Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[PsychoIncarnate]

I don't think Mimique is a real leaker, but hey... He has Geno on his list so who am I to complain?

 

[Omega Tyrant]

I mean, in all fairness Verg hasn't known about a lot of stuff. Hasn't he only been right about Ridley and Simon Belmont? Ridley being extremely predictable and basically everyone saying Simon for a while. And to be fair, he had multiple "sources" in the past that he claimed were actually "bad sources" and he changed the leaks around multiple times. I don't see why people forget how many times Verg has been wrong in game leaks... because as of now his "right to wrong" ratio IS heavier on WRONG for multiple game leaks he has put out.

Besides calling Ridley "extremely predictable" being absurd when at least half the fanbase wrote him off as impossible, you do realize Belmont only became a common prediction after Vergeben claimed him and got attention? Most people thought any Konami character was impossible prior to him, much less thinking Belmont had a real shot.

 

[Enchess]

People keep forgetting time after time that Simon was only a safe guess AFTER Vergeben, not before. Nobody was even half-expecting Simon, don't act like it's just pure luck.

As a firm believer that Ridley was an easy guess, yeah. Simon is what made me believe Verg. It is an incredibly logical pick, but not an obvious one. I think people tend to get that confused in hindsight.
I know people will think this is hypocritical, but I predicted Ridley and definitely saw non-Verg leaks with Ridley and not Simon before E3. Like, he was literally on my E3 bingo sheet. People predicting Ridley was a minority, but not the the extent people predicting Simon before Verg was.

 

[Fell God]

I'm sorry, but no. This cycle never ends.

I was literally told a couple months ago, by a different user, "If Simon makes it in, I'll admit Verg was right all along."

Nothing has changed, and it won't with Incineroar either.

Ah, but Simon was a front runner for potential Castlevania representation. Incineroar still has two very big competitors in Decidueye and Lycanroc. Incineroar is his only unsafe guess. That's why I'll concede, and why everyone like me who doesn't believe would have to concede as well.

 

[DarkShadow20]

This whole "Simon was an easy prediction" thing is dumb. I've been speculating Smash since the pre-Melee days and I barely ever saw much support or predictions for him. Bomberman was always the more popular Konami choice. Simon never came up that often until Vergeben leaked him. It's easy to say in hindsight that he was an easy prediction, sure. But people also did the same thing with Wii Fit Trainer to try and debunk the Gematsu leak, which was just laughable.

 

[Slavic]

What makes me not care too much about leaking Ridley in terms of credibility isn't so much in the (very abstract and pointless concept of) safety of his pick, but rather that, despite word of god spoken against him, he was still pretty popular as a supported choice, at least in my circles. He's very commonly talked about, so I think a lot of fake leakers would put him in because he's a very good talking point and less so an obvious addition to the roster. Decent way to drum up publicity for your leak.

Simon, on the other hand, is a ridiculous choice for a fake leaker to put on their roster since Snake was missing prior and Bomberman was pretty popular (maybe more popular, the world will never know). I have a decent amount of faith in Verge, but it's entirely Simon-based, not Ridley-based.

all imo of course, everyone interprets these events and data in their own special ways (but mine is the special-est)

 

[Shroob]

Ah, but Simon was a front runner for potential Castlevania representation. Incineroar still has two very big competitors in Decidueye and Lycanroc. Incineroar is his only unsafe guess. That's why I'll concede, and why everyone like me who doesn't believe would have to concede as well.

I mean, no.

I'd argue that "2nd Square-Enix rep" is way more unsafe than Incineroar.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Alright alright, I can see some people are getting heated and I'll say this: if Incineroar gets in, Verg is right and you were following the right guy. If he's not in, then I'm objectively right and you all have to admit that Verg was making lucky guesses. I'd even start a thread for it.

No no no. If Incineroar is in, he MAY have had info. I will be on the side of “probably.” There is still no solid, incontrovertible evidence as with almost any leaker ever. If he’s wrong, then you could also be considered a lucky guesser, though patterns are on your side.

You wouldn’t be right because you KNOW he is wrong. You’d be right by virtue of chance same as them. In your own words “Vergeben being wrong is a safe guess and anyone could have guessed it.”

Also, to clarify, I am not in the category of “heated.” I respect you, fully and completely. I enjoy debates in a friendly atmosphere.

 

[Danpal65]

My question is where are all the big rumours with the most important character in them?

Need to see Elma in Smash! That mech Sakurai bought wasn't for nothing!

 

[Fell God]

I mean, no.

I'd argue that "2nd Square-Enix rep" is way more unsafe than Incineroar.

So you're saying he has two unsafe guesses? Again, I don't see how Incineroar wouldn't be unsafe considering Decidueye and Lycanroc are both more popular AND could bring more to the game in terms of uniqueness (in both body shape and playstyle!)

 

[KingBroly]

If you had asked before the Switch came out 'what reps would you want from Konami after Solid Snake' I imagine most would've said Simon Belmont and Bomberman.

I would've said the former was more likely since Bomberman was Hudson and not originally Konami.

 

[Slavic]

My question is where are all the big rumours with the most important character in them?

Need to see Elma in Smash! That mech Sakurai bought wasn't for nothing!

Reggie borrowed the mech in the cafeteria but never gave it back. Sakurai is still bitter about it and cut the already-completed Elma from the game.

 

[Enchess]

Ok, even as someone who now believes Verg had real info, you guys know it's also revisionism to act like nobody at all was talking about Incineroar before Verg, right? Don't get me wrong, the talk of Incineroar skyrocketed after, but it was there before, unlike Simon talk.

 

[Chrono.]

That mech Sakurai bought wasn't for nothing!

It's for the Custom Robo revival that he's starting by adding Ray NX to Smash.

 

[N3ON]

I got so many hate comments in videos for talking about Ridley and Snake lol

Yeah, you telling people they weren't widely expected? You'd really think peoples' memories would exceed the last half year. But it's a strange psychology employed to keep their narratives intact.

I honestly don't remember it being this extreme with Smash 4, but now you have people running around saying Greninja and the like were obvious, so I guess this time I'm the one with the faulty recollection.

 

[Shroob]

So you're saying he has two unsafe guesses? Again, I don't see how Incineroar wouldn't be unsafe considering Decidueye and Lycanroc are both more popular AND could bring more to the game in terms of uniqueness (in both body shape and playstyle!)

The thing about Incineroar is that people are thinking he actually 'has' to fight.


It's been pretty damn obvious from concept art alone that the Pokemon Company themselves want to push him as Ash's 'Alolan Ace' Pokemon.


Considering the Pokemon Company have such a big hand in who gets in, Incineroar's 'competition' is more or less a made up fan thing to be frank.


If we're getting a Gen7 rep, it's Incineroar due to the anime, that's my view on it.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Alright alright, I can see some people are getting heated and I'll say this: if Incineroar gets in, Verg is right and you were following the right guy. If he's not in, then I'm objectively right and you all have to admit that Verg was making lucky guesses. I'd even start a thread for it.

You wonder why people flame you and get angry at you, and here it is. This petty, elitist, "I'm right and you're wrong and I'm going to rub your face in it" mentality isn't appreciated by anyone. You can't expect a rational argument when all you do is treat the other side like it's stupid.

 

[Deleted member]

This whole "Simon was an easy prediction" thing is dumb. I've been speculating Smash since the pre-Melee days and I barely ever saw much support or predictions for him. Bomberman was always the more popular Konami choice. Simon never came up that often until Vergeben leaked him. It's easy to say in hindsight that he was an easy prediction, sure. But people also did the same thing with Wii Fit Trainer to try and debunk the Gematsu leak, which was just laughable.

I think the difference with Simon is that after Metal Gear Solid... Bayonetta, Mega Man, Street Fighter - hell, Final Fantasy, to an extent, which big third party franchise is there really left that has an impact on the gaming industry? I mean, there's a reason the term "Metroidvania" exists after all. I think after so many guests came through in the past, Castlevania just made too much sense for Ultimate this time around.

 

[Guynamednelson]

It's been pretty damn obvious from concept art alone that the Pokemon Company themselves want to push him as Ash's 'Alolan Ace' Pokemon.

Then why give Ash his own special Lycanroc?

 

[N3ON]

Alright alright, I can see some people are getting heated and I'll say this: if Incineroar gets in, Verg is right and you were following the right guy. If he's not in, then I'm objectively right and you all have to admit that Verg was making lucky guesses. I'd even start a thread for it.

Will your shoes be newly shined for when we line up to kiss them?

 

[Fell God]

Sorry but I just don't see how a text leak could be believed so doubtlessly. Screenshots are more convincing.

You wonder why people flame you and get angry at you, and here it is. This petty, elitist, "I'm right and you're wrong and I'm going to rub your face in it" mentality isn't appreciated by anyone.

It was not meant to be taken seriously, I realize tone is hard to convey on the internet but it really was just a sarcastic comment. And I never said I am 100% correct right now without any doubt, I said that I believe I am.

 

[Shroob]

Then why give Ash his own special Lycanroc?

Why give him Poipole?



Torracat's 'going' to evolve, it's a matter of 'when' is it going to evolve.

We've already seen concept art of Ash and Incineroar together, it's a matter of when it'll happen.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Then why give Ash his own special Lycanroc?

Advertise USUM?

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Sorry but I just don't see how a text leak could be believed so doubtlessly.


It was not meant to be taken seriously, I realize tone is hard to convey on the internet but it really was just a sarcastic comment. And I never said I am 100% correct right now without any doubt, I said that I believe I am.

Buddy...

 

[Polan]

i'll be too busy celebrating incineroar not getting in to bother with the flood of smug "i told you vergeben was fake" posts. tbh i fully believe vergeben but i am lowkey hoping that the gen 7 pokemon winds up being his gematsu moment. unfortunately its not looking like that is happening.

 

[Pacman High Tier]

Decidueye is by far the most popular of the Alolan starters, is the thing. That's the simpler reason why I saw him getting in over Incineroar. Plus he'd be pretty unique.

 

[Das Koopa]

Calling Simon "likely" when we had no information about the game is purely revisionist and I can link a GameFAQs poll that demonstrate prior expectations of seeing Simon as a playable character was very low. It was not a safe guess.

This same revisionism happened to Gematsu when a bulk of the characters listed in polls pre-E3 2013 did not assume the inclusion of several characters that did get in. People take Villager for granted, as an example, because he was not expected or predictable due yo his exclusion from Brawl and the developer statements behind that, and polling pre-Smash 4 backs that the community did not expect this.

 

[Shroob]

Decidueye is by far the most popular of the Alolan starters, is the thing. That's the simpler reason why I saw him getting in over Incineroar. Plus he'd be pretty unique.

But that's 100% wrong.

Rowlet and Primarina are in the top 10 of the starters yes, but Decidueye isn't.

 

[Fell God]

Will your shoes be newly shined for when we line up to kiss them?

Please do not take such things seriously, who in their right mind would not be joking while saying that? I'm really not the kind to rub it in.

 

[?????????????]

Decidueye is by far the most popular of the Alolan starters, is the thing. That's the simpler reason why I saw him getting in over Incineroar. Plus he'd be pretty unique.

I hate to be the "well actually" guy, but.......

Decidueye was the least popular of the Alolan final evolutions in the popularity poll.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Decidueye is by far the most popular of the Alolan starters, is the thing. That's the simpler reason why I saw him getting in over Incineroar. Plus he'd be pretty unique.

You can't take popularity of pokemon into account when they were decided to be in before they were even revealed publicly.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I really do think at this point Incineroar is the Gen 7 Pokemon were getting.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I've been saying it would be Incineroar for months and I always just got jumped on.

And I am not a fan of Incineroar. Would rather have any other pokemon. Almost

I guess people just had to accept it

 

[Jetsurge]

Decidueye is by far the most popular of the Alolan starters, is the thing. That's the simpler reason why I saw him getting in over Incineroar. Plus he'd be pretty unique.

The Pokemon Company don't push Decidueye at all though

 

[Shroob]

What surprises me the most about that leak is that we'd be getting two brand new characters, and 0 Echo fighters.


There are obviously still more echoes to be revealed, I think this is a VERY safe assumption, so when will we get them is the question?

 

[Radical Bones]

I hate to be the "well actually" guy, but.......

Decidueye was the least popular of the Alolan final evolutions in the popularity poll.

In Japan, the most popular Pokemon poll for USUM went:

1. Rowlet
2. Mimikyu
3. Primarina

Soooo...

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I really hope Dixie gets in as an echo. I don't care about ANY other echo, unless somehow Tom Nook gets in.

 

[Slavic]

I really have grown attached to the idea of Incineroar now (even tho he's my least favorite of the three Alolan starters) because I find playing as the Pokemon... kind of boring in Smash. They're basically animals, so most of their personality isn't really anything special at all. Pikachu, Mewtwo, and Jigglypuff were toned way down from their iconic personalities, Lucario is fine I suppose, and Pichu's the only one that really feels like a character and not just a Pokemon to me. Incineroar is based heavily off a wrestling personality, it would be so hard not to give him a fun to play as personality, and that's why I am all for his inclusion.

 

[Fell God]

Look, no one is going to convince anyone of anything with what we have right now. Best we can do is agree to disagree and wait until one side is proven right. As much as I'd love to continue this discussion, it's pretty late for me and I would like to sleep. And again, don't take everything I say so seriously haha, I like to joke around a bit, that's all. Goodnight, and I hope we can be on friendly terms in the future.

 

[Jetsurge]

Except 2019 to be the year of Incineroar with him in Smash and Ash's Torracat evolving in the anime for the final season of Sun and Moon.