Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Nethermoosen]

IMO, the leaks revolving solely around them is boring.
The characters? Anything but.
It's TRULY a beautiful age where these 4 are the big ones.
I mean it'd be prettier with Paper Mario but it's okay it's whatever,

Whatever. It’s fine.

Spoiler

[SPOILER/]

 

[PlugMeister]

I never felt heartbreak when it comes to Smash hype. But when Sakurai said "we have a little surprise", and Vinny played the Banjo theme when it was stage morph...

HE EVEN DID IT DURING MICROSOFT'S E3 CONFERENCE.

That alone was probably the best prank ever to grace YouTube.

 

[Will]

This is fake. They can't use Ninten for legal reasons.

What?

 

[Luigi The President]

Yes, and? He's still a third party at the moment.


View attachment 160398

No. He's the default skin with the default name.


I don't see any polls, brethren.

Spoiler: Poll Stuff

The "big one" for most Japan polls people point to at the moment.
View attachment 160402
Well ****, crickets are going partying tonight aren't they?

Simon didn't seem to be necessarily as high up either, hell he didn't even show up on that poll or most U.S. based polls, and look who showed up and brought his great great great maybe another great grandson along for the ride. Polls aren't necessarily everything here, and how many fansites with an obvious dedicated viewers have a more central following. This doesn't account for the likes of children or other types of people who smashed that Minecraft poll vote because they can't get enough of the stuff.


Unless you're Masahiro Sakurai, that's only your opinion here. I can't really tackle it because how people would want the series implemented varies from person to person, and whatever they believe in is fine. Not really a point, though.

To be fair...that poll came out this year. Don't know if it'd be too relevant for 2015.

 

[RileyXY1]

Elaborate.

They would either have to use his original design, which is nearly indistinguishable from Ness, or redesign him, which they can't do for legal reasons because it would look like a design made by the fans.

 

[Garteam]

Giving my thoughts on the Leaky 5:
Issac: Pure indifference, I've never played Golden Sun and I haven't done much research to moveset craft for him. The idea of an earth bender is neat though. It would be nice to see his fans tossed a bone.
Banjo and Kazooie: I didn't grow up with Banjo, as I never had an N64 growing up, so this character does nothing for me emotionally. I kinda struggle to see how his playstyle would be outside of a generic all-arounder.
Skull Kid: He's a pretty cool idea for a newcomer. I want to see how he plays before I give an honest opinion on him, as his moveset could go so many different ways.
Geno: The only one of the group who creates raw excitement just thinking about him. Geno is such a cool and unique character in Super Mario RPG and he would be great to see in Smash.
Incineroar: The character I am the least enthusiastic about by far. In a series with so many unique characters, it would feel like a step back to get another fiery heavyweight. There's also his struggles differentiating himself from Bowser as a wrestler archetype. Likewise, I have yet to see a moveset that makes me think "this is a unique addition that really adds to Smash". Sakurai would have to pull near Mega Man levels of moveset magic for me to not be let down by Incineroar.

 

[CannonStreak]

So, we got the Likely 5, Incineroar, Skull Kid, Isaac, Geno and Banjo. Those are neat additions to the roster if I do say so myself. Though I say they are anything but boring. Just Likely. The Likely Final Five.

 

[Dee Dude]

I mean, I can see what some folks mean.

If you're talking Smash speculation, you're gonna see the same characters come up a lot. This isn't anything new, before we knew of Cloud in Smash the conversations for DLC always involved the Inklings, Shovel Knight, K.Rool, etc etc.

Yeah it can get a little tiring to see all those characters being mentioned, but at that point, just go to a character support thread or take a break from Smash speculation altogether if you're that bored of it.

......Uh, I never said I was tired of them being brought up.

I just simply pointed out that we shouldn’t get our hopes up too high by expecting all of them to happen at once no matter how great it would be.

 

[Luigi The President]

They would either have to use his original design, which is nearly indistinguishable from Ness, or redesign him, which they can't do for legal reasons because it would look like a design made by the fans.

Bruh what

 

[Zinith]

Let's play a game. The newcomer you want the most joins the game, but one of the original 8 characters from SSB64 (so not counting the unlockables) has to be removed from Ultimate. Who are they?

I'm sorry.

Spoiler

Easy. Banjo replaces Yoshi. Now excuse me while I hide from the burning fire of anger that I just awakened within Zinith.

RIP Jigg--Wait ****, 8?

RIP Yoshi.

You just invited the wrath of zinith upon you.

I will gladly sacrifice Yoshi if it gets Celica in this game.

Can I also sacrifice Fox to get Terra in the game too?

Summoning Zinith

I’d probably sacrifice DK or Yoshi (prob Yoshi) if it means Phoenix Wright.

GAH!!! Always when I go out for a few minutes this happens!!! You're all monsters

My answer's Fox btw

 

[Will]

To be fair...that poll came out this year. Don't know if it'd be too relevant for 2015.

Yeah. I said "at the moment", didn't I?
I'm not exactly the masterful archive digger of Japan polls. Besides, the polls do have some impact, but I can't say it will have a complete priority. K. Rool was admitted to be in because of the poll, but remember they're still sticking with the gimmick of "Bayonetta totally won guise".

 

[FantasticMr.StarPit]

This is fake. They can't use Ninten for legal reasons.

Maybe because he's name resembles closely to Ninten...wait.

Ninten- Nintendo
Aw that's probably why?

 

[Luigi The President]

Yeah. I said "at the moment", didn't I?
I'm not exactly the masterful archive digger of Japan polls. Besides, the polls do have some impact, but I can't say it will have a complete priority. K. Rool was admitted to be in because of the poll, but remember they're still sticking with the gimmick of "Bayonetta totally won guise".

Sorry dude, misread.

 

[ExitWound]

They would either have to use his original design, which is nearly indistinguishable from Ness, or redesign him, which they can't do for legal reasons because it would look like a design made by the fans.

*am2r flashbacks*

 

[MBRedboy31]

I’d just love to see a Rhythm Heaven character, I don’t care who it is. A rhythm based gimmick sounds really fun

Side note about a threoretical RH rep, would they not get a stage? One would assume their stage would have a rhythm based gimmick, but that wouldn’t work at all in online lag, plus there’s the fact that music online is client sided and one would assume the stage would match the music’s tempo. They could just make the stage not available online, like Miiverse, but IDK if they’d want to do that for a character’s home stage.

 

[CannonStreak]

Latest leak from 4chan - I feel like Ninten is unlikely given that'd be 3 dead franchise reps, but then Sak doesn't even count echoes as "real fighters" so maybe he doesn't think of it that way. The rest sounds feasible i guess, but I did notice he claimed the direct would be "announced on Tuesday" and streamed 2 days later, yet gave the release date as Tuesday. Could just be a simple mistakeView attachment 160397

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/429622225

I know I'm not the usual obscure 4chan leak sharer round these parts but I couldn't wait to see what people thought about this one

EDIT: Funnily enough I just realised, if this were to come out on Thursday (two days after Tuesday, as he claims), that would line up with the post above mine.

Well, this is a nice attempt, BUT didn't they already reveal all the characters for Super Mario Party? With that, and this 4Chan leak saying Pauline is going to be playable in that game, I think we can count this leak out.

 

[RileyXY1]

Maybe because he's name resembles closely to Ninten...wait.

Ninten- Nintendo
Aw that's probably why?

No, it's because of his design. It looks too much like Ness. And, any attempt at redesigning him (especially with his appearance in that old Mother 1 ad) would bring a myriad of legal issues because it's fan made content.

 

[PlugMeister]

So, we got the Likely 5, Incineroar, Skull Kid, Isaac, Geno and Banjo. Those are neat additions to the roster if I do say so myself. Though I say they are anything but boring. Just Likely. The Likely Final Five.

The Likely Fab Five*

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Honestly if I had to get rid of one of the original 8 it'd be Yoshi.

If I could get rid of one of the original 12 it'd be Jigglypuff

 

[SebasSancy]

Here's a twist on the 'pick some newcomers' games we've been playing based on our conversations yesterday (or the day before?)

We were arguing over whether it was better to add characters from newer games for their relevance to newer fans or older games for their nostalgia factor for older fans. So let's consider adding newcomers to represent time eras - you need to choose a newcomer who debuted in each of the 5-year periods below.

Before 1990
1990-1995
1995-2000
2000-2005
2005-2010
2010-2015
After 2015

---

Here are mine:

Pre 1990: Toad (first game - Super Mario Bros 2 - 1988)
early 90's: Tails (first game - Sonic the Hedgehog 2, 1992)
late 90's: Ivy (first game - Soulcalibur, 1998
early 00's: Skull Kid (first game - Zelda: Majora's Mask, 2000)
late 00's: Twili Midna (first game - Zelda: Twilight Princess, 2006)
early 10's: Dovahkiin (first game - Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, 2011)
Post 2015: Urbosa (first game - Zelda: Breath of the Wild, 2017)
Zelda bias? What Zelda bias?

This is fun

Pre 1990: Toad (1988)
early 90s: Sonya (Mortal Kombat - 1992)
late 90s: Dixie Kong (1995)
early 00s: Isaac (2001)
late 00s: Empoleon (2006)
early 10s: Elma (2015)
Post 2015: Urbosa (2017)

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

No, it's because of his design. It looks too much like Ness. And, any attempt at redesigning him (especially with his appearance in that old Mother 1 ad) would bring a myriad of legal issues because it's fan made content.

Why would they redesign him to look like the fan design? And I don't think fans have any legal rights over how he looked in the commercial

 

[Will]

They would either have to use his original design, which is nearly indistinguishable from Ness, or redesign him, which they can't do for legal reasons because it would look like a design made by the fans.

Ninten can't be used, sir.
Why not?
Because he'll have legal actions against Ness for looking like a fan character, even though we created him ourselves.
But didn't Ninten come before Ness?

Just take the time to process what you just said.

 

[CannonStreak]

The Likely Fab Five*

Heh heh! That sounds better than what I came up with, honestly!

 

[blazefan519]

They would either have to use his original design, which is nearly indistinguishable from Ness, or redesign him, which they can't do for legal reasons because it would look like a design made by the fans.

I'm sorry wut. First of all, the fans don't own anything, it's their IP kek. And the "fan" design you're talking about is based on the comercial used to advertise the game. You know, the one that they have the rights to. Please don't claim things without knowing what you're talking about.

No, it's because of his design. It looks too much like Ness. And, any attempt at redesigning him (especially with his appearance in that old Mother 1 ad) would bring a myriad of legal issues because it's fan made content.

The fans don't own anything, what are you talking about. And you seriously think that any and all attempts to redesign him would make him look too similar to a fan design lol. Plus Ninten came before Ness, it would be the other way around lol.

 

[PeridotGX]

Here's a twist on the 'pick some newcomers' games we've been playing based on our conversations yesterday (or the day before?)

We were arguing over whether it was better to add characters from newer games for their relevance to newer fans or older games for their nostalgia factor for older fans. So let's consider adding newcomers to represent time eras - you need to choose a newcomer who debuted in each of the 5-year periods below.

Before 1990
1990-1995
1995-2000
2000-2005
2005-2010
2010-2015
After 2015

---

Here are mine:

Pre 1990: Toad (first game - Super Mario Bros 2 - 1988)
early 90's: Tails (first game - Sonic the Hedgehog 2, 1992)
late 90's: Ivy (first game - Soulcalibur, 1998
early 00's: Skull Kid (first game - Zelda: Majora's Mask, 2000)
late 00's: Twili Midna (first game - Zelda: Twilight Princess, 2006)
early 10's: Dovahkiin (first game - Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, 2011)
Post 2015: Urbosa (first game - Zelda: Breath of the Wild, 2017)
Zelda bias? What Zelda bias?

80s: Impa?
Early 90s: Kamek
Late 90s: Marx
Early 00's: Fawful
Late 00's: Bandana Dee
Early 10's: Lily (Echo for Maxwell who is also in. I can do loopholes)
Late 10's: Decidueye.

 

[Dee Dude]

You guys are basically trying to make an “elite” tier of newcomers to try to justify their inclusions.

That’s basically what people have been doing since Smash 4 speculation.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I don't think Ninten is going to make it regardless

 

[Will]

I don't think Ninten is going to make it regardless

It sure as hell won't be for that reason though

 

[Enchess]

Ok, just gonna drop off a couple thoughts:
-The Boring 5: Seriously guys? All of them went from "stupid" guesses to overly obvious? Now they are suddenly boring? Come on. Also for everyone who keeps saying they want more out there predictions, out there predictions are always shot down here. That's why we don't get them. Its also why I feel the need to keep mentioning Mio and Saki as possible newcomers, because people aren't considering them. Barbara and Lip are also super interesting worthwhile characters that I hope more people speak up about here.

-Im getting really sick of people immediately shooting down others speculation, then responding to their defense with "we aren't Sakurai, we can't know so that point is moot". You can't have it both ways. If you think Sakurai's thought process is unknowable, don't shoot down people, because after all how do you know you're right if it's unknowable?

 

[RandomAce]

That’s basically what people have been doing Smash 4 speculation.

I’m kinda hoping this would stop, but times never change and possible that what might be considered locks can wound up being untrue.

It happens with every game, I can’t find it to be different here.

 

[Dee Dude]

If I had to differentiate Ninten from Ness, I’d base him off his Mother 1 sprite similar to how Sakurai gave Ness his Earthbound sprite palette.

Also giving Ninten a different cap, spikier hair, and maybe the scarf.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Yes, and? He's still a third party at the moment.


View attachment 160398

No. He's the default skin with the default name.


I don't see any polls, brethren.

Spoiler: Poll Stuff

The "big one" for most Japan polls people point to at the moment.
View attachment 160402
Well ****, crickets are going partying tonight aren't they?

Simon didn't seem to be necessarily as high up either, hell he didn't even show up on that poll or most U.S. based polls, and look who showed up and brought his great great great maybe another great grandson along for the ride. Polls aren't necessarily everything here, and how many fansites with an obvious dedicated viewers have a more central following. This doesn't account for the likes of children or other types of people who smashed that Minecraft poll vote because they can't get enough of the stuff.


Unless you're Masahiro Sakurai, that's only your opinion here. I can't really tackle it because how people would want the series implemented varies from person to person, and whatever they believe in is fine. Not really a point, though.

The one you posted was from this year. I specified 2015 polls. Ya know, when the characters were being picked? Pick any one you like.

Spoiler: Source Gaming Japan Poll

And indeed, Banjo & Kazooie are third party--the same as Steve. We're not debating Banjo & Kazooie's chances. I think their chances are low, but would be an amazing addition. We're debating Banjo & Kazooie vs Minecraft Steve, and Banjo & Kazooie have the moves, characters, music, nostalgia, and legacy with Nintendo, despite currently being owned by a third party. Minecraft only has the popularity, and it's characters/world are best suited as a stage or assist trophy. And yes, that is only my opinion--as equally valid as yours, so I really don't see the point you're making.

 

[CannonStreak]

Ok, just gonna drop off a couple thoughts:
-The Boring 5: Seriously guys? All of them went from "stupid" guesses to overly obvious? Now they are suddenly boring? Come on. Also for everyone who keeps saying they want more out there predictions, out there predictions are always shot down here. That's why we don't get them. Its also why I feel the need to keep mentioning Mio and Saki as possible newcomers, because people aren't considering them. Barbara and Lip are also super interesting worthwhile characters that I hope more people speak up about here.

-Im getting really sick of people immediately shooting down others speculation, then responding to their defense with "we aren't Sakurai, we can't know so that point is moot". You can't have it both ways. If you think Sakurai's thought process is unknowable, don't shoot down people, because after all how do you know you're right if it's unknowable?

You can always go with the Likely Fab Five, if you wish.

 

[ExitWound]

I don't think Ninten is going to make it regardless

There's almost zero difference betwern him and Ness anyway

 

[Chrono.]

......Uh, I never said I was tired of them being brought up.

I just simply pointed out that we shouldn’t get our hopes up too high by expecting all of them to happen at once no matter how great it would be.

I'm not talking about you, I was speaking generally.

 

[Starbound]

My thoughts on the Fab Five:

- Incineroar: Basically a lock. No other Pokemon comes close.
- Geno: 50/50 happening or not. This is probably his last chance though.
- Isaac: 40/60 on him. I think GS is the IP with the best chance at making the jump aside from RH.
- Banjo: Honestly with each day that goes by this feels like more of a pipedream.
- Skull Kid: Feel like it's not happening.

 

[Collective of Bears]

So what's the actual backing behind this "Big 5" leak? Anyway, my take.

Incineroar: I was hoping for Decidueye or Tapu Koko, but given I tend to like heavy grappler style characters I'm ok with him.
Skull Kid: Admittedly I'm not a huge LoZ fan, but I think of all the characters in the series that isn't Link, Zelda, or Ganon in a different outfit, he's probably the most deserving.
Isaac: Again, never played Golden Sun so I can't really say I'm pumped, but good for his fans.
Geno: Bueno. Also never played SMRPG, but his fanbase has convinced me that he's a pretty gnarly character. Though I personally woulda preferred Paper Mario.
Banjo-Kazooie: This has got to be the one that gets revealed at the next direct. He's the "holy **** the madmen actually did it" character.

 

[Deleted member]

Here's a twist on the 'pick some newcomers' games we've been playing based on our conversations yesterday (or the day before?)

We were arguing over whether it was better to add characters from newer games for their relevance to newer fans or older games for their nostalgia factor for older fans. So let's consider adding newcomers to represent time eras - you need to choose a newcomer who debuted in each of the 5-year periods below.

Before 1990
1990-1995
1995-2000
2000-2005
2005-2010
2010-2015
After 2015

---

Here are mine:

Pre 1990: Toad (first game - Super Mario Bros 2 - 1988)
early 90's: Tails (first game - Sonic the Hedgehog 2, 1992)
late 90's: Ivy (first game - Soulcalibur, 1998
early 00's: Skull Kid (first game - Zelda: Majora's Mask, 2000)
late 00's: Twili Midna (first game - Zelda: Twilight Princess, 2006)
early 10's: Dovahkiin (first game - Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, 2011)
Post 2015: Urbosa (first game - Zelda: Breath of the Wild, 2017)
Zelda bias? What Zelda bias?

Oh ok, I like this one

Pre 90s: DK Junior(Donkey Kong Jr, 1982)
Early 90s: Chun-Li(Street Fighter II, 1991)
Late 90s: Crono(Chrono Trigger, 1995)
Early 2000s: Saber(Fate/Stay Night, 2004)
Late 2000s: Protector(Etrian Odyssey, 2007)
Early 10s: Wonder-Red(The Wonderful 101, 2013)
Late 10s: Fortnite Dude(Fortnite, 2017)

 

[Luigi The President]

Honestly, Fab Five's a lot nicer. Let's keep it!

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Here's a twist on the 'pick some newcomers' games we've been playing based on our conversations yesterday (or the day before?)

We were arguing over whether it was better to add characters from newer games for their relevance to newer fans or older games for their nostalgia factor for older fans. So let's consider adding newcomers to represent time eras - you need to choose a newcomer who debuted in each of the 5-year periods below.

Before 1990
1990-1995
1995-2000
2000-2005
2005-2010
2010-2015
After 2015

---

Here are mine:

Pre 1990: Toad (first game - Super Mario Bros 2 - 1988)
early 90's: Tails (first game - Sonic the Hedgehog 2, 1992)
late 90's: Ivy (first game - Soulcalibur, 1998
early 00's: Skull Kid (first game - Zelda: Majora's Mask, 2000)
late 00's: Twili Midna (first game - Zelda: Twilight Princess, 2006)
early 10's: Dovahkiin (first game - Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, 2011)
Post 2015: Urbosa (first game - Zelda: Breath of the Wild, 2017)
Zelda bias? What Zelda bias?

Pre 1990s: Ayumi Tachibana (original Famicom Detectives came out in 1989)
Early 90s: Tails I guess
Late 90s: Zack
Early 00s: Isaac
Late 00s: Neku (TWEWY originally came out in 2008)
Early 10’s: Bandana Waddle Dee (first playable in 2011’s Kirby Return to Dreamland)
Late 10’s: Elma