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Funny how we’re calling Isaac, Geno, Skull Kid, and Banjo “boring” when two months ago we would have called it “delusional”.
I feel like this fanbase can’t make up it’s mind sometimes. Do we want hyped up, popularly requested characters, or do we want wacky, off the wall Sakurai picks? Because it feels like whichever one we get people will complain.
Yeah I know the fandom is not a hive mind and different people appreciate different things blah blah blah
I completely forgot about a RH character, I’d love Chorus Kids tbh.
As for Kumatora, while her and Lucas are very similar in abilities, their models have different heights so I could see this being an obstacle, Paula over Ness or Lucas however would work rather well since she’s the same size, so that could be an alternative. (Although preferably I’d go with Kumatora, it’s just the size I could see being the problem)
Minecraft Steve is not a contender to Banjo & Kazooie. It's no contest. If the Rare situation hadn't happened, Banjo & Kazooie would have been in Melee. Banjo-Kazooie has the moves, the characters, the music, the nostalgia. During the ballot days, Banjo & Kazooie were one of the most requested third parties, Steve was barely a blip. Minecraft is about the world, not the characters, and is better suited as a stage and Creeper assist.
Funny how we’re calling Isaac, Geno, Skull Kid, and Banjo “boring” when two months ago we would have called it “delusional”.
I feel like this fanbase can’t make up it’s mind sometimes. Do we want hyped up, popularly requested characters, or do we want wacky, off the wall Sakurai picks? Because it feels like whichever one we get people will complain.
Yeah I know the fandom is not a hive mind and different people appreciate different things blah blah blah
Let's play a game. The newcomer you want the most joins the game, but one of the original 8 characters from SSB64 (so without the unlockables) has to be removed. Who are they?
Geno - This is his time, he's never had it better. SE are already in with Cloud, arguably Geno's biggest obstacle last time. Geno's only obstacle now is SE ****ery. Don't care for him much at all, I'd pick several characters before him were it so easy but I think it's about his time.
Isaac - Honestly depends on the ballot. I feel he might have done rather well. He'd be pretty neato.
Skull Kid - 50/50 on him. He'd certainly be pretty damn interesting and cool to see.
Incineroar - Might happen but really don't care for it at all, easily one of my least favourite Pokemon.
Banjo - GargosTaunt.gif
In for two of them, neutral on one and don't want the other two.
Oh no of course. I guess why I'm trying to say is, it's very possible Sakurai isn't trying to change our expectations of characters. If 80% of people are picking these characters (at least the "boring 5" as people are calling them lol), it's possible Sakurai is acknowledging them too, in which it's possible that these are the characters remaining (among others).
I don't think the game is called "Ultimate" just because it has everyone we know, but also possibly to feasably give us many iconic, popular characters that haven't joined yet. I would call Smash ultimate, truly "Ultimate" if these characters make it
I can't believe I accidentally created a new terminology for the most speculated and then people added Isaac to it(not that I don't agree, I just forgot about him lol). Boring 5™ is a registered trademark of Shishœ and anyone who uses it from now on has to pay me royalties.
Also, before I get eaten alive again, I mean "boring" in that they're the ONLY characters anyone speculates about and it just gets boring. If I see them get revealed? Cool woohoo. Doesn't help I personally don't care for any of them. The best I could say about them is that Skull Kid is actually cool and Isaac would bring a new franchise into the mix.
Let's play a game. The newcomer you want the most joins the game, but one of the original 8 characters from SSB64 (so without the unlockables) has to be removed. Who are they?
Minecraft Steve is not a contender to Banjo & Kazooie. It's no contest. If the Rare situation hadn't happened, Banjo & Kazooie would have been in Melee. Banjo-Kazooie has the moves, the characters, the music, the nostalgia. During the ballot days, Banjo & Kazooie were one of the most requested third parties, Steve was barely a blip. Minecraft is about the world, not the characters, and is better suited as a stage and Creeper assist.
EDIT: Decided to not spoiler the image because that's what's gonna draw people to read it maybe. If a mod's not okay with it just lock it up and sue or something idk how this works
So basically if you didn't read my post from a little while ago, I think Banjo and Steve are the biggest of the triad of Microsoft IPs, with the lowest end being Microsoft's own creation: Master Chief. But who would top out in Smash between the two? I got no ****in' idea I'm not Sakurai and I don't wanna pretend like I know the most probable outcome in a choice; because I don't. I'm not even a legal adult yet, I shouldn't be trusted with these options.
But what I can present is my stupid worthless opinion and a little bit of facts here and there to maybe help some others get their big high IQ brains going.
Banjo first appeared in 1998 on the Nintendo 64, probably something you already know. But when Microsoft took that sweet sweet Rare IP, so did his ties with Nintendo. However, with Nintendo and Microsoft being all buddy buddy in recent years, this could be his chance at a new appearance for the first time in a decade.
What Banjo (and the unrelated Conker and that chick from Perfect Dark) has over all other Microsoft IPs, he does have a significant advantage in. That is his preexisting ties with Nintendo.
As the recent craze of bringing characters that have been requested in the same amount of time that Banjo has disappeared from the face of the planet (Ridley, Simon Belmont, King K. Rool, and possibly more!), that could make his revival all the more imminent if the trend continues. Banjo may have scored really high on the Ballot, which will play a big role in his favor and is probably the biggest make-or-break he has. Many people are confident in his potential results.
Hell, even Phil Spencer said he wouldn't mind putting him in! That's surely a done deal, right?
Well, not really. Phil Spencer could've likely said the same about any big Microsoft IP, but he was only asked about Banjo specifically. Who knows what would've happened if he was asked to choose what character from Microsoft he would've wanted the most, but that's just his opinion and nothing more... like his tweet. Phil isn't the say all for these types of decisions, and what comes out in the end may not come exactly as Phil expressed his gratitude for.
Also, Banjo Kazooie isn't really as big of a hit in the East as it was in the West. As many as near 2 million units in North America is shaking between 450k to 550k in Japan (thats about 1/4 compared to NA sales). I know, I know, being in the game kind of makes that point obsolete if you see it as such, but it could be a big issue as I will talk about in our next character's descriptions.
Rare owns Banjo, but there are other series that are currently live and could be picked over Banjo. That is, Fulgore from Killer Instinct (or really anyone from that game) or Rash from Battletoads (which was both a character in KI and is in the new Battletoads remake coming next year). And both IPs have made their appearances on Nintendo consoles before, even on separate generations!
Steve is an unnamed enigma, but Minecraft's official release came out in 2009 on the PC. Microsoft grabbed the IP from Mojang a few years ago, and has been going strong in its advertising, making it one of the alltime best selling games that Microsoft owns. So what's so special about this enigma?
Let's get the obvious out of the way. Minecraft is huge; really huge. Holy **** it's one of the best selling games period. With over 100 million copies on its belt and continuously rising, this thing is nuts over the globe. This is not only true in the West, but also in the East, where Japan sales of the game have reached millions upon millions on the multiple platforms he has appeared on. Even Japan resident user @Venus of the Desert Bloom mentions accounts of seeing children mention the game.
This is definitely a defining edge over Banjo, which is Minecraft's sheer popularity.
Did I mention multi-platform? Minecraft has made its way from PC, to Xbox, the Playstation, and of course, Nintendo consoles on the Wii U, 3DS, and Switch. Minecraft is everywhere, and if you want a system (and game) seller, Minecraft is the way to go in Smash Bros. I'm not suggesting Sakurai should go the money route, but if he sees fit, the madman may just.
Remember when I mentioned Nintendo and Microsoft being buddy buddy as of late? What game do you think started that? Certainly wasn't Banjo Kazooie. Minecraft and its crossplay feature for both Nintendo and Xbox consoles helped form a friendly relationship. Microsoft may have formed a circle around its game to be used, since its both its best selling and most recent familiar shared property with Nintendo at the moment.
As I've mentioned before, Steve is an enigma. He's not really a mascot, that goes more towards mob enemies such as the Creeper. It may not be wise to use such a generic avatar. I'm not a personal fan of this argument (due to ultcorrin: being just that), but you have to see both sides to remain truly neutral.
Minecraft may also conflict with the art style, as many as argued it to be too drab or "ugly" for Smash's design.
People are also reluctant to share the same audience as the shunned Minecraft audience, which includes various internet celebrities and waves of children.
Finally, the biggest hitter: the Smash Ballot. Banjo could have scored high, and as we've seen, the Ballot seems to take some type of priority over newer characters in some shape or form. If it's big enough, Minecraft definitely won't have a playable scene.
This is probably the biggest battle of Popular Nostalgia VS Popular Relevancy that I have seen for Smash character dilemma. No character is really a better choice than the other when it comes to how much they can qualify more than others. I can't say one character deserves a slot more than another because saying characters deserve to be in a crossover game is pretty dumb as is. It's mostly down to opinion on what you think.
"But Banjo obviously scored high on the polls! Steve never has a chance!", I hear one guy cry out.
That's what you may think. But remember how people talked about the big "meme" or "impossible" ballots, like Goku or Shrek. Allow me to wrap you in some tinfoil for a moment. Would you believe me if I told you that due to its large audience, Minecraft may have an impactful placing on the polls? Now it may seem pretty out of thought, because even I'm skeptical that enough kids are playing Smash Bros. to flood the market with Minecraft votes, but I don't believe that it's impossible. I'll let you think about that proposal, get a big thonker going on.
I hope my rambling gave some insight or maybe it was a fun read to look into.
or maybe i'm just dumb and wrong and nobody will even read it but who knows
I think this is a bit harsh.
I only say the Boring 5 because it is indeed getting boring seeing them everywhere.
Not because of the characters.
Geno's one of my most wanted, as is Incineroar. I'm fond of Skull Kid from childhood. Same with Banjo, even though I know he won't make it. The only one I don't particularly care for is Isaac.
C'mon now, at this point both sides (imo) got valid points. No lesson can really be taught until the game releases and BK either is or isn't there.
Harshness wasn't the intended message. When I said it was sad, I meant it makes me sad. I get that it could've been taken as more of an insult upon rereading.
My most wanted characters are in my signature (Plus Elma) however for Persona content I don’t actually just want a character, literally anything from Persona being in Smash would make me a happy child.
Harshness wasn't the intended message. When I said it was sad, I meant it makes me sad. I get that it could've been taken as more of an insult upon rereading.
Mimique seems like lucky guesses but then I feel like I am sounding like an anti-Gematsu heathen saying that.
I wouldn't complain about those additions. Dixie/Black Shadow are two out of three left in my top 10 wants not yet confirmed for Ultimate. Poor Phoenix...sounds like he would be an outlier as expected. I'm backing you for a hypothetical second ballot, baby.
I honestly agree with Zippo
when it comes to Mimique, after all his saying his predictions based on facts and clues, not straight up confirming anyone for the most part. And yeah, he may be guessing the same characters everyone is talking about, but that may be because they really ARE the most likely this time around, judging by rumors and clues and stuff.
Not to mention everyone is taking Banjo out for reasonable reasons mind you, but at the same time Mimique has a really good point going for him. Also dlc. He applies the dlc part for Rayman as well. I mean it makes sense.
Bowser Jr. is definitely pretty bad in Smash 4, but I'm not sure all of this is the logical direction. The cannon is so thoroughly horrible that it could be greatly buffed and still pretty worthless (see: what they've done with Din's Fire in every game); it's the last move I'd ask for buffs on because it's the move I think has the least potential to actually help a character who needs help pretty badly. A combo throw would be cool and actually a nice buff as a part of a bigger package, but he still has one of the worst actual grabs in the game and a dearth of good options to actually combo into. Here's what I would suggest as a focus...
First of all, Bowser Jr. more than almost anyone else needs a focus on fixing up his multi-hits. Bowser Jr.'s jab would be one of his better moves if his rapid jab weren't just so horribly unreliable, and his fsmash is such a joke that a lot of times you accurately hit and punish something only to do like 2% damage and be unsafe on hit which means his huge high power disjointed fsmash is effectively a "never useful" input. Usmash would be one of his best moves and has a lot of good properties, but people do just kinda slip out of it too often as well especially if he tries to use it while moving which is an important thing to do.
Bowser Jr. has some awful speed to power to range ratios on several of his moves too. The most obvious offender is his just comically worthless dsmash, a strong contender for the worst dsmash in the game, a move that has poor range, doesn't hit that hard, and is just comically slow in every way a move can be slow. His fair and bair too just have really poor mixes of attributes. If they're going to have the awful speed and animations they have, they need to actually hit really hard. If they are going to hit as hard as they do (kinda hard but nothing special), they either need bigger disjoints or faster speed. Bowser Jr. could easily adapt to any possible direction, but for a character who already had a lot of suspect moves, having several moves that are just bizarrely undertuned with no true positive points where other characters might have key normals is pretty devastating. A big part of what makes a bad character bad is having a ton of lousy or super situational moves and thus their playstyle becomes naturally linear as they end up forced to rely on the few things they have that are workable.
Mechakoopas are pretty poorly thought out as a move despite being one of his strategically key specials. It's a throwable item projectile that spawns far enough away from Bowser Jr. that he has to extend and take risks to use it while it will run toward his opponent. It's really good at lower levels where people aren't good at picking up items, but Bowser Jr. has to be too careful with it as things stand to not just be feeding ammunition to his opponent. Just making the drop point more shallow so Bowser Jr. has the option of picking it up without moving would be a huge positive and not really unfair at all, and it would remove the harsh effect wherein this move is basically just a skill filter wherein it loses effectiveness super quickly against strong opposition.
Yes, his up-B's strange conditional restoration is a negative. I don't actually think it's a big deal, but it's definitely really unintuitive for a lot of players and does nothing positive for the game or for the character.
As per movement, definitely the clown car side special was supposed to be his general answer but it's kinda too narrow to work out like you'd hope. It's kinda the same balance spectrum as Sonic's side special which they're tuning down here, but they can probably tune the clown car up a bit to make it a more imposing presence and to open up Jr.'s mobile offense. It's a little too technical to go into detail and there are a lot of subtle tweaks that would be useful here.
I also think Bowser Jr. suffers a lot for being one of the three Smash 4 characters who has what I'd call a gimmick garbage grab. I don't know how else to put it. Villager, Pac-Man, and Bowser Jr. have these grabs that have a few kinda odd properties that can be kinda useful in obscure situations but mostly work out to be both slow and low range which is just terrible. This thing could have such better frame data and still be completely fair, and it would help the character a lot even if none of his throws had substantial reward still though in terms of grab reward obviously Jr. has nowhere to go but up.
We have been told Bowser Jr. was rushed in 4, and I guess it shows in how many of his moves just plain work badly. He could easily be a ton better if they just go down his moveset and fix everything that is just obviously bad across the board, obviously poorly thought out, or just plain dysfunctional.
I agree with pretty much everything you say here. I tried to make my post blunt and to the point, but missed a lot of the aspects that make his moveset less than stellar (his grab, mobility, his entire moves having disjointed hatboxes etc). It didn't stop me from playing him obviously, but I still would've been nice if my all-time most wanted character was... less rushed and more though out.
Here's hoping that Ultimate will fix some of the aspects of Smash 4 Bowser Jr.
Isaac - I know nothing about Golden Sun, but I enjoy his look and I'm pretty intrigued to see how he'd play.
Skull Kid - One of my most wanted, he feels likely but only barely. I'll be ecstatic if they actually pull the trigger.
Geno - Similar to Isaac, I never played SMRPG and don't have any real interest to right now. I wouldn't mind seeing him make it, but I will admit that his moveset doesn't interest me too much personally.
Banjo&Kazooie - He's alright. I didn't grow up with Banjo as I was mostly a Playstation kid (but I did own an N64). I did play a little of the first Banjo game last year and I actually liked what I played, in a lot ways feels like a way more polished Mario 64. But anyways I'm getting off topic...
Incineroar - My favorite Pokemon. Yeah I'd be pretty happy.
In level of interest they'd rank: Skull Kid > Incineroar > Isaac > Banjo > Geno
Let's play a game. The newcomer you want the most joins the game, but one of the original 8 characters from SSB64 (so not counting the unlockables) has to be removed from Ultimate. Who are they?
Let's play a game. The newcomer you want the most joins the game, but one of the original 8 characters from SSB64 (so not counting the unlockables) has to be removed from Ultimate. Who are they?
Let's play a game. The newcomer you want the most joins the game, but one of the original 8 characters from SSB64 (so not counting the unlockables) has to be removed from Ultimate. Who are they?
I've always thought the idea of Dry Bowser is dumb. Having another Bowser that works nearly the same is like another version of Mario or Link. Why do we need another one in the first place?
Ah, okay I see. I don't really agree with his points given though. Sure any Waddle Dee can use a Parasol which Bandana Dee has used from time to time but none of them besides Bandana Dee has used a Spear. And the argument that only Kirby fans would recognize him, the same could be said for King K. Rool for DK, Isaac for Golden Sun, and especially Geno for Super Mario RPG. So what's the difference between them and Bandana Dee?
Let's play a game. The newcomer you want the most joins the game, but one of the original 8 characters from SSB64 (so not counting the unlockables) has to be removed from Ultimate. Who are they?
Let's play a game. The newcomer you want the most joins the game, but one of the original 8 characters from SSB64 (so not counting the unlockables) has to be removed from Ultimate. Who are they?
