Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[TheLastJinjo]

The main problem with Ridley is not so much his size, but more the length of his wings.

When Sakurai said that Ridley as a playable character wouldn't be Ridley anymore. He wasn't just talking about his size. The fact that he can't fly around freely and be easily grabbed by characters was another thing he brought up.

I suppose technically, but is anyone really going to point at Mario and say he's an antagonist?

Also, as noted above, that Donkey Kong is canonically not the same as the one in the arcade game.

That's just a stupid joke by Rare that was never meant to be taken seriously. Nintendo clearly acknowledges him as the same Donkey Kong from the Arcade.

And please don't get the idea I want to have an argument about this.

 

[Opossum]

I suppose technically, but is anyone really going to point at Mario and say he's an antagonist?

Also, as noted above, that Donkey Kong is canonically not the same as the one in the arcade game.

The thing is, what determines a protagonist from an antagonist is whose viewpoint the audience sees the story from. In DK Junior, because you play as DK Jr, Mario is definitely the antagonist.

It's not something you can say over all like hero or villain, because protagonist vs antagonist often varies between works.

 

[Pacack]

The thing is, what determines a protagonist from an antagonist is whose viewpoint the audience sees the story from. In DK Junior, because you play as DK Jr, Mario is definitely the antagonist.

It's not something you can say over all like hero or villain, because protagonist vs antagonist often varies between works.

That's a very fair point.

I will concede that those characters have all been antagonists in the past, but I don't think the moniker of "antagonist" is as useful as "villain" for the purposes of Smash Bros.

I would argue that the following are true villains:

The following are debatable:

The following are a stretch:

 

[TheLastJinjo]

That's a very fair point.

I will concede that those characters have all been antagonists in the past, but I don't think the moniker of "antagonist" is as useful as "villain" for the purposes of Smash Bros.

I would argue that the following are true villains:

The following are debatable:

The following are a stretch:

We're not talking about villains. So I don't know why you're telling me this.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I would argue that the following are true villains:

The following are debatable:

The following are a stretch:

Wolf isn't really s villain though. He's a mercenary who follows people who can give him a good pay. He'd be debatable.

Wario started off as a villain in Super Mario Land 2. If you count Dedede as a true villain even though he's helped Kirby many times, then Wario should be there too.

Dark Pit is a stretch. He's more of a rival than an actual villain.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Didn't King Dedede switch sides anyway, and often is doing stuff to save the world? He's questionable. It's really mainly the anime where he's a villain.

I thought Wolf switched sides since 64? Then again, the reboot happened, so...

Rest aren't villains in the truest sense, yeah.

 

[Pacack]

We're not talking about villains. So I don't know why you're telling me this.

I will concede that those characters have all been antagonists in the past, but I don't think the moniker of "antagonist" is as useful as "villain" for the purposes of Smash Bros.

It's not really directed at you. I'm just making the statement that the common complaint of lack of antagonists tends to be referring to true villains more often than not.

I'm not trying to sound antagonistic, by the way. You had a completely fair point.

Wolf isn't really s villain though. He's a mercenary who follows people who can give him a good pay. He'd be debatable.

Wario started off as a villain in Super Mario Land 2. If you count Dedede as a true villain even though he's helped Kirby many times, then Wario should be there too.

Dark Pit is a stretch. He's more of a rival than an actual villain.

Didn't King Dedede switch sides anyway, and often is doing stuff to save the world? He's questionable. It's really mainly the anime where he's a villain.

I thought Wolf switched sides since 64? Then again, the reboot happened, so...

Rest aren't villains in the truest sense, yeah.

Villains:

Debatable:

A Stretch:

A Huge Stretch:


Better?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Whatever. I said they were antagonists. Not villains.

 

[Opossum]

Didn't King Dedede switch sides anyway, and often is doing stuff to save the world? He's questionable. It's really mainly the anime where he's a villain.

I thought Wolf switched sides since 64? Then again, the reboot happened, so...

Rest aren't villains in the truest sense, yeah.

No one said they were villains though.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Villains:

Debatable:

A Stretch:

A Huge Stretch:


Better?

Much better. Also merged your two posts. That was a lot to quote at once, heh.

I'd like more villains into Smash too, though. >.<

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

That was a lot to quote at once, heh.

I think you forgot a "]" somewhere...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I think you forgot a "]" somewhere...

...Weird. I simply posted the quote button as normal. And then replied.

Thanks for saying something. Could be an error in the forums.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

?

Why did you quote a post I made about Rayman...

Then edit my text to make it about antagonists?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Let's see what current series have and don't have some kind of Antagonist (Ignoring those that went to star in own games)

w/
w/
w/
w/
w/
w/

Mario Sub-Series
Outside the big ape himself, King K. Rool's been a popular fan choice for ages
Shares his baddies with Mario
Captain Syrup maybe but you'd be hard pressed to make a full moveset

Series with multiple characters already

Has a few good choices even if the main one's absence had gone memetic.
Not sure who could be, outside of The Masked Man
Maybe we've got enough Blue haired protagonists. And White Haired ones too. (Pictured: Chopped liver)

Single Character series with options

I think we all lost hope of another F-Zero Racer a while ago but has a lot of choice in anycase (Samurai Goroh, Pico, Black Shadow ect.)
[Tom Nook Joke]
Any of the opponents could work as Balrog/M.Bison Style fighters
Possible but I think one of the protags from later games would come first

No hope nellies


3rd parties

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Any of the opponents could work as Balrog/M.Bison Style fighters

If you want a Balrog-style fighter, Mr. Sandman would honestly work best.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'd still love another Punch-Out!! character to be King Hippo. Something about him screams awesome.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

I'm back and ready to start the Legend of Zelda as far as options. I'm going to make this a little harder having the fan favorites altogether. Your picks are between Skull Kid, Midna, Impa, and Ghirahim.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I can already tell there will be "This is evil, you are forcing me to choose between my two favorite characters?". There's got to be a challenge after all.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm back and ready to start the Legend of Zelda as far as options. I'm going to make this a little harder having the fan favorites altogether. Your picks are between Skull Kid, Midna, Impa, and Ghirahim.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I can already tell there will be "This is evil, you are forcing me to choose between my two favorite characters?". There's got to be a challenge after all.

Among that list is solely Impa for me. Still would prefer Ganon and Tingle first, but eh.

 

[Pacack]

Among that list is solely Impa for me. Still would prefer Ganon and Tingle first, but eh.

Impa would also be my first choice in that list, seeing as Ganon isn't there.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

If Tetra's not an option, then my first choice would be Impa as well.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

If you want a Balrog-style fighter, Mr. Sandman would honestly work best.

Or Mike Tyson himself. But that'd be a whole new can of legal worms for a celebrity endorsement that's not worth that much these days.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Maybe it's just me but I'd rather see Midna make it to the roster than the others.

Skull Kid and Impa are definitely more likely but I like Midna more. Plus that hair would make for a unique moveset (unless Dixie Kong makes the roster).

 

[Deleted member]

I'm back and ready to start the Legend of Zelda as far as options. I'm going to make this a little harder having the fan favorites altogether. Your picks are between Skull Kid, Midna, Impa, and Ghirahim.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I can already tell there will be "This is evil, you are forcing me to choose between my two favorite characters?". There's got to be a challenge after all.

I, a 56-year-old female Smasher, am up for this challenge. I would of loved to see Toon Zelda as a newcomer myself, but one can always dream. Sa, tsuite wa...Ghirahim is my choice. If can get upgraded from Assist Trophy to playable character, so can he. Those attacks he does...teleporting could be his up-special, the throwing knives could be neutral special. The one where he dashes at you is a good candidate for a dash attack. Finally, the attack that he does up close could be his forward smash.

Aside from that, Smash can stand a couple more antagonistic fighters.

Sayonara

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I, a 56-year-old female Smasher, am up for this challenge. I would of loved to see Toon Zelda as a newcomer myself, but one can always dream. Sa, tsuite wa...Ghirahim is my choice. If can get upgraded from Assist Trophy to playable character, so can he. Those attacks he does...teleporting could be his up-special, the throwing knives could be neutral special. The one where he dashes at you is a good candidate for a dash attack. Finally, the attack that he does up close could be his forward smash.

Aside from that, Smash can stand a couple more antagonistic fighters.

Sayonara

I don't mean to come off as rude, but do you need to throw in the fact you are apparently a 56-year-old woman in every post you make?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Seeing you guys vote for Impa makes my heart fill with joy.

Signed, a 27 year old male white Rastafarian from Europe with a 4 year old .

 

[Hubba_Wubba]

Impa's skins will be cool too, heres some ideas:
Hyrule Warriors Impa - Default
Green
Red
Blue
Yellow
Skyward Sword Costume + 2 extra color variations
Ocarina of Time costume + 2 extra color variations

 

[UserKev]

Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr. (And Mario VS Donkey Kong)

I still wouldn't count them. They were heroes longer than they were bad guys.

 

[Hubba_Wubba]

I still wouldn't count them. They were heroes longer than they were bad guys.

They really are good people, Dk and DK. JR
DK. JR went on a quest to save his father from the zoo Mario was keepign him captive.
DK is just a father trying to protect his friends and family, and DK. JR is just a child.

 

[Opossum]

I still wouldn't count them. They were heroes longer than they were bad guys.

There's a difference between an antagonist and a villain. That's what they were getting at.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't mean to come off as rude, but do you need to throw in the fact you are apparently a 56-year-old woman in every post you make?

You could of approached me in a better way. If y'all want me to stop with that, then I shall stop. Everyone knows I am the oldest user on these forums thus far by now anyway. It is a habit I have developed since I have been on these forums.

Sayonara

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

You could of approached me in a better way. If y'all want me to stop with that, then I shall stop. Everyone knows I am the oldest user on these forums thus far by now anyway. It is a habit I have developed since I have been on these forums.

Sayonara

Well like I said I didn't mean for that comment to come off as me rudely calling you out on it. Apologies if I didn't make that clear enough.

 

[Meshmaster101]

Hypothetical scenario, say every character got their own victory theme (remix of usual series theme or unique) who you have with what theme?

Just to go over the Mario Cast

Keep
Remixed Snippet from https://youtu.be/OgdoI0lUYDw
Super Mario 64 Star Get music
Keep
Dr Mario (the game) has a victory theme but I'd go for a remix of the iconic Fever
Keep
Metal Mix of the NSMB level clear theme
Metal Mix of SMB3's level clear theme

Remix of the Original Victory Music from Donkey Kong Arcade
Keep

&Keep

i think bowser's should be more something like this: https://youtu.be/wGsMkHcCegE?t=6

 

[Cosmic77]

All's been said and done, but I'm going to jump in on the conversation anyway.

are the only true villains here. These guys are almost always depicted as "the bad guys" and usually don't have a positive impact on the game's protagonist.

are all considered rivals or anti-heroes. While none are necessarily good, they aren't villains either, as all have either played the role as the main protagonist or defied a game's antagonist at least once. In addition, if any of these characters have taken on a role as a major antagonist before, their motives were not nearly as evil as other villains in franchise (Wario hijacked a castle and Dedede stole food).

is a bit weird to categorize. While he was the main antagonist in the first Pokémon movie, he changed and became a supporting character in future films. In the games however, he has never been directly shown to be evil, only aggressive and uncaring. The closest he's ever been to being evil is his role as one of the Pokémon Giovanni summon in battle, and that's not necessarily evidence that Mewtwo himself is bad.

have been an antagonist before, but neither are close to being villains. Almost every game they appear in depicts them as good guys with good motives.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Nintendo had the rights to Diddy well before Brawl was made.

He wasn't third-party at all by that point.

Read the post again, I was referring to the fact that he was made by a non-Japanese company. It has nothing to do with him being third party.

Are you obliged to always act like a jerk?

It's not my fault you guys are mostly over-sensitive children who can't take a joke

You can dish it out but you can't take it.

 

[Hubba_Wubba]

On another note, heres what i HOPE the final roster is going to look like.
It was confirmed that the next SSB game will have the DLC Added to the vanilla game.
So heres what i think will be the final roster.
Mario Roster:
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Wario
Yoshi
Rosalina & Luma
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
Dixie Kong
Bowser JR.
Geno
Zelda Roster:
Link
Toon Link
Zelda
Toon Zelda + Tetra
Ganondorf
Impa
Sheik
Metroid Roster:
Samus
Zero Suit Samus
(Maybe theres NEW character coming in MP:4 that we dont know)
Pokemon roster:
Pikachu
Lucario
Greninja
Charizard
Blastoise
Ivysaur
Blaziken
Mother Roster:
Ness
Lucas
Claus
Poo
Kumatora
Duster
Star Fox Roster:
Fox
Falco
Wolf
Krystal
Fire Emblem Roster:
Lucina
Robin
Marth
Roy
Chrom
Ike
Tharja
Cordelia
Azura
Returning DLC characters:
Bayonetta
Corrin
Cloud
Ryu

 

[Lukingordex]

On another note, heres what i HOPE the final roster is going to look like.
It was confirmed that the next SSB game will have the DLC Added to the vanilla game.
So heres what i think will be the final roster.
Mario Roster:
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Wario
Yoshi
Rosalina & Luma
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
Dixie Kong
Bowser JR.
Geno
Zelda Roster:
Link
Toon Link
Zelda
Toon Zelda + Tetra
Ganondorf
Impa
Sheik
Metroid Roster:
Samus
Zero Suit Samus
(Maybe theres NEW character coming in MP:4 that we dont know)
Pokemon roster:
Pikachu
Lucario
Greninja
Charizard
Blastoise
Ivysaur
Blaziken
Mother Roster:
Ness
Lucas
Claus
Poo
Kumatora
Duster
Star Fox Roster:
Fox
Falco
Wolf
Krystal
Fire Emblem Roster:
Lucina
Robin
Marth
Roy
Chrom
Ike
Tharja
Cordelia
Azura
Returning DLC characters:
Bayonetta
Corrin
Cloud
Ryu

Wait is this what you hope for or what you think will happen? You didn't make it very clear.

Also I suggest you put the series names in bold at least, in order to make your post easier to read

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Read the post again, I was referring to the fact that he was made by a non-Japanese company. It has nothing to do with him being third party.

Yes, but the guy specifically said non-Japanese third party characters:

Call me irrational, but I don't wanna see any non Japanese third parties. It just feels out of place for me.

Diddy Kong, nor anything in the Donkey Kong franchise, is not a third party character. They may have been CREATED by a non-Japanese third party [Rare], sure, but Nintendo still owns the rights to those characters.

 

[Cosmic77]

It's not my fault you guys are mostly over-sensitive children who can't take a joke

You can dish it out but you can't take it.

Y'know, it's just as childish to call everyone "over-sensitive children who can't take a joke".

Just sayin'.

On another note, heres what i HOPE the final roster is going to look like.
It was confirmed that the next SSB game will have the DLC Added to the vanilla game.
So heres what i think will be the final roster.
Mario Roster:
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Wario
Yoshi
Rosalina & Luma
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
Dixie Kong
Bowser JR.
Geno
Zelda Roster:
Link
Toon Link
Zelda
Toon Zelda + Tetra
Ganondorf
Impa
Sheik
Metroid Roster:
Samus
Zero Suit Samus
(Maybe theres NEW character coming in MP:4 that we dont know)
Pokemon roster:
Pikachu
Lucario
Greninja
Charizard
Blastoise
Ivysaur
Blaziken
Mother Roster:
Ness
Lucas
Claus
Poo
Kumatora
Duster
Star Fox Roster:
Fox
Falco
Wolf
Krystal
Fire Emblem Roster:
Lucina
Robin
Marth
Roy
Chrom
Ike
Tharja
Cordelia
Azura
Returning DLC characters:
Bayonetta
Corrin
Cloud
Ryu

Geez Louise, that is a very long list. Don't agree with every addition (nine FE characters!?), but I see a few good choices here and there. Glad to see Wolf and Ivysaur return.

 

[Hubba_Wubba]

yeah, i just like alot of FE characters ;-;
Also, thats a list i HOPE i want. and i'l put bold letters on them next time to make it easier, thanks for letting me know

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Read the post again, I was referring to the fact that he was made by a non-Japanese company. It has nothing to do with him being third party.

I know what you were referring to. What I don't understand is why you brought that up, because the original post you replied to does very much have something to do with third-parties.

It wasn't necessary to point that out to Jinjo when he was saying he didn't want any non-Japanese third-parties, specifically. Not any non-Japanese characters in general.