Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Chrono.]

I don't care for Fates but Corrin is fun in Smash.

 

[Enchess]

For me, Corrin in Smash & Corrin in Fates are like two different entity.

Corrin in Smash is a fun swordman character with cool shapeshifting power that I like using from time to time, Corrin in FE is a wayyyy less interesting avatar type character in every way compared to Robin beside the shapeshifting power.

I know that they are the same character, but frankly, Smash doesn't have always the best track record when it come to how character should act or feel (Palutena is wayyy more snarky than in Uprising, and Ike is really slow for a character that was very fast in his home game), so I just treat their canon counterpart and their Smash counterpart as separate character in my mind.

Like optimist Shulk who isn't obsessed with killing every last Mechon.

 

[Untouch]

To me, Corrin felt like she was added only to serve as an advertisement for a series that was already getting a lot of focus in the game, if she wasn't added until Ultimate I don't think the backlash would have been nearly as big.

And do people really dislike Shulk's addition? Why?

 

[Honest Slug]

Speak for yourself.

I mean a couple people liking Fates doesn't change the fact that it's one of the most controversial Fire Emblem games.

 

[Michele]

I don't care for Fates but Corrin is fun in Smash.

Well, the thing I wanted to say was that most of the peoples who hate Corrin just simply hate him. 90% of peoples that hate him will not provide reason. 10% actually provide a reply.

 

[?????????????]

I like Corrin and Fates is my favorite Fire Emblem.

I might agree Corrin is a bit bland personality-wise, but I still think she's better than Roy, Eliwood, and possibly even Marth.

 

[staindgrey]

The thing is that Corrin wasn't added because she would've been a good character, she was added entirely for advertisement, and as opposed to Roy, she had more dev time put towards her. That's what gets people, regardless of if her moveset is unique.

I disagree. I think the reason for her inclusion is a convenient excuse to fall back on and legitimize just plain not wanting a Fates (or FE in general) character.

If K. Rool were added just because there's a new DK game coming up with him as the big bad, would anyone give a **** that that's the reason?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

View attachment 162341

There’s only one wrestler allowed in Smash (besides the obvious John Cena)

Spoiler: Only wrestling fans will know why this counts as one fighter

 

[SebasSancy]

Love Corrin in smash, for me the more unique FE character, all the other feels the same (except Robin)

 

[Metal Shop X]

Like optimist Shulk who isn't obsessed with killing every last Mechon.

Heh, killing every last mechon isn't just the only thing Shulk has character-wise.

Plus, Smash is a fighting game where canon doesn't stand, so Shulk shouldn't worry about Mechon all the time.

What is weird is how jolly he is, while in Xenoblade, he is much more relax, not stoic, but he can control his emotion as long Fiora & Metal face aren't in the building. I wonder if that's because Shulk in the japanese version of Xenoblade is much more joyful than the English one.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

....Also, just to get it off my chest.

When someone tells me they don't like a character I like, that's fine. It's their opinion, and it doesn't bother me.

When someone tells me a character I like is BAD, it feels like a personal attack. Like my preferences are worthless.

I don't really find myself getting peeved by the fact that others dislike or even hate characters I like, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and there are of course characters in the game I myself don't like. Like with everything else it depends a lot on how people express themselves, if someone is being a huge idiot about it then it really has nothing to do with characters or myself, it just has more to do with the other person being a bit of a knobhead and lacking a sense of perspective, which is annoying in every situation in life.

I used to have characters I really didn't want in Smash, and I could talk about it a lot, but these days I just find it silly, being actively anti-any character only serves selfish purposes, and nobody else in the whole wide world gives a damn about that sort of jabbering.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

The way i see it, Sakurai probably had a moveset plan for Elma but it wouldn’t work on 3DS, and if she couldn’t be on 3DS, she couldn’t be on Wii U either.

 

[Guynamednelson]

And do people really dislike Shulk's addition? Why?

Not knowing he's not from Fire Emblem.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

The way i see it, Sakurai probably had a moveset plan for Elma but it wouldn’t work on 3DS, and if she couldn’t be on 3DS, she couldn’t be on Wii U either.

That’s kind of a random assumption. What makes you think that?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

For me, Corrin in Smash & Corrin in Fates are like two different entity.

Corrin in Smash is a fun swordman character with cool shapeshifting power that I like using from time to time, Corrin in FE is a wayyyy less interesting avatar type character in every way compared to Robin beside the shapeshifting power.

I know that they are the same character, but frankly, Smash doesn't have always the best track record when it come to how character should act or feel (Palutena is wayyy more snarky than in Uprising, and Ike is really slow for a character that was very fast in his home game), so I just treat their canon counterpart and their Smash counterpart as separate character in my mind.

And then there’s Female Corrin in Heroes/Warriors...the best Corrin

 

[Enchess]

I mean a couple people liking Fates doesn't change the fact that it's one of the most controversial Fire Emblem games.

Ok, semi-rant coming:

I couldn't be bothered to play Fates. Awakening was the least fun I've ever had in a FE game, having played every FE out in America at the time. I still liked it, but it killed any excitement I had for the series overall, so I just skipped Fates since it looked like every complaint I had would be amplified there.

Based on the complaints I always hear about Fates, I don't really understand why the strong Fates haters didn't do the same thing as me. It should've been obvious Fates wasn't a game for them.

Idk, Im starting to get a bit irritated at Fates hate the same reason I'm starting to get irritated at Let's Go hate. The game clearly isn't for you, so don't play it. It's not like a bait and switch where it promises everything you want and gives you something different. It's up front about it. Its practically screaming "Warning: Fans of older entries probably won't like this"

Just needed to get that off my chest. I just don't understand why Fates is the scapegoat when most of it's problems are Awakening's fault.

 

[SebasSancy]

The way i see it, Sakurai probably had a moveset plan for Elma but it wouldn’t work on 3DS, and if she couldn’t be on 3DS, she couldn’t be on Wii U either.

I always believe the smae about Isaac! hahaha

 

[MojoRobo]

If K. Rool were added just because there's a new DK game coming up with him as the big bad, would anyone give a **** that that's the reason?

Maybe not, but the difference is that K. Rool is from games people actually like, he's a character people explicitly wanted, and he added representation to a series that lacked it. Corrin embodies the complete opposite of that, nobody liked Fates aside from a handful of people, nobody explicitly wanted her, and FE was definitely not lacking in representation in 4. All of that, on top of her advertisement-i fluenced inclusion, is what people don't like about her.

 

[MrRoidley]

about Corrin, yeah back then I'd prefer Elma, Wolf (for Star Fox Zero) or Azura as the advertisement DLC character. Since everyone is here now, I honestly don't care anymore

 

[Enchess]

Heh, killing every last mechon isn't just the only thing Shulk has character-wise.

Plus, Smash is a fighting game where canon doesn't stand, so Shulk shouldn't worry about Mechon all the time.

What is weird is how jolly he is, while in Xenoblade, he is much more relax, not stoic, but he can control his emotion as long Fiora & Metal face aren't in the building. I wonder if that's because Shulk in the japanese version of Xenoblade is much more joyful than the English one.

Yeah, I was criticizing his jolliness in a way I found funny (reminding everyone Shulk is literally genocidal), not seriously expecting canon motivations

 

[monadoboy]

And do people really dislike Shulk's addition? Why?

My guess? The whole "anime swordsman = BAD because anime = BAD" mentality some people seem to have.

 

[Admiral Pit]

I guess I'm one of the rare ones that is naturally picky when it comes to characters or something. As far as the roster goes, I'll skip the FE part as I have already mentioned my troubles with it. Even now I'm getting used to a few of the recent characters, then there's some I will never get used to (I still have troubles with Bayo for example), though other reasons may relate to how powerful they are or just my picky nature in general. I still think my thoughts are terrible sometimes, but sometimes it has its benefits.

Then I look back at Kid Icarus in general as an example... There's some wants that trouble me, while I have interest in a popular choice and an uncommon choice, while being more cautious about certain wants. I probably could say more, but I just worry too much about what others would think and the fact that I'm likely a minority in opinion, just fearing of what the majority would do.

 

[?????????????]

My guess? The whole "anime swordsman = BAD because anime = BAD" some people seem to have.

Yeah, people will say anything to invalidate character choices that aren't their own.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

That’s kind of a random assumption. What makes you think that?

I mean it’s not like Shulk’s buffs where only his stats change. My imagined mechanic for Elma is that she changes weapons (from dual swords to dual firearms) and with it, her specials might change, I dunno. Or it could be something with a Skell, like her potential Final Smash, and it would be too much for the 3DS. Idk I’m just spitballing here

But it wouldn’t surprise me if true

 

[WertQuadNine]

Was there a significant leak or something last night? Why did the title change?

 

[Deleted member]

Ok, semi-rant coming:

I couldn't be bothered to play Fates. Awakening was the least fun I've ever had in a FE game, having played every FE out in America at the time. I still liked it, but it killed any excitement I had for the series overall, so I just skipped Fates since it looked like every complaint I had would be amplified there.

Based on the complaints I always hear about Fates, I don't really understand why the strong Fates haters didn't do the same thing as me. It should've been obvious Fates wasn't a game for them.

Idk, Im starting to get a bit irritated at Fates hate the same reason I'm starting to get irritated at Let's Go hate. The game clearly isn't for you, so don't play it. It's not like a bait and switch where it promises everything you want and gives you something different. It's up front about it. Its practically screaming "Warning: Fans of older entries probably won't like this"

Just needed to get that off my chest. I just don't understand why Fates is the scapegoat when most of it's problems are Awakening's fault.

Awakening and Fates are the only two FE I've ever played. I kinda wonder what I've missed out on if those 2 are seen as a bit of a low point in the series lol.

Was there a significant leak or something last night? Why did the title change?

I think that its because the Direct didn't air as intended, there's a chance that other companies will start leaking information. There's also word of the Direct (as its prerecorded) is out there somewhere. Plus, Famitsu may release before the Direct's rescheduled date (which still hasnt been established as far as Im aware of) which will show off new characters if they were featured in the Direct.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Well I can say that we are probably closer than we think for the new date

 

[RawstyleEevee]

Ok, semi-rant coming:

I couldn't be bothered to play Fates. Awakening was the least fun I've ever had in a FE game, having played every FE out in America at the time. I still liked it, but it killed any excitement I had for the series overall, so I just skipped Fates since it looked like every complaint I had would be amplified there.

Based on the complaints I always hear about Fates, I don't really understand why the strong Fates haters didn't do the same thing as me. It should've been obvious Fates wasn't a game for them.

Idk, Im starting to get a bit irritated at Fates hate the same reason I'm starting to get irritated at Let's Go hate. The game clearly isn't for you, so don't play it. It's not like a bait and switch where it promises everything you want and gives you something different. It's up front about it. Its practically screaming "Warning: Fans of older entries probably won't like this"

Just needed to get that off my chest. I just don't understand why Fates is the scapegoat when most of it's problems are Awakening's fault.

Fates really suffered from being split up in 3 games. Like Revelations is a really unbalanced mess gameplay wise and well the overall story of Fates suffered to, because of the game being split up

 

[Metal Shop X]

Yeah, I was criticizing his jolliness in a way I found funny (reminding everyone Shulk is literally genocidal), not seriously expecting canon motivations

Real talk, the Shulk/Mega Man/ROB match-up should be 100:0 in Shulk's favor.

'can't believe Samurai didn't put that important detail in Smash.

 

[staindgrey]

Ok, semi-rant coming:

I couldn't be bothered to play Fates. Awakening was the least fun I've ever had in a FE game, having played every FE out in America at the time. I still liked it, but it killed any excitement I had for the series overall, so I just skipped Fates since it looked like every complaint I had would be amplified there.

Based on the complaints I always hear about Fates, I don't really understand why the strong Fates haters didn't do the same thing as me. It should've been obvious Fates wasn't a game for them.

Idk, Im starting to get a bit irritated at Fates hate the same reason I'm starting to get irritated at Let's Go hate. The game clearly isn't for you, so don't play it. It's not like a bait and switch where it promises everything you want and gives you something different. It's up front about it. Its practically screaming "Warning: Fans of older entries probably won't like this"

Just needed to get that off my chest. I just don't understand why Fates is the scapegoat when most of it's problems are Awakening's fault.

Except for a couple things:

1) Nintendo actively said multiple times that Conquest was geared toward fans of the older FE games. That was one of the major reasons they had for legitimizing the Pokemon Red/Blue style of splitting the game into two releases.

2) While this isn't the place to go into detail, I could write essays on the fundamental differences between Awakening and Fates from a narrative perspective that would show why even fans of Awakening would likely be disappointed by Fates. It's not just old FE fans who might not like it.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

It's also worth noting that elma would've kind of required a stage to come with her since Gaur Plains is specific to Shulk, plus they wouldn't have been able to base her off of a pre-existing character like Corrin did with Ike. (Maybe ZSS but it still would've required probably more work)

I have no doubt that Elma was considered for the promotional DLC character since fates and X's releases were pretty close but Corrin would've been chosen since fire emblem is more popular and it would've been a safer bet that it would sell, being easier to develop, and Fates japanese release being a couple months closer.

 

[Llort A. Ton]

have all come in to redeem 's sins for me. I will never forget, but I shall forgive until the next 2 FE characters come in.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

nobody liked Fates aside from a handful of people

Vocal Minority. All three game paths have been given positive reviews and are still being promoted in Fire Emblem related things like Heores and Warriors (and also Smash of course)

Awakening and Fates are the only two FE I've ever played

Play Echoes

Fates really suffered from being split up in 3 games. Like Revelations is a really unbalanced mess gameplay wise and well the overall story of Fates suffered to, because of the game being split up

Birthright: Best story
Conquest: Best gameplay (and also best Azura dance)
Revelations: Best path with an equal story and game...also canon

It's also worth noting that elma would've kind of required a stage to come with her since Gaur Plains is specific to Shulk, plus they wouldn't have been able to base her off of a pre-existing character like Corrin did with Ike. (Maybe ZSS but it still would've required probably more work)

I have no doubt that Elma was considered for the promotional DLC character since fates and X's releases were pretty close but Corrin would've been chosen since fire emblem is more popular and it would've been a safer bet that it would sell, being easier to develop, and Fates japanese release being a couple months closer.

Not related to what you’re saying...but I’m only just realizing Dixie is playing a banana guitar

 

[Ignoritus]

I disagree. I think the reason for her inclusion is a convenient excuse to fall back on and legitimize just plain not wanting a Fates (or FE in general) character.

If K. Rool were added just because there's a new DK game coming up with him as the big bad, would anyone give a **** that that's the reason?

Try to consider the circumstances of Smash 4 DLC. People heard that DLC was coming and got super excited that all of the super popular characters that were overlooked for some of the rather strange inclusions present in Smash 4 were getting another chance sooner than expected. In the end we got literally one brand new first-party character. And were they an eagerly-awaited fan favorite? No, they were a character from an already well-represented series that already got two newcomers in the base game and a DLC character and they were added purely for advertising despite having no substantial existing fanbase behind them.

People were pissed with the advertising choice because it was the only first-party DLC newcomer.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Oh nice

In October the smash demo will finally be playable in the Netherlands!

Saves money from going to the states

 

[Deleted member]

Fates is mostly a bad game that was handled badly by being separated into three games. Birthright is either boringly easy or stupidly annoying(the later chapters get really obnoxious) and Revelations is a gimmick fest with terrible balance. All of the stories feel like the first draft that they came up with, BR is passable at the most, Conquest is stupid and only serves to set up Revelation, and Revelation is the unnecessary Golden "Everyone Lives" Fanfic Route.
The only redeeming factor it has is Conquest's gameplay and map dedign which is just perfect and I mean it when I say it has my favorite maps in the entire series(though some are just... bad, likd the Kitsune Village or Mr. Fuga's Wild Wind Ride)

Like optimist Shulk who isn't obsessed with killing every last Mechon.

Optimist Shulk is just endgame Shulk tho. It's completely in character.

 

[?????????????]

Awakening and Fates are the only two FE I've ever played. I kinda wonder what I've missed out on if those 2 are seen as a bit of a low point in the series lol.

I'm in about the same boat. Fire Emblem never interested me until Awakening; it always looked slow and boring, and the characters in the trailers and on the boxes looked uninteresting to me, so I didn't spend my limited money on them. Awakening was the first to catch my eye, and I loved it. I loved Fates too.

Now I'm a little more experienced in Fire Emblem, and....yeah. I still like Awakening and Fates, but the older games have a different appeal gameplay-wise, and I can understand why people who grew up with that would be annoyed with the later titles.

Also, the main characters being the most boring ones has ALWAYS been a thing. It's the side characters that join your army that are far more interesting.

Fates really suffered from being split up in 3 games. Like Revelations is a really unbalanced mess gameplay wise and well the overall story of Fates suffered to, because of the game being split up

No matter how much I like Fates, this is absolutely true. The story is a mess, and a lot of that stems from how they tried to milk the whole experience out into three games.

 

[Jetsurge]

Fates is mostly a bad game that was handled badly by being separated into three games. Birthright is either boringly easy or stupidly annoying(the later chapters get really obnoxious) and Revelations is a gimmick fest with terrible balance. All of the stories feel like the first draft that they came up with, BR is passable at the most, Conquest is stupid and only serves to set up Revelation, and Revelation is the unnecessary Golden "Everyone Lives" Fanfic Route.
The only redeeming factor it has is Conquest's gameplay and map dedign which is just perfect and I mean it when I say it has my favorite maps in the entire series(though some are just... bad, likd the Kitsune Village or Mr. Fuga's Wild Wind Ride)

I don't know why they split it into 2 games. FE isn't Pokemon.

 

[Enchess]

Awakening and Fates are the only two FE I've ever played. I kinda wonder what I've missed out on if those 2 are seen as a bit of a low point in the series lol.

It's a different series essentially. If you like the gameplay of Awakening and Fates in a vacuum and enjoy the tension of permadeath, you'll probably enjoy it. If the characters, story, art, tone, and "waifu" aspect are why you like it, old FE is a different beast and it'll alienate you.

Fates really suffered from being split up in 3 games. Like Revelations is a really unbalanced mess gameplay wise and well the overall story of Fates suffered to, because of the game being split up

That's a fair reason to dislike Fates that isn't also a complaint on Awakening, it's just not the one I hear most. I hear waifus, tonal inconsistencies, bland main character, less consistent difficulty, the art style. Those are all issues in Awakening and all things I fully expected out of Fates, which is why I skipped.

Although, I will say story isn't a strong point for FE in general, so ruining story by splitting into 3 doesn't seem like a huge deal to me personally.

 

[staindgrey]

Maybe not, but the difference is that K. Rool is from games people actually like, he's a character people explicitly wanted, and he added representation to a series that lacked it. Corrin embodies the complete opposite of that, nobody liked Fates aside from a handful of people, nobody explicitly wanted her, and FE was definitely not lacking in representation in 4. All of that, on top of her advertisement-i fluenced inclusion, is what people don't like about her.

And I understand that, but as I stated, the reason for her inclusion is not *the* reason they dislike her. It's only a convenient excuse to lean onto to avoid admitting to the other, much more prominent reasons.

Also, while I personally very much disliked Fates, dismissing the entire fan base as a "handful" is disingenuous. Fates has a surprisingly strong following. It's just that the people who disliked it are particularly loud about it, and the Smash community becomes an echo chamber of that negative character sentiment since it includes people who don't even play Fire Emblem but want to have a say on what characters "deserve" to be in the game.