Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


Results are only viewable after voting.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Garteam

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 17, 2014
Messages
1,006
Location
Canada, eh?
NNID
Garteam
So are we on #TeamVerg or #Teamloz atm?
Team whichever one doesn't get Incineroar

Verge is generally the more trusted of the two and I think his record is a little stronger. That being said, not everything he's said has come to reality (Minecraft stage says hi). Loz is held to a little more scrutiny and some people think he's jumped the gun and just seeking attention at this point. That being said, I think its still important to listen to what they have to say, but still take it with a grain of salt.
 

Sharkarat

Gibdo Knight
Premium
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
950
Location
Norway
3DS FC
3754-7599-5366
I guess I just gotta meet more people? I've legit never met a member of the "casual silent majority" that's pulling for Ashley and Bandanna Dee. If they want characters like those two (throw Isaac in there too), the more into video games they are, especially into smash specifically, the more likely they are to know them, the less they are into the games, the less likely they're to know them. I mean I can only really talk from personal experience.
Researching it a little I might have been wrong about Warioware being bigger than warioland, but my general point still stand cause the warioland fanbase isn't loud either.
Like seriously you hear about Metroid all the time because that fanbase is just really noisy. But Kirby (which sell consistently better than Metroid) & Wario fans keeps more to themself so you pretty much mostly hear about them in the context of Smash.
 
Last edited:

SvartWolf

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
1,671
Location
Santiago/Chile
Big butt Snake all the way. Lots of people like the new Zamus. EVERYONE hates the new Snake.
New snake is not even anatomically consitent DX. (is probably what bugs me more)

Regarding Steve, yeah, never got the whole hate behind him... if steve is confirmed into smash, i'm really looking forward to sakurai working his magic and actually making him looking amazing. and it kinda excites me teh chance that Mojang may be inspired by this and update Steve model in minceraft to reflect this change ! DX
 

Kuon

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Messages
2,798
Location
Alaska, Germany
3DS FC
2294-4910-8117
Switch FC
SW-3044-7219-1427
#TeamVerg cause ever since Loz's source got smoked out he's been backpedaling and making an *** outta himself lul

get outta here with that trash Loz
I agree. Loz is just trying to get attention at this point and should not be taken seriously. Though honestly Vergeben shouldn't be taken very seriously either. No "leaker" thus far should be taken seriously.
 

SmashChu

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 14, 2003
Messages
5,784
Location
Tampa FL
Since the topic of sales have come up, I want to add a few things.

First, sales of a console do not correlate 1:1. People buy systems to get the games, not the other way around. Sure, more people owning a console may lead them to other games, but how much this affects sales is hard to quantify. Each consumer is different and they may have bought systems for different games so its hard to judge. For instance, if single player adventure games are selling the system then you may not see party games doing well (since the consumer base may not overlap). Just something to keep in mind.

Second, in regards to Paper Mario, there is a better way to judge quality. Type the game into EBay and see how much its selling for. Color Splash is selling for about 25 bucks. The original Paper Mario and the Thousand Year Door are selling close to $60. So which one has more value? Obviously the latter one. This is a better way to judge value than raw sales numbers.

Third, Color Splash is an awful game and it deserves a special place in Hell.
 

Garteam

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 17, 2014
Messages
1,006
Location
Canada, eh?
NNID
Garteam
He never necessarily said we'd be getting a stage, he simply mentioned they'll be Minecraft content.
Yeah, you're right. Thanks for catching me on that.

That being said, we still haven't seen Minecraft content. Granted, there's still enough time for me to eat my words on this issue.
 

IronTed

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 26, 2017
Messages
776
Location
In a dark, locked room
Vergeben has a very unreliable track record, but has been good for Smash. Maybe he's finally starting to not post every single thing he hears from people. But given how much he's gotten right about Ultimate he's worth paying attention to, if you follow rumors that is.
 
Joined
Apr 23, 2014
Messages
746
Location
Great Britain
New snake is not even anatomically consitent DX. (is probably what bugs me more)

Regarding Steve, yeah, never got the whole hate behind him... if steve is confirmed into smash, i'm really looking forward to sakurai working his magic and actually making him looking amazing. and it kinda excites me teh chance that Mojang may be inspired by this and update Steve model in minceraft to reflect this change ! DX
It’s just you get used to the way a character looks and to have it suddenly change is really upsetting me. :(
 

SvartWolf

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
1,671
Location
Santiago/Chile
Yeah, you're right. Thanks for catching me on that.

That being said, we still haven't seen Minecraft content. Granted, there's still enough time for me to eat my words on this issue.
I personally feel that the chances of getting a Creeper Assist Trophy are very high... even if microsoft doesn't get a proper rep or stage...
 
Joined
Jun 29, 2014
Messages
9,652
Location
Rogueport
Vergeben has a very unreliable track record, but has been good for Smash. Maybe he's finally starting to not post every single thing he hears from people. But given how much he's gotten right about Ultimate he's worth paying attention to, if you follow rumors that is.
I wouldn't call him "very unreliable" when he leaked all of FighterZ's Season 1 DLC, and got Soulcalibur information correct.
More just spotty.
 
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
1,820
Location
Right behind you
Researching it a little I might have been wrong about Warioware being bigger than warioland, but my general point still stand cause the warioland fanbase isn't loud either.
Like seriously you hear about Metroid all the time because that fanbase is just really noisy. But Kirby (which sell consistently better than Metroid) & Wario fans keeps more to themself so you pretty much mostly hear about them in the context of Smash.
So it's looking at sales rather than online/fanbase activity. I suoppose it makes more sense by looking at choices like them as reps of the popular series rather than being very popular themselves outside of smash. (Like I hear talk of the likes of Dixie far more than that of Ashley)
 

SmashChu

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 14, 2003
Messages
5,784
Location
Tampa FL
oh what characters did they leak?
He said Ridley and Simon would be in, no cuts and Snake and IC were coming back. There are other things he's said that have not come to fruition. The issue with him is he often ends up being wrong and has been wrong vary recently with other titles. Its why I say dont bother with him because who knows if the information he gives will even happen in the first place. If you want a good example, go see what he's said about Soul Caliber.
 
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
1,904
Verge has been correct about Smash stuff, which is the most important thing to note. Yes he's been wrong on other games but for Smash he's worth keeping an eye on since he's yet to double down on anything that ended up false.
 

praline

the white witch
Joined
Feb 16, 2014
Messages
50,725
Location
the underworld
Switch FC
6178 82674988
Common mistake my friend, no worries.
He stated "no cuts" but goes on to say Snake and IC's would be returning, implying he didn't mean everyone would return.
Honestly when I read no cuts I kinda thought he meant everyone coming back, but I guess it could have easily meant everyone from 4 reutrns lol
 

Kuon

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Messages
2,798
Location
Alaska, Germany
3DS FC
2294-4910-8117
Switch FC
SW-3044-7219-1427
I wouldn't call him "very unreliable" when he leaked all of FighterZ's Season 1 DLC, and got Soulcalibur information correct.
More just spotty.
He's human and makes mistakes just like the rest of us, but I think he does have some inside source, even if it's not always accurate
 

Sharkarat

Gibdo Knight
Premium
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
950
Location
Norway
3DS FC
3754-7599-5366
Second, in regards to Paper Mario, there is a better way to judge quality. Type the game into EBay and see how much its selling for. Color Splash is selling for about 25 bucks. The original Paper Mario and the Thousand Year Door are selling close to $60. So which one has more value? Obviously the latter one. This is a better way to judge value than raw sales numbers.

Third, Color Splash is an awful game and it deserves a special place in Hell.
Are you pulling numbers out of your ***. On my Ebay search there's like a 3$ difference between Color splash and Thousand year door
So it's looking at sales rather than online/fanbase activity. I suoppose it makes more sense by looking at choices like them as reps of the popular series rather than being very popular themselves outside of smash. (Like I hear talk of the likes of Dixie far more than that of Ashley)
Donkey kong is a much bigger series than Wario.
 
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
8,908
In regards to the "legacy" versus "fresh face" distinction among newcomers. Every Smash Bros. game since 64 has typically had a mixture of both. I define a fresh face as someone that could not have been implemented as a character true to themselves within the prior game development's cycle (so even if Rosalina and Wii Fit Trainer both technically had their games exist prior to Brawl's release they were both still "fresh faces" for Smash 4). A "legacy" newcomer is a character that has already been established for a number of a years, and could have been a newcomer candidate for the prior game technically.

For Melee its a bit tricky. Roy and Pichu are both obviously fresh faces (FE6 would not be released until March 2002, and Pokemon Gold/Silver was released in very late 1999). However, Ganondorf, Sheik, and Young Link might both count too (both were new characters made for Ocarina of Time, which was only a few months older than Smash 64). So for Melee's newcomers only two were definitely "fresh faces" with up to five of the game's 14 newcomers. The rest (Bowser, Peach, Zelda, Ice Climbers, Mewtwo, Marth, Mr. Game & Watch, Dr. Mario, Falco) were "legacy" newcomers.

With Brawl, things started to get a lot more mixed. Lucario, Lucas, Ike, Toon Link, Zero Suit Samus, and Olimar, 1/3 of the game's newcomer (6 out of 18) were "fresh faces". Of these, only Olimar had a presence in the prior Smash Bros. game. 2/3 of the roster meanwhile were characters that existed for years prior to Melee's release.

Smash 4 is where the "fresh faces" finally overcome the legacy newcomers. Who could count as a legacy newcomer this? Mega Man, Pac-Man, Ryu, Cloud, Duck Hunt, Villager, Little Mac, and Bowser Jr. Notice two things. One is that Palutena was not included despite her first game appearance being in 1987 (this is due to the fact that she more or less established herself as her own character in Uprising, as opposed to just a generic instrutor/damsel in distress), and secondly that of the eight characters, only four are actually Nintendo owned (indeed one of the complaints about Smash 4's roster was how many of the people who had waited since Brawl's release for some of the characters that failed to make it in, only Bowser Jr., Little Mac, and Villager had notably sized fanbases during the pre-Brawl era). Eight out of 21 newcomers (yes I am counting the three Mii Fighters separately). Things were very lopsided for "fresh faces" with this installment, and was the odd man out compared to prior game's in the series.

Now what about Ultimate so far? So far the only fresh face added in out of its eight newcomers is the Inkling (which happened to be the first newcomer announced in general). What is even more curious about the game's "legacy" newcomers is how a few of them did not even make a new game appearance this decade (K. Rool, Dark Samus, Richter Belmont), which is a trait normally only displayed by a Smash title's retro newcomer. Ultimate seems to be tilting into a Melee-like ratio so far for "fresh faces". This might be due to an assortment of factors such as the short amount of time between Smash 4 and Ultimate (only four years), the utilization of the ballot (of which would mostly be dominated by "legacy characters"), and possibly the fact that those four years were dominated by the sales anemic Wii U and a declining 3DS (we still will probably see someone from Pokemon Sun/Moon though).

Of the other viable fresh faces (ones that seem popular enough), two of them came into existence too late to probably be added for the base roster (ARMS character and Xenoblade 2). As it stands the only other "fresh faces" that could still be added in for the base roster (aside from the near mandatory Pokemon newcomer slot) are Elma, Octoling, a Pokemon from Sun/Moon as an echo, and possibly someone else from a recent Fire Emblem as a an echo.

A lot of the roster choices so far seem like they could please someone who was disappointed with Brawl's roster back in 2008 (Ridley, K. Rool, Dark Samus, and the Belmonts would hype a lot of pre-Brawl people, and Daisy possibly as well), with only Chrom and Inkling being unknowns to them. Put that in comparison to Smash 4 where the only big pre-Brawl names that got added in (aside from possibly the third-party newcomers with the exception of Bayonetta) were Bowser Jr., Villager, and Little Mac.

There is more to be said on the "fresh face" versus legacy newcomer debated, but this is some background pretext to be thought about for now.
 

SmashChu

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 14, 2003
Messages
5,784
Location
Tampa FL

WallyPalmer

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 29, 2018
Messages
254
Location
Little Mac's Pants
How about a game until a new major leak pops up? (I have an odd hunch we'll know everything about the game by late September and a September or October direct will confirm some big controversial leak)

You can add up to 4 new characters, literally anyone you want that has appeared in a video game before (yes, even shrek or Goku, but preferably from a Nintendo console game or handheld), but you have to axe a character from each previous SSB game.

To get your first character, you must remove someone from Smash for Wii U/3DS. That character will also no longer appear in Ultimate so choose carefully!! To get your second character, you now also have to remove a character from Brawl (and they wouldn't appear in any future games, including Ultimate!). To get your third character, go back to Melee, and if you want that final character you need to axe an original 12.

You can choose to add up to 4, but don't need to add 4. I'll go now as an example:

Character 1: Banjo-Kazooie
Character to Cut for Banjo-Kazooie (reminder, first character cut is from Wii U/3DS and is also removed from Ultimate): Dark Pit
Character 2: Doom-Guy
Character to be cut for Doom-Guy: Toon Link
Character 3: Sylux
Character to be cut for Sylux: Pichu
Character 4: N/A
Character to be cut for N/A: Not Applicable (Never want to cut an original 12 personally)

I want to see who you guys would want to add and who you would remove to get them.
Character 1: Waddle Dee
Character to Cut: Dark Pit
Character 2: Urbosa
Character to be cut for Doom-Guy: Toon Link
Character 3: Twintelle
Character to be cut for Sylux: Young Link
Character 4: Spheal
Character to be cut for N/A: Jigglypuff
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top