Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Opossum]

Gonna play Devil's Advocate here for the sake of discussion but isn't Bandana Dee hardly any different? He's literally just like any other of his species but he's got a pathetically easy 'boss fight', some minor dialogue in Meta Knight's Revenge and I can't even call him unique for being playable since Superstar allows many enemies to become playable, including Knuckle Joe. Oh, and he wears an extra piece of attire that others of his kind don't.

Having an identity helps a lot in these cases. Plus Dee is shown to be on par with (or closer to, anyway) the main three in importance, while Joe is literally a generic enemy.

That and doesn't Kirby's Smash moveset take a lot from Fighter Kirby/Knuckle Joe anyway?

 

[Krysco]

Bandana Dee is playable in games without the Helper gimmick though, like Return to Dream Land. I think he was around in Rainbow Curse too.

True and he canonically (for whatever worth canon is in Kirby) does help Kirby since he actually appears in cutscenes with Kirby in RtDL and consistently appears in TD and PR to give Kirby healing items.

That being said, he's still just a Waddle Dee just as Knuckle Joe is...well just a Knuckle Joe. Would kinda be like if Goombario or Goombella became playable characters though at least they have personalities to differentiate them from standard Goombas.

Opossum tagging since I'm already part way through this post when you replied and too lazy to add the quote but also good points. Granted, I find with Knuckle Joe and especially Lyn that they mostly get requested for being playable in Smash because they're assist trophies. If another generic Kirby enemy or another FE lord was an assist trophy, I have the feeling they'd be the ones more often requested for Smash rather than Knuckle Joe or Lyn.

I would make the same argument for Toad and Captain Toad that I did for Bandana Dee but those two are a really weird case, especially the former. There's straight up a character just named 'Toad' that is a Toad. From the spinoff games like Mario Party and some of the sports games to my current most recent recollection, in Paper Mario Color Splash, Peach refers to the Toad that's with her and Mario by just Toad, implying that's his name despite looking just like all the others of his kind.

 

[IanTheGamer]

Krystal definitely has a chance of making it in this time, she's been a popular request twice in the past, Has a unique fun moveset potential, and was considered for Brawl

 

[Deleted member]

Krystal definitely has a chance of making it in this time, she's been a popular request twice in the past, Has a unique fun moveset potential, and was considered for Brawl

You're forgetting that she hasn't been in a game since 2006.
That's a pretty big factor that could prevent her from making it in.

 

[IanTheGamer]

You're forgetting that she hasn't been in a game since 2006.
That's a pretty big factor that could prevent her from making it in.

Little Mac wasn't in a game since the 80s before Brawl came out, and Captain Falcon hasn't been in a F-Zero game since 2003, or what about Mewtwo for that matter, and what about Geno who was supposed to be in Brawl?

 

[Deleted member]

Little Mac wasn't in a game since the 80s before Brawl came out, and Captain Falcon hasn't been in a main series F-Zero game since 2003.

Little Mac wasn't in Brawl, he was in Sm4sh. And you know what came out 3 years before the Sm4sh roster was finalized?

And Captain Falcon is a veteran so it's a different story with him.
Edit:

what about Mewtwo for that matter, and what about Geno who was supposed to be in Brawl?

Lmao what? You're actually bringing up Mewtwo, who literally got not one, but two new forms in Pokemon X and Y? You're grasping at straws.
You need a source on that Geno statement.

 

[IanTheGamer]

Little Mac wasn't in Brawl, he was in Sm4sh. And you know what came out 3 years before the Sm4sh roster was finalized?

And Captain Falcon is a veteran so it's a different story with him.

Oh yeah, right. My apologies there. But what about Pit in Brawl, there wasn't a Kid Icarus game since 1991 at the time Brawl was in development

 

[Deleted member]

Oh yeah, right. My apologies there. But what about Pit in Brawl, there wasn't a Kid Icarus game since 1991 at the time Brawl was in development

Retro characters are a different story.
And no, Krystal doesn't qualify as one.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Krystal definitely has a chance of making it in this time, she's been a popular request twice in the past, Has a unique fun moveset potential, and was considered for Brawl

She has less of a chance than ever. Nobody cares if she's requested and her move set "potential" is one of her biggest issues. Nobody is going to want a Star Fox Adventures representative in the form of a character who is no longer a part of the franchise.

Little Mac wasn't in a game since the 80s before Brawl came out, and Captain Falcon hasn't been in a F-Zero game since 2003, or what about Mewtwo for that matter, and what about Geno who was supposed to be in Brawl?

Is this an alternate N3ON account or something?

So Little Mac actually appeared on Wii in 2009, and even if he didn't, he'd be a retro character. Captain Falcon is a three time veteran and the star of a series that was prominent from Smash 64 to Brawl. Mewtwo was in every Pokemon game since Red & Blue with the exception of Black & White, appeared in Melee, and is one of the most popular Pokemon ever.. And Geno was NOT supposed to be in Brawl. He was considered briefly because he was requested. That doesn't he was SUPPOSED to be in Brawl. So yeah. One of these characters is not like the other.

You're gonna have a hard time convincing people you're not totally biased about Krystal when she's your profile picture.

Oh, and F-Zero Climax was 2004.

 

[IanTheGamer]

She has less of a chance than ever. Nobody cares if she's requested and her move set "potential" is one of her biggest issues. Nobody is going to want a Star Fox Adventures representative in the form of a character who is no longer a part of the franchise.



Is this an alternate N3ON account or something?

So Little Mac actually appeared on Wii in 2009, and even if he didn't, he'd be a retro character. Captain Falcon is a three time veteran and the star of a series that was prominent from Smash 64 to Brawl. Mewtwo was in every Pokemon game since Red & Blue with the exception of Black & White. And Geno was NOT supposed to be in Brawl. He was considered breifly beccause he was requested. That doesn't he was SUPPOSED to be in Brawl. So yeah. One of these characters is not like the other.

You're gonna have a hard time convincing people you're not totally biased about Krystal when she's your profile picture.

Oh, and F-Zero Climax was 2004.

True, I do support her, but maybe I should change my profile picture, and Krystal wasn't retconned from the franchise. Adventures and Assault are still technically canon, they just take place in a different timeline than Zero. Until Shigeru and Platinum explicitly say they aren't canon, they are canon. nd Geno WAS found in Brawl's files, IIRC.

Edit: Geno wasn't, nevermind

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

True and he canonically (for whatever worth canon is in Kirby) does help Kirby since he actually appears in cutscenes with Kirby in RtDL and consistently appears in TD and PR to give Kirby healing items.

That being said, he's still just a Waddle Dee just as Knuckle Joe is...well just a Knuckle Joe. Would kinda be like if Goombario or Goombella became playable characters though at least they have personalities to differentiate them from standard Goombas.

To further prove that Bandane Dee is important for Kirby, he's the only one outside of the main three (Kirby, MK, D3) to have its own amiibo. Generic enemy or not, that's a degree of recognition no other Kirby enemy can brag about having.

However, I do agree it would be the equivalent of asking for Goombario/Goombella or, for the sake of revelance, Captain Toad since he's basically just a Toad with a backpack. Especially since Captain Toad also has the same case of having his own amiibo (though a regular Toad also has its own amiibo, so they purposefully made the Cap stand out...)

 

[Deleted member]

To further prove that Bandane Dee is important for Kirby, he's the only one outside of the main three (Kirby, MK, D3) to have its own amiibo. Generic enemy or not, that's a degree of recognition no other Kirby enemy can brag about having.

That's not Bandana Dee.
That's a just generic Waddle Dee.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

That's not Bandana Dee.
That's a just generic Waddle Dee.

-Googles-

... Goddammit... Thanks for correcting me though.

 

[Krysco]

To further prove that Bandane Dee is important for Kirby, he's the only one outside of the main three (Kirby, MK, D3) to have its own amiibo. Generic enemy or not, that's a degree of recognition no other Kirby enemy can brag about having.

However, I do agree it would be the equivalent of asking for Goombario/Goombella or, for the sake of revelance, Captain Toad since he's basically just a Toad with a backpack. Especially since Captain Toad also has the same case of having his own amiibo (though a regular Toad also has its own amiibo, so they purposefully made the Cap stand out...)

No other Kirby enemy can make that claim but a number of Mario ones can (Goomba, Koopa, Boo) and a Zelda one can (Bokoblin) and...actually, I have every Kirby amiibo I think. The Waddle Dee one lacks a bandana. Unless another one came out? I hope not...I don't wanna have to go looking for it. Aaaaand before I post this, it gets answered.

 

[Bowserlick]

Bandana Dee throws spears. Spears stick out of the struck enemy. Three spears in an enemy slows them down to a degree. A fourth spear would knock the rest off. Spears eventually fall off on their own.

This way an enemy is forced to close in on Dee or face a barrage of spears. And a slower opponent allows Dee to take the initiative and approach for the beating.

 

[IanTheGamer]

Banadana Dee in Smash, oh please? Why not make the Hammer Bros playable for god sakes. If a character isn't either One of the Main characters, an important secondary character, a rival to the main protagnonist, or the main villain, they shouldn't be in Smash

 

[Deleted member]

Waddle Dee in Smash, oh please? Why not make the Hammer Bros playable for god sakes

Bandana Dee. He's not a generic Waddle Dee. Do your research.

 

[IanTheGamer]

Bandana Dee. He's not a generic Waddle Dee. Do your research.

My apologies, I made the correction

 

[Deleted member]

My apologies, I made the correction

Banadana Dee in Smash, oh please? Why not make the Hammer Bros playable for god sakes. If a character isn't either One of the Main characters, an important secondary character, a rival to the main protagnonist, or the main villain, they shouldn't be in Smash

He is an important secondary character. He's the fourth playable character in Return to Dreamland, and he was Kirby's sidekick in that recent Kirby fighting game.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Banadana Dee in Smash, oh please? Why not make the Hammer Bros playable for god sakes. If a character isn't either One of the Main characters, an important secondary character, a rival to the main protagnonist, or the main villain, they shouldn't be in Smash

Bandana Dee has had some pretty important roles.

• Playable in Return to Dream Land and is pretty prominent in cutscenes, making him a main character
• Playable in Rainbow Curse and has an important role in the final battle, giving him the "important secondary" role
• Battle Royale, if you count it, also gives him a lot of important in its story, thus giving him the "important secondary" role once again

 

[IanTheGamer]

Bandana Dee has had some pretty important roles.

• Playable in Return to Dream Land and is pretty prominent in cutscenes, making him a main character
• Playable in Rainbow Curse and has an important role in the final battle, giving him the "important secondary" role
• Battle Royale, if you count it, also gives him a lot of important in its story, thus giving him the "important secondary" role once again

Okay, I can see how he's important enough to warrant a spot in Smash Bros. But I still can't say he's in my top ten most wanted

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I see.

Also, considering your logic, I think Wii Fit Trainer, Duck Hunt Dog, Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B. and most Pokemon would like to have a word with you.

 

[IanTheGamer]

Also, considering your logic, I think Wii Fit Trainer, Duck Hunt Dog, Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B. and most Pokemon would like to have a word with you.

Okay, I admit that was very wrong, but I do fail to see how relevant Mr. Game and Watch is. I know the Game and Watch line is important to Nintendo's history, as is R.O.B, but I don't see why they had to be playable, same with Duck Hunt. Wii Fit Trainer however, I am not gonna get into.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Okay, I admit that was very wrong, but I do fail to see how relevant Mr. Game and Watch is.

He wasn't even a character before Melee. He's literally an OC.

Not a protagonist, not an important secondary, not an antagonist... I think you get the point.

He's just this entity that was created for the sake of creating a moveset based on the consoles.

 

[Krysco]

Gonna admit, I've purposely avoided dabbling in modern Kirby spinoffs since I like Kirby for its main gameplay (favourite game series of mine actually) so anything from Canvas Curse onwards that's from a spinoff is actually unknown to me (and to clarify, the most recent spinoff of Kirby's that I've played is Air Ride). Unless you count Epic Yarn as a spinoff. I just consider it a 'sequel' to Dreamland 1 since Kirby also couldn't copy abilities in that game...though he could at least fly.

Point is, I'm quite glad to see stuff from modern spinoffs actually having some relevance.

 

[IanTheGamer]

He wasn't even a character before Melee. He's literally an OC.

Not a protagonist, not an important secondary, not an antagonist, not a rival. He's just this entity that was created for the sake of creating a moveset based on the consoles.

I do believe that Mr. Game and Watch was used in the actual Game and Watch line though

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I do believe that Mr. Game and Watch was used in the actual Game and Watch line though

Not really. Unless specified, the characters in Game & Watch games have no identity. And those who do are characters of other franchises, like Donkey Kong.

 

[Cosmic77]

Bandana Dee has had some pretty important roles.

• Playable in Return to Dream Land and is pretty prominent in cutscenes, making him a main character
• Playable in Rainbow Curse and has an important role in the final battle, giving him the "important secondary" role
• Battle Royale, if you count it, also gives him a lot of important in its story, thus giving him the "important secondary" role once again

Not sure how important of a role this is, but Bandana Dee was also present in Triple Deluxe and Robobot. He would occasionally appear in levels to throw food and keychains/stickers to Kirby. If Streetpass was activated, he'd throw better items and appear more often.

Okay, I admit that was very wrong, but I do fail to see how relevant Mr. Game and Watch is. I know the Game and Watch line is important to Nintendo's history, as is R.O.B, but I don't see why they had to be playable, same with Duck Hunt. Wii Fit Trainer however, I am not gonna get into.

You just explained why they deserved to be playable. They were an important part of Nintendo's history.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Galacta Knight is boring to me. Just Meta Knight all over again. I much rather Knuckle Joe if not Bandana Dee. Why am I even commenting on this again?

Ghirahim for Smash.

I'm calling the FBI. Not only are you comparing a generic mook to an important character, you're acting like Galacta Knight doesn't do a **** ton of stuff Meta Knight can't do in Kirby, let alone in Smash. Shield beams, fire walls, lasers, lance projectiles, etc.

 

[Opossum]

I do believe that Mr. Game and Watch was used in the actual Game and Watch line though

He's...in a weird spot. Basically they were a bunch of nameless, faceless people, but Sakurai just made an amalgamation of them all and called them Mr. Game and Watch. So while the basis of the fighter existed, on a technical level the identity of Mr. Game and Watch didn't exist until Melee.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Not sure how important of a role this is, but Bandana Dee was also present in Triple Deluxe and Robobot. He would occasionally appear in levels to throw food and keychains/stickers to Kirby. If Streetpass was activated, he'd throw better items and appear more often.

I didn't bring it up because it's basically a cameo/very minor role.

Adeleine had the same role in 64, but she at least had a boss battle and showed up in cutscenes, so she had plot relevance from those.

 

[IanTheGamer]

You just explained why they deserved to be playable. They were an important part of Nintendo's history.

I see what you mean, but then again, using that logic, the Nintendo 64 logo should be playable

 

[Deleted member]

Sakurai picks characters for their unique abilities. There are no "deserving" characters, it's an arbitrary term made up by fans.

 

[IanTheGamer]

Sakurai picks characters for their unique abilities. There's no "deserving" character, it's an arbitrary term made up by fans.

Okay, I am well aware of that

 

[Cosmic77]

I see what you mean, but then again, using that logic, the Nintendo 64 logo should be playable

If Sakurai could make a moveset for it, why not?

 

[Deleted member]

Okay, I am well aware of that

Then why are we having this discussion...?

 

[Chandeelure]

Banadana Dee in Smash, oh please? Why not make the Hammer Bros playable for god sakes. If a character isn't either One of the Main characters, an important secondary character, a rival to the main protagnonist, or the main villain, they shouldn't be in Smash

Excuse me?

Okay, I admit that was very wrong.

Oh, OK.

 

[IanTheGamer]

Then why are we having this discussion...?

Because, I honestly don't even know. Well let's just pretend to forget this happened. Moving on, I still have no idea why people keep wanting Goku or Shrek in Smash, it's never EVER gonna happen. Look I personally would want Darth Vader or Iron Man, if they were eligible, but they aren't.

 

[Krysco]

Cutie Gwen Does GK fire shield beams? I don't recall from any of his 3 fights. And a lot of his attacks in Kirby are borrowed from MK, just beefed up in speed, power, range etc.

And The Stoopid Unikorn Bandana Dee had a boss fight too in Superstar! Video was posted last time he was brought up, best boss fight ever~

Come to think of it, it probably doesn't matter and won't ever be addressed by Nintendo or HAL or whoever works on Kirby nowadays but I wonder if the Waddle Dee from Crystal Shards is the Bandana Dee. He also had a boss fight and chose to help Kirby yet had no noticeable differences from others of his species. Was also the only one of his kind in that game for some reason.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Cutie Gwen Does GK fire shield beams? I don't recall from any of his 3 fights. And a lot of his attacks in Kirby are borrowed from MK, just beefed up in speed, power, range etc.

And The Stoopid Unikorn Bandana Dee had a boss fight too in Superstar! Video was posted last time he was brought up, best boss fight ever~

Come to think of it, it probably doesn't matter and won't ever be addressed by Nintendo or HAL or whoever works on Kirby nowadays but I wonder if the Waddle Dee from Crystal Shards is the Bandana Dee. He also had a boss fight and chose to help Kirby yet had no noticeable differences from others of his species. Was also the only one of his kind in that game for some reason.

Yeah. He puts up his shield and it fires a laser beam. I think you can eat it and get Cutter in KSSU.
While that's true, his unique attacks are, well, unique. Plus he has a lance, which means you can create unique moves if you need to. Then there's attacks Galacta Knight borrows that Meta Knight outright didn't use in Smash like the giant Mach Tornado and aerial downwards thrust