Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Will]

Hm...

Two Konami reps, two Capcom reps, one Square Enix rep, one Namco rep. Seems uneven, doesn’t it?

— Imran Khan (@imranzomg) August 8, 2018

Anyone more familiar with Imran? I know he's an insider as he was aware of the lack of multiple reveals at Nintendo's E3, but I'm curious what his full history is.

It's just a weird hivemind tinfoil conspiracy theory.

Just how like the CSS "has to be even", the third party count "has to be" equal between all companies.

Also he's wrong. that's three bois.

 

[joshoctober16]

It is supposed to be Mother Brain. Melee had a...weird artstyle.

so your telling me mother brain now hangs out over a lake of lava with no tank and lets her self get burn , and no eye , also strange looking pimple things grow out when she is getting burn? like wtf? dosnt help she is like 20 times the size of the normal mother brain... i mean.... if it was her they should have updated it....now im confused...

 

[Zinith]

It wasn't in the 3DS version, just 1-1 was there. So 1-2 is still an open question.

That was kinda understandable considering it was the 3DS.

 

[WaxPython]

In Smash 4, lots of stages are like that. The Ultimate direct says that music is selected by series. Unless you can also choose from the "other" section, this will no longer be possible in Ultimate.

Any evidence we cannot choose from the other section? I'd assume we can unless there's reason to think otherwise

 

[Noipoi]

He's such a cute, happy, homicidal boi

He's just happy to be here.
No dream too big.

 

[joshoctober16]

That was kinda understandable considering it was the 3DS.

ya but... the dream land stage and ring stage.... the alts for them are there... i guess the 1-2 was TOO BIG

 

[ImajinForSmash]

Speaking of stages, what new stages do you guys think we’ll see?

I personally think we’ll see a Doki Doki Panic stage since Imajin is practically confirmed.

 

[Nonno Umby]

He's such a cute, happy, homicidal boi

"Ridley, stop tearing apart this place! We need it for the rest of the game!"

 

[TMNTSSB4]

The issue with FE stages is that NONE OF THEM ARE REAL. (Except Arena Ferox, but come on, that's just Coliseum remixed)

Arena Ferox is probably legal (not worse than the PS stages)...and never disrespect AF like that ever again

He's such a cute, happy, homicidal boi

So ****ing realistic compared to Snake

 

[Arcanir]

It's just a weird hivemind tinfoil conspiracy theory.

Just how like the CSS "has to be even", the third party count "has to be" equal between all companies.

Also he's wrong. that's three bois.

The thing is if you look at the post I linked to, he seems to have dropped hints before, such as:

There are still more characters to be revealed.

Boy are there ever

Which implies to me that he's at least aware of some things behind the roster. That's why I'm asking if anyone is more familiar with his history since I'm curious if it matches up with his previous behavior.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

We had Woolly World legal in like our very first local tournament. It played really badly. In addition to walk-off fun and the constant camp when the ground went away, when the ground was present the middle was a mini-cave of life. I had the fun of fighting a Lucario there. It was hard. It's probably not removed for gameplay reasons (many worse stages exist), but I'm guessing it's just too heavy on the processor and that the ground wobbling and the general detailed yarn textures are actually pretty substantial. Every stage must play nice with stage morph in an 8 player smash; just remember that.

As per what further stages we'll see, that's an easy question. The answer is "none". We have all 103 stages that will not be DLC.

 

[Noipoi]

Speaking of stages, what new stages do you guys think we’ll see?

I personally think we’ll see a Doki Doki Panic stage since Imajin is practically confirmed.

You're really gong all in with this joke, huh?
I'd like to see Ultra Space, and Cascade Kingdome, Mount Volbano or Honeylune ridge.

 

[joshoctober16]

Speaking of stages, what new stages do you guys think we’ll see?

I personally think we’ll see a Doki Doki Panic stage since Imajin is practically confirmed.

i just notice... doki doki panic character alts for the mario characters....

also.. about doki doki literature club , it has more chance then what people think , if im correct the maker of that is a huge smash fan and made some hacks for it as well, if im correct

also imagen if stage builder is back, your able to use EVREY background from any stage for it... would be somthing i wish for...

 

[ReeseBalaski]

You know what I want more of? Personalized victory quotes. You know, like how the Star Fox, FE, and Kid Icarus characters sometimes have stuff to say to characters of the same series if they win?

I wanna know what Chrom's gonna say to Robin or Lucina if he wins, or Marth for that matter. Maybe Richter would say something to Simon. Maybe Pit can trash talk back to Pittoo this time? Maybe ZSS can express her disdain for Ridley or Dark Samus being invited?

Stuff like that is the best.

 

[MainJPW]

I have a wierd thought.... what if there was a newcomer that's just a original "made-for-smash" character? Not from like Subspace or anything, but like a brand new character made specifically for the game...

Even then, what would they look like?

I don’t know why, and I know you said no Subspace, but I’d imagine they’d design something similar to the Primids.

Spoiler

Not the same but fairly similar. These guys were pretty common, too.

 

[Idon]

Arena Ferox is probably legal (not worse than the PS stages)...and never disrespect AF like that ever again

So ****ing realistic compared to Snake

With all our options with the new toggle, I seriously doubt Arena Ferox is going to be legal.

...And Arena Ferox sucks

 

[Dixie Kong]

While I haven’t played the games yet, it would be cool to see Gunman Clive in Smash.

 

[Zinith]

We had Woolly World legal in like our very first local tournament. It played really badly. In addition to walk-off fun and the constant camp when the ground went away, when the ground was present the middle was a mini-cave of life. I had the fun of fighting a Lucario there. It was hard. It's probably not removed for gameplay reasons (many worse stages exist), but I'm guessing it's just too heavy on the processor and that the ground wobbling and the general detailed yarn textures are actually pretty substantial. Every stage must play nice with stage morph in an 8 player smash; just remember that.

As per what further stages we'll see, that's an easy question. The answer is "none". We have all 103 stages that will not be DLC.

There's no evidence for the stage being too heavy on the processor. The Switch has ways to make games work on both docked and handheld mode (such as reducing textures and such). And if a stage like Paper Mario can can in with stage morph and 8-Player Smash in effect, why's Woolly World any different?

 

[Will]

With all our options with the new toggle, I seriously doubt Arena Ferox is going to be legal.

...And Arena Ferox sucks

Arena Ferox was legal in 3DS I think

 

[Johnknight1]

Lol. Ryu is one thing(even though I disagree), But how in the hell would anyone think Villager, Mega Man and Little Mac could be generic?

If these people knew anything about Boxing, they'd know it's an unique fighting style with many variations. Since Little Mac's game is about that, his moveset writes itself, and no one else is a true boxer in the game.

Mega Man, you just need to play his games to get an idea of how he could fight.

Villager being a peaceful...well villager isn't exactly common in fighting games.

Exactly my point. People just don't play the games or have the creative cogs to understand that "x isn't y." So many Smash speculators pre-Smash 4 were convinced Mega Man would be a Samus clone... because they obviously never played a Mega Man game.

And it is a similar case with Villager and Little Mac. That's why I don't put a lot of stock into it.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

question but what is that giant brain thing in brinstar? since the stage is remade... it dosnt look like mother brain... so what is it?

It is supposed to be Mother Brain. Melee had a...weird artstyle.

You sure?

That's Motherbrain?

I was about to say, just another fleshy otherworldy alienish sack of dangerous organic material like the others you see in the Metroid games (no big deal).

 

[Smash80s]

they should make the n64 system a playable character with the remotes attached to it as hands. The system that started it all

 

[Idon]

Arena Ferox was legal in 3DS I think

A lotta **** was legal in 3ds. Stage selection was barren.
I'm going to say Arena Ferox isn't going to be legal for the Ultimate version.

 

[Shroob]

Exactly my point. People just don't play the games or have the creative cogs to understand that "x isn't y." So many Smash speculators pre-Smash 4 were convinced Mega Man would be a Samus clone... because they obviously never played a Mega Man game.

And it is a similar case with Villager and Little Mac. That's why I don't put a lot of stock into it.

God, don't remind me.

"Megaman would just be a Samus clone" was one of the worst arguments I'd ever heard.

 

[joshoctober16]

There's no evidence for the stage being too heavy on the processor. The Switch has ways to make games work on both docked and handheld mode (such as reducing textures and such). And if a stage like Paper Mario can can in with stage morph and 8-Player Smash in effect, why's Woolly World any different?

im starting to think yoshi is a DRUG for you, well to be honest yoshi island is my fave gameboy advance game , played it sooo much
but yoshi stage isnt the thing you should be complaining about its the characters , i mean for a alt we could have boshi , baby bowser could be a bowser jr alt?
and Kamek infact Kamek was my fave mario character for over 3 years in the past
and of course poochy
a simple fix for the yoshi characters , 2 new characters and 2 new alts.

 

[Zinith]

im starting to think yoshi is a DRUG for you, well to be honest yoshi island is my fave gameboy advance game , played it sooo much
but yoshi stage isnt the thing you should be complaining about its the characters , i mean for a alt we could have boshi , baby bowser could be a bowser jr alt?
and Kamek infact Kamek was my fave mario character for over 3 years in the past
and of course poochy
a simple fix for the yoshi characters , 2 new characters and 2 new alts.

Don't worry about me. Woolly World is the only Yoshi stage that was cut so it's not the end of the world. It's just that it's exclusion is not very clear cut like the others...

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Also, none of them are legal, but that's a personal issue.

Well if the hazards switch prevents transformations and leaves Castle Siege stuck on its initial form, it should be legal.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Not only with the absurd stage list and hazard toggle being a thing, but with music being organized by series now and not stage...The music we hear is gonna be so much more varied. It's great.

 

[L9999]

You know what would be cool with Yoshi? If he was able to eat items with his Neutral B, store it as an egg and being able to shoot it straight foward by pressing B again like Mario 64 DS. That way his B can be useful against non casuals.

Arena Ferox is probably legal (not worse than the PS stages)...and never disrespect AF like that ever again

So ****ing realistic compared to Snake

As someone who played Smash 3DS I can tell you that Arena Ferox would not be legal in Ultimate. The stage has serious issues with camping, has an infamous cave of life, the statue transformation eats projectiles, and it has various spots in which you can get cheese kills, like the platform that can kill you of a missed tech or the close ceiling. It was only legal for the sole reason of variety and not having a Rock Paper Scissors of FD, BF and Yoshi's. Same goes with Prism Tower, that stage only exists for cheese and not getting dull with 3 stages, which is ironic as Smash Wii U got even duller with Trashville: The Game.

 

[Smash80s]

While I haven’t played the games yet, it would be cool to see Gunman Clive in Smash.

It would be cool if they made the n64 system a playable character with the remotes attached to it as hands. The system that started it all

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

There's no evidence for the stage being too heavy on the processor. The Switch has ways to make games work on both docked and handheld mode (such as reducing textures and such). And if a stage like Paper Mario can can in with stage morph and 8-Player Smash in effect, why's Woolly World any different?

Just look at Woolly World versus Paper Mario. Graphically Woolly World is way higher fidelity with textures that put Paper Mario's to shame, and Woolly World has the ground ripple which is actually a really, really expensive effect that would be twice as bad in Smash Ultimate with its dynamic lighting and shadow casting engine having to constantly recalculate all that. The transformation between two forms doesn't matter so much; it's more the graphics and the effects and the total amount of stuff that you need loaded (Paper Mario is probably one of the notably easier stages computationally in intense matches I'd guess because its graphic style is so simple). Woolly World was also limited to 4 players in Smash Wii U even after the patch that expanded 8 player smash options so it's probably a reasonable guess that it's actually one of the more intensive stages in the game. Orbital Gate Assault was probably removed for about the same reason.

And yes, they could reprogram it to dynamically change how its effects work based on if it's docked or in handheld or how many players there are or whether there's a stage morph or whatever. That's also a lot of work and they put in 103 stages which is a ton, and who knows how Woolly World is actually programmed to know if changing how all that works is even realistic. It would not be hard to believe that under the hood the stage was a mess and would have needed completely remade and thus they decided to simply allocate the resources elsewhere, a decision made easier by the fact that they have every other Yoshi stage already and that Yoshi's Woolly World was not a successful game.

 

[Will]

Well if the hazards switch prevents transformations and leaves Castle Siege stuck on its initial form, it should be legal.

I don't think Castle Siege has hazards. I think Smash needs to define what a hazard specifically is.

 

[Johnknight1]

Dry Bowser should just be a costume.

The fact it's not kind of makes me want DLC costumes for characters

You all missed the true tragedy:

Mr. L is not a Luigi alternate costume.

Truly a war crime against all of humanity.

 

[FurretBro]

God, don't remind me.

"Megaman would just be a Samus clone" was one of the worst arguments I'd ever heard.

Geno would just be a Mii Gunner clone, man.

 

[UltimateWario]

You sure?

That's Motherbrain?

I was about to say, just another fleshy otherworldy alienish sack of dangerous organic material like the others you see in the Metroid games (no big deal).

That stage in general is an absolute mess.

I am 99.9% sure whoever modeled/designed that stage had never played a Metroid game in their life and was just told “make it dark and gross and sci-fi like Alien” and they popped that thing out. None of Brinstar’s areas look anything like that and there aren’t any huge brains except momma herself. Honestly if they just would’ve greened it up in Ultimate and made the brain sack thing into Spore Spawn it would’ve been great.

Brinstar Depths is equally as nonsensical as Kraid is fought in an overgrown area and judging by Crocomire probably wouldn’t fare well taking a dip in magma.

Brawl’s Metroid stages are much better but I wish they’d stop doing the “sci-fi platform floating out in front of the environment instead of making the stage take place IN the environment” thing.

Oh well, too late to whine now. Maybe we’ll get a pretty stage from one of Prime 4’s areas as DLC.

 

[Zinith]

Just look at Woolly World versus Paper Mario. Graphically Woolly World is way higher fidelity with textures that put Paper Mario's to shame, and Woolly World has the ground ripple which is actually a really, really expensive effect that would be twice as bad in Smash Ultimate with its dynamic lighting and shadow casting engine having to constantly recalculate all that. The transformation between two forms doesn't matter so much; it's more the graphics and the effects and the total amount of stuff that you need loaded (Paper Mario is probably one of the notably easier stages computationally in intense matches I'd guess because its graphic style is so simple). Woolly World was also limited to 4 players in Smash Wii U even after the patch that expanded 8 player smash options so it's probably a reasonable guess that it's actually one of the more intensive stages in the game. Orbital Gate Assault was probably removed for about the same reason.

And yes, they could reprogram it to dynamically change how its effects work based on if it's docked or in handheld or how many players there are or whether there's a stage morph or whatever. That's also a lot of work and they put in 103 stages which is a ton, and who knows how Woolly World is actually programmed to know if changing how all that works is even realistic. It would not be hard to believe that under the hood the stage was a mess and would have needed completely remade and thus they decided to simply allocate the resources elsewhere,

That's all fair. There are stages that still made it in despite the 4-Player limitations in the Wii U version, but okay.

a decision made easier by the fact that they have every other Yoshi stage already and that Yoshi's Woolly World was not a successful game.

Whoa there!!!

 

[Omega Tyrant]

I don't think Castle Siege has hazards. I think Smash needs to define what a hazard specifically is.

The hazards switch will probably prevent Castle Siege from transforming, as far as I'm aware in the E3 demo it prevented stages from transforming, such as preventing Frigate from flipping.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

With all our options with the new toggle, I seriously doubt Arena Ferox is going to be legal.

...And Arena Ferox sucks

I’m gonna reach the end of the long road and destroy you for saying that...and if Pokémon Staduim 1 can be legal, than there’s nothing stopping the best FE stage from being legal

As someone who played Smash 3DS I can tell you that Arena Ferox would not be legal in Ultimate. The stage has serious issues with camping, has an infamous cave of life, the statue transformation eats projectiles, and it has various spots in which you can get cheese kills, like the platform that can kill you of a missed tech or the close ceiling. It was only legal for the sole reason of variety and not having a Rock Paper Scissors of FD, BF and Yoshi's. Same goes with Prism Tower, that stage only exists for cheese and not getting dull with 3 stages, which is ironic as Smash Wii U got even duller with Trashville: The Game.

We just had two Bayos stall at EVO and you got the PS1+2 stages that are also easy to camp on...also pretty much any stage but those two specifically

 

[Johnknight1]

Commentators were me, Moon, and

You guys commentate the matches

I drop rhymes like I'm creating poetry out of the times
I speak truth so fine you swear it was divine
I give the answers to the questions you never had
I give knowledge and understanding because I can

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Arena Ferox is probably legal (not worse than the PS stages)...and never disrespect AF like that ever again

So ****ing realistic compared to Snake

I'm kinda confused with the compared to Snake thing...