Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[KMDP]

Re: "Isaac seems boring"

These could be among Isaac's attacks.

This is boring?

 

[Zippo]

Here's Mimique's thoughts on the speculated remaining roster, very much agree with a lot of what he's said:

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I hate to offend any Isaac supporters here, because I'm sure he's actually awesome but...yeah he really, really bores me. Glad his supporters will likely get him though.
Most of Geno's moves will have to be made up tbh.

Honestly yea. Like seriously no offense to his supporters, good for you if he gets in, but the fact that he's a blonde human sword user that has magic doesn't really stand out from our existing roster. I'm sure he's really intresting on his own, but compared to other possible newcomers, meh.

Lets not lose hope for bandana dee people. There is still a chance.

No hope is lost, honestly think Bandanna Dee is the most likely newcomer, and the reason he isn't brought up a lot is because most people on here assume he's a given.

really hope that works out for his fans and we all weren't deluding ourselves like Smash 4

 

[Darkraid]

Iffy on Louie's chances. But the others are spot on.

From @mimiquevevo


(Lol Greninja'd)

 

[SlickWylde]

Guys, I know my reputation is that I'm 100% always right about every leak, and I'm NEVER ever wrong, so let me bless you children with my thoughts about the newest FAKE leak.

Geno - The answer is the last two letters of his name. (But Sakurai did make a Mii costume...) 30%
Isaac - 10%
Inceneroar - Yeah, maybe. It's a pokemon so... 70%
Skullkid - 20%
Banjo Tootie: hahahahaha no. 0% (I would scream in joy if this happened, and my life will never be that good)

Be well, my children.

 

[StormC]

Isaac: I think people are looking waaaaaaaay too far into the Monster Hunter Tweet and he most likely didn’t make the cut, don’t mean to be a downer, but I just don’t see him happening since his series hasn’t had an installment in almost a decade, Camelot has vastly restructured as a subsidiary, and the lead artist for his game passed away. It just doesn’t seem likely, I’d love to be wrong trust me, I think he’d be really cool in Smash, I just don’t see him personally.

What does an artist dying recently have anything to do with Isaac's chances...? This is the most baffling point you could possibly make.

 

[Luigi The President]

Here's Mimique's thoughts on the speculated remaining roster, very much agree with a lot of what he's said:
View attachment 160390View attachment 160391View attachment 160392

PLEASE SPOILER TAG
Also I'm not gonna lie this guy is basically restating every thing the fandom's been speculating since 8.8.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

My thoughts on “The Big 5” (I still think anything with the word “Big” in it is bound to be stupid and generalized):

Isaac: I think people are looking waaaaaaaay too far into the Monster Hunter Tweet and he most likely didn’t make the cut, don’t mean to be a downer, but I just don’t see him happening since his series hasn’t had an installment in almost a decade, Camelot has vastly restructured as a subsidiary, and the lead artist for his game passed away. It just doesn’t seem likely, I’d love to be wrong trust me, I think he’d be really cool in Smash, I just don’t see him personally.
Incineroar: Does it really have to be Incineroar, he’s my favorite starter but it could be an Ultra Beast like Buzzwole (The idea of his has grown on me for some reason and I have no idea why). Then again I thought we’d for sure get Marshadow as the Gen 7 character, so who knows what will happen?
Skull Kid: Everything is pointing towards his inclusion, it would be a surprise if he wasn’t in at this point.
Geno: he’s probably in, despite not being very relevant, he’s been consistently popular, for a Costume, and even Sakurai wanted him in Brawl, so I’d be surprised if he wasn’t added.
Banjo and Kazooie: I mean Microsoft and Nintendo have worked before, it’s just a matter if Sakurai took initiative, I’d say 50/50 but there’s no evidence either way.

Also Bandana Dee and Dixie for Smash. (Elma too and maybe a Fiora Echo if they decide to make NPC’s playable for DLC or just say **** it she’ll be playable and non-playable)

Throw in a Rhythm Heaven character and maybe Neku and that’d be all I’d need for the base roster too

(And maybe do that Fiora thing for Kumatora too, I’ve slowly become keen to Kumatora too)

 

[Will]

Imagine if people called those 4 "boring" during Smash 4 speculation, while also getting Ridley and K. Rool. Everyone would slap you silly.

Ridley is cool
K. Rool is cool
Geno isn't really surprising anyone if he makes it and tbh it kinda lost that flair
Skull Kid is just gonna be annoying because people will say THE CHAIRS WERE REAL ANALYZE E V E R Y T H I N G !
Isaac is actually not that bad for me I think he's interesting.
And Steve Banjo isn't really bringing anything to the table to cause a wave of hype that I know. I don't think Japan will bat an eye.

 

[DJ3DS]

My thoughts on the "boring 5":

These characters are only now suddenly boring because they're expected. You're literally measuring a character by how much they contribute to speculation.

That's more than a little sad in my opinion.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Oh boy... where do I even begin.
1. Fix the Cannon. Please
2. Reduced landing lag
3. At least one reliable combo throw. Just ONE.
4. After the Up B, let us respawn the clown car after getting hit, regardless of the strength of the attack.
5. Faster movement
6. Fix the freakin' Cannon.

Bowser Jr. is definitely pretty bad in Smash 4, but I'm not sure all of this is the logical direction. The cannon is so thoroughly horrible that it could be greatly buffed and still pretty worthless (see: what they've done with Din's Fire in every game); it's the last move I'd ask for buffs on because it's the move I think has the least potential to actually help a character who needs help pretty badly. A combo throw would be cool and actually a nice buff as a part of a bigger package, but he still has one of the worst actual grabs in the game and a dearth of good options to actually combo into. Here's what I would suggest as a focus...

First of all, Bowser Jr. more than almost anyone else needs a focus on fixing up his multi-hits. Bowser Jr.'s jab would be one of his better moves if his rapid jab weren't just so horribly unreliable, and his fsmash is such a joke that a lot of times you accurately hit and punish something only to do like 2% damage and be unsafe on hit which means his huge high power disjointed fsmash is effectively a "never useful" input. Usmash would be one of his best moves and has a lot of good properties, but people do just kinda slip out of it too often as well especially if he tries to use it while moving which is an important thing to do.

Bowser Jr. has some awful speed to power to range ratios on several of his moves too. The most obvious offender is his just comically worthless dsmash, a strong contender for the worst dsmash in the game, a move that has poor range, doesn't hit that hard, and is just comically slow in every way a move can be slow. His fair and bair too just have really poor mixes of attributes. If they're going to have the awful speed and animations they have, they need to actually hit really hard. If they are going to hit as hard as they do (kinda hard but nothing special), they either need bigger disjoints or faster speed. Bowser Jr. could easily adapt to any possible direction, but for a character who already had a lot of suspect moves, having several moves that are just bizarrely undertuned with no true positive points where other characters might have key normals is pretty devastating. A big part of what makes a bad character bad is having a ton of lousy or super situational moves and thus their playstyle becomes naturally linear as they end up forced to rely on the few things they have that are workable.

Mechakoopas are pretty poorly thought out as a move despite being one of his strategically key specials. It's a throwable item projectile that spawns far enough away from Bowser Jr. that he has to extend and take risks to use it while it will run toward his opponent. It's really good at lower levels where people aren't good at picking up items, but Bowser Jr. has to be too careful with it as things stand to not just be feeding ammunition to his opponent. Just making the drop point more shallow so Bowser Jr. has the option of picking it up without moving would be a huge positive and not really unfair at all, and it would remove the harsh effect wherein this move is basically just a skill filter wherein it loses effectiveness super quickly against strong opposition.

Yes, his up-B's strange conditional restoration is a negative. I don't actually think it's a big deal, but it's definitely really unintuitive for a lot of players and does nothing positive for the game or for the character.

As per movement, definitely the clown car side special was supposed to be his general answer but it's kinda too narrow to work out like you'd hope. It's kinda the same balance spectrum as Sonic's side special which they're tuning down here, but they can probably tune the clown car up a bit to make it a more imposing presence and to open up Jr.'s mobile offense. It's a little too technical to go into detail and there are a lot of subtle tweaks that would be useful here.

I also think Bowser Jr. suffers a lot for being one of the three Smash 4 characters who has what I'd call a gimmick garbage grab. I don't know how else to put it. Villager, Pac-Man, and Bowser Jr. have these grabs that have a few kinda odd properties that can be kinda useful in obscure situations but mostly work out to be both slow and low range which is just terrible. This thing could have such better frame data and still be completely fair, and it would help the character a lot even if none of his throws had substantial reward still though in terms of grab reward obviously Jr. has nowhere to go but up.

We have been told Bowser Jr. was rushed in 4, and I guess it shows in how many of his moves just plain work badly. He could easily be a ton better if they just go down his moveset and fix everything that is just obviously bad across the board, obviously poorly thought out, or just plain dysfunctional.

 

[Deleted member]

Wow.
I am really shocked by this selection of characters.
It's really surprising me.
I am going to fall asleep at my table if one more "leak" features these 4.

This is why I'm glad leakers aren't really getting as much exposure, but why I feel for people who're gonna be bored with every leak saying characters we expect. If Smash Ultimate wasn't focusing on the fanservice, we would be in a very different and interesting situation, but now we're all just gonna be bored by people saying "Issac, Geno, Incineroar, etc."

 

[Will]

View attachment 160393

Iffy on Louie's chances. But the others are spot on.

From @mimiquevevo


(Lol Greninja'd)

>he's been replaced on castle siege

 

[Luigi The President]

My thoughts on the "boring 5":

These characters are only now suddenly boring because they're expected. You're literally measuring a character by how much they contribute to speculation.

That's more than a little sad in my opinion.

I think this is a bit harsh.
I only say the Boring 5 because it is indeed getting boring seeing them everywhere.
Not because of the characters.
Geno's one of my most wanted, as is Incineroar. I'm fond of Skull Kid from childhood. Same with Banjo, even though I know he won't make it. The only one I don't particularly care for is Isaac.

>he's been replaced on castle siege

C'mon now, at this point both sides (imo) got valid points. No lesson can really be taught until the game releases and BK either is or isn't there.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

"Boring 5?" Ok, I'll give my thoughts too.

...well, they may be popular for others, but most don't do much for me. In order from least to most likely...

Banjo-Kazooie - Definitely got a lot of votes and was popular around the time of the ballot. I'd consider them very likely...if it didn't seem like Smash would go for Minecraft instead. Again, dead franchise and K.Rool scratches a lot of those nostalgia itches.
Skull Kid - I've added him to my most wanted list, but I'd still prefer Urbosa or Midna as Zelda reps. Still, I would not be disappointed in the slightest by him. However, I think his chances are a bit shaky, and I don't believe in chairs.
Isaac - I don't know him, but his assist removal in 4 was weird to say the least, particulalry since he did get a game between Brawl and Sm4sh. I wouldn't be opposed, I guess. I think his chances are around 50/50, since he probably did decently on the ballot.
Incineroar - Again, there are so many Pokémon I'd prefer, but I would be okay with Bara the Tiger. I just have been very out of the loop on Pokémon this gen. He's definitely pretty likely, especially if Decidueye is out.
Geno - I've never played SMRPG, and therefore all I see is a random side member who's been dead for 22 years. This goes against everything I've thought of about Smash specualtion, and I hate seeing people say Midna's a bad choice 'becuase she's only in one game from a while ago!' and then champion this puppet. Yeah, Sakurai likes him, but we also don't know if he also considers him too obscure. Geno would make a fantastic assist trophy though, considering a lot of them are chosen for being more obscure and that pushes them back into the spotlight. However, it does seem that he's the most likely of the five.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Ridley is cool
K. Rool is cool
Geno isn't really surprising anyone if he makes it and tbh it kinda lost that flair
Skull Kid is just gonna be annoying because people will say THE CHAIRS WERE REAL ANALYZE E V E R Y T H I N G !
Isaac is actually not that bad for me I think he's interesting.
And Steve Banjo isn't really bringing anything to the table to cause a wave of hype that I know. I don't think Japan will bat an eye.

I bet you want Steve just to see me upset.

 

[Will]

I bet you want Steve just to see me upset.

Do I want Steve? **** no please god no
Do I think Steve has a chance, at least one that could usurp Banjo in East vs West duel? yes daddy-o

 

[StormC]

Ridley is cool
K. Rool is cool
Geno isn't really surprising anyone if he makes it and tbh it kinda lost that flair
Skull Kid is just gonna be annoying because people will say THE CHAIRS WERE REAL ANALYZE E V E R Y T H I N G !
Isaac is actually not that bad for me I think he's interesting.
And Steve Banjo isn't really bringing anything to the table to cause a wave of hype that I know. I don't think Japan will bat an eye.

Are you kidding? Banjo would break the internet. Having Nintendo and Microsoft work together for the first time ever like this would be industry-changing.

Plus you know... all the people who voted for Banjo. I'm pretty sure they'd be excited.

 

[Deleted member]

Internet screwed me up, so I'll just use this post to say Counterattack better be in the music selection.

 

[Luigi The President]

This is why I'm glad leakers aren't really getting as much exposure, but why I feel for people who're gonna be bored with every leak saying characters we expect. If Smash Ultimate wasn't focusing on the fanservice, we would be in a very different and interesting situation, but now we're all just gonna be bored by people saying "Issac, Geno, Incineroar, etc."

Honestly I don't mind being bored by these lists just because it's been a long-time dream of the fandom and myself to have Ridley and K. Rool in, and that's really just enough. I don't mind being "bored" now.

 

[blazefan519]

Here's Mimique's thoughts on the speculated remaining roster, very much agree with a lot of what he's said:

Spoiler: biggu imigi

View attachment 160390View attachment 160392View attachment 160391

No thoughts on Bandana Dee? oof

 

[Will]

Having Nintendo and Microsoft work together for the first time ever like this would be industry-changing.

You say that like it didn't already happen with Banjo's #1 contender.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Do I want Steve? **** no please god no
Do I think Steve has a chance, at least one that could usurp Banjo in East vs West duel? yes daddy-o

If Steve happens I'm gonna need to process that I am indeed living in this reality.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I like how Geno, Isaac, Skull Kid and Banjo have become boring.
Like Incineroar I get, if you don't like him or Pokemon in general you really wouldn't care.
But the rest? It's hilarious compared to where we were 10 years ago.

Yeah, most people's character wants aspire to be noticed enough to even be remotely called "boring".

What does an artist dying recently have anything to do with Isaac's chances...? This is the most baffling point you could possibly make.

Hell, K. Rool's original designer wasn't even consulted when the guy got included, so it's definitely possible to include a character without any of the creators' involvement.

 

[Schnee117]

Geno - This is his time, he's never had it better. SE are already in with Cloud, arguably Geno's biggest obstacle last time. Geno's only obstacle now is SE ****ery. Don't care for him much at all, I'd pick several characters before him were it so easy but I think it's about his time.

Isaac - Honestly depends on the ballot. I feel he might have done rather well. He'd be pretty neato.

Skull Kid - 50/50 on him. He'd certainly be pretty damn interesting and cool to see.

Incineroar - Might happen but really don't care for it at all, easily one of my least favourite Pokemon.

Banjo - GargosTaunt.gif

In for two of them, neutral on one and don't want the other two.

 

[Raspberry]

Let's play a game. The newcomer you want the most joins the game, but one of the original 8 characters from SSB64 (so not counting the unlockables) has to be removed from Ultimate. Who are they?

 

[Luigi The President]

Let's play a game. The newcomer you want the most joins the game, but one of the original 8 characters from SSB64 (so without the unlockables) has to be removed. Who are they?

Sorry Ness!

 

[BluePikmin11]

The Mimique stuff is interesting. A lot of his guesses are safe, some less so. I'm sure he has had misfires that aren't reported (though it's possible he would be self-sabotaging in order to throw people off his trail). I'll keep an eye on it.

Someone out there has the deets and is posting them online. So much for tighter leak security this time around...

I wonder how many keep up with my predictions these days.

Let us all have a topic.

Are there any speculators here in Smashboards that you pay attention to the most when it comes to newcomer predictions?

Any notable ones like TheLastJinjo, tehponycorn, Smashoperatingbuddy123?

 

[StormC]

Let's play a game. The newcomer you want the most joins the game, but one of the original 8 characters from SSB64 (so without the unlockables) has to be removed. Who are they?

I'm sorry.

Spoiler

 

[DarkFalcon]

Let's play a game. The newcomer you want the most joins the game, but one of the original 8 characters from SSB64 (so without the unlockables) has to be removed. Who are they?

Easy. Banjo replaces Yoshi. Now excuse me while I hide from the burning fire of anger that I just awakened within Zinith.

 

[Zippo]

No thoughts on Bandana Dee? oof

He's leaning towards assist trophy.

 

[Darkraid]

I think its pretty easy to guess some of the roster. If it isn't there, its probably playable.

Ike losing his Chrom colors = Chrom playable
Samus losing her Dark Samus color = Dark Samus playable

If we use this to guess:
Skull Kid AT missing
Ryu's Ken color missing
Sonic's Shadow colors missing
Black Knight not at castle siege

Also some mii costumes are hints as well

 

[blazefan519]

Let's play a game. The newcomer you want the most joins the game, but one of the original 8 characters from SSB64 (so without the unlockables) has to be removed. Who are they?

Bandana Dee, take out Luigi
But if I'm being honest, probably Samus.

He's leaning towards assist trophy.

All around me are familiar faces, worn out places, worn out places~

 

[MojoRobo]

Let's play a game. The newcomer you want the most joins the game, but one of the original 8 characters from SSB64 (so without the unlockables) has to be removed. Who are they?

Get Ness out of here.

 

[-crump-]

Funny how we’re calling Isaac, Geno, Skull Kid, and Banjo “boring” when two months ago we would have called it “delusional”.

I feel like this fanbase can’t make up it’s mind sometimes. Do we want hyped up, popularly requested characters, or do we want wacky, off the wall Sakurai picks? Because it feels like whichever one we get people will complain.

Yeah I know the fandom is not a hive mind and different people appreciate different things blah blah blah

 

[StormC]

He literally said one of the original 8, so Ness cannot go.

 

[Noipoi]

Seriously. these boring characters would be hype as hell. Incineroar less so than the others but if you're a fan of his (like me) it's still hype.
Geno, Skull Kid, Banjo, Isaac, ten years this was some kids dream roster. That kids grown up now and it's still his dream roster.
And that kids dreams are about to come true.

 

[RileyXY1]

I think its pretty easy to guess some of the roster. If it isn't there, its probably playable.

Ike losing his Chrom colors = Chrom playable
Samus losing her Dark Samus color = Dark Samus playable

If we use this to guess:
Skull Kid AT missing
Ryu's Ken color missing
Sonic's Shadow colors missing
Black Knight not at castle siege

Also some mii costumes are hints as well

Black Knight was never on Castle Siege.

 

[Luigi The President]

He's leaning towards assist trophy.

uh. what
In...in what world...
Can someone explain to me the rationale behind this? I'm kind of lost.

 

[blazefan519]

Get Ness out of here.

Ness is an unlockable lol, he doesn't count.