though.

 

[staindgrey]

Imagine having this Mario in Smash:

The constant smashing through doors cracks me up.

Get the key. Put the key in the door. Unlock the door. Smash a hole in the door anyway.

Quality humor.

 

[monadoboy]

Just going to throw this out there because I haven’t seen anyone mention it here or on ResetEra: Saki Amamiya as an echo fighter for Shulk. Only thing that’d probably be unique for Saki is his standard B would have to be changed to gunfire. Chrom showed us anything Echoes can pull from other source material when it makes sense for the character. Perhaps one of Mii Gunner’s old custom special moves?

Eh, they would've to rework much more than Chrom due to the Monado's two hit properties in several moves, and there's several candidates from Xenoblade that can be Shulk's Echo.
Saki is much better as off as an unique, plus he could have Isa as an Echo.

 

[Deleted member]

I just hate Golden Routes as a concept because they invalidate anything else the game has. They're just boring and make it feel like any conflict in the game was easily avoidable.
I don't mind Golden Endings that are explicitely hidden and hard to get, such as by making it only attainable through weirdly specific choices and actions.
My one problem with Undertale's story is that you can get the Golden Ending by simply playing the entire game as it was supposed to be played and not only invalidates the other two playstyles but outright condemns you for even trying to do them.