Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[MrRoidley]

Brings up an interesting music point.

There’s a Mario song which is a “Super Mario World” medley.

There’s a Yoshi stage based on Super Mario World.

If we can only assign music by series, does that mean we don’t get the SMW song on the SMW stage? I wonder if the Yoshi songs will be considered Mario for things like these - or if there are a few cross-series songs possible (I know a lot of people want Gangplank Galleon on Pirate Ship)

I guess that'll happen with Mario and Yoshi. Smash barely divides both series at this point (as seen with Yoshi's placement in 4's roster)
My main question with music though is the "other" section. Will, say, the Duck Hunt stage have songs from Duck Hunt, Wii Fit, Ice Climber, Wrecking Crew, R.O.B., Pilotwings, Snipperclips, The Wonderful 101, Nintendo Land, Style Savvy, etc? it sounds too weird to me

 

[Over9000BPM]

It's because Mr. Saturn is the final boss of the new Spirits mode.

I heard it was Waluigi with the infinity gauntlet

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

ok i was joking before but i just realized that he’s in the box art what the **** is going on sakurai

View attachment 160925

I thought you were onto something until I realized everyone on the box art is the same art from the mural so yeah...he's part of Olimar's pose so that makes sense.

#mr.saturnforSSBU

 

[AreJay25]

I can't believe Mr. Saturn would get in over the much more deserving Sandbag. He gets beaten up for all these years and he still doesn't get to join the fight? Mr. Saturn stole that slot and Sakurai knows it.

 

[Sharkarat]

Game theory sucks now. Now it's just mindless clickbait theories with flawed evidence and little science on whatever is currently trending.

Me and my brother even jokes about him always being wrong about zelda. mostly because a combination of the "Link is dead" one (which was almost purely based on thematic and required him to ignore that Oot/MM link has an descendant) and the Moon one (Going into detail how small and light it would need to be, this would have been right, but he then explain what would if the moon got close which would require that it matches numbers closer to our moon, the two halves of the video literally doesn't work with each other).

 

[Metal Shop X]

I'm still waiting for my Shiny Metal Mario echo fighter, Smash 64 fans have been waiting him for years. Well, i'm saying that, but I just want Metal Cavern.

 

[Pakky]

Was that Agnes leak proven fake?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Smash barely divides both series at this point (as seen with Yoshi's placement in 4's roster)

They barely did since Melee, given that one of the “Yoshi” stages is literally from Super Mario World.

 

[Deleted member]

I never really saw the need to divide Yoshi from the Mario series to begin with. I always saw it as a subset of Mario games; same with Wario. They've become their own thing over time, but both of them are primarily Mario series characters so it really shouldn't be too big a surprise to people that they're often grouped with, or mixed in with, Mario characters.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Was that Agnes leak proven fake?

The name’s not even spelled right in the leak lol

 

[True Blue Warrior]

What is your cutoff for "younger" fans? I doubt a lot of teenagers or younger are playing Bravely Default, given that it's a JPRG series from a company that made all their classic games before the 2010s. I'd bet most people buying it were at least in their 20s... which is the group you and I fall in. I didn't even own an NES growing up but I later discovered the Mega Man games and became a big fan. There is nothing stopping younger fans from discovering older games and it's sort of naive for you to act like it rarely happens. The DKC games have been rereleased through the Virtual Console multiple times in the last decade and there is nothing stopping younger fans from trying them.

So what is your point that K. Rool appeals largely to older fans? So what? Should he not be in the game? My point is Smash, and Nintendo nowadays, IS largely older fans. The biggest demographic is now people in their 20s and 30s. We are the target audience. People with disposable income who are more picky about what they buy. The idea that we should just be quiet and not want anything is so insulting. This game is going to be a massive success exactly because it is targeting the older Smash demographic who has been with the series since the first game. It's going to be the highest selling Smash of all time and no amount of handwringing on the internet about "think of the children" is going to change that.

I'm sorry that you don't like most of the characters in the game, and I hope more appear that you do like, but taking it out on the characters in the game (and characters that fans are hoping for) is so childish. This series wouldn't exist if it wasn't for us who have been supporting it since the beginning.

To be honest, the people upset at the current newcomer roster are indeed a vocal minority.

 

[Zathura]

I never really saw the need to divide Yoshi from the Mario series to begin with. I always saw it as a subset of Mario games; same with Wario. They've become their own thing over time, but both of them are primarily Mario series characters so it really shouldn't be too big a surprise to people that they're often grouped with, or mixed in with, Mario characters.

I agree, just because they've had their own game series doesn't mean they're not mario characters, it's like saying luigi is his own thing because he has the mansion series.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I agree, just because they've had their own game series doesn't mean they're not mario characters, it's like saying luigi is his own thing because he has the mansion series.

I think they classify the Yoshi, Wario and DK franchises because they’ve managed to see success WITHOUT Mario being present whatsoever.

 

[Zathura]

I think they classify the Yoshi, Wario and DK franchises because they’ve managed to see success WITHOUT Mario being present whatsoever.

That's fair I guess, it's still weird how they act as though they're FROM warioware or yoshis island instead of just being characters that found success through those games tho

 

[MrRoidley]

I guess Yoshi is separated because back in N64 they were clearly divided, especially because of Yoshi's Story (a game that told a quest solely of Yoshis with no Mario or Baby Mario whatsoever)
and Wario is definitely because of WarioWare. Even so, Wario Land definitely evolved from Mario Land and became the main handheld platformer series, with its own lore and cast of characters

 

[Deleted member]

I think they classify the Yoshi, Wario and DK franchises because they’ve managed to see success WITHOUT Mario being present whatsoever.

DK was never really a mario series character. The prototype for Mario was the protagonist, sure, but he was still 'Jumpman' at that point. He wasn't really fleshed out and his own character until afterward for a different IP. If you consider that a Mario series character just because his prototype was in it, then you'd have to consider Punch-Out! a Mario series too since Mario was the Ref.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Part 1 debuts today if you didn't already know. I forget what time via livestream on their twitch channel, but if you miss it, they said it'll be up on the channel directly afterward.

I know...and I’m expecting nothing but perfection

ok i was joking before but i just realized that he’s in the box art what the **** is going on sakurai

View attachment 160925

Mr.Saturn will be the final boss of Classic Mode (being even more powerful than Master Core) in order to be freed and become the final unlockable playable character...before Clementine unexpectedly joins Smash Bros and once again shows why she’s...

Spoiler

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

To be honest, the people upset at the current newcomer roster are indeed a vocal minority.

Yea seriously I don't know a lot of people who aren't hyped for this game's roster, returning veterans and newcomers. The internet definitely makes it seem like the majority of people are excited for this roster and the fact it's already the best selling game of 2018 on Amazon is saying something.

So who is this imaginary group of people not happy with the current roster that we should be catering to? Lol

Edit: joking aside, I'm pretty sure once the full roster is revealed, the roster will not be one of the weak points of the game. I'm sorry if out of 70+ characters you can't find a single character you love.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I think they classify the Yoshi, Wario and DK franchises because they’ve managed to see success WITHOUT Mario being present whatsoever.

While that is true, and probably the reason they're separated, it seems odd for Yoshi and Wario to both be in a category of one when they are a subset of a larger series. DK makes sense separated, as the series has Diddy Kong and now King K Rool, and there's a lot less cross-series pollinating with the DK franchise. In my head, at least, it's just difficult to separate Yoshi and Wario from the Mario series.

EDIT:

I guess Yoshi is separated because back in N64 they were clearly divided, especially because of Yoshi's Story (a game that told a quest solely of Yoshis with no Mario or Baby Mario whatsoever)
and Wario is definitely because of WarioWare. Even so, Wario Land definitely evolved from Mario Land and became the main handheld platformer series, with its own lore and cast of characters

I mean, it's been so long since I've played it, but I played Yoshi Story so much--wasn't Baby Bowser like the final boss? It's what I mean by cross-series pollinating. Sure, Baby Bowser was introduced into the Yoshi series--but it's still very closely tied to the Mario series through Bowser. It's not *completely* stand-alone.

 

[Slavic]

DK was never really a mario series character. The prototype for Mario was the protagonist, sure, but he was still 'Jumpman' at that point. He wasn't really fleshed out and his own character until afterward for a different IP. If you consider that a Mario series character just because his prototype was in it, then you'd have to consider Punch-Out! a Mario series too since Mario was the Ref.

there's definitely some truth to that but DK has had a strong association with Mario since his creation with games like Kart, Party, Mario vs. Donkey Kong, etc. They're very clearly characters that share a universe unlike, say, Mario and Mike Tyson

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Yea seriously I don't know a lot of people who aren't hyped for this games rosters, returning veterans and newcomers. The internet definitely makes it seem like the majority of people are excited for this roster and the fact it's already the best selling game of 2018 on Amazon is saying something.

So who is this imaginary group of people not happy with the current roster that we should be catering to? Lol

The kids who started playing on Switch. Because as well as BotW, Mario Kart 8 and Odyssey content doesn't exist (keep in mind those three games I mentioned as well as Splatoon 2 are the top 4 Switch games in terms of sales.)

 

[Deleted member]

there's definitely some truth to that but DK has had a strong association with Mario since his creation with games like Kart, Party, Mario vs. Donkey Kong, etc. They're very clearly characters that share a universe unlike, say, Mario and Mike Tyson

Yeah, probably because they both became their own series, but their ancestors, so to speak, shared their first game together. Its a common theory that Cranky Kong is actually the original Donkey Kong from the Arcade game.

 

[Pakky]

To be honest, the people upset at the current newcomer roster are indeed a vocal minority.

Yeah, I mean I'm waiting for some things to be cleared up from Smash 4 but otherwise I'm overjoyed.

 

[ThatGuyWhoKnowsNothing]

The kids who started playing on Switch. Because as well as BotW, Mario Kart 8 and Odyssey content doesn't exist (keep in mind those three games I mentioned as well as Splatoon 2 are the top 4 Switch games in terms of sales.)

I obviously don't speak for everyone, but the switch was my introduction to Nintendo, and I'm excited for the game

 

[Arcadenik]

To be honest, the people upset at the current newcomer roster are indeed a vocal minority.

Yes, the vocal minority complaining that Ultimate panders to old people.

Never mind that Smash 4 had newcomers from new games between 2007 and 2015 except for Duck Hunt Dog.

 

[Pakky]

Yea seriously I don't know a lot of people who aren't hyped for this game's roster, returning veterans and newcomers. The internet definitely makes it seem like the majority of people are excited for this roster and the fact it's already the best selling game of 2018 on Amazon is saying something.

So who is this imaginary group of people not happy with the current roster that we should be catering to? Lol

Edit: joking aside, I'm pretty sure once the full roster is revealed, the roster will not be one of the weak points of the game. I'm sorry if out of 70+ characters you can't find a single character you love.

Honestly

I'm kinda set already, plus all the quality of life and competitive stuff has me jazzed.

and if some theories, myself and a few others had since before E3 pan out, its smooth sailing from here.

Again the Rayman thing HAS to be addressed. either he's an AT or a full character.

 

[osby]

Yes, the vocal minority complaining that Ultimate panders to old people.

Never mind that Smash 4 had newcomers from new games between 2007 and 2015 except for Duck Hunt Dog.

I mean, all newcomers we got in this game comes from eras that already covered (1980-2015).

Just because you have something, doesn't mean you can't ask for more. Brawl introduced a lot of old characters and people still wanted more in Smash For.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Waluigi introducing Isaac to newer Assist trophies is just hilarious.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

To be honest, the people upset at the current newcomer roster are indeed a vocal minority.

Smashboards is the only place I've seen any criticism of the roster after the initial Waluigi wave settled down, and it's usually the same 2 or 3 individuals complaining about a lack of newer characters. I'd even say the minority is way smaller than for past games as there aren't any megaton characters left to rally behind with Ridley and K. Rool in, people want all sorts of different characters now, so it's not like you can say "The fact that X character isn't in is absurd" and get a sizeable amount of backers on that front.

Either way I'm pretty confident in saying that by December we'll just be laughing off the "not enough new characters" complaints, it's still way too early to pretend like we know where the roster is ultimately headed. People ought to have a little patience.

 

[Deleted member]

Waluigi introducing Isaac to newer Assist trophies is just hilarious.

I love Shovel Knight being excited about being an assist. But the Isaac cap tho

*Wario walks in and sees Isaac wearing an yellow cap*
Waluigi: "Bro, it's not what it looks like, I can explain!"

 

[Pakky]

Smashboards is the only place I've seen any criticism of the roster after the initial Waluigi wave settled down, and it's usually the same 2 or 3 individuals complaining about a lack of newer characters. I'd even say the minority is way smaller than for past games as there aren't any megaton characters left to rally behind with Ridley and K. Rool in, people want all sorts of different characters now, so it's not like you can say "The fact that X character isn't in is absurd" and get a sizeable amount of backers on that front.

Either way I'm pretty confident in saying that by December we'll just be laughing off the "not enough new characters" complaints, it's still way too early to pretend like we know where the roster is ultimately headed. People ought to have a little patience.

I gotta agree cuz I'm not even mad at anything, there's no one really left to argue for. There are some fleeting wishes that might be revealed as echoes or just straight up characters in some cases, but otherwise, yeah.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Honestly

I'm kinda set already, plus all the quality of life and competitive stuff has me jazzed.

and if some theories, myself and a few others had since before E3 pan out, its smooth sailing from here.

Again the Rayman thing HAS to be addressed. either he's an AT or a full character.

I've gone so back and forth over Rayman the last couple months lol.

Pre E3 he was an absolute lock, but that's slowly dimished over time and with how fan servicey this game is? Sure Rayman has fans, but there are definitely other third parties that would make a much bigger splash, and I can't see Sakurai just adding him because Ubisoft and Nintendo are close now, which was pretty much my only reasons for speculating him.

At this point with the Shovel Knight AT, I would be surprised if he wasn't at least an AT.

 

[MalcolmBelmont]

You know what i could see happening - Travis Touchdown being the first DLC Character for Smash Ultimate. He could be announced at the Gaming Awards and then released in January

 

[Justin Little]

there's definitely some truth to that but DK has had a strong association with Mario since his creation with games like Kart, Party, Mario vs. Donkey Kong, etc. They're very clearly characters that share a universe unlike, say, Mario and Mike Tyson

They don't share a universe according to Mario + Rabbids. I personally think the DK series deserves to break away from Mario's shadow. It's popular enough on its own. Not that Yoshi and Wario aren't popular, but they aren't as big as DK. If I were to put logic into the DK crew's appearances in Mario sports spinoffs, then they are two separate worlds that happen to be connected to a warp pipe. Other worlds are also connected to Mario's which would explain why Link, Inkling, and the Animal Crossing characters are in Mario Kart 8.

 

[Slavic]

They don't share a universe according to Mario + Rabbids. I personally think the DK series deserves to break away from Mario's shadow. It's popular enough on its own. Not that Yoshi and Wario aren't popular, but they aren't as big as DK. If I were to put logic into the DK crew's appearances in Mario sports spinoffs, then they are two separate worlds that happen to be connected to a warp pipe. Other worlds are also connected to Mario's which would explain why Link, Inkling, and the Animal Crossing characters are in Mario Kart 8.

Oh believe me, I'm not saying DK series is a spinoff of Mario games, I'm just saying there's more ambiguity because the two series interact quite a bit more than other series do. Also I'm a little scared of Rabbids being the say all for canon in the Mario universe.

 

[Door Key Pig]

They don't share a universe according to Mario + Rabbids. I personally think the DK series deserves to break away from Mario's shadow. It's popular enough on its own. Not that Yoshi and Wario aren't popular, but they aren't as big as DK. If I were to put logic into the DK crew's appearances in Mario sports spinoffs, then they are two separate worlds that happen to be connected to a warp pipe. Other worlds are also connected to Mario's which would explain why Link, Inkling, and the Animal Crossing characters are in Mario Kart 8.

Where does it say that in Mario +Rabbids?

 

[Curious Villager]

Eh, I wouldn't say that the Rabbits crossover has any say on the "lore" of the Mario universe. (whatever there is of it), especially since that game was developed by a third party. That's kind of like saying Hyrule Warriors is canon to the Zelda universe.

 

[Slavic]

also in Odyssey you can fly from Peach's Castle to New Donk City which definitely puts them in the same universe at some point

of course this is all if you want to even believe Mario does / should have any canon at all

 

[Androobie]

Yoshi’s series is a strange vestigial appendage in Smash because Yoshi actually had good non-Mario games when 64 released. At least they had the decency to kill F-Zero when they ran out of ideas.

 

[Llort A. Ton]

Mario and DK take place in the same world while being separate series. Like how Captain Amercia and Iron Man are both Avengers and take place in the same world, but Captain America isnt an Iron Man character. Thats how I see it at least.