Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Polan]

Except he doesn't seem to have gotten the August Direct right at all?

he got tournament mode right and everything else he was kind of right (new modes being shown off, frst look at the menu.) If i had to guess, he/his source probably saw snippets of the direct then made some assumptions.

 

[CosmicQuark]

cuz he clearly had a source that told him about the august direct and he might have seen snippets of it (nintendo could have busted that source though). that and everyone expecting all the newcomers to be ballot based is just asking to be disappointed.

I think they clearly had a source with the E3 Direct, because they listed bullet points what would happen, and got pretty much everything right, save a couple mistakes. But the August Direct is where they became a mixed bag. I posted my reasoning earlier:

Loz's claims:

CORRECT: The Nintendo Direct will come around August
VAGUE: Info will be shown from the title screen to the menu options.
WRONG: Three modes will be shown besides All-Star Mode.
OBVIOUS: Tournament mode is returning.
DEAD WRONG: The new mode will be revealed and it will be the primary way to unlock characters.

And my criticisms are not about the message (I think it's fairly obvious to try to keep expectations realistic, something I struggle with myself), but the messenger itself. Loz after the E3 Direct has been vague, stating the obvious, or was clearly wrong. Not to mention after "leaking" Skull Kid, they began wearing their bias on their sleeve (which is fine for someone speaking their opinion, not for someone trying to be a reliable source), talking non-stop about Skull Kid on Twitter, and "Legend of Zelda 13" should probably not be a reliable source for anything Zelda related to begin with.

Loz seems to me like someone who got info on E3, but wanted to remain in the spotlight so they drummed up their favorite character in the hopes that people would start talking about them more. And that's exactly what happened--while Skull Kid was popular, Loz is what open the floodgates for Skull Kid hype. Before hiding in a private Discord, where anybody could photoshop something they said, and we would have no means of verifying it personally. It's their right, but it's also my right to not pay any attention to them if they're going off in hiding.

I personally think Skull Kid has a fair chance, but for other reasons. His popularity in the Brawl era, missing AT, Moon assist (this one's shaky tho), and Skull Kid being on Reggie's desk (not the best evidence, but it's there). Not chairs, and definitely not Loz.

 

[IGuessItsOver]

Isn't Waluigi's main theme being THE spin-off character?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I'm pretty sure Sakurai will try and include him in the next game.

I really don't think there will be another Smash after this. It's being called Ultimate for a reason and I can't see how any future installments will top this. If Smash is to be continued it'd make sense to just keep releasing this game for every future console and give it seasons like characters, stages, music, etc.

In fact what I can see happening next is an spiritual successor say like an crossover RPG game.

There's also the idea of rebooting it as well but I don't think fans will be up for that having most of the roster cut out.

 

[Enchess]

Fighting Style: Always wielding a tennis racket, using tennis moves and long kicks.



Throws:

>Waluigi serves the opponent like a tennis ball

<Tennis backhand

^Upwards kick

V Axe kick



Specials:

B- Service: Waluigi serves a tennis ball projectile. Once it hits someone, it bounces back to Waluigi. Waluigi can bounce it indefinitely as long as he hits it again with any racket attack. Only one ball may be present at a time.



B> Whirluigi: Waluigi rapidly spins with his racket. Pushes opponents and reflects projectiles. In the air, allows Waluigi to move horizontally.



B^ Waluigi Copter: Waluigi does a handstand and combo kick that traps opponents, like the Mario Tornado. In the air, it allows Waluigi to fly freely during the duration of the move.



BV Stomp: Waluigi pummels the ground rapidly with his leg, burying opponents.

You misread my post. The "no moveset potential" thing was never really an issue for Little Mac, which is why I brought up Falcon. I'm not saying it was an issue for Waluigi. His issue is entirely different than any character we've ever gotten

 

[Pakky]

Except Little Mac is the main character of his series.

Waluigi could be the main character of his own series.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

The Sims

Is it prevalent only in our society, or Worldwide?

I'm going to go with the latter, as My Sims (2007) was the first Sims game to be released in Japan.

Also, it has an assist trophy, doesn't it? I'm pretty sure it does. It's the guy who erects a giant-ass skyscraper. Is it just me, or did the Skyscraper get bigger in this game?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I can't remember a single time where Sakurai said they needed importance in their series. Even then, Waluigi is part of some stories within the various games. The Super Mario series is not "only platformers". Miyamoto went over this too; he views the games as more actors playing a role. Every character has their role. Being Waluigi has story roles, he holds importance. He literally has as many(if not more) story roles than Daisy at this point. I can't think of more than 2 story roles for Daisy(Super Mario Land and Mario Party 3). Waluigi has at least one Mario Tennis game, Mario Party 3, and Dance Dance Revolution: Mario Mix. Sounds like clear importance to me.

It's also called the Super Mario series, not Super Mario Bros. Platformers aren't the only important thing either. If it was, Geno wouldn't even be considered, since he's from a pure spin-off. The whole idea that Waluigi won't get in cause he's "not important enough" holds no water at this point. There's clearly more to it than that. It could be him not being able to come up with a full moveset, it could be Camelot not being interested in having him playable, it could be Miyamoto thinking he shouldn't be in, or something else.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Waluigi could be the main character of his own series.

Which apparently hasn't yet happened for the almost 20 years he's been in existence.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm surprised neither of you named him

Speaking of Woody, Toy Story's Woody absolutely deserves a spot on this hypothetical roster considering how huge Toy Story's impact is. And while on the topic of CG characters, maybe Shrek could be in too...

 

[StormC]

I really don't think there will be another Smash after this.

Every time I see this comment it makes me think people here assume corporations don't like money or something.

"It's Ultimate" "Sakurai is tired" "There's already a ton of characters"

Smash will keep going as long as it makes money. And it does. A lot.

 

[blazefan519]

Oh boy are we having a Waluigi argument? Well I guess I should give my thought. I really wouldn't care if he was added playable or was kept to an assist, I just don't care for him enough for me to decide whether he should be one or the other. The only Mario character I want added is Toad, if he gets added, they can add a ****ing Shy Guy for all I care. Waluigi has his fans and I'd genuinely would feel happy for them if he got added, but it's just something I don't care about either way it goes. It's the same for Geno and Paper Mario (although I like Paper Mario and actually would dig his inclusion). They just aren't the Mario character I really want is all.

Also I was watching the Loz18 GameFAQs convo thing and someone just leaked them and Loz's entire conversation on that private discord. Not sure if that's legal but, it contains some pretty interesting information.

 

[P.Kat]

Twilight's gonna be ****ing top tier with her alicorn magic

Her Final Smash...

Yeah... Trek should not have destroyed her home/library.

On another topic, I wonder how likely Terra's chances are for Smash with Cloud in?

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I really don't think there will be another Smash after this. It's being called Ultimate for a reason and I can't see how any future installments will top this. If Smash is to be continued it'd make sense to just keep releasing this game for every future console and give it seasons like characters, stages, music, etc.

In fact what I can see happening next is an spiritual successor say like an crossover RPG game.

There's also the idea of rebooting it as well but I don't think fans will be up for that having most of the roster cut out.

The only way there won't be another Smash game is if Earth explodes or Nintendo goes bankrupt.

 

[Pakky]

Which apparently hasn't yet happened for the almost 20 years he's been in existence.

Anyone can come back

 

[IGuessItsOver]

Also, it has an assist trophy, doesn't it? I'm pretty sure it does. It's the guy who erects a giant-*** skyscraper. Is it just me, or did the Skyscraper get bigger in this game?

OOOOOH so he's from SimCity, never knew that

 

[Tree Gelbman]

''Waluigi is irrelevant to his series"

-glares at Daisy-

And that's not knocking her, but a cell phone game and a one off appearance in a classic hand held game don't really make her relevant to Mario EITHER.

She still deserves her spot in Smash however, because people WANTED her in Smash.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Every time I see this comment it makes me think people here assume corporations don't like money or something.

"It's Ultimate" "Sakurai is tired" "There's already a ton of characters"

Smash will keep going as long as it makes money. And it does. A lot.

And again the only logical route I think for this to go is keep releasing the same game for every future console but with seasons like characters, stages, music, etc.

There's rebooting it too but people won't be up for that. I honestly like the idea of an spiritual successor though in the form of an crossover RPG.

 

[GhostRoy]

https://www.reddit.com/r/KingdomHearts/comments/8womxv/kh3_monsters_inc_easter_egg_in_the_toy_story/

 

[Will]

Waluigi could be the main character of his own series.

If you give Waluigi a main-series game, that rips him of his identity. A better idea is to make a spinoff Mario game where he's given more focus.

or make Waluigi Pinball an actual thing because seriously I have not had a good pinball experience since Space Cadet 3D

 

[RileyXY1]

Is it prevalent only in our society, or Worldwide?

I'm going to go with the latter, as My Sims (2007) was the first Sims game to be released in Japan.

Also, it has an assist trophy, doesn't it? I'm pretty sure it does. It's the guy who erects a giant-*** skyscraper. Is it just me, or did the Skyscraper get bigger in this game?

That refers to SimCity, and despite EA owning the rights to the Sims, Nintendo still owns the character of Dr. Wright, which is why he appears in Smash as an Assist Trophy.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

''Waluigi is irrelevant to his series"

-glares at Daisy-

And that's not knocking her, but a cell phone game and a one off appearance in a classic hand held game don't really make her relevant to Mario EITHER.

You do realize she starred in two main Mario games. Super Mario Land and Super Mario Run (Which was confirmed).

What did Waluigi only star in?

Spin-off sports games. He doesn't even appear in WarioWare like at all.

 

[Luigi The President]

he got tournament mode right and everything else he was kind of right (new modes being shown off, frst look at the menu.) If i had to guess, he/his source probably saw snippets of the direct then made some assumptions.

I'd appreciate it if you can find me the Direct leak.

 

[IGuessItsOver]

https://www.reddit.com/r/KingdomHearts/comments/8womxv/kh3_monsters_inc_easter_egg_in_the_toy_story/

Now way they would reference a Nintendo title in a multiplatform game.

 

[Enchess]

I can't remember a single time where Sakurai said they needed importance in their series. Even then, Waluigi is part of some stories within the various games. The Super Mario series is not "only platformers". Miyamoto went over this too; he views the games as more actors playing a role. Every character has their role. Being Waluigi has story roles, he holds importance. He literally has as many(if not more) story roles than Daisy at this point. I can't think of more than 2 story roles for Daisy(Super Mario Land and Mario Party 3). Waluigi has at least one Mario Tennis game, Mario Party 3, and Dance Dance Revolution: Mario Mix. Sounds like clear importance to me.

It's also called the Super Mario series, not Super Mario Bros. Platformers aren't the only important thing either. If it was, Geno wouldn't even be considered, since he's from a pure spin-off. The whole idea that Waluigi won't get in cause he's "not important enough" holds no water at this point. There's clearly more to it than that. It could be him not being able to come up with a full moveset, it could be Camelot not being interested in having him playable, it could be Miyamoto thinking he shouldn't be in, or something else.

That's the best rebuttal I've seen. Thanks for putting it out there. I wish more Waluigi support used actual evidence of importance within series. The spinoffs I've played with Waluigi didn't have him in any particularly notable role, so I would've thought it was the same in the three you mentioned as well, but maybe not.

I do still think he's less notable than Mario, Luigi, Bowser, Wario, and Peach within the spinoffs, which being 6th most important at best within a series doesn't make him seem important to me.

Again, I don't think he's impossible, but 6th most important character in his games is still a ton less than most recurring series antagonist in his own series like Ridley and K Rool have.

 

[Will]

She still deserves her spot

How exactly did she deserve to be in? What made her a necessity to be in the game for all of her supposedly hard work and achievements?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Anyways I feel like I'm repeating myself. Should drop this entire debate before it gets out of hand. All in all I just don't see Waluigi ever happening but won't deny I could be wrong. I'm just going by what Sakurai has ever supposedly said.

 

[Zathura]

Forget waluigi, Wart echo for K Rule when?

 

[?????????????]

You do realize she starred in two main Mario games. Super Mario Land and Super Mario Run (Which was confirmed).

Does being a hostage that doesn’t appear until the end of the game constitute “starring?”

I don’t understand why these “sports games” are treated as any less legitimate than the adventure games. We have characters like Wii Fit Trainer.

Doesn’t Mario Tennis sell well? Isn’t Mario Kart, on it’s own, one of the best selling video game franchises of all time?

These are perfectly legitimate games, and Waluigi is an expected character of them. More than that, he usually stands out.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

You do realize she starred in two main Mario games. Super Mario Land and Super Mario Run (Which was confirmed).

What did Waluigi only star in?

Spin-off sports games. He doesn't even appear in WarioWare like at all.

Did I not just list those two games? I'm pretty sure ''mobile game" is Super Mario Run and ''Classic Hand Held Game" is Mario Land.

In the grand scheme of Mario? Those two games? They're not even THAT important to Mario's history as a character. Thus making her purely irrelevant to Mario as a whole. She was introduced as ''Non Peach" the Princess and then later came back in sports titles to give her a partner.

She's not important to Mario in the least really. She's just a nifty side character like Waluigi that people adore.

 

[Shepand Pagwins]

I have this image in my head of Sakurai quitting after ultimate, and the next game has triple tripping and shrek, this won't be the last smash game released, but it has a chance of being the last true smash game

 

[Nethermoosen]

I agree.

Waluigi IMO shouldn't be seen as this big icon. People shouldn't clamor to say "he deserves his own game!!!" or whatnot, because his gimmick is that he doesn't have a game. His character revolves around these spinoff games, but has so much character shown about him from those spinoffs alone because that's all he has. He's more of the spinoff rep than Daisy IMO.

t. biggest waluigi fanboy

You know, I don’t care for Waluigi at all, I absolutely hate him. But icons are aren’t simply chosen by a company or individual. Icons are chosen by the masses. It doesn’t matter what he’s marketed as, because he is loved by enough people. An icon is anything or anyone regarded as a symbol for something. He is THE icon for the underdogs of gaming for just enough people that it broke the internet for a moment.

Before this Smash, I would never have thought Waluigi was cared about that much. Painful as It is to know for a hater.

 

[?????????????]

My post was in the works before I realized the topic reached its conclusion and was dropped. My bad. Let’s move on.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

And what ????????????? said. I really don't get why people **** all over spin-offs in this fanbase, but ESPECIALLY the Mario Kart/Tennis/Party titles.

All of which are stables of gaming as much as the main line Mario games. As well as Nintendo. Same goes for the Mario RPGS.

It's time BOTH of them get more than stage and assist trophy representation IMO.

 

[Will]

Did I not just list those two games? I'm pretty sure ''mobile game" is Super Mario Run and ''Classic Hand Held Game" is Mario Land.

In the grand scheme of Mario? Those two games? They're not even THAT important to Mario's history as a character. Thus making her purely irrelevant to Mario as a whole. She was introduced as ''Non Peach" the Princess and then later came back in sports titles to give her a partner.

She's not important to Mario in the least really. She's just a nifty side character like Waluigi that people adore.

Dude let's not talk about how Daisy is irrelevant.
Let's talk about how THIS THING is irrelevant.

 

[Noipoi]

Super Mario Land is among the least referenced main series Mario games, we haven't seen Tatanga since.

Daisy basically exists only in the spin off games at this point, right there with Waluigi.

 

[Enchess]

Does being a hostage that doesn’t appear until the end of the game constitute “starring?”

I don’t understand why these “sports games” are treated as any less legitimate than the adventure games. We have characters like Wii Fit Trainer.

Doesn’t Mario Tennis sell well? Isn’t Mario Kart, on it’s own, one of the best selling video game franchises of all time?

These are perfectly legitimate games, and Waluigi is an expected character of them. More than that, he usually stands out.

But he's not even in the top 5 most important characters in those spinoffs is the point being made. That's still Mario, Luigi, Bowser, Peach, Wario, Yoshi.

Daisy I actually agree on lacking importance for the most part, but, you know, echo.

 

[Will]

Super Mario Land is among the least referenced main series Mario games, we haven't seen Tatanga since.

lol this dude never even played the six golden coins

 

[Zathura]

Super Mario Land is among the least referenced main series Mario games, we haven't seen Tatanga since.

Daisy basically exists only in the spin off games at this point, right there with Waluigi.

Yeah but mario land 2 gave us wario, and look what became of him

 

[P.Kat]

Hold up. Wars are on the horizon, people are starving, people are scared their most wanted aren’t gonna get into Smash(priority) and YOU are galloping around....putting PINEAPPLE....on cheesy, vegetable-covered bread?

JESUS!

Spoiler

View attachment 161395[SPOILER/]

What can I say, sometimes I just like to watch the world burn. Helps that it also doubles as an oven for my Pineapple Pizza. Maybe it's because my top pick outside of Elma aren't that likely.