Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Opossum]

I think the biggest issue I have with Waddle Dee seeming like a "lock" is that people claim he's been massively supported for longer than he actually has been. His support wasn't "massive" until Ultimate. It wasn't even that notable until the ballot. He was far from a huge request during the base game period for Smash 4, where he was instead considered an outsider dark horse pick.

His following only exploded after lots of other anticipated characters already got in.

...Come to think of it, it's almost directly comparable to Ashley.

 

[Over9000BPM]

well I think the smash 4 design is a misrepresentation of her earlier designs, the fact of the matter is samus' boobs have changed size all the time over the course of the series, from her super metroid design, to her prime 2 design, to her prime 3 one, to zero mission to smash 4. Samus is not defined by the size of her boobs, you're looking at this a little to deep fam.


agreed, this whole argument is dumb

I’m just really hoping for an alt skin that resembles the curvy one I’m used to at this point. That’s how this started, I was speculating about alts/skins and how I hope we haven’t seen them all and why.

Because I also need bulky jagged intimidating SR power suit. Everyone ok with me whining about not having that? :D

 

[Deleted member]

We'll get all used on ZSS's new face, you'll see.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

At least none of the faces in Ultimate are as bad as Chun Li's was during the pre-release of MvCI.

 

[Pit93]

I really can't with these ZSS posts. I'm about to main the **** out of her just to defend these sexist "Samus is not Samus without giant ****" and "If they don't make her pretty again I'm not playing her".

Why should we stay silent if a character seems worse compared to her previous forms? ô.o
She doesn't resemble any iteration from her previous games, so it's misrepresenting and a lot of us don't like that.

Like, do you guys realize there are women on this board too and that these comments are suuuupppper degrading?

No, I don't, because we're talking about Samus and not them. At least I don't judge people for their preferences.

 

[Deleted member]

At least none of the faces in Ultimate are as bad as Chun Li's was during the pre-release of MvCI.

Suddenly Chun-Li gets in with her beta MvCI model.

 

[Untouch]

At this point I don't think any characters are a lock, even shadow, everything just gives me flashbacks to pre-release hype for Smash 4 where everyone was totally adamant that Chorus Kids were 100% in and everything pointed towards it.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

At least none of the faces in Ultimate are as bad as Chun Li's was during the pre-release of MvCI.

Pfff, try Dante’s pre-release MvCI face, it was even a meme at one point

 

[Pakky]

Suddenly Chun-Li gets in with her beta MvCI model.

Don't please...

I do legit feel bad for MvCI, then Felicia got taken out. Is she important? No, but its weird to see someone be there for the longest and just vanish. regardless of design.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

So I saw a comment about Simon's picture and Young Link and decided to check. Here I compare in my oppinion the worst Young Link image on his page.

It does look a lot better, but honestly it doesn't look much better than some of the better pictures on YL's pages. But it does look like the models are work in progress which is a relief.

 

[IronTed]

At this point I don't think any characters are a lock, even shadow, everything just gives me flashbacks to pre-release hype for Smash 4 where everyone was totally adamant that Chorus Kids were 100% in and everything pointed towards it.

That's a pretty disingenuous comparison. One was only expected due to a leak/rumor, the other is expected due to circumstances that have demonstrated other characters to be playable.

 

[Cosmic77]

Rayman I feel is a lock (Model prepped from rigging in the game already at a time where he's not even a 3D model in his own games, hasn't been one since the early/mid 00s)

Geno is a lock

Isaac at this point is a lock

BWD feels like a lock

Inceneroar is a lock.

I believe the Skull Kid stuff.

The closest thing to a lock for me is a Gen 7 Pokemon, and even then, I have some doubts.

There are a lot of popular characters left who could get in Smash, but once you list those characters together and realize how close we are to release, things get a little less clear. "How many unique newcomers are left?" "Are there any suprise characters?" "Which of these characters would be prioritized over the others?"

The point I'm trying to get at is that we should be careful. People think we're getting hints of Skull Kid, but then there's also people who think we're getting hints of Geno, and Issac, and a Rhythm Heaven character, and Elma, and BWD, and so on. Obviously not all of these characters are getting in, so someone is gonna end up getting their feelings hurt when their "hints" amount to nothing and all those theories come crashing down on them.

We may have gotten Ridley and K. Rool, but always keep your expectations low. You have nothing to lose by doing so.

 

[ArkhaosZero]

Isaac at this point is a lock (The Tweet)

I missed this. Care to fill me in?

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I'm really starting to drink the kool-aid in thinking Shantae has a big shot at being on the roster.

That quote from the DLC keeps bugging me.

It could be nothing, but man, even if she's an assist trophy that'd be rad.

I will say from playing both, she seems a little more robust than Shovel Knight, just due to having more games than him.


Rayman I feel is a lock (Model prepped from rigging in the game already at a time where he's not even a 3D model in his own games, hasn't been one since the early/mid 00s)

Geno is a lock (Mii costume with a splash screen? Yeah he's in among other reasons)

Isaac at this point is a lock (The Tweet)

BWD feels like a lock

Inceneroar is a lock.

I believe the Skull Kid stuff.

Banjo & Kazooie would be a great last big blow out for the base roaster or DLC because they mean so much, more than even Crash I think. Due to, them seemingly, as far as know having one of if not the first massively open 3D environment that was bigger than Mario 64 and practically seamless. This lead to games like GTA and the like being developed in the future.

let's not get ahead of ourselves, the only characters I would even consider calling a lock at this point are shadow and bandana dee, cause it just feels like they have everything going for them and I'll be genuinely shocked if they aren't in

 

[Pakky]

The closest thing to a lock is a Gen 7 Pokemon, and even then, I have some doubts.

There are a lot of popular characters left who could get in Smash, but once you list those characters together and realize how close we are to release, things get a little less clear. "How many unique newcomers are left?" "Are there any suprise characters?" "Which of these characters would be prioritized over the others?"

The point I'm trying to get at is that we should be careful. People think we're getting hints of Skull Kid, but then there's also people who think we're getting hints of Geno, and Issac, and a Rhythm Heaven character, and Elma, and BWD, and so on. Obviously not all of these characters are getting in, so someone is gonna end up getting their feelings hurt when their "hints" amount to nothing and all those theories come crashing down on them.

We may have gotten Ridley and K. Rool, but always keep your expectations low. You have nothing to lose by doing so.

Honestly this will never be me personally. BWD is a big pick for me but I got back to back. I can't be mad.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Bandana Dee and Isaac are difficult for me to judge, because although they fit the fanservice criteria they only just about do so. For every character reveal that isn't them I feel like they become more and more unlikely, I'm kinda 50/50 on them atm.

Isabelle and Shadow are the closest to guaranteed imo, but only as echoes. Ken and Geno are also very likely, but not locks either. Everyone else is still a bit up in the air, Skull Kid could happen, but all of the theories could also turn out to be complete bogus, while Incineroar still has competition from other Gen 7 Pokémon.

 

[Untouch]

That's a pretty disingenuous comparison. One was only expected due to a leak/rumor, the other is expected due to circumstances that have demonstrated other characters to be playable.

It wasn't just the leak that gave credence to Chorus Kids, they had an enemy in Smash Run too.

 

[IronTed]

The closest thing to a lock for me is a Gen 7 Pokemon, and even then, I have some doubts.

There are a lot of popular characters left who could get in Smash, but once you list those characters together and realize how close we are to release, things get a little less clear. "How many unique newcomers are left?" "Are there any suprise characters?" "Which of these characters would be prioritized over the others?"

The point I'm trying to get at is that we should be careful. People think we're getting hints of Skull Kid, but then there's also people who think we're getting hints of Geno, and Issac, and a Rhythm Heaven character, and Elma, and BWD, and so on. Obviously not all of these characters are getting in, so someone is gonna end up getting their feelings hurt when their "hints" amount to nothing and all those theories come crashing down on them.

We may have gotten Ridley and K. Rool, but always keep your expectations low. You have nothing to lose by doing so.

As someone who partially expects Skull Kid, I find the "hints" to be absurd. Because there was a couch with a certain color pattern behind him means he's automatically teasing someone? People should learn from previous games, don't read too deep into these things, the Ridley fanbase in particular knows this too well.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Bandana Dee and Isaac are difficult for me to judge, because although they fit the fanservice criteria they only just about do so. For every character reveal that isn't them I feel like they become more and more unlikely, I'm kinda 50/50 on them atm.

Isabelle and Shadow are the closest to guaranteed imo, but only as echoes. Ken and Geno are also very likely, but not locks either. Everyone else is still a bit up in the air, Skull Kid could happen but the theories could all crash down, while Incineroar still has competition from other Gen 7 Pokémon.

Bandana Dee is still definitely a massive possibility, he's not an assist trophy, in fact there's a different kirby assist, and he's not part of dedede's final smash. He undoubtably scored highly on the ballot, idk to me it's just hard to imagine him not being in

 

[P.Kat]

Marth finally gets more alts...but we still need more Lyns

Yeah where's our green-haired fighters they need love too despite blue being my favorite color.

 

[Deleted member]

Isaac is only fanservice if he has his beard

 

[IronTed]

It wasn't just the leak that gave credence to Chorus Kids, they had an enemy in Smash Run too.

Still not a comparable scenario as at best that would hint at a plethora of characters, not a specific one like the other case. And even then that doesn't even confirm a character to begin with (I'm aware I say this in retrospect, but it really was the leak that put them over the top).

Edit: But on the flipside, I certainly agree the position that we should limit the amount of characters we tout as locks. It's both safe and avoids being pretentious.

 

[Deleted member]

Isabelle is not going to be an Echo because her being one would imply she was an afterthought, which I really doubt when she's the most popular and prominent AC character there is.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Bandana Dee is still definitely a massive possibility, he's not an assist trophy, in fact there's a different kirby assist, and he's not part of dedede's final smash. He undoubtably scored highly on the ballot, idk to me it's just hard to imagine him not being in

Yeah, I still have him on my prediction roster too, so I'm definitely not counting him out, but at the same time I just can't feel completely sure that he's in. Might be because I tend to be more cautious about characters I want, but I can see a scenario where he's still not in the game in a prominent role, which would at least open up the possibility of him being DLC. Hopefully his huge popularity in Japan will have been enough to put him up there with other fan favorites.

Isabelle is not going to be an Echo because her being one would imply she was an afterthought, which I really doubt when she's the most popular and prominent AC character there is.

I'm not sure Echoes are last minute additions like oldschool clones used to be, at least not all of them are, Sakurai mentioning that some of Simon's moves were derived from Richter at least seems to imply as much, not least to mention the amount of Echoes we're getting too, some of them are even 3rd parties. I'm positive that the concept of Echo Fighters was drawn up in the initial plans and not just something they came up with along the way at least, and in that case it'd make sense for them to have put some of them on the initial roster.

 

[Cosmic77]

Isabelle is not going to be an Echo because her being one would imply she was an afterthought, which I really doubt when she's the most popular and prominent AC character there is.

Being an Echo doesn't necessarily mean you're an afterthought. It's possible that Sakurai may have thought popular characters such as Isabelle, Daisy, and Chrom didn't offer as much as his other options, so an Echo would be the next best thing.

Either copy them from an existing character or leave them out entirely.

 

[P.Kat]

Mostly everyone thinks Ken is gonna be an echo of Ryu, but I think Sakura Kasugano has just as much as, or even better chance than Ken. What could more endearing than a upcoming Martial Artist joining their number one idol, and inspiration to Smash in order to become stronger. Plus she is the #1 popular street fighter character according to the official Capcom popularity poll.

 

[Deleted member]

Mostly everyone thinks Ken is gonna be an echo of Ryu, but I think Sakura Kasugano has just as much as, or even better chance than Ken. What could more endearing than a upcoming Martial Artist joining their number one idol, and inspiration to Smash in order to become stronger. Plus she is the #1 popular street fighter character according to the official Capcom popularity poll.

But Ryu's Dan costume was removed. That means Dan is going to be Ryu's echo based on the patterns™

 

[RoysOurBoy]

Isabelle is not going to be an Echo because her being one would imply she was an afterthought, which I really doubt when she's the most popular and prominent AC character there is.

Something we don’t know about Ultimate’s roster is if echoes were planned from the beginning or not. It previous iterations, clone characters were filler put in at the end, but with the whole new label of echo fighters I wouldn’t be shocked if echoes were planned from the beginning of development this time.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Mostly everyone thinks Ken is gonna be an echo of Ryu, but I think Sakura Kasugano has just as much as, or even better chance than Ken. What could more endearing than a upcoming Martial Artist joining their number one idol, and inspiration to Smash in order to become stronger. Plus she is the #1 popular street fighter character according to the official Capcom popularity poll.

But Ken is like one of gaming's most iconic blondes ever?

Not to mention he's the original echo fighter.

If it ain't Ken i'm sure as heck going to be surprised.

 

[Flynn__]

In the topic of the uglier faces in Ultimate than in 4, y'all should have in mind that you are comparing a finished, released game with a game still in development. I mean, all oldcomers had to be ready for the "Everyone is here!!" gimmick in E3, so it's possible that some characters had to be rushed to appear in the trailer (Wolf is an obvious example of this). I'm pretty sure that some characters are going to receive an overhaul.

 

[Pacman High Tier]

Ken feels like a lock. It's so obvious! He is the original fighting game clone. If we didn't get him in any capacity it would surprise me more than if he did get in. I would put him up there with a Pokemon rep as "things that will 100% happen".

 

[Schnee117]

I do legit feel bad for MvCI, then Felicia got taken out. Is she important? No, but its weird to see someone be there for the longest and just vanish. regardless of design.

Should have pulled an Akuma and gone to a different series.

 

[Booper Blooper]

I'm really starting to drink the kool-aid in thinking Shantae has a big shot at being on the roster.

That quote from the DLC keeps bugging me.

It could be nothing, but man, even if she's an assist trophy that'd be rad.

I will say from playing both, she seems a little more robust than Shovel Knight, just due to having more games than him.

I really hope you're right, and with the way Wayforward pushed during the ballot, I still have hope even if it's just an assist trophy, but in the back of my mind there's this nagging little voice that says if there was more indie representation, especially a character, saving the Shovel Knight trophy for that reveal would have made a lot of sense. Of course, that's just the doubt getting to me, but I can't shake it.

 

[cmbsfm]

But Ken is like one of gaming's most iconic blondes ever?

Not to mention he's the original echo fighter.

If it ain't Ken i'm sure as heck going to be surprised.

I agree. If it’s not Ken, it’ll be Akuma.

 

[Darkraid]

I missed this. Care to fill me in?

Sakurai posted this which is an Isaac tease

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I can’t really claim anyone’s a lock. Smash always subverts my expectations.

After the March announcement, I thought that Takamaru was the single most likely character since Little Mac was decently region-specific and got the promotion from Brawl to 4, and Sakurai admitted he liked Tak. K. Rool and Ridley probably got a lot of noise on the ballot, but were still western-focused and forgotten/explicitly stated to be impossible.

Before the last direct, I only considered Simon a lock because his music was leaked. K. Rool, even if he was in, would not be shown so soon after Ridley. I considered Ashley the definite lock and Isabelle very likely as an echo as well. Also, we’d never get a second rep from a new third party series.

Well...

 

[IronTed]

Apologies for my ignorance, but in what way is that a tease?

 

[Deleted member]

Apologies for my ignorance, but in what way is that a tease?

The camera angle is similar to the angles in Camelot RPGs, including Golden Sun.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Nindies Direct tomorrow so let's see if the Switch can keep up the momentum.

Question is, what Indie games are still left to be released on Switch? Especially since it took over the Vita and Steam's niches.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Should have pulled an Akuma and gone to a different series.

Speaking of Akuma, I'm going laugh like a hyena if he somehow apparear in Ultimate as Ryu echo fighter, 'cuz The Keef Crew video on MvC:I not getting at EVO will be even funnier.