Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[KMDP]

Clamoring for Goku to be in Smash is one thing

but to straight out say that i'd be a disgrace to add a certain character in instead of goku is just foolish

note that I have never ever played persona, so bias is out of the question.

Also, if Cloud can get in Smash on the technicality that he's appeared in Nintendo-based spinoffs (Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories and Theatrhythm: Final Fantasy), then Makoto Yuki (P3 Protag), Yu Narukami (P4 Protag) or Joker can appear in Smash on the technicality of having appeared in Persona Q.

 

[WaxPython]

Also, if Cloud can get in Smash on the technicality that he's appeared in Nintendo-based spinoffs (Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories and Theatrhythm; Final Fantasy), then Makoto Yuki (P3 Protag), Yu Narukami (P4 Protag) or Joker can appear in Smash on the technicality of having appeared in Persona Q.

Well same logic can be applied to Goku then but the company with his rights is also a dev for smash

 

[Deleted member]

Well same logic can be applied to Goku then but the company with his rights is also a dev for smash

The company who owns his game rights. If they want to include Goku in Smash, they'd have to go through everyone else who owns the Dragon Ball IP first.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Well same logic can be applied to Goku then but the company with his rights is also a dev for smash

I don't recall Shueisha being involved with Ultimate...

 

[KMDP]

Well same logic can be applied to Goku then but the company with his rights is also a dev for smash

Goku isn't a Video Game original character; the Persona characters are.

 

[Megadoomer]

Well same logic can be applied to Goku then but the company with his rights is also a dev for smash

Not really - Namco-Bandai only has the rights for making Dragon Ball games, but they don't own the entire series (whereas Square-Enix completely owns Final Fantasy).

It would be like saying that Commander Shepard from Mass Effect getting in means that we could also get Darth Vader - EA may be able to make video games for both series, but there's a huge difference between the two.

 

[osby]

Also, if Cloud can get in Smash on the technicality that he's appeared in Nintendo-based spinoffs (Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories and Theatrhythm: Final Fantasy), then Makoto Yuki (P3 Protag), Yu Narukami (P4 Protag) or Joker can appear in Smash on the technicality of having appeared in Persona Q.

Thanks for the details and reminding me how much I want one of them in Smash.

 

[WaxPython]

Goku isn't a Video Game original character; the Persona characters are.

So what? If Sakurai was considering adding James Bond in melee it's clear a technicality like that wouldn't stop Goku from being added in.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Sega is Atlus' parent company so a persona character is not too far fetched.

Not that I expect a sega rep 'sides shadow for the base roster

 

[KMDP]

So what? If Sakurai was considering adding James Bond in melee it's clear a technicality like that wouldn't stop Goku from being added in.

He considered adding James Bond, but didn't.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Well same logic can be applied to Goku then but the company with his rights is also a dev for smash

*inhales deeply*

B️️oi.

Goku is from a manga. Persona is a video game. Smash is about video games. Manga =/= video games

 

[osby]

So what? If Sakurai was considering adding James Bond in melee it's clear a technicality like that wouldn't stop Goku from being added in.

"Considering" and "adding" are two different things.

Also, afaik, Sakurai didn't compared James Bond with Sponge Bob to show how ridiculous his inclusion would be.

 

[WaxPython]

Not really - Namco-Bandai only has the rights for making Dragon Ball games, but they don't own the entire series (whereas Square-Enix completely owns Final Fantasy).

Yes and Namco is making Smash Bros ultimate so I see no problem, technically smash bros ultimate is a namco developed game so they should be able to add in Goku as they have the legal rights to do so unless there's a clause in the licensing agreement stipulating they can't which I doubt.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Yes and Namco is making Smash Bros ultimate so I see no problem, technically smash bros ultimate is a namco developed game so they should be able to add in Goku as they have the legal rights to do so unless there's a clause in the licensing agreement stipulating they can't which I doubt.

Someone would get their ass fired at Bamco if they tried to add Goku. Bamco doesn't own all the rights to Dragon Ball.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Not sure if this has been shown here already, but I'll let you all make your choices first.

Bandana Dee (5) + Isaac (5) + Gardevoir (2) + Ninten (2) + Steve (1)

 

[MSmariosonic]

Yes and Namco is making Smash Bros ultimate so I see no problem, technically smash bros ultimate is a namco developed game so they should be able to add in Goku as they have the legal rights to do so unless there's a clause in the licensing agreement stipulating they can't which I doubt.

I don't think that's how licensing works.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I don't understand why you guys are trying to argue with a guy who has proven they refuse to listen and even pulled the "No you just misunderstood me" card. James Bond was considered but Sakurai said that there were issues, those being 'grown up stuff', which is either all the sex anyone with the codename gets or the legal rights ****ery

 

[Deleted member]

Doesn't mean they'd code it that way every time, they could use shorthand or transliteration for characters to ease their work since they'd have to write them out more for playable characters, remember pra_mai (most believe to be Plusle & Minun transliterated & shortened) in Brawl and Marth has been coded as Mars before too.

True, but from Brawl onwards, he's been "marth" exclusively. If they were to shorten it, I'd expect something more like "krool" or "samusd." Other name shortenings tend not to use the Japanese. pra_mai is the expection at this point.

Diddy Kong = "diddy" not "didi"
Donkey Kong = "donkey" not "donki"

Also, some internal names can get pretty long, like "pokefushigisou," "pokezenigame," "miiswordsman," or "metaknight," all of which are longer than "kingkrool."

Regardless, the internal names are the least of this "leak's" issues. It's just another possible inconsistency on top of an impossible story.

 

[Majora's Visage]

Yes and Namco is making Smash Bros ultimate so I see no problem, technically smash bros ultimate is a namco developed game so they should be able to add in Goku as they have the legal rights to do so unless there's a clause in the licensing agreement stipulating they can't which I doubt.

I would rather see Lloyd or Heihachi for another Namco rep.

 

[WaxPython]

I don't think that's how licensing works.

'NAMCO BANDAI Games Obtains All Platform Rights for Dragon Ball® Videogames'

https://www.businesswire.com/news/h...O-BANDAI-Games-Obtains-Platform-Rights-Dragon

A seperate developer made shonen force which has Goku in it and was merely published by Namco.

I'm fairly certain Namco has the legal capacity to include Goku in smash and even if they didn't it wouldn't be very hard to get him in.

I think he deserves to be in smash, his biggest games have been on Nintendo consoles, unlike persona or final fantasy recently.

Fighter Z on switch is amazing

 

[MSmariosonic]

I partialy blame myself for changing the topic of this thread so drastically

Just gonna put an oldie here:

Goku is way too often mentioned in this thread then necessary.

 

[Cosmic77]

I can't believe i'm saying this but I legit think Ridley is too big to be on the box art.

Or perhaps there's another reason :v

Size probably wasn't the issue that held him off the box art. They could easily shrink Ridley's artwork and have other characters overlap him to make it seem like he's far away. That's why Mario and Link look so gigantic while Charizard is super tiny.

If I had to take a guess, they may have thought Ridley wasn't iconic enough to be featured on the box art over others. Though that doesn't really explain why Ness and ICs are on it.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Size probably wasn't the issue that held him off the box art. They could easily shrink Ridley's artwork and have other characters overlap him to make it seem like he's far away. That's why Mario and Link look so gigantic while Charizard is super tiny.

If I had to take a guess, they may have thought Ridley wasn't iconic enough to be featured on the box art over others. Though that doesn't really explain why Ness and ICs are on it.

Ness and IC are Smash staples. Ridley isn't. It's as simple as that

 

[Deleted member]

which is either all the sex anyone with the codename gets

Is that what his Final Smash would've been?

And yeah, I know Final Smashes aren't in Melee...

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

'NAMCO BANDAI Games Obtains All Platform Rights for Dragon Ball® Videogames'

https://www.businesswire.com/news/h...O-BANDAI-Games-Obtains-Platform-Rights-Dragon

A seperate developer made shonen force which has Goku in it and was merely published by Namco.

I'm fairly certain Namco has the legal capacity to include Goku in smash and even if they didn't it wouldn't be very hard to get him in.

I think he deserves to be in smash, his biggest games have been on Nintendo consoles, unlike persona or final fantasy recently.

Fighter Z on switch is amazing

Imma be real with you WaxPython

If you're trying to say that Persona doesn't deserve to be in Smash because Goku should be in as well, this ain't it.

 

[KMDP]

Also, adding James Bond and Goku to Smash would be a licensing nightmare.

Here's a list of everyone you've got to talk to and/or pay to get the rights to Bond... (I'll only cover the at-the-time-current James Bond stuff)

1. The Estate of Ian Fleming for the rights to use the character at all
2. Pierce Brosnan to use his likeness
3. Eon Productions, to use any visuals they used in the films
4. Whoever you get to voice James Bond, if you don't use a sound-alike and actually use Brosnan, this is even more expensive.

With Goku you've got to communicate with and pay:

1. Bird Studio (basically Akira Toriyama)
2. Shueisha
3. Toei Animation
4. Masako Nozawa and Sean Schemmel, and multiple others in any languages Smash is translated to.

If you were to get, say, Joker, you'd need to talk to/pay:

1. Atlus
2. Jun Fukuyama and Xander Mobus (the voice actors)

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Also, adding James Bond and Goku to Smash would be a licensing nightmare.

Here's a list of everyone you've got to talk to and/or pay to get the rights to Bond... (I'll only cover the at-the-time-current James Bond stuff)

1. The Estate of Ian Fleming for the rights to use the character at all
2. Pierce Brosnan to use his likeness
3. Eon Productions, to use any visuals they used in the films
4. Whoever you get to voice James Bond, if you don't use a sound-alike and actually use Brosnan, this is even more expensive.

With Goku you've got to communicate with and pay:

1. Bird Studio (basically Akira Toriyama)
2. Shuiesha
3. Toei Animation
4. Masako Nozawa and Sean Schemmel, and multiple others in any languages Smash is translated to.

If you were to get, say, Joker, you'd need to talk to/pay:

1. Atlus
2. Jun Fukuyama and Xander Mobus (the voice actors)

Also Xander Mobus is also the announcer for Smash 4/Ultimate so it's probably cheaper to get him to VA than Goku.

 

[osby]

Also Xander Mobus is also the announcer for Smash 4/Ultimate so it's probably cheaper to get him to VA than Goku.

Jun Fukuyama also voices Roy, right? Interesting...

makes cunning noises

 

[Deleted member]

1. The Estate of Ian Fleming for the rights to use the character at all
2. Pierce Brosnan to use his likeness
3. Eon Productions, to use any visuals they used in the films
4. Whoever you get to voice James Bond, if you don't use a sound-alike and actually use Brosnan, this is even more expensive.

Not also talking to Rare for the rights to use content from the game like the music? Weak. If we're going through the legal nightmare of actually getting Bond, you gotta do it right.

 

[WaxPython]

My point about James Bond is that he was considered despite not originating from a video game. That simple don't read too much into it why he wasn't included, the fact that he was considered is enough.

ROB is a toy and didn't appear in any video games yet is in smash without a stage.

Don't assume that Sakurai won't bend the rules especially for someone like Goku.

My argument is that he's appeared in more Nintendo games than persona and his latest in the main series is on switch. Is persona V on switch?

If Cloud gets in because of his popularity Goku could easily do the same and with the DBZ reference in the smash trailer, as well as the close ties with Namco. I can easily see goku being in smash and imo he's more deserving than someone like Geno or Persona guy due to his popularity, relevance, and hype factor.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Honestly, I don't see Persona getting in. I think we've hit the max for reps on 3rd parties. I think it's 2 per company now and Bayo would have had to be cut in order to get someone from Persona.

 

[KMDP]

Not also talking to Rare for the rights to use content from the game like the music? Weak. If we're going through the legal nightmare of actually getting Bond, you gotta do it right.

I was thinking, "Should I add Rare to that list?"

Obviously I should have.

 

[Cosmic77]

Ness and IC are Smash staples. Ridley isn't. It's as simple as that

So is Jigglypuff, but that doesn't necessarily mean I think it would be a better choice than someone who was added in Smash 4 or Ultimate.

Ridley is no Mario, but I think he's been just as much of a Smash icon as some of the other veterans. No other character has managed to garner as much speculation and controversy in the Smash fanbase as Ridley.

 

[Iridium]

Harassment, blackmail, infected users who don't show full support of Daisy with malware. I'm pretty sure he's done far more things I'm unaware of...

I edit pages on SmashWiki, and I think I do see him there from time to time. We don't talk, but still.

 

[UltimateWario]

For the team’s sake I’m really glad our universe isn’t the one where the madmen decided to put Bond in Melee and now have to negotiate the infinite hell that would be resecuring his rights for Ultimate.

To be fair though that universe has probably also had Banjo and Kazooie since Melee. And Wario as a Mario Semi-Clone which I would actually kind of prefer.

 

[Deleted member]

I was thinking, "Should I add Rare to that list?"

Obviously I should have.

No point in getting Bond if I don't get my Frigate theme.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

I can easily see goku being in smash and imo he's more deserving than someone like Geno or Persona guy due to his popularity, relevance, and hype factor.

Geno and Persona are video games. Goku isn't. It's as simple as that.

 

[MSmariosonic]

ROB is a toy and didn't appear in any video games yet is in smash without a stage.

What

dude, I can't even



Yo i'm dropping this topic

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

For the team’s sake I’m really glad our universe isn’t the one where the madmen decided to put Bond in Melee and now have to negotiate the infinite hell that would be resecuring his rights for Ultimate.

I imagine it was hellish in our universe to get Snake back.

 

[KMDP]

My point about James Bond is that he was considered despite not originating from a video game. That simple don't read too much into it why he wasn't included, the fact that he was considered is enough.

ROB is a toy and didn't appear in any video games yet is in smash without a stage.

Don't assume that Sakurai won't bend the rules especially for someone like Goku.

My argument is that he's appeared in more Nintendo games than persona and his latest in the main series is on switch. Is persona V on switch?

If Cloud gets in because of his popularity Goku could easily do the same and with the DBZ reference in the smash trailer, as well as the close ties with Namco. I can easily see goku being in smash and imo he's more deserving than someone like Geno or Persona guy due to his popularity, relevance, and hype factor.

ROB is a Nintendo product that is intrinsically tied to Video Games. R.O.B. has historical significance to Nintendo because it helped Nintendo to market the NES as a toy and not a computer (which was what Video Games were considered back in the 80s), marketing the NES as a toy allowed them to sell the console. After the Video Game Market Crash of 1983, nobody would touch video games at all.