Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[zeldasmash]

King K. Rool looks really good. Chrom and Dark Samus also look great, Dark Samus in particular with her animations.

Also, slightly off topic, but RIP Steffan Karl Steffanson.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

King K. Rool looks really good. Chrom and Dark Samus also look great, Dark Samus in particular with her animations.

Also, slightly off topic, but RIP Steffan Karl Steffanson.

Oh RIP. I thought that's why his image was being posted everywhere

 

[MSmariosonic]

Also, slightly off topic, but RIP Steffan Karl Steffanson.

He'll always be our number one

 

[Nap_]

Nice thing that Dante is the new character for the next week. I was bored with Skull Kid.

 

[Iridium]

I assume you all have seen this, but I don't care. Just watch it.

Edit: Hmmm. This definitely isn't GamesCon at all.

Yeah, that goes for this too.

 

[DevaAshera]

If he doesn't go with fan demand, he'd go with The Pokemon Company's demands. And they would never think about marketing Gothitelle this late.

That's not usually how crossover titles work. It's usually that the dev asks for permission to use a certain character and the team behind that series says yes or no. Yes, they can say no due to not wanting to market that character, but that's not always the case.

If Sakurai asked and explained he was going to include Gothitelle as an Echo of Gardevoir, I could see the Pokémon Company agreeing if only to have more representation for Pokémon in the game. Having even Gothitelle in would be better in a marketing sense then no one else at all..not to mention the Pokémon Company has to be aware of how Super Smash Bros positively effects a character's or series' popularity and thus marketability. Making a less popular character into a more popular, and thus more marketable, one simply due to appearing in Smash rather then just making a popular one slightly more popular could be seen as a positive by them.

 

[Will]

Ah yes. Who could forget the legendary arcade classic, Xenoblade Chronicles?

Ah yes, the first arcade game praised for its soundtrack and having a playtime of over 100-something hours

 

[Tree Gelbman]

This can’t be legit...no way

I wish. People legit thought Pac Man was irrelevant and had no place in Smash Brothers.

 

[domriver]

So you guys expecting a character reveal tonight?
EDIT:
“Team #Metroid” and “Team #FireEmblem” go head-to-head in this special 2 vs. 2 battle from the Super #SmashBros Ultimate development team. The new Stage Morph feature also makes an appearance!

This was taken from Nintendo Versus Twitter feed. Notice Team#Metroid and Team#FireEmblem did they not tweet Team#Geno and Team#Mallow a few months ago? Does it mean anything? Or nothing?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I wish. People legit thought Pac Man was irrelevant and had no place in Smash Brothers.

I remember arguing how much merchandise to this day is sold of pac man, how just recently I had bought a pac man shirt

And the doubters talking about how that's just normie stuff and how in the game industry he's irrelivent

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I rewatched the footage some more.

That K.Rool match is still really uninformative; mostly Snake was just smacking K.Rool around and then getting hit by dumb stuff like the guy playing Snake was told he needed to lose. K.Rool's projectiles really do look kinda bad on a second watch. The crown has item properties which strongly leads me to believe it can be caught, and with its movement speed, I totally imagine a Pac-Man bonus fruit scenario wherein it used carelessly can easily be turned against him except it has a much slower animation than Pac-Man bonus fruit and I don't think K.Rool can carry it as a normal item himself so it's like the downsides of bonus fruit with far fewer of the upsides? The gun is just so slow; the kill K.Rool got with it looked like a real gimmick that would almost certainly not work in a real match. However, K.Rool does have decent looking mobility and seemingly DDD nair. Sadly Snake was at almost no damage when uthrow hit so we don't know if K.Rool uthrow is the same outstanding kill throw that Charizard uthrow is, but given how weak the launch distance was at almost no damage it did look like the kind of throw that often scales to a kill throw. K.Rool also looked like he had a pretty good Bowser-esque jab. I think K.Rool so far, when you put it together, looks like a very, very plain big that, if he'll succeed, will have to rely on just good basic numbers and good normals which he might have but it was hard to tell because the guy using him wasn't exactly exploring K.Rool's options that well. I'm pessimistic about his overall value but still far from ready to write him off since we still don't know so much.

Chrom really does look just very strong, and it's hard for me to imagine him not completely outclassing Roy unless Roy has some specific buffs Chrom doesn't get to help him compete. Not having Roy's garbage sweetspot mechanics is a pure positive and will let Chrom actually use Roy's moves productively in ways that Roy just wasn't allowed to, and overall Chrom's up-B just looks better because, while Roy's has some offensive merits that Chrom's doesn't, Chrom's is just obviously a better recovery which frankly matters more (this Chrom player kept unsafely landing on stage with it, but he could have just played better to avoid those problems most likely). One thing I noticed was that right before the stage morph Chrom landed a counter on some randomly Ridley aerial and whiffed at relatively close range. This suggests that the Roy/Chrom counter has much smaller hitboxes than the enormous Marth and Ike counters we've seen from demo footage so far and thus the Roy/Chrom counter is probably still bad. That's very interesting because greatly improved counters up until now had seemed like a general design direction but maybe not?

Dark Samus didn't do much interesting in that match; it spent most of the time jumping around using Charge Shot to minimal impact and was mostly carried by Ridley. Dark Samus really is just comically floaty, and we saw no evidence of superior air control as opposed to normal Samus which makes me suspect that the floaty factor is going to be mostly just a liability here. Mostly in this match Chrom and Lucina kept jumping into fair instead of exploiting Dark Samus's vulnerability, but I expect at a higher level that Dark Samus is going to have just a terrible time landing. We did see further evidence that Dark Samus's dash attack is pretty strong and we saw a very convincing bair kill at one point; if Dark Samus has a general theme of killing easier than normal Samus that could be of some real relevance even if I still have just remarkably little faith overall in the Samus kit.

Stage morph also had much better performance than we saw in the direct. I didn't personally notice any frame drops, but I also didn't watch it frame by frame to verify or anything and I know others are far more sensitive to that sort of thing than I am so I'm a poor judge. The super bright white background in the middle of morphing will probably annoy some people, but overall it seemed to work pretty well.

 

[Iridium]

King K. Rool looks really good. Chrom and Dark Samus also look great, Dark Samus in particular with her animations.

Also, slightly off topic, but RIP Steffan Karl Steffanson.

I always come home to the worst news. Now he's gone, along with Keyboard Cat and Eddy Wally.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

So you guys expecting a character reveal tonight?

Oh you didn't hear, the character reveal already got leaked

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I remember arguing how much merchandise to this day is sold of pac man, how just recently I had bought a pac man shirt

And the doubters talking about how that's just normie stuff and how in the game industry he's irrelivent

I legit wore a Pac Man shirt for the E3 he was revealed at. Bought it at Target like during Smash 4 speculation legit because it said ''Don't hate the player."

Saw it and immediately summed up my feelings on that whole ordeal.

 

[MSmariosonic]

I wish. People legit thought Pac Man was irrelevant and had no place in Smash Brothers.

Some people are just on a whole new level of nintendo fanboyism

like ****, how can the company you are ****ing off to be more open to 3rd parties then you yourself

frankly i had a similiar mentality... when I was just a mere child

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Interesting, a few questions though: Firstly, are we sure it's the same guy? It doesn't seem like there's a tripcode used, so it could be an imposter depending on the situation. Secondly, has anything in the second post turned out to be true? We have had cases where one part of a leak is on-point, but the supposed second part is almost completely inaccurate. Thirdly, which Smash leak is he talking about? There have been a couple Dante leaks flying around IIRC, so knowing which one he may be referring to could help in proving the legitimacy of the leak.

All in all, it's something to pay attention to, but I'm not quite buying it just yet. I want to see a few more details line up before putting any faith into it.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76923770

The smash leak is over here

He’s saying it’s going to be fire emblem characters fighting a dragon then then Dante pops out of nowhere to save them

 

[Nazyrus]

As PsychoIncarnate said, the Skull Kid fandom grew pretty much overnight (as Nazyrus implied, he already had fans, they were just quiet), and seem to be becoming arrogant, seeing Skull Kid as a guarantee.

Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if that happens as well with the other fanbases if their character gets more and more guaranteed.

 

[ChocolatGelgato]

I thought Pac Man didn't get Hype because everyone knew it was coming the moment Namco was called in to help them out, who else would namco bring in first into smash right? The only people I saw mad were mega fans of Lloyd who expected him to get in before Pacman. It's sorta like trying to be hyped for inklings being in smash when it was pretty obvious they would be in no matter what

 

[KMDP]

I remember arguing how much merchandise to this day is sold of pac man, how just recently I had bought a pac man shirt

And the doubters talking about how that's just normie stuff and how in the game industry he's irrelivent

I just... what?

Seriously... WHAT!?

I think I need to lie down.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76923770

The smash leak is over here

He’s saying it’s going to be fire emblem characters fighting a dragon then then Dante pops out of nowhere to save them

Dante, Megaman, Bayonetta, Cloud, (probably) Ken

I swear to god Maximilian has a connect or something this is gettin ridic

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Some people are just on a whole new level of nintendo fanboyism

like ****, how can the company you are ****ing off to be more open to 3rd parties then you yourself

frankly i had a similiar mentality... when I was just a mere child

It made me realize that Nintendo's former 3rd party problem might have come from the sheer fact that a lot of Nintendo fan boys just seemed to not even support third parties on Nintendo systems.

I can guarantee people like that were part of the problem.

 

[Deleted member]

Ah yes, the first arcade game praised for its soundtrack and having a playtime of over 100-something hours

I got a pocket full of quarters, and I'm headed to the arcade.
I don't have a lot of money, but I'm gonna play Xenoblade.
I've got a callus on my finger, and my shoulder's hurting too.
I'm gonna slash them all up, just as soon as they turn blue.

'Cause I've got Xeno fever;
Xeno fever.
It's driving me crazy.
Driving me crazy.
I've got Xeno fever;
Xeno fever.
I'm going out of my mind.
Going out of my mind.

 

[BluePikmin11]

The Dante leak is a strange one. Why would Dante be chosen over bigger Capcom franchises like Resident Evil?

Maybe Dante had high demand in the ballot and had more eye-catching moveset potential to Sakurai, i could see that, but...

...Devil May Cry is not the franchise I would have expected to have playable representation, even if the series' popularity worldwide is pretty huge (17 million units in sales according to Capcom sales data.)

Maybe Sakurai is a fan of Kamiya's games or something, maybe Kamiya himself convinced Sakurai to add Dante, sorta like Snake with Kojima/Snake. That is one plausible way I could see how Dante was included in Ultimate. Looking into it further, I guess he has a decent chance, but it would be weird to see him over other Capcom characters like Leon.

When Bayonetta was included I did kind of wonder why they didn't go for Dante instead, I mean the Nintendo link is the obvious reason, but Dante is like the icon of those style of beat 'em up games, he's just infinitely more iconic and popular. I wouldn't care for his inclusion myself one bit, but I know a lot of people would be happy about it, I suspect he might even have done much better on the ballot than a lot of us would have assumed. Without knowing anything about DMC and what the leak got right and how unlikely those predictions were I'm going to take it all with a grain of salt though.

Fun fact, Sakurai considers Bayonetta to be the peak beat-em-up game:

https://sourcegaming.info/2016/03/02/famitsu309/

"Sakurai: Mr. Kamiya’s smile right here (laughs). Now, talking pre-Bayonetta and post-Bayonetta. That actually is what ended up happening. When you talk about stylish action games, Bayonetta’s the name that always comes up. But, I don’t think there’s been a game that’s surpassed Bayonettayet, though.

Interviewer: If you had to say…

Sakurai: It’s really hard to make an original action game that’s this well made."

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I'm mad if Sakurai expects me to not want Simon and Bayonetta in ****ing Dante's trailer.

Come on Sakurai. COME ON. HOW ARE YOU GONNA HAVE THESE THREE IN THE SAME GAME AND NOT PUT THEM IN ONE TRAILER TOGETHER?!

COME ON FAKE LEAK! DO ME THIS SOLID FOR SAKURAI.

 

[Will]

The Dante leak is a strange one. Why would Dante be chosen over bigger Capcom franchises like Resident Evil?

Why would they choose Bayonetta over Yakuza, Virtua Fighter, or another Sonic?
Because we know that poll was "rigged".

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I'm mad if Sakurai expects me to not want Simon and Bayonetta in ****ing Bayonetta's trailer.

Come on Sakurai. COME ON. HOW ARE YOU GONNA HAVE THESE THREE IN THE SAME GAME AND NOT PUT THEM IN ONE TRAILER TOGETHER?!

COME ON FAKE LEAK! DO ME THIS SOLID FOR SAKURAI.

I’m guessing by that second Bayonetta you actually meant Dante...?

 

[Noipoi]

So Dante is the "totally legit" character of the week, huh? Alright.
I can't say i'm a fan of Dante, he looks like an edgy kids wet dream. But if we still got characters like Geno, Incineroar and Isabelle I wouldn't mind.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I’m guessing by that second Bayonetta you actually meant Dante...?

I did.

Shush.

I'm...

SHOOSH.

There it's edited. I don't even know what you're talking about.

SHOOSH.

 

[SvartWolf]

fire emblem fighting a dragon seems horrible vague... but rathalos kinda fits the description like a glove. still. I think that is dante is in.. he is a "Sakurai's pick" rather than a ballot winner.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Well Dante has a great movset potential no question about that

But is he really that requested? If not we can count him as the WTF character of the game

 

[blazefan519]

So Dante has been leaked? This is new. So like, what's the evidence for it?

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

I can't help but feel like Dante, the Daemon Hunter, coming in to save the Fantasy Setting Knights from a Dragon... not a Daemon, just feels wrong.

So Dante has been leaked? This is new. So like, what's the evidence for it?

4chan leaker got some stuff right about a DMC announcement, but also claimed Dante was in Smash.

 

[BlueMagician]

Bayonetta was requested for Smash 4 since even before Smash 4 came out, and she was always in the top 10 of requests. That's why she got in Smash and not Dante.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Does Dante fight Dragons?

 

[MSmariosonic]

But is he really that requested? If not we can count him as the WTF character of the game

Eh, it's a stretch to call him a WTF character. I'm sure he got votes close to the amount Cloud got.

 

[KMDP]

Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if that happens as well with the other fanbases if their character gets more and more guaranteed.

Well, Skull Kid had fans, and most of them had become quiet. Some were re-energized by the lack of Skull Kid in the August Direct, some were energized by the "Pillow & Chair Theory", and some are more than likely jumping on a bandwagon as a result of this boost in energy.

Two characters had an explosive boost in Support after the August Direct: Skull Kid and Isaac.

 

[Will]

I can't help but feel like Dante, the Daemon Hunter, coming in to save the Fantasy Setting Knights from a Dragon... not a Daemon, just feels wrong.



4chan leaker got some stuff right about a DMC announcement, but also claimed Dante was in Smash.

Stop saying dragon. Rathalos is a Wyvern.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

My stance on Pac-man in the Smash 4 days was zig-zagged as hell. It changed at least three times.

First, I wanted him because I felt he deserved it and because he was one of the first gaming icons I was ever introduced to (Link was the other). Then, I didn't want him because I didn't think there was much you could do with him as a Smash fighter, thinking it any moveset you could give him would be limited or awkward. Then. after that, I wanted him again because people had eventually convinced me otherwise, and my own enjoyment of the character and my history with his games was rekindled

Ultimately my support for him wasn't always strong or even there, but when he was finally revealed, I was very, very happy. Never doubted his relevancy, though. Dude's a gaming icon. Still was at the time, still is now.

 

[Noipoi]

So Dante has been leaked? This is new. So like, what's the evidence for it?

No real evidence, some guy who's gotten things right before claims Dante's in. Personally I don't trust it, but that's just me.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Dante, Megaman, and Ryu all in smash would be such a wonderful representation of capcom that it makes me angry that out of all sega characters we got stuck with Bayonetta, a character which sega didnt even care for, got in purely out of marketing since Nintendo funded Bayo 2 and 3