Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Icedragonadam]

Man with Konami getting 2 more characters, and SE possibly getting another one(Geno, DQ character, or Lara), I just don't believe any leak that has no 2nd Namco rep.

 

[Deleted member]

a video game that we, you know, will be playing in early December and not arguing about.

But no one plays Smash Bros. We all buy it to look at the character select screen.

 

[Diddy Kong]

*sigh* I return to this thread about a week later, still talk about "leaks". These guys got you all fooled well.

I still want Impa. I hope she happens. Echo or not.

Dixie Kong also needs to be in, as original as she can get.

Isaac seems likely, and that's cool.

I got nothing more.

 

[Paperchampion23]

God, I hope the next direct has something substantial or more credible rumors come out because the last 5 pages have been abysmal to read lol.

Really hope we can close some doors on a few characters, get more deconfirmations, and further verify or deny Vergeben or Loz18's credibility. This forum as a whole needs it bad.

 

[Bionichute]

>Gardevoir and Gothitelle- "WHAT!? THEY WOULDN'T ADD THOSE TWO"
- What makes this leak bull**** isn't the characters, but the logic of some dude *magically* getting a look at the debug menu or stealing a demo unit, as if Nintendo would just leave one alone with a person or would have data from characters not in the demo.

So, as much as you are 100% correct on this, this uh, literally happened with Skylanders Giants. Someone got to play the demo at E3/another event i forget, which happened to have the full debug menu in it. They managed to get the demo to play the final boss of the game and leaked it online before releasse. These kinds of accidents do actually happen.

 

[DarkFalcon]

But no one plays Smash Bros. We all buy it to look at the character select screen.

60 dollars well spent.

 

[RandomAce]

Friendly reminder that when the Brawl roster was leaked, there were two leakers.

One leaker had one half of the roster, the other had the other half of the roster. Were either wrong because they didn't have the other half. No, they weren't.

The absence of information in a leak does not mean the leak is fake. It means there was an absence of information. That's literally it. Now, if he got something wrong entirely, then that would prove he was fake.
---
It's downright revisionist if you think Snake, Ridley, K.Rool, or Simon ****ing Belmont were safe picks. That's the most overused and flat out incorrect reasons to use against Vergeben.

Half the reason any leak is immediately discarded is because the characters happen to be ones the community at large, or particular individuals dislike or think are unlikely. However, what this community seems to fail to understand is that our expectations or our thought processes of "being likely" are bull**** and wrong a lot of the time.

Like, honestly, don't even tell me otherwise that the first reaction to most leaks don't address the content.

>Gardevoir and Gothitelle- "WHAT!? THEY WOULDN'T ADD THOSE TWO"
- What makes this leak bull**** isn't the characters, but the logic of some dude *magically* getting a look at the debug menu or stealing a demo unit, as if Nintendo would just leave one alone with a person or would have data from characters not in the demo.

All it takes is a bit of a breakdown and critical thinking, honest. Not to mention, half the time the community creates rules that get crushinated every time we get a Smash game.

I STILL see people using "connection/history with Nintendo" as if it's the be all, end all bit for 3rd party characters. Metal Gear does not have a "strong relationship with Nintendo". Final Fantasy VII does not have a strong connection with Nintendo. Shantae is not going to suddenly get in because of a "strong relationship" because that's not why at least 3 of the 3rd parties got in. They got in because they've had a ton of requests and have GAMING HISTORY, not just with Nintendo.

The only exception to this, imo, is Geno, as he's been mentioned by Sakurai by name, and the character has some how survived among Smash fans for a ridiculous amount of time. He seems like a "Bayonetta" type pick, in that she's not as iconic, but at this point she's basically an honorary Nintendo character.

I realize this post went from immediately relevant to a rant, and I apologize if I rustled any jimmies. But I see the same...tired arguments that would work for inducting into a Nintendo Hall of Fame, but don't really do much for me when talking about a video game that we, you know, will be playing in early December and not arguing about.

I agree with this, but you can’t say that saying King K. Rool was a safe bet is being revisionist when he was one of the safest bets that almost everyone was banking on that was supported with evidence and what not.

Not to mention that Vergeben didn’t even leak him or anything. It’s only known that someone says King K. isn’t in that he didn’t believe in. So there isn’t anything for or against him in that regard.

 

[Pakky]

you come off as the kinda guy that believes in alex jones, eren

Not necessary...

 

[Diddy Kong]

Debug menu or not...

Remember these;

-Chorus Kids
-Toon Zelda and "Toon Sheik"
-pra_mai

I still call bull****.

 

[Deleted member]

But no one plays Smash Bros. We all buy it to look at the character select screen.

I honestly can't think of any other game franchise where the fanbase (myself included, sometimes) puts as much emphasis on character choices as some do in the Smash community. I think focusing too much on this stuff can honestly ruin the game for yourself and lose sight on what the game is supposed to be about in the first place: having fun.

Basically, character choices shouldn't be taken as scarily serious as they are IMO. Even I can sometimes fall into viewing them waaaay too seriously, and it can definitely ruin the game for me. I personally am gonna just chill and wait and see what Nintendo gives us. I'm sure it'll be fun and cool.

 

[fogbadge]

ive seen that pie chart showing ballot votes in japan, do we have ones for the other regions?

 

[Ridrool64]

I believe Verg mostly but I do think Simon was a safe bet once we saw Bomberman's Assist, mostly because his only major competition was gone, but Verge said it before we knew Bomberman would be an AT. Ridley wasn't, and I'll give him that. Icies were a safe bet, Snake wasn't.

Taking his word as gospel right now is as equally dubious as instantly rejecting him for his prior missteps, unless he states it's his reliable source that told him. I mostly believe him because he hasn't revealed the whole roster. Until October at the least, any full roster leaks are bound to be fake. Incineroar isn't somebody I care about, but Geno would be awesome. Thus, I have some desire to believe him. If he ever says something like "an orange hair girl with a rabbit isn't in, not even an assist" then I'll go into denial. But I do have biased reasons to believe him.

At the time of the ESRB leak, the images could be debated as fake. Shulk did actually look like a photoshopped Little Mac in that image, and it did look like there were a bunch of errors. The videos where what proved it as undeniably real (and denial was just denial).

A history with Nintendo does matter to some extent for the SERIES. NOT the individuals, as we thought. Metal Gear has been on Nintendo's consoles in the past, Final Fantasy was (not 7, though), and every third party franchise has been on a Nintendo console at least once. Just because Snake and Cloud are here doesn't mean we'll see PaRappa or Sir Daniel Fortesque, or a Fable character, join the battle. Unless they do, then I'm full of it. But until they do, they won't. It's not a dead rule, it's a rule that is different from our original interpretation. (No offense to anybody who wants them.)

We do get way to obsessed over the roster because this series is so beloved that many people take it as the gospel as to who matters and who doesn't. Originally we respected NPC roles, but nowadays anything short of playability is considered a snub, when it's actually a treat. I blame DLC for this change.

 

[Nazyrus]

Friendly reminder that when the Brawl roster was leaked, there were two leakers.

ne leaker had one half of the roster, the other had the other half of the roster. Were either wrong because they didn't have the other half. No, they weren't.

The absence of information in a leak does not mean the leak is fake. It means there was an absence of information. That's literally it. Now, if he got something wrong entirely, then that would prove he was fake.
---
It's downright revisionist if you think Snake, Ridley, K.Rool, or Simon ****ing Belmont were safe picks. That's the most overused and flat out incorrect reasons to use against Vergeben.

Half the reason any leak is immediately discarded is because the characters happen to be ones the community at large, or particular individuals dislike or think are unlikely. However, what this community seems to fail to understand is that our expectations or our thought processes of "being likely" are bull**** and wrong a lot of the time.

Like, honestly, don't even tell me otherwise that the first reaction to most leaks don't address the content.

>Gardevoir and Gothitelle- "WHAT!? THEY WOULDN'T ADD THOSE TWO"
- What makes this leak bull**** isn't the characters, but the logic of some dude *magically* getting a look at the debug menu or stealing a demo unit, as if Nintendo would just leave one alone with a person or would have data from characters not in the demo.

All it takes is a bit of a breakdown and critical thinking, honest. Not to mention, half the time the community creates rules that get crushinated every time we get a Smash game.

I STILL see people using "connection/history with Nintendo" as if it's the be all, end all bit for 3rd party characters. Metal Gear does not have a "strong relationship with Nintendo". Final Fantasy VII does not have a strong connection with Nintendo. Shantae is not going to suddenly get in because of a "strong relationship" because that's not why at least 3 of the 3rd parties got in. They got in because they've had a ton of requests and have GAMING HISTORY, not just with Nintendo.

The only exception to this, imo, is Geno, as he's been mentioned by Sakurai by name, and the character has some how survived among Smash fans for a ridiculous amount of time. He seems like a "Bayonetta" type pick, in that she's not as iconic, but at this point she's basically an honorary Nintendo character.

I realize this post went from immediately relevant to a rant, and I apologize if I rustled any jimmies. But I see the same...tired arguments that would work for inducting into a Nintendo Hall of Fame, but don't really do much for me when talking about a video game that we, you know, will be playing in early December and not arguing about.

You don't have to apologize dude. People are being way too ridiculous with the bull**** logic process in their heads, and it's not the first time you've called them out for having an unlogical reasoning process, and yet, they come again and do it again…
People need to stop thinking:
• Incomplete info = fake leak
• Connection/history with nintendo being the only and main reason
• What we've gotten being "safe picks"
• Relevancy of the character at the current time
The rules are being broken with Ultimate like never before. And yet… in a few pages, you will see people faaaaalling into these mistakes all over again… Talk about short memory span… Your post should, really, be pinned in some sort of way as a reminder to people who come here to speculate. We gotta speculate with a more open mind and a less hatred-focused mind towards a leaker just because he has incomplete information.

Also, everyone… a "source", is working in a role within Nintendo, in a specific team, specific department, however you want to call it. There are MANY of these departments and each of them are handled SPECIFIC information, not all of the content of the game. Therefore, expect ALWAYS parts of information being leaked, not the whole content (unless ESRB comes and does their **** again, lol). So to expect a source to tell you the whole roster or whole contents of a next direct, is ********, and you don't clearly know how info is being handled within the company itself. This is why leaks about "hey i got the full roster, here you go" or "here is everything you will see in next direct" are usually, if not always, 99% FAKE. Only people at treehouse or waaaay higher level of roles within Nintendo, know more BIG stuff and more about of info, and THOSE people are never risking their position by causing leaks (nevermind the freaking security Nintendo has and how strict they are overall).

So please… now that you know a bit of how info is actually handled, use your heads a little bit and stop pretending to expect complete information from anyone about anything. And STOP forgetting the mistakes you keep making while speculating and stop letting your personal likes/dislikes define what's actually possible or not.

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

"This veggietales guy has been 100% right so far, we may want to keep him and his open claims in the back of our minds during discussion so we ca-"
"NO IDIOTS HE ONLY TOOK SAFE BETS AND DOESN'T KNOW EVERYONE, IGNORE HIM FOR THE FRAUD HE IS"

Fascinating.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I’ve been told that the only thing that makes unique in Smash are her boobs...and them being smaller than last game loses her uniqueness...the hell

 

[Dixie Kong]

you come off as the kinda guy that believes in alex jones, eren

What if he is Alex Jones?

What are the chances that new games will be announced in the next non Nindies direct? I would love to finally see Nintendo’s next DK game with a Dixie Smash reveal!

 

[MrSmashFour]

I interrupt this discussion to inform that I would Deku NUT if Skull Kid got in

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

But no one plays Smash Bros. We all buy it to look at the character select screen.

You say that in jest, but it worries me that the entirety of content in this section of Smashboards has at time boiled down to:

1) Is Mario secretly a Donkey Kong character?
2) Will they censor Pyra's entire body because "think of the children"?
3) Will they waste dev time coding one character as an Assist Trophy, only to troll everyone and make them playable as well?
4) They should give Primid Snake's moveset?
5) That roster sucks because it doesn't have my favorite newcomer option in it
6) This character/series must be represented with a playable character to represent this subjective trait
---
ACTUALLY. I'M GONNA SPEAK TO #6 RIGHT NAO:

You know, I don't think Smash really represents, or "reps" the people who have raised us and made so many amazing games over the years. As we know, people get old as the years go on.

We need to represent the elderly in Smash. Old Manondorf doesn't count. This is why Old Man Heihachi MUST BE ADDED. We simply MUST rep the elderly!

Gameplay? Who CARES? We don't have any old people on the roster, so we need him.

Please tell me you understand why I hate the discussion of "reps"? If the Character Select Screen was for a Hall of Fame that nobody actually played, then I'd get representing things with characters. But the Smash fanbase, quite literally, states subjective needs of representation as objective, and that the only means of proper representation is PLAYABLE REPRESENTATION.

Why? Why you do dis?

 

[Dixie Kong]

Imagine the hysteria in all of the character support threads if Sakurai confirmed that there would be no dlc.

 

[Idon]

Cheeki Breeky, more freaky leakieeeeeeees.

 

[Deleted member]

4) They should give Primid Snake's moveset?

This was a discussion that actually happened? That's...uh...I'll just say dumb for now.

 

[DarkFalcon]

You say that in jest, but it worries me that the entirety of content in this section of Smashboards has at time boiled down to:

1) Is Mario secretly a Donkey Kong character?
2) Will they censor Pyra's entire body because "think of the children"?
3) Will they waste dev time coding one character as an Assist Trophy, only to troll everyone and make them playable as well?
4) They should give Primid Snake's moveset?
5) That roster sucks because it doesn't have my favorite newcomer option in it
6) This character/series must be represented with a playable character to represent this subjective trait
---
ACTUALLY. I'M GONNA SPEAK TO #6 RIGHT NAO:

You know, I don't think Smash really represents, or "reps" the people who have raised us and made so many amazing games over the years. As we know, people get old as the years go on.

We need to represent the elderly in Smash. Old Manondorf doesn't count. This is why Old Man Heihachi MUST BE ADDED. We simply MUST rep the elderly!

Gameplay? Who CARES? We don't have any old people on the roster, so we need him.

Please tell me you understand why I hate the discussion of "reps"? If the Character Select Screen was for a Hall of Fame that nobody actually played, then I'd get representing things with characters. But the Smash fanbase, quite literally, states subjective needs of representation as objective, and that the only means of proper representation is PLAYABLE REPRESENTATION.

Why? Why you do dis?

The lack of old people in Smash is sickening. Clearly Sakurai hates the elderly.

 

[Shroob]

Debug menu or not...

Remember these;

-Chorus Kids
-Toon Zelda and "Toon Sheik"
-pra_mai

I still call bull****.

Two names from a datamine and one from potentially accurrate information from a datamine?

Why yes, I do remember those, why do you ask?

 

[Ze Diglett]

Taking his word as gospel right now is as equally dubious as instantly rejecting him for his prior missteps, unless he states it's his reliable source that told him.

This. None of us are under Vergeben's "spell" and blindly following every word he says like some in this thread would have you believe, but to outright deny that he has genuine inside information, or at least did before E3, is blatantly contrarian and revisionist.
Some people really just wanna feel above others, I guess. Vergeben could correctly leak the entire final roster of the game and these people would still be chalking it up to a bunch of "safe bets" and calling us all a bunch of sheep for buying into it.

 

[Deleted member]

I only put my faith in Marcus Sellars because he has a avatar so that must mean he is legit.

 

[Deleted member]

Imagine the hysteria in all of the character support threads if Sakurai confirmed that there would be no dlc.

I'd only be bummed because it'd mean no Octolings, but I'd get over it pretty quickly. Honestly, if K. Rool was the last newcomer, I'd be pretty okay with it. I'd be sad Kirby and Zelda didn't get anything, but there's already like 40 some-odd characters in this game I'm gonna play as and love, so I personally don't really need any more lol.

 

[Deleted member]

I agree with this, but you can’t say that saying King K. Rool was a safe bet is being revisionist when he was one of the safest bets that almost everyone was banking on that was supported with evidence and what not.

Not to mention that Vergeben didn’t even leak him or anything. It’s only known that someone says King K. isn’t in that he didn’t believe in. So there isn’t anything for or against him in that regard.

Yeah, but he's still right about Snake, Ridley, and Simon Belmont. Before our options were just about limitless; nobody save for a few that the community would have deemed 'nutjobs' had predicted or even asked for Belmont. Anyone who goes back and says they were 'likely' is completely fooling themselves. They were only likely in retrospect. Not to mention that Verg did somewhat predict the order. He definitively said that Ridley would be revealed at E3 and that Simon would be the next one. Lo and behold, Ridley was revealed at E3 and our next direct revealed Simon Belmont as the very first thing of the direct.

The way I see it, the guy is essentially doing what Tehponycorn's doing here. Instead of running around and grabbing every leak/rumor for us; Verg is using multiple people he knows within the industry as his 'sources' and compiling his leak on that; that's why he doesn't know everything flat out. Verg himself has absolutely no knowledge at all; he's just compiling what he hears from the people he knows within. That's also why we cant get a definitive Pokemon rep from him. Because he's got multiple (only one of which is confident on that actual rep while the others are unsure), he won't flat out say who the 7th gen rep is. He was correct in saying that Mimikyu was not one of them, however. Since as of the last direct, Mimikyu was shown as an AT. That's also something that hasn't been attributed to him yet.

The same goes for his 'Another SE rep'. He probably has heard from all his sources that another rep from Square is in (making him confident enough to leak it), but not all have told him which character; leaving it vague as to who it is just like the Pokemon Rep. If every one of his sources said that the rep was Geno, then he'd flat out say it.

Honestly, what he could do to be a bit clearer with people is say something like "Listen, I've got X sources. Y of which say Incineroar/Geno is in, so, I'm not sure yet whether they actually are in as a playable character or if they're just a pokeball/AT or something"

 

[Opossum]

I mean it's probably just wishful thinking, but I'm just saying...in light of the Square Enix info, this 4chan leak still hasn't been outright disconfirmed.

Of note:
- States Geno is playable, and now Verg is saying there's a Square Enix newcomer
- Stated Isabelle was playable almost a week before Verg came out with that info publicly
- Had Simon
- Knew of an August Direct that would reveal a character from the list (though it said mid instead of early)
- Knew Ashley was an Assist


It's still kinda sketchy but I mean it has Celica on it, so... I just want to believe.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Fake news

Everyone ignores what he gets wrong and he writes it off as a different and unreliable source.

The sheep believe him and continue to held him up on a pedestal.

Sheep. Lol. Pedestal. Man, you should write a book about how everyone who takes words into consideration is less apt than you.

There is sound reasoning to at least pay attention. Bright people pay attention, even if there is no reward to follow.

Plus, whether he’s right or wrong, believers are right or wrong, the impact on daily life is next to nothing. The anger you have towards people who like to consider possibilities is...odd.

You’re insulting people you don’t know and making yourself out to be a paragon of reasoning for choosing not to put faith in a person. Which...is just as average reasoning as those that do.

Tone it down. We’re a community. Not a political gathering.

 

[Hinata]

I mean it's probably just wishful thinking, but I'm just saying...in light of the Square Enix info, this 4chan leak still hasn't been outright disconfirmed. View attachment 159365
Of note:
- States Geno is playable, and now Verg is saying there's a Square Enix newcomer
- Stated Isabelle was playable almost a week before Verg came out with that info publicly
- Had Simon
- Knew of an August Direct that would reveal a character from the list (though it said mid instead of early)
- Knew Ashley was an Assist


It's still kinda sketchy but I mean it has Celica on it, so... I just want to believe.

Ah, the classic "This leak has a character I want on it so I just want to believe". I know it well.

*stares at all the leaks with Ashley and Phoenix Wright on them*

All too well...

 

[DarkFalcon]

I mean it's probably just wishful thinking, but I'm just saying...in light of the Square Enix info, this 4chan leak still hasn't been outright disconfirmed. View attachment 159365
Of note:
- States Geno is playable, and now Verg is saying there's a Square Enix newcomer
- Stated Isabelle was playable almost a week before Verg came out with that info publicly
- Had Simon
- Knew of an August Direct that would reveal a character from the list (though it said mid instead of early)
- Knew Ashley was an Assist


It's still kinda sketchy but I mean it has Celica on it, so... I just want to believe.

Wasn't Celica's game remake in 2017? Seems a bit late.

 

[RouffWestie]

When Simon was being discussed prior to being revealed, was I the only person who often saw people suggest that he have alts of other Belmonts and use their physical abilities to flesh out his moveset because only using whip attacks would be boring? Because after seeing that type of comment so often, I wasn't exactly shocked when Ritcher was revealed, I just assumed other people more invested in Castlevania knew what they were talking about.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I mean it's probably just wishful thinking, but I'm just saying...in light of the Square Enix info, this 4chan leak still hasn't been outright disconfirmed. View attachment 159365
Of note:
- States Geno is playable, and now Verg is saying there's a Square Enix newcomer
- Stated Isabelle was playable almost a week before Verg came out with that info publicly
- Had Simon
- Knew of an August Direct that would reveal a character from the list (though it said mid instead of early)
- Knew Ashley was an Assist


It's still kinda sketchy but I mean it has Celica on it, so... I just want to believe.

Celica...please join (and bring Alm with you...stop leaving the poor man alone at home)

 

[Nethermoosen]

Where's my castlevania collection and simom at E3 lol

I know it's hard to accept and youll just say it was his bad source or incomplete info. So there's clearly no proof that would ever convince you.

There’s clearly just no proof. There are no definitive conclusions either way. If you say he’s lying for a FACT, then you clearly don’t understand proof either, even if your “facts” end up being true.

 

[Shroob]

Wasn't Celica's game remake in 2017? Seems a bit late.

To be fair, being an echo of Robin wouldn't make it for her to take a lot of time in development.

 

[Bionichute]

i know nothing about fire emblem who is celica

 

[Opossum]

Wasn't Celica's game remake in 2017? Seems a bit late.

Of note, it was being worked on since summer of 2015...which, notably, would have been right around when Sakurai would have gone to IS to get Corrin for Smash 4.

 

[Paperchampion23]

I mean it's probably just wishful thinking, but I'm just saying...in light of the Square Enix info, this 4chan leak still hasn't been outright disconfirmed. View attachment 159365
Of note:
- States Geno is playable, and now Verg is saying there's a Square Enix newcomer
- Stated Isabelle was playable almost a week before Verg came out with that info publicly
- Had Simon
- Knew of an August Direct that would reveal a character from the list (though it said mid instead of early)
- Knew Ashley was an Assist


It's still kinda sketchy but I mean it has Celica on it, so... I just want to believe.

To yours and the leaks credit, August 8th is almost the mid of August, depends on where you believe it starts.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Of note, it was being worked on since summer of 2015...which, notably, would have been right around when Sakurai would have gone to IS to get Corrin for Smash 4.

I can hear the outcry over more Fire Emblem.

 

[Bionichute]

I can hear the outcry over more Fire Emblem.

i hope this and the rumor about the black knight are true so every fire emblem character gets an echo and people get mad