Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Al-kīmiyā']

Since people are talking about Ridley, here's why I don't think he should be in: he almost always has unlimited flight. It's a pretty key aspect of the character. I don't think characters should be added if they have to be fundamentally changed to be balanced.

 

[Cosmic77]

Since people are talking about Ridley, here's why I don't think he should be in: he almost always has unlimited flight. It's a pretty key aspect of the character. I don't think characters should be added if they have to be fundamentally changed to be balanced.

I want you to read that last sentence, then think of Meta Knight.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I've watched the videos of Meta Knight appearances in Kirby games. The only games in which I could see it being argued that he has unlimited flight are Epic Yarn, Mass Attack (which are dubious, one being like a shmup and the other a turn-based battle with him possibly floating slightly above the ground), all of which came out after Brawl.

There are also his playable appearances, but presumably whatever keeps Kirby from flying indefinitely in Smash applies here.

 

[The Smash Nerd II.0.]

Not to mention the whole Mario + Rabbids thing. Nintendo must trust them a lot to let them play around with their biggest IP.

That does not count because Rayman is not in that game.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The main problem with Ridley is not so much his size, but more the length of his wings.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

That does not count because Raymsn is not in that game.

It very much counts since it's still Ubisoft.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Hypothetical scenario, say every character got their own victory theme (remix of usual series theme or unique) who you have with what theme?

Just to go over the Mario Cast

Keep
Remixed Snippet from https://youtu.be/OgdoI0lUYDw
Super Mario 64 Star Get music
Keep
Dr Mario (the game) has a victory theme but I'd go for a remix of the iconic Fever
Keep
Metal Mix of the NSMB level clear theme
Metal Mix of SMB3's level clear theme

Remix of the Original Victory Music from Donkey Kong Arcade
Keep

&Keep

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Since people are talking about Ridley, here's why I don't think he should be in: he almost always has unlimited flight. It's a pretty key aspect of the character. I don't think characters should be added if they have to be fundamentally changed to be balanced.

That's ironic to me for a few reasons. For starters, Ridley's Prime fights are kind of the opposite, you burn off his wings in Prime 1, his Meta Ridley fight in Prime 3 is a dogfight which he could avoid if he decided to just leave and his Omega Ridley fight has him barely fight in the air. Also, Bowser Jr rides the Koopa Clown Car which for some reason can't fly indefinitely like in every other appearance it made. Or what about Samus being able to run while shooting or aiming her shots? Ridley's wings are a problem, but it isn't this, it's his awkward proportions due to not yet having a design that works well with wing span and overall size

 

[Deleted member]

Hypothetical scenario, say every character got their own victory theme (remix of usual series theme or unique) who you have with what theme?

Just to go over the Mario Cast

Keep
Remixed Snippet from https://youtu.be/OgdoI0lUYDw
Super Mario 64 Star Get music
Keep
Dr Mario (the game) has a victory theme but I'd go for a remix of the iconic Fever
Keep
Metal Mix of the NSMB level clear theme
Metal Mix of SMB3's level clear theme

Remix of the Original Victory Music from Donkey Kong Arcade
Keep

&Keep

I think all should be "keep". Luigi having his own independent theme is just weird and he is more known for being in the Mario series. While the Bowser Jr and Koopalings one would be a creative option, I think it is just best to leave them the same as Bowser's victory theme. They are just too related. The two I missed ( DK and Dr. Mario ) are all good points, but I think it is just best to stick with the victory theme we have in Smash 4. Then again, we could use a change from Brawl's victory themes.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I think all should be "keep". Luigi having his own independent theme is just weird and he is more known for being in the Mario series. While the Bowser Jr and Koopalings one would be a creative option, I think it is just best to leave them the same as Bowser's victory theme. They are just too related. The two I missed ( DK and Dr. Mario ) are all good points, but I think it is just best to stick with the victory theme we have in Smash 4. Then again, we could use a change from Brawl's victory themes.

Honestly, characters having different themes would be really neat.

It'd give the game more personality.

 

[Blue_Sword_Edge]

Hypothetical scenario, say every character got their own victory theme (remix of usual series theme or unique) who you have with what theme?

Just to go over the Mario Cast

Keep
Remixed Snippet from https://youtu.be/OgdoI0lUYDw
Super Mario 64 Star Get music
Keep
Dr Mario (the game) has a victory theme but I'd go for a remix of the iconic Fever
Keep
Metal Mix of the NSMB level clear theme
Metal Mix of SMB3's level clear theme

Remix of the Original Victory Music from Donkey Kong Arcade
Keep

&Keep

I'm cool with this.

For the Zelda cast (keeping with the roster we got)

- I'd give Link a new mix of the overworld theme that Smash 64 and Melee used.

- I'd give this Link a short mix of the Great Sea from the Wind Waker.

- Too easy, the Sheik's encounter theme from Ocarina of Time.

- Zelda's Lullaby would fit her.

- Again with the easiness, Ganondorf's encounter theme from Ocarina of Time

I think all should be "keep". Luigi having his own independent theme is just weird and he is more known for being in the Mario series. While the Bowser Jr and Koopalings one would be a creative option, I think it is just best to leave them the same as Bowser's victory theme. They are just too related. The two I missed ( DK and Dr. Mario ) are all good points, but I think it is just best to stick with the victory theme we have in Smash 4. Then again, we could use a change from Brawl's victory themes.

I think keeping the Brawl victory themes in Smash for Wii U/3DS was a minor letdown.

 

[Cosmic77]

If any franchise needs more unique victory themes, it's Fire Emblem. Six characters and not one of them has something different.

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly, characters having different themes would be really neat.

It'd give the game more personality.

I guess you are right in a way. What if Smash for Switch made everyone had their own unique character theme? Too much or just fine?

If any franchise needs more unique victory themes, it's Fire Emblem. Six characters and not one of them has something different.

Exactly, Ike having the same theme as Marth should not be true. Give him something to do with Radiant Dawn or Path of Radiance.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Dr. Mario probably should've gotten his own unique victory theme, instead of using the generic Super Mario Bros. victory theme that Mario, Luigi, and Peach use.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Also, Bowser Jr rides the Koopa Clown Car which for some reason can't fly indefinitely like in every other appearance it made.

That's one of the main reasons I think he shouldn't have gotten in.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

What if Smash for Switch made everyone had their own unique character theme? Too much or just fine?

Well, maybe not all characters, but having a few new ones for those who really stand out, like Dr. Mario, would be relly appreciated.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

One series that'd be a bit difficult would be Pokemon as not only does it have lots of characters, most of them debuted in the same game.

But to try

Snippet of Opening from Pokeon Yellow
Light remix of Pokeball capture Jingle
Original Victory Theme
(drawing blanks)
Don't know what instruments are involved but very Japanese remix of main theme
Gym Leader Defeated Music

 

[UserKev]

If Legend Spyro was at all a possibility, I'd be quite happy to see Spyro in Smash.

I don't really see him as being among the more likely third party candidates in any case, at the moment.

I stated this so many times. If Spyro were to be considered a third party candidate, it needs to be because of the first 3 titles of the original trilogy. Spyro 1 up until 3 is how he ultimately is recognized.

Seeing others say this pleases me, Skull Kid really would be such a great character in Smash, and calling him just another one off is a disservice to the character

His impact of Skull Kid and Majora's Mask has been felt since Majora's Mask released: Twilight Princess, A Link between Worlds, Hyrule Warriors, the first dlc piece decided on in Breath of the Wild, Monster Hunter Stories, Smash Bros 4 (first assist trophy shown, Majora's Mask Mii costume), Melee (Trophy Challenge 3) Links crossbow training (penultimate challenge) the 3D remakes, 3DS themes and special edition, Badge Arcade, animal crossing games.

Majora's Mask along with Ocarina of Time has also been released on every home console since the 64. Same with Twilight Princess since Gamecube
All 3 games feature Skull Kid


I do wish his support thread was more active though, OP of it needs updating

You just reminded me how Skull Kid is still likely. He's always relevant and has a established history. I'm putting Skull Kid up there as a possible Zelda newcomer. Basically, the dev team would have to.

I do have to agree with Sakurai that Ridley is too big, but I never thought that. If Sakurai leaves, than Ridley's chances will probably increase. A new director could approve of Ridley and we would have him here in Smash for Switch.

No. If Sakurai steps down, really won't increase Ridley's chances at all. His situation will be right where it left off.

Easily predictable.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

That's one of the main reasons I think he shouldn't have gotten in.

It also doesn't help knowing that Dr. Mario isn't representing his own series.

 

[Blue_Sword_Edge]

If any franchise needs more unique victory themes, it's Fire Emblem. Six characters and not one of them has something different.

I'll try offering some ideas.

- I'd go with the main theme of Fire Emblem franchise.

/ - Give the Robins some version of Id tracks (Purpose, perhaps make a new one called "Victory" for a thought)

- Probably give her Duty from Awakening

/ - If no one else from Fates shows up, give the Corrins Azura's song.

- ShinyLegendary beat me to this. Something from Path of Radiance or Radiant Dawn

- Tempted to give him Together, We Ride. I'll go with this for now.

 

[Lukingordex]

Honestly, at this point, I could care less if shrinking Ridley makes him look weird. I mained Pikachu in almost every Smash game and I still can't get used to the size difference. In the anime, Pikachu sits on Ash's shoulder. In Smash, he stands almost as tall as Ness. There's not really anything Sakurai or any other director can do to fix this, unless you like the idea of having a micro Pikachu.

This. Also, don't forget Bowser. He even had appearances where he had the size of a mountain.

I want you to read that last sentence, then think of Meta Knight.

Or even Charizard or Pit. I think smash bros. has enough examples of characters that can fly in their games and were adapted to fit in the roster.

That does not count because Raymsn is not in that game.

If anything, the fact this game exists proves that Ubisoft is in very good terms with Nintendo. Rayman is the mascot of Ubisoft, and I think that if the roster receives a Ubisoft newcomer, it'd definitely be Rayman. Maybe the Rabbits would also come as joke characters (they actually did just that in a game called TMNT: Smash Up which is a smash bros. clone, so it's possible.)

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Or even Charizard or Pit. I think smash bros. has enough examples of characters that can fly in their games and were adapted to fit in the roster.

Pit doesn't have indefinite flight for a large part of his games, and Charizard doesn't learn Fly except by TM.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Pit doesn't have indefinite flight for a large part of his games, and Charizard doesn't learn Fly except by TM.

Counter, Charizard is the the flying Pokemon in Sun & Moon and their sequels.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Pit doesn't have indefinite flight for a large part of his games, and Charizard doesn't learn Fly except by TM.

Pit's case is true, but here's the thing.

The "Power of Flight" in Uprising lets him fly for about 5 minutes without taking any breaks. In Smash 4, it's just an up special that lasts like, 2 or 3 seconds.

And it's something that is in every single chapter of Uprising except the one where you fight Medusa and the final one, which use the Wings of Icarus instead, so I'd say that's a pretty important thing.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Counter, Charizard is the the flying Pokemon in Sun & Moon and their sequels.

My point is that unless there is an in-game explanation for why an iconic trait of a character wouldn't be in Smash, that character should probably not be in Smash.

I was actually on the fence about Charizard on my roster, but he is popular enough that I think, Flight not being an iconic trait of his outside the anime and one game, not being learned except with the use of an HM, he can be in without indefinite flight.

As for Pit, there is a reasonable in-game explanation for not getting the Power of Flight: Palutena doesn't give it to him. I also give a bit more leeway for Sakurai altering his own characters' traits for Smash.

 

[Staarih]

Unique victory themes for all characters would be godsend, I'm sure there's always some snippet of music to use within a series, or even a single game, to make different ones for each fighter. Rosalina's and Dark Pit's, for example, are really refreshing. I agree with all the same jingles for Pokémon and/or Fire Emblem characters getting quite repetitive, especially when there would be really nice, matching ones to utilize like with Dark Pit (I mean, Lost In Thoughts All Alone is like the song everyone knows from Fates and thus a part of it would suit Corrin for example).

Or if they really want to keep victory themes same within a series, then better keep it consistent without giving particular, single victory jingles for a few, picked characters. Consistency is key, it irks my OCD otherwise.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

My point is that unless there is an in-game explanation for why an iconic trait of a character wouldn't be in Smash, that character should probably not be in Smash.

Altering or limitating someone's iconic trait isn't removing the trait in itself, but rather something called balancing the game.

Kirby would be ridiculous if he had infinite jumps, Samus' Screw Attack would be beyond broken if it worked like it did in Super Metroid, Robin would be borderline unplayable if his tomes and swords would be gone forever like how it would happen in Awakening instead of just spawning back after a few seconds, etc.

Sacrifices have to be made sometimes to make a character work.

I also give a bit more leeway for Sakurai altering his own characters' traits for Smash.

So him doing that to his own characters is okay, but not for anyone else? They don't deserve to be in Smash if their iconic traits have to be altered just because he didn't work on them?

Are you even listening to yourself?

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Frankly, I find Kirby really problematic. I've actually been thinking during this discussion of how letting him float forever might be worked into Smash. There is the Kirby 64 appearance, in which he can't float forever, but I don't like relying on one appearance to justify removing such an iconic trait.

I don't think Samus' Screw Attack is that different from its canon appearances. The issue is that the move is so deadly in the games, right? I think it just has to be accepted that how damaging a move is in its own game might not translate use against characters from other games. They exist in different universes and are meeting in a third space, where how they match up is vague.

I don't really care about Robin. As in, I don't care if they're cut, so it's not as if I'm being hypocritical there.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I don't think Samus' Screw Attack is that different from its canon appearances. The issue is that the move is so deadly in the games, right? I think it just has to be accepted that how damaging a move is in its own game might not translate use against characters from other games. They exist in different universes and are meeting in a third space, where how they match up is vague.

You can also spam Screw Attack infinitely in Super Metroid. So it's basically the same "issue" as Kirby.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

You can also spam Screw Attack infinitely in Super Metroid. So it's basically the same "issue" as Kirby.

I'll have to look into that.

 

[Opossum]

I'll try offering some ideas.

- I'd go with the main theme of Fire Emblem franchise.

/ - Give the Robins some version of Id tracks (Purpose, perhaps make a new one called "Victory" for a thought)

- Probably give her Duty from Awakening

/ - If no one else from Fates shows up, give the Corrins Azura's song.

- ShinyLegendary beat me to this. Something from Path of Radiance or Radiant Dawn

- Tempted to give him Together, We Ride. I'll go with this for now.

Roy getting Together We Ride wouldn't really make sense though. The Binding Blade didn't use it as its recruitment theme; Marth's saga and Blazing Blade did.

I'd say the following would work:
- The Fire Emblem main theme (his current one) or Paean if they want to switch it up.
- Winning Road - Roy's Hope
- Eternal Bond
- Id Purpose
- You May Call Me Marth
- Lost in Thoughts All Alone

 

[Luminario]

Hypothetical scenario, say every character got their own victory theme (remix of usual series theme or unique) who you have with what theme?

Just to go over the Mario Cast

Keep
Remixed Snippet from https://youtu.be/OgdoI0lUYDw
Super Mario 64 Star Get music
Keep
Dr Mario (the game) has a victory theme but I'd go for a remix of the iconic Fever
Keep
Metal Mix of the NSMB level clear theme
Metal Mix of SMB3's level clear theme

Remix of the Original Victory Music from Donkey Kong Arcade
Keep

&Keep

I'd say that Peach should get a remix of her theme after she's been saved. It feels much more feminine and suits her much better.
I'll just throw out my opinion on a few:
Intro theme from a Link to the Past/ Wind Waker's Zelda's Awakening tune, unless it's too long to accurately remix then just go for a Ballad of the Goddess one instead.
Lost in Thoughts.
The old Melee theme. It sounded so relaxing.
It can stay somewhat the same, but I'd really prefer if it had the paid off loan whistle jingle mixed in at the end.
You know the intro of the Smash Skyworld remix? That part.
Remix of the reoccurring notes in versions of Id.
snippet from You may call me Marth.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Heck, we can barely get antagonists in Smash period.

 

[Pacack]

While I appreciate the sentiment you're trying to go for...

?
?????????????

 

[TheLastJinjo]

While I appreciate the sentiment you're trying to go for...

?
?????????????

Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr. (And Mario VS Donkey Kong)

 

[Opossum]

While I appreciate the sentiment you're trying to go for...

?
?????????????

Mario vs DK series and DK Junior, respectively.

It's important to note that an antagonist isn't the same thing as a villain. In the above listed games, they were the antagonists.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

While I appreciate the sentiment you're trying to go for...

?
?????????????

DK is because of the arcade game, though it doesn't work because it's not the same DK.

Mario is because of the DK Jr. game.

EDIT: DOUBLE NINJA'D DAMMIT!

 

[TheLastJinjo]

though it doesn't work because it's not the same DK.

It is the same DK. And he's an antagonist in Mario VS Donkey Kong.

 

[Pacack]

Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr. (And Mario VS Donkey Kong)

I suppose technically, but is anyone really going to point at Mario and say he's an antagonist?

Also, as noted above, that Donkey Kong is canonically not the same as the one in the arcade game.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

It is the same DK. And he's an antagonist in Mario VS Donkey Kong.

I was speaking of the arcade game specifically.

Mario vs DK kinda slipped off of my mind...