Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[AwesomeAussie27]

The winner was Decidueye, and the other starters didn't do too bad either. Thing is, I did notice that more seem to be as vocal about Primarina as Incineroar. And Crabrawler, expect it to evolve into a Crabominable later due to loss.

Next up are more Gen 7 Pokemon, half of these are mysticals for obvious reasons and a certain Pikachu lookalike. Your picks are Magearna, Tapu Koko, Mimikyu, and Lycanroc.

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And begin.

 

[N3ON]

I don't want to start ****, and maybe this is me being oblivious, but it seems to me that the main instances of Incineroar's popularity stem from a few Incineroar fans saying how popular Incineroar is.

He doesn't seem an unpopular starter, like some before him, but the heights of his popularity has always seemed like intermittent conjecture more than empirical.

Again, maybe I'm out of the loop.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Pokemon is always a strange one. Nintendo doesn't have as much direct control over it as most other series under their banner. Frankly a part of me is surprised that Pikachu and Jigglypuff were allowed in Smash 64. Chances are they wouldn't do that if Smash was being made today.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Pokemon is always a strange one. Nintendo doesn't have as much direct control over it as most other series under their banner. Frankly a part of me is surprised that Pikachu and Jigglypuff were allowed in Smash 64. Chances are they wouldn't do that if Smash was being made today.

Jigglypuff could've gone either way, but PIikachu's the mascot of the series. It would've been in if they had a Pokemon playable option as is. The anime also helped, and it's no surprise why Sakurai looks towards it(in fact, the Anime has appeared in some areas of the world before the games, which is part of why using the anime to help determine characters actually makes it appeal better to the whole world. They're more recognizable easily).

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Jigglypuff could've gone either way, but PIikachu's the mascot of the series. It would've been in if they had a Pokemon playable option as is. The anime also helped, and it's no surprise why Sakurai looks towards it(in fact, the Anime has appeared in some areas of the world before the games, which is part of why using the anime to help determine characters actually makes it appeal better to the whole world. They're more recognizable easily).

I was meaning more the fact that Game Freak let them.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I was meaning more the fact that Game Freak let them.

Same point overall. Pikachu's the mascot. It's the most important to push. However, they have clearly shown trust in Sakurai too, as he has had the decision for the Pokemon in general.

That said, it's hard to say. I think the actual Pokemon playable list would easily change, but it would be clearly who they wanted to push way more than just what Sakurai wants. So PIkachu, Charizard, Lucario, and maybe Mewtwo(considering how they weren't pushing Sakurai to have it on the base roster even in Brawl, and even noted that it was up to Sakurai to worry about Mewtwo, it's not hard to believe it's not nearly as important to them as to fans overall). Any others could've been pushed, though. Zoroark, maybe?

 

[Opossum]

Same point overall. Pikachu's the mascot. It's the most important to push. However, they have clearly shown trust in Sakurai too, as he has had the decision for the Pokemon in general.

That said, it's hard to say. I think the actual Pokemon playable list would easily change, but it would be clearly who they wanted to push way more than just what Sakurai wants. So PIkachu, Charizard, Lucario, and maybe Mewtwo(considering how they weren't pushing Sakurai to have it on the base roster even in Brawl, and even noted that it was up to Sakurai to worry about Mewtwo, it's not hard to believe it's not nearly as important to them as to fans overall). Any others could've been pushed, though. Zoroark, maybe?

I think the point they were getting at is that Pokémon might not have made it into the game at all. The Pokémon Company's grip on the IP has only gotten stronger the bigger the franchise has gotten, and they allowed Pikachu and Jigglypuff into Smash 64 when the series was still relatively young. Smash then become a huge success and they without a doubt knew Sakurai had the series in capable hands, but if the first Smash game were made today, I think they'd be less inclined to take that risk in the first place.

 

[N3ON]

I think the point being made is considering how restrictive and protective GF is with the IP, it's a small wonder Pokemon at all were included in Smash's first outing. Edit: yeah, as Opossum said.

It's a point I've thought about before as well. For a while it seemed like, outside Smash, Pokemon was a "Nintendo franchise" in name only, they would rarely if ever cross over. Things seem to be a bit more lenient as of late, but for a while, the overlap was seemingly relegated solely to Smash. Though I'm probably forgetting something.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

With all this Pokémon talk and in celebration of Pokémon Day - wanted to share my ballot vote and my guess for a Pokémon Newcomer.

Ditto - Replaces the Random Slot. Has a unique opening where he transforms into a random character and his own victory sequence. This was my ballot pick because it creates a character for the random slot without much work (also I think it would be neat if you were able to toggle the ability to change to another random character after losing a stock and respawning)

Decidueye - My guess for most likely newcomer. Represents the grass starter we lost in Ivysaur (...RIP) and the current generation. Seemed to be one of the more popular starters after reveal and Ash has one so it ties to the anime. Decidueye would be a unique new addition to Smash and among the Pokémon reps.

...Ash has a Rowlet, not Decidueye

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Why do people like Lucario like so much? Did I ask this already?

 

[Bowserlick]

Pokemon Trainer should be a Mii class.

 

[Opossum]

Why do people like Lucario like so much? Did I ask this already?

You actually did ask it before, haha. I'll just repeat what my reasons were.

I think the aura theming and Anubis motif are cool, and he put in a ton of work in my playthroughs of Black 2 and Y.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I think the point they were getting at is that Pokémon might not have made it into the game at all. The Pokémon Company's grip on the IP has only gotten stronger the bigger the franchise has gotten, and they allowed Pikachu and Jigglypuff into Smash 64 when the series was still relatively young. Smash then become a huge success and they without a doubt knew Sakurai had the series in capable hands, but if the first Smash game were made today, I think they'd be less inclined to take that risk in the first place.

True. Though if they did, it's the big guns as I noted before. It's hard to say, though.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Pokemon Trainer should be a Mii class.

This would've been interesting to see. What kinds of Pokemon would be used with this?

 

[Krysco]

Does anyone know who exactly is in charge of deciding which Pokemon get spotlight attention in the anime, be it a part of the protagonists main party, a significant role in a movie or an arc in the anime focused on them? Is it entirely the decision of the anime creators or TPC/GF or a mix of both? Wondering since anime appearance seems to play a large role in Pokemon getting into Smash as playable characters. Pikachu being the main Pokemon, Jigglypuff being reoccurring back in Kanto and more recently too apparently, Mewtwo getting a movie and whatever Mewtwo Returns is considered, Lucario also got a movie, Charizard was the only Kanto starter to evolve for Ash and I'm pretty sure it got the most screen time of the 3 too. Greninja is/was a part of Ash's team too but I think that was after Sm4sh came out? Heck, Ash had a Squirtle too leaving Ivysaur as the only odd one out.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Just have a custom move that throws a Pokéball. It would be broken as ****, but so what?

Does anyone know who exactly is in charge of deciding which Pokemon get spotlight attention in the anime, be it a part of the protagonists main party, a significant role in a movie or an arc in the anime focused on them? Is it entirely the decision of the anime creators or TPC/GF or a mix of both? Wondering since anime appearance seems to play a large role in Pokemon getting into Smash as playable characters. Pikachu being the main Pokemon, Jigglypuff being reoccurring back in Kanto and more recently too apparently, Mewtwo getting a movie and whatever Mewtwo Returns is considered, Lucario also got a movie, Charizard was the only Kanto starter to evolve for Ash and I'm pretty sure it got the most screen time of the 3 too. Greninja is/was a part of Ash's team too but I think that was after Sm4sh came out? Heck, Ash had a Squirtle too leaving Ivysaur as the only odd one out.

Ash had that annoying Treeko, however you spell that.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Does anyone know who exactly is in charge of deciding which Pokemon get spotlight attention in the anime, be it a part of the protagonists main party, a significant role in a movie or an arc in the anime focused on them? Is it entirely the decision of the anime creators or TPC/GF or a mix of both? Wondering since anime appearance seems to play a large role in Pokemon getting into Smash as playable characters. Pikachu being the main Pokemon, Jigglypuff being reoccurring back in Kanto and more recently too apparently, Mewtwo getting a movie and whatever Mewtwo Returns is considered, Lucario also got a movie, Charizard was the only Kanto starter to evolve for Ash and I'm pretty sure it got the most screen time of the 3 too. Greninja is/was a part of Ash's team too but I think that was after Sm4sh came out? Heck, Ash had a Squirtle too leaving Ivysaur as the only odd one out.

It's Sakurai. At least according to Nintendo, Gamefreak, The Pokemon Company, and himself.

I mean, the exact choices do mirror Ash's team to a degree, but honestly, besides Charizrard, the rest isn't that obvious. Squirtle is a bit more popular, and oddly enough, only Bulbasaur nearly evolved between the two. It's a coincidence though.

That said, Greninja was chosen well before the anime went that route(though it's possible the ones behind the anime knew about Greninja being chosen and wanted to push it via the anime? I dunno). I think Greninja was already an active team member in Japan before the official Smash reveal, but even then, they'd have had to plan out the story pretty far in advance. Either they already knew about the Smash choice due to communication or it's just a coincidence.

Also, the one you didn't mention, Pichu, is an interesting case. While he was chosen as an easy clone, the fact he had a popular movie was a notable thing in itself(I think only one at the time, though? I forget if he had 1 or 2 before Melee). But just like Greninja, it was not noted as being influenced by the anime(though it did have some popularity, like with the Pichu Bros., which is part of why it was a decent choice for a clone besides the other 5 for their own reasons, respectively).

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Greninja is cool as ****. He didn't need another reason.

 

[N3ON]

Does anyone know who exactly is in charge of deciding which Pokemon get spotlight attention in the anime, be it a part of the protagonists main party, a significant role in a movie or an arc in the anime focused on them? Is it entirely the decision of the anime creators or TPC/GF or a mix of both? Wondering since anime appearance seems to play a large role in Pokemon getting into Smash as playable characters. Pikachu being the main Pokemon, Jigglypuff being reoccurring back in Kanto and more recently too apparently, Mewtwo getting a movie and whatever Mewtwo Returns is considered, Lucario also got a movie, Charizard was the only Kanto starter to evolve for Ash and I'm pretty sure it got the most screen time of the 3 too. Greninja is/was a part of Ash's team too but I think that was after Sm4sh came out? Heck, Ash had a Squirtle too leaving Ivysaur as the only odd one out.

It has to be a joint decision, like you said, but I'd speculate TPC/GF has a much bigger say. The starters are always going to get a push (I would assume a disproportionate amount of attention and care is put into those lines in development), and I would assume the rest comes from market research and focus groups.

It's Sakurai. At least according to Nintendo, Gamefreak, The Pokemon Company, and himself.

I mean, the exact choices do mirror Ash's team to a degree, but honestly, besides Charizrard, the rest isn't that obvious. Squirtle is a bit more popular, and oddly enough, only Bulbasaur nearly evolved between the two. It's a coincidence though.

That said, Greninja was chosen well before the anime went that route(though it's possible the ones behind the anime knew about Greninja being chosen and wanted to push it via the anime? I dunno). I think Greninja was already an active team member in Japan before the official Smash reveal, but even then, they'd have had to plan out the story pretty far in advance. Either they already knew about the Smash choice due to communication or it's just a coincidence.

Also, the one you didn't mention, Pichu, is an interesting case. While he was chosen as an easy clone, the fact he had a popular movie was a notable thing in itself(I think only one at the time, though? I forget if he had 1 or 2 before Melee). But just like Greninja, it was not noted as being influenced by the anime(though it did have some popularity, like with the Pichu Bros., which is part of why it was a decent choice for a clone besides the other 5 for their own reasons, respectively).

Why would Sakurai have a role in choosing what happens in the anime?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Greninja is cool as ****. He didn't need another reason.

That's literally why Sakurai picked him, actually

 

[N3ON]

All Lucario needed was a name and a design to get popular. People liked him from the moment he was revealed. Though some did think he was a legendary. Cuz normies don't get movies.

So yeah, sometimes that's all it takes to get popular.

 

[Luminario]

Does anyone know who exactly is in charge of deciding which Pokemon get spotlight attention in the anime, be it a part of the protagonists main party, a significant role in a movie or an arc in the anime focused on them? Is it entirely the decision of the anime creators or TPC/GF or a mix of both? Wondering since anime appearance seems to play a large role in Pokemon getting into Smash as playable characters. Pikachu being the main Pokemon, Jigglypuff being reoccurring back in Kanto and more recently too apparently, Mewtwo getting a movie and whatever Mewtwo Returns is considered, Lucario also got a movie, Charizard was the only Kanto starter to evolve for Ash and I'm pretty sure it got the most screen time of the 3 too. Greninja is/was a part of Ash's team too but I think that was after Sm4sh came out? Heck, Ash had a Squirtle too leaving Ivysaur as the only odd one out.

I'm pretty sure it's a mix of public opinions and TPC's choice of who to push, though Greninja being the pushed Gen 6 Poke was probably due to Sakurai choosing it for Smash. I've said it before on here but if Greninja wasn't chosen for Smash we would have likely seen someone like Sylveon being the most pushed of Gen 6. Greninja completely stole the thunder of Fairy type's reveal.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Why would Sakurai have a role in choosing what happens in the anime?

That had absolutely nothing to do with what I said. What I said was that the knowledge of Sakurai choosing Greninja may have influenced the way they wrote XY's anime story, since it was something they thought about promoting. I forget if Gamefreak itself is even behind the anime, but considering they trust in Sakurai alone, it wouldn't be that surprising if the fact he chose the ninja frog gave them the idea that this might be worth promoting simply due to this fact.

But to be frank, I think it's just a pure coincidence. And what happened didn't influence their story decisions at all.

Or more or less what Luminario said.

 

[Deleted member]

Depression has won the battle for today.

Y'all better not be dissing Samurott. It's a samurai otter with a shell helmet. What could be better?

Then again it wouldn't even have a shot until a hypothetical Unova remake.

Ivysaur is better. Samurott is ugly, there are better samurais out there.

Think wisely, Opo.

Welp, it begins
View attachment 137669
(Y'all know Decidueye's the best choice)

I agree. I love that poster, especially when you put Decidueye as Captain America, since....

Spoiler: Avengers Spoilers

he won against Iron Man. Iron Man is portrayed as Incineroar so...

You are a clever one.

Decidueye is easily my #1 choice for a pokemon in Smash for Switch. A mysterious leaf owl archer is cool and creative to add in Smash for Switch, same with a fire wrestling cat in Smash for Switch.

 

[Opossum]

That had absolutely nothing to do with what I said. What I said was that the knowledge of Sakurai choosing Greninja may have influenced the way they wrote XY's anime story, since it was something they thought about promoting. I forget if Gamefreak itself is even behind the anime, but considering they trust in Sakurai alone, it wouldn't be that surprising if the fact he chose the ninja frog gave them the idea that this might be worth promoting simply due to this fact.

But to be frank, I think it's just a pure coincidence. And what happened didn't influence their story decisions at all.

Or more or less what Luminario said.

No, you answered a question that wasn't being asked.

Read it again. They wanted to know who was in charge of deciding which Pokémon get promoted in the anime.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

No, you answered a question that wasn't being asked.

Read it again. They wanted to know who was in charge of deciding which Pokémon get promoted in the anime.

Then I misread. Whoops.

 

[Bowserlick]

This would've been interesting to see. What kinds of Pokemon would be used with this?

I was thinking more along the lines of riding a bicycle, throwing a pokeball and using pokemon for TM's such as Fly, Cut, ect.
I think all the Mii's should have all the same A movesets and just change specials.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I was thinking more along the lines of riding a bicycle, throwing a pokeball and using pokemon for TM's such as Fly, Cut, ect.
I think all the Mii's should have all the same A movesets and just change specials.

I feel like it could be fun to have 3 unique Trainer classes, based upon the proper Swordfighter/Brawler/Gunner. Although Gunner doesn't have some easy options, the other 2 do. Fishing Rod for Swordfighter, and there's literal fighting-based Pokemon Classes that could work. If doing Pokemon summons, they could match the class well. Like Scyther and Gallade could appear for Swordfighter for some moves, and Machamp(or Machoke) and Hitmonchan for Brawler. Oddly enough, there's more Pokemon that would fit Gunner(Remoraid, Octillery, maybe something using Solar Beam for the Final Smash? I can't think of something that's kind of gun-like for Grass Pokemon at the moment. I know there's other water moves like Bubble Beam or Zap Cannon. Plus there's things like Bullet Seed that could work).

 

[PsychoJosh]

Why do people like Lucario like so much? Did I ask this already?

You already know the real answer is furries. Same reason why Wolf is so popular.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

You already know the real answer is furries. Same reason why Wolf is so popular.

If this is a serious point, I'm gonna ask that we shut this down ASAP. Lucario wouldn't get THAT popular due to fetishes. Same with Wolf. Can't believe I just typed that sentence.

If a joke, lol carry on.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If this is a serious point, I'm gonna ask that we shut this down ASAP. Lucario wouldn't get THAT popular due to fetishes. Same with Wolf. Can't believe I just typed that sentence.

If a joke, lol carry on.

On the other hand, this is definitely true for Krystal and especially Gardevoir. Not the only reason they're popular, of course.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

On the other hand, this is definitely true for Krystal and especially Gardevoir. Not the only reason they're popular, of course.

...

You know most furries are gay men right? Like, that's not even me making **** up. That's a statistic.

Regardless, it seems hypocritical to attribute the masculine characters popularity to their own merit but not the feminine ones.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

You know most furries are gay men right? Like, that's not even me making **** up. That's a statistic.

Lol

Okay, but seriously, I hate Lucario's design.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Okay, but seriously, I hate Lucario's design.

May I ask why?

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

He has a big dumb head with bad raccoon makeup, the metal spikes are stupid, and I think fighting pokemon moves are the laest interesting for smash.

 

[IanTheGamer]

I wonder if we will get transforming characters and the Ice Climbers as well as Pokemon Trainer back, being that there is no 3DS version to hold Smash back this time. I also wonder if the Smash 4 Fighter Ballot will have any effect on Newcomers

 

[N3ON]

The only character worthy of support solely for being a paragon of beauty is Hot Ryu and you all know it.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

...

You know most furries are gay men right? Like, that's not even me making **** up. That's a statistic.

Regardless, it seems hypocritical to attribute the masculine characters popularity to their own merit but not the feminine ones.

I wasn't even thinking about about masculine or feminine stuff, just what was vastly more popular for characterization and such. So I'm not being a hypocrite whatsoever(I"d admit it if I was).

Anyway, I didn't know the other thing that much. Huh. Well, apologies for making a fool of myself. Didn't mean to offend anyone.

To say the least, I'm dropping the discussion since it could go bad places.

 

[Krysco]

As one of them, I'd just like to clarify that there is different kinds of furries. The ones that like them sexually, the ones that like their design flat out and the ones that dress up in the costumes along with any combination of those. I don't view Wolf sexually but I do like his design and that he's a wolf. And I used to be a big Krystal supporter and I still support her inclusion a bit. Means more 'content' to enjoy if nothing else. And while the majority are gay, that doesn't mean they all are. Anyways! People tend to not like that topic so carry on with whatever~

 

[IanTheGamer]

Can we please not argue about furries, this is supposed to be a Smash speculation forum where things are kept civil. If you wanna argue about that go to 4chan. Now can we please get back to Smash Switch speculation. Thanks