Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

Even though we haven't gotten a Western third-party character in Smash yet, I think we can agree that most of the Japanese third parties we have right now are FAR more iconic figures in gaming than a majority of the Western characters we've been discussing in this thread. The only exceptions might be Snake, who was added because someone had to basically beg Sakurai to make it happen, and Bayonetta, who's in solely because of the ballot.

Selecting an iconic Western third-party character out of a comparatively smaller list of options than what you see in Japan who's also recognized world-wide is going to be tricky. Not to mention the fact that any potential director for Smash will probably be Japanese, making their knowledge on Western gaming limited. I'm not saying it's never going to happen, but I can understand why the idea may have not been pushed that much in previous Smash games. At the end of the day, it's just easier and more convenient for Sakurai to look at the iconic characters who were created in his home country.

You are actually right, oh my goodness. I heard Sakurai added Jigglypuff because it was very popular in Japan and while in the Western version, eh. If it was not for Japan we would of never had Jigglypuff, so I have to agree with your statement here. Since Nintendo's main homeland is Japan, I am sure they would prefer adding Japanese third parties or characters.

 

[Lukingordex]

I remember some days ago someone made a post explaining how each 3rd Party character broke a certain "rule" the community had when it came to adding characters in smash when they were included.

Maybe the rule "no western 3rd Party characters" will be broken by the next 3rd Party we get, who knows

 

[Nonno Umby]

Even though we haven't gotten a Western third-party character in Smash yet, I think we can agree that most of the Japanese third parties we have right now are FAR more iconic figures in gaming than a majority of the Western characters we've been discussing in this thread. The only exceptions might be Snake, who was added because someone had to basically beg Sakurai to make it happen, and Bayonetta, who's in solely because of the ballot.

Selecting an iconic Western third-party character out of a comparatively smaller list of options than what you see in Japan who's also recognized world-wide is going to be tricky. Not to mention the fact that any potential director for Smash will probably be Japanese, making their knowledge on Western gaming limited. I'm not saying it's never going to happen, but I can understand why the idea may have not been pushed that much in previous Smash games. At the end of the day, it's just easier and more convenient for Sakurai to look at the iconic characters who were created in his home country.

I would argue that Snake is just as iconic as the rest. Saleswise Metal Gear sold more than Mega Man with several less games. Besides, maybe the character isn't that recognizabled due to being a realistic man, but Metal Gear as a series is extremely iconic. It founded the stealth genre, for cryibg out loud.

And let's not forget that Sonic was considered for Melee in the first place because Yuji Naka asked Sakurai, just like how Kojima did. When Brawl was in development, Naka alredy left SEGA, which probably was one of the reasons why SEGA initially denied Sakurai the rights for Sonic.

I remember some days ago someone made a post explaining how each 3rd Party character broke a certain "rule" the community had when it came to adding characters in smash when they were included.

Maybe the rule "no western 3rd Party characters" will be broken by the next 3rd Party we get, who knows

Again, for clarity sakes, I'm not making up the rule "no western TP", I even said that I can see Crash or Steve being added. I'm only stating the facts that make them generally less likely than japanese ones:
-Sakurai view of Smash as a celebration of japanese gaming.
-The language barrier and the problem of supervision.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Again, for clarity sakes, I'm not making up the rule "no western TP", I even said that I can see Crash or Steve being added. I'm only stating the facts that make them generally less likely than japanese ones:
-Sakurai view of Smash as a celebration of japanese gaming.
-The language barrier and the problem of supervision.

While I can't really counter the Sakurai point, the latter is clearly not an issue.

I mean, they helped give Shovel Knight an official amiibo for Yacht Club Games, iirc. And that's not even bringing up the whole Mario + Rabbids thing.

 

[Nonno Umby]

While I can't really counter the Sakurai point, the language barrier is clearly not an issue.

I mean, they helped give Shovel Knight an official amiibo for Yacht Club Games, iirc. And that's not even bringing up the whole Mario + Rabbids thing.

But one thing is working with a Nintendo division. The Shovel Kinght amiibo started in America, with the help of NoA. In fact it didn't come out in Japan until several months later.

And the Mario + Rabbids, while being supervisionated by Miyamoto, was also seen by NoE. And again, Miyamoto travels a lot for conferences ecc, so it wasn't much of a cost.

On the other hand, Sakurai likes to talk directly to the original character creator and to discuss how to reppresent it in Smash. He does this not only with the TP, but with all the characters. The supervisor has to see the game frequently in order to approve the portrait of the character, and they have to do it almost everytime the dev team changes an animation, a move, a voice clip ecc. This usually goes well with Sakurai because he is extremely respected by other japanese developers (he got access to Cloud, while not even Sony was capable of it for their PS All Stars), but most western developers don't really know him besides being the Smash guy, making things harder. And having to do several flights to Japan in order to do supervisions probably isn't impossible, but surely it is inconvenient.

 

[Lukingordex]

Again, for clarity sakes, I'm not making up the rule "no western TP", I even said that I can see Crash or Steve being added. I'm only stating the facts that make them generally less likely than japanese ones:
-Sakurai view of Smash as a celebration of japanese gaming.
-The language barrier and the problem of supervision.

My post wasn't specifically directed at you

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Melee Event 51 though. Giga Bowser, Ganondorf, AND Mewtwo. That fight was baller. Much better than Smash 4's. Brawl's was good though.

It should be noted that that specific event match made Giga Bowser easier to defeat. In fact, his AI in that event match is lower than that of his Adventure Mode appearance.

In the end of Melee Event Mode, you have to fight Mewtwo, Giga Bowser and Ganondorf. With multiple stocks against you I think. It is actually a lot easier than you think, I played the games. Just learn how to rack up damage and to be more safe. I got it in like a shot I think.

Yeah I've actually completed that event match myself. However, Giga Bowser was made less difficult to defeat, since he was paired with two other fighters, and their difficulty level was only set to moderate levels. In Adventure Mode, Giga Bowser is alone, and receives advantages that can lead to your own demise on the harder difficulties; this is especially notable in Very Hard, where we're talking about Shao Kahn (the Mortal Kombat villain) levels of unfairness.

Anyway, I think that if Giga Bowser returns as the true final boss in Adventure mode, he'd still be solo, and the chosen intensity affects his knockback dealt ratio. I'll probably explain this in further detail later.

 

[TheWill44]

I still think Smash Tour could be half decent if they made obvious adjustments, like adjustable AI difficulty, Removal of trophies, etc.

Wouldn’t the gust bellow item be a 0-hit KO?

Edit: Double post, my bad.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

IIRC, in his day Crash Bandicoot was the most popular foreign made game in it's day so it's got a good shot.

But what worries me is... this is what crash looks like in Japan

Spoiler: big image

 

[Opossum]

IIRC, in his day Crash Bandicoot was the most popular foreign made game in it's day so it's got a good shot.

But what worries me is... this is what crash looks like in Japan

Spoiler: big image

My only hope is that Sakurai would use Crash's western design out of respect for the character's origins. Otherwise...yeesh.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

IIRC, in his day Crash Bandicoot was the most popular foreign made game in it's day so it's got a good shot.

But what worries me is... this is what crash looks like in Japan

Spoiler: big image

Well R.O.B.'s initial costume changes between region (tan-red costume in Japan and gray in other regions) so maybe the same will happen for Crash Bandicoot? He gets both designs as Wario-style costumes, and depending on the region they'll alternate between which is the primary?

 

[Cosmic77]

But one thing is working with a Nintendo division. The Shovel Kinght amiibo started in America, with the help of NoA. In fact it didn't come out in Japan until several months later.

And the Mario + Rabbids, while being supervisionated by Miyamoto, was also seen by NoE. And again, Miyamoto travels a lot for conferences ecc, so it wasn't much of a cost.

In addition to all that, NoA is responsible for working with Activision to get Bowser and DK as featured characters in the Wii, 3DS, and Wii U versions of Skylanders Superchargers, as well as getting official Skylander/amiibo figures of the two. None of these things were released in Japan.

NoA accomplishes more than what people give it credit for.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

IIRC, in his day Crash Bandicoot was the most popular foreign made game in it's day so it's got a good shot.

But what worries me is... this is what crash looks like in Japan

Spoiler: big image

That Japanese design looks closer to the PS1 models than the Western one does.

I'd be fine with either.

 

[Deleted member]

Feels good to be back, even though it's only been 3 months.

On topic, Crash would be awesome, even if I've only played like 6 levels of the first game.

 

[UserKev]

My post was just an honest question...

I'm sorry if it sounded too agressive, that wasn't my intention

Don't worry about it.

Okay, let me just say this and get out of here. Why do y'all care? To my knowledge this is not a popularity contest. They generally earned those likes for being insightful.

Sayonara

We don't. Sometimes they can get annoying though.

Jokes on you, am here as one of the oldest members but my posts don't get liked cause I like to stir up ****.

But yeah I do get it.

Mega Mushroom 4 Smash bro

Because your like me. Or I'm like you. Your what I would consider a true smash fan. We share similar enough beliefs of what's happening to the series, what could make it better. The importance of staying to its roots.

Regarding who makes the next Smash game, I'd personally say Miyamoto would be the ideal director, with Bandai Namco returning for development.

Naturally, I would want to see Sakurai return as a consultant.

Someone I had discussion with in YouTube comments suggested Miyamoto and I was blown away. Yes! Miyamoto would be interesting. I'm all for him other than Sakurai.

 

[Deleted member]

I'd say a new director with Sakurai as a consulter would be the ideal situation because:

• Sakurai doesn't like cutting veterans, but we don't know if the hypothetical new director would share that mentality.
• Sakurai wouldn't have to cope with the stress of developing another game.
• A new director could open the door for characters Sakurai previously rejected.
• No more classic Kirby bias!!! seriously we need more Modern Kirby representation.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Because your like me. Or I'm like you. Your what I would consider a true smash fan. We share similar enough beliefs of what's happening to the series, what could make it better. The importance of staying to its roots.

Well, exactly! I actually was very much against Sonic's inclusion in Brawl, truth to be told. Smash 4 was a painful ride for me, luckily the mechanics where great and I at least got Diddy, Ike and Mewtwo in one game (which was my biggest wish). But I didn't really feel many of the newcomers, outside of Rosalina, Bowser Jr., and the Fire Emblem cast but most of all the DLC veterans. Greninja grew on me, Palutena, Villager, Little Mac and Shulk really made sense so I won't really adress them.

But yeah, it was quite a letdown especially after Brawl's many "well deserving" newcomers which where actually huge gaming icons and extremely popular Nintendo characters (plus Sonic ).

I keep telling myself the third party and "relevant" characters where so much the main focus in Smash 4 because it heavily needed the advertisement, the biggest installment being on Wii U and all which has probably been Nintendo's least succesful console in the last 2 decades. But I really fear that deep down, this is gonna be the new route of Smash Bros. down the road. In which case, we might even see the likes of Mickey Mouse, Spongebob Squarepants, Goku and Naturo in future Smash Bros. titles and them cutting huge Nintendo icons in the process.

I expect noone here to really share my sentiments regarding this, but yeah... I wish Smash Bros. could've remained a Nintendo-exclusive crossover fighter. And if it cannot be, I really hope there's gonna be another sort of Nintendo fighting game which resembles more classical fighting games or anything... *sigh* Feels bad that one of your favorite gaming franchises sells out on it's own concept so badly. This is why I was especially bitter with Cloud's reveal back when he first showed his face.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

seriously we need more Modern Kirby representation.

How could anything be further from the truth when literally all the most important Kirby characters are playable? How the heck do we "NEED" more Kirby "representation"?

We have Kirby, King Dedede, and Meta Knight. We don't need any more characters. Not unless someone the likes of Bowser Jr. or Rosalina come along, but Kirby has yet to introduce any mainstay cast members.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

How could anything be further from the truth when literally all the most important Kirby characters are playable? How the heck do we "NEED" more Kirby "representation"?

He specifically said modern Kirby representation. As in, the franchise after Sakurai stopped working on its games.

Seriously, we get next to nothing from any Kirby game not made by Sakurai. Usually just a handful of songs and some trophies, but no one cares for the latter.

I don't think we need more characters, but having a stage that isn't from Super Star would be appreciated.

 

[Deleted member]

How could anything be further from the truth when literally all the most important Kirby characters are playable. How the heck do we "NEED" more Kirby "representation"?

Representation comes in more forms than just characters.
There are 4 modern (unremixed, though it's understandable for Triple Deluxe since it just came out during Sm4sh's development time) Kirby songs and 4 trophies in Smash for Wii U, 0 for both in the 3DS version.
And both of the new Kirby stages are from older Kirby games.
I admit "need" isn't the right word, but I'd really like to see more modern Kirby songs.

Edit: 'd

 

[TheLastJinjo]

He specifically said modern Kirby representation. As in, the franchise after Sakurai stopped working on its games.

Seriously, we get next to nothing from any Kirby game not made by Sakurai. Usually just a handful of songs and some trophies, but no one cares for the latter.

I don't think we need more characters, but having a stage that isn't from Super Star would be appreciated.

Representation comes in more forms than just characters.
There are 4 modern (unremixed, though it's understandable for Triple Deluxe since it just came out during Sm4sh's development time) Kirby songs and 4 trophies in Smash for Wii U, 0 for both in the 3DS version.
And both of the new Kirby stages are from older Kirby games.
I admit "need" isn't the right word, but I'd really like to see more modern Kirby songs.

Edit: 'd

Yeah, there wasn't even a Return to Dreamland stage in Smash. Kirby does need more non character representation, I agree with that.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

With that said, if one Kirby character shows up, it has to be Bandana Dee. He's really the only major and relevant Kirby character left aside from all of the one-offs.

And even then, I wouldn't mind if he was just an Assist Trophy.

 

[Deleted member]

As far Kirby characters go, I don't think anyone is "needed" (Because no character is "needed"), but I do want Bandana Dee and Dark Matter as newcomers.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Bandana Dee is quickly becoming a mainstay. He shouldn't be ignored. Neither should other lesser known characters from big Nintendo franchises as Toad, Dixie Kong, Impa, Wolf or Slippy Toad.

These franchises have been included in Smash since the first game. There's no good reason to exclude them I feel. They are higely popular and can be made a semi-clone of excisting characters in most cases, so why the hell not?

 

[Lukingordex]

IIRC, in his day Crash Bandicoot was the most popular foreign made game in it's day so it's got a good shot.

But what worries me is... this is what crash looks like in Japan

Spoiler: big image

I don't see it as a big problem. Just make both skins available like how they did to cloud or Wario.

As a huge Crash fan I'd love to see skins for both versions of the character

 

[Pacack]

Creative director.

Oh, no, I meant the job title, Creative Director. Not just a "creative" Director. I see where the confusion was coming from now

 

[Blackwolf666]

What is everyone's opinion on edge-hogging? Was it the right choice to end it in smash 4, should it return to how it was in previous games or should it return but nerfed like it only happens when you have invincibility on the ledge?

 

[Pacack]

What is everyone's opinion on edge-hogging? Was it the right choice to end it in smash 4, should it return to how it was in previous games or should it return but nerfed like it only happens when you have invincibility on the ledge?

With respect to everyone who enjoyed the previous ledge mechanics, I think the current mechanics are far more ideal for offstage play than the past mechanics.

 

[Deleted member]

Square Enix Says Many Teams In The Company Are Looking To Develop Nintendo Switch Games https://t.co/oyy6VqC9Sy pic.twitter.com/6hAlw2MiYj

— My Nintendo News (@MyNintendoNews) February 12, 2018

With how strong Square Enix's support is to the Switch, it seems like 's chances to come back are better than we have expected.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Hax says Melee's edge is too safe. For some characters, I think that's true. I don't know how that translates into talk of SSB4's edge.

 

[Deleted member]

Wanted to bring this up since Rayman was brought up before.

Ubisoft Is The Top Third-Party Publisher On Nintendo Switch https://t.co/7TiFdupjZK pic.twitter.com/8F6o8S2rLx

— My Nintendo News (@MyNintendoNews) February 12, 2018

I feel like this helps Rayman's... or the Rabbids' (ugh) chances.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Today is the day, the day in which one shall rise and the other shall fall. Aka Metroid since that is the undisputed series where one of the most popular choices are that controversial. Your picks are Ridley, Dark Samus, Sylux, and Federation Force Soldier (Yes, I'm going there).

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Good luck.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Square Enix Says Many Teams In The Company Are Looking To Develop Nintendo Switch Games https://t.co/oyy6VqC9Sy pic.twitter.com/6hAlw2MiYj

— My Nintendo News (@MyNintendoNews) February 12, 2018

With how strong Square Enix's support is to the Switch, it seems like 's chances to come back are better than we have expected.

Wanted to bring this up since Rayman was brought up before.

Ubisoft Is The Top Third-Party Publisher On Nintendo Switch https://t.co/7TiFdupjZK pic.twitter.com/8F6o8S2rLx

— My Nintendo News (@MyNintendoNews) February 12, 2018

I feel like this helps Rayman's... or the Rabbids' (ugh) chances.

This has literally NOTHING to do with whether or not those companies (or Sakurai/Nintendo) will want/allow their characters in Super Smash Bros.

Characters don't get added for being buddy buddy with Nintendo recently. Otherwise we probably would have had Heihachi over Ryu, and Pac-Man would have his horrid modern design, which Sakurai threatened to not put Pac-Man in the game if they refused to concede on.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

For those who are interested, I did recently make a thread that contains some of my concepts for a new Adventure mode.

https://smashboards.com/threads/453066/

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Square Enix Says Many Teams In The Company Are Looking To Develop Nintendo Switch Games https://t.co/oyy6VqC9Sy pic.twitter.com/6hAlw2MiYj

— My Nintendo News (@MyNintendoNews) February 12, 2018

With how strong Square Enix's support is to the Switch, it seems like 's chances to come back are better than we have expected.

Wanted to bring this up since Rayman was brought up before.

Ubisoft Is The Top Third-Party Publisher On Nintendo Switch https://t.co/7TiFdupjZK pic.twitter.com/8F6o8S2rLx

— My Nintendo News (@MyNintendoNews) February 12, 2018

I feel like this helps Rayman's... or the Rabbids' (ugh) chances.

This has literally nothing to do with whether or not those companies (or Sakurai/Nintendo/Nintendo fans) will want/allow their characters in Super Smash Bros.

Characters don't get added for being buddy buddy with Nintendo recently. Sakurai threatened to not put Pac-Man in the game if they refused to concede on his Classic Design and chose Ryu over Heihachi for a multitude of reasons.

 

[Deleted member]

and Pac-Man would have his horrid modern design

I fail to see what this has to do with my point.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I fail to see what this has to do with my point.

I explained that.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I explained that.

No you didn't. This is what you said

This has literally nothing to do with whether or not those companies (or Sakurai/Nintendo/Nintendo fans) will want/allow their characters in Super Smash Bros.

Characters don't get added for being buddy buddy with Nintendo recently. Sakurai threatened to not put Pac-Man in the game if they refused to concede on his Classic Design and chose Ryu over Heihachi for a multitude of reasons.

None of this says anything about Smash using an older, more iconic design. Especially as you're misinformed. You're trying to say "They're good pals recently but that doesn't mean Smash used the cartoon design of Pac-Man" but that fails because it was a design from a cartoon. Smash has used a design that Pac's being using every other time he had limbs.

Oh, and Ryu wasn't chosen over Heihachi. Heihachi was considered as a Namco character before DLC was a thing, those are unrelated

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

I don't understand the obsession over having more "modern" Kirby representation. Kirby is Kirby regardless of the era, it is not like there is a quota that has to be met to bring in content from specific points in time, and this is a series that departs very little from its original formula which is why it works.
Most of current Kirby games are good because they derive heavily from Super Star, which is considered by many the definitive Kirby game. Even the title Returns to Dreamland is self explanatory in this regard, since most of the game is set on the same planet as in previous Kirby games and it plays like a spiritual successor to Super Star.

What annoys me the most is when people use this as "proof" that Sakurai hates Kirby games that he didn't work on. The guy left Hal in good terms and I believed he said something about leaving the franchise in good hands. You can clearly see that the respect is mutual because Hal borrows elements from Smash and makes the games to the standard that was established with Super Star, which was Sakurai's best Kirby game. But suddenly you do slightly less than what's unreasonably expected from you by some people and you are then labeled a hater?
And this is dangerously accurate to reality, as I saw one guy saying that Christian Whitehead hates Knuckles because he didn't make him as good as Sonic in Sonic Mania. I am not saying this is reflective of anyone here, but I don't see the need to hairsplit in regards to Kirby content when it has been represented fairly well in the last couple of Smash games. It's just a case of greediness.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't understand the obsession over having more "modern" Kirby representation.

That is all I'm gonna say.