Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Scoliosis Jones]

Honestly, I'm getting fed up with both Verge and Loz at this point. Both of them are spitting out random newcomers without providing so much as a simple explanation as to why we should believe their sources. Then, to make matters worse, we start seeing fishy behavior behind the scenes. Verge PMs other reliable sources so he can verify his leaks just so his credibility doesn't get damaged, and now we might be looking at Loz deleting his Twitter account because of either (1) he wants to make it seem like Nintendo deleted it, or (2) he's not confident in his source.

Sorry if this sounds like a rant, but I just wish these two would provide more info besides, "Incineroar and Skull Kid could be in Smash!" They're not stating which of their sources made the claims and what these sources have gotten right before. We're basically trusting them to be correct because of their short record with this game.

If I have to make a leap of faith on a character, I'd rather have some supporting evidence to fall back on. That's all I'm asking for.

Well I mean...that's how leaks work. Yeah, some people can be bull****ters. A leaker can't just tell you who their source is though because then that implicates everybody.

You can't really trust just anybody on the internet. Vergeben at the very least has attempted to verify his sources because he does care about his credibility, whether we like him or not as a person. if he told a random person on GameFAQS, "My source is...", there is absolutely nothing stopping that random user from posting that for the world to see, thereby potentially ruining a persons career.

loz18 is a bit different, as he hasn't really shown anything to produce enough credibility. Even worse is that ridiculous Gardevoir/Gothitelle leak that is based on an entirely outrageous story from a random user.

Out of any leaker, whether we like it or not, Vergeben is our best lead. Also, mind you, just because a leaker misses a character doesn't mean they're making it up. Back around Brawl, two different leakers had the information but thought the other was fake. As it turned out, both sides had different parts of the same roster.

Leaks are almost never simple.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Well I mean...that's how leaks work. Yeah, some people can be bull****ters. A leaker can't just tell you who their source is though because then that implicates everybody.

You can't really trust just anybody on the internet. Vergeben at the very least has attempted to verify his sources because he does care about his credibility, whether we like him or not as a person. if he told a random person on GameFAQS, "My source is...", there is absolutely nothing stopping that random user from posting that for the world to see, thereby potentially ruining a persons career.

loz18 is a bit different, as he hasn't really shown anything to produce enough credibility. Even worse is that ridiculous Gardevoir/Gothitelle leak that is based on an entirely outrageous story from a random user.

Out of any leaker, whether we like it or not, Vergeben is our best lead. Also, mind you, just because a leaker misses a character doesn't mean they're making it up. Back around Brawl, two different leakers had the information but thought the other was fake. As it turned out, both sides had different parts of the same roster.

Leaks are almost never simple.

But loz had a surprisingly accurate moveset description of Inkling before E3. That's worthy of SOME merit

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Despite Sakurai's claims on keeping the 64 stages as nostalgic as possible, Mushroom Kingdom got a very drastic change to look more like SMB1.

Makes me think Mushroom Kingdom Melee ain't gonna happen if there are more stages.

 

[blackghost]

W

Woah, woah, OK. So there's a lot to unpack here. Just let me put on my reading glasses... OK, we're all set. First of all, I never said Geno was the only character who was likely as a result of this trend. Rather, I was responding to somebody else who brought that up, and was specifically referring to Geno. Second of all, Geno is easily one of the most highly requested characters I can really think of, and has been since before Smash 4 was released. If you'd rather other characters that's fine, but you have completely missed the point of what was simply my response to somebody's observation. And now let's talk about a complete non-sequitur on your part, regarding your short rambling on the subject of the inclusion of Chrom. At least, I assume you mean Chrom and that there was not a new character revealed named Chrome and nobody bothered to tell me. Anyway, so you say Chrom is a bad character. We have never seen nearly enough to gauge that. The general public has yet to get to play as him any. His recovery doesn't look that great, but it's certainly not awful. Characters with worse recovery have been very much viable. You mention that nobody will want to play him because of this, not even in "serious casual play" which is a self-contradictory term, and I personally don't think that makes much sense.

seriois casual play os when people play beyond tournament rules but are still trying to win. having some items on, using more stages, in smash 4 using custom moves. there are MANY ways to play this game beyond what many people here act like. with other factors added in you need recovery options and no character in smash history has survived long term in a metagame with mediocre horizontal recovery. But hey if he's the first more power to him. When i say medicore horizontal recovery for chrome i mean none. zip. he cannot move sideways in the air from a special move only airdrift. that is awful and there is no precedent that a character in smash can do well like that. that wasnt a rant or speculation.

geno is highly requested among the some of the older fans yes. but after you get under age 25 he drops off like a rock. as previoisly mentioned multiple times. he's a plot device with little to no personality and compared to rpg characters in spm, tales of, or final fantasy there seem to me to be better options.
sepiroth fits the heroes and villains trope better. Heihachi and ryu can easily be rivals. honestly, i dont see the appeal in his potential moveset, the attraction people have to the charatcer (i get king k, i get Ridley) not this dude that i had never heard of prior to smash u speculation.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

st lead. Also, mind you, just because a leaker misses a character doesn't mean they're making it up. Back around Brawl, two different leakers had the information but thought the other was fake. As it turned out, both sides had different parts of the same roster.

Leaks are almost never simple.

Even the infamous Gematsu leak was correct.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

no character in smash history has survived long term in a metagame with mediocre horizontal recovery.

would like to have a word with you.

 

[Deleted member]

Loz leaked the trailer for Bandana Dee and it started with him punching a nazi and a terf, that's why his twitter is gone now

Oh good, Bandana Dee is the trans icon Smash deserves. I'm maining him.
Actually, the whole Korby cast punches nazis and terfs, that's what they did in Star Allies, isn't it?

 

[dezeray112]

In regards to Vergeben and loz18, I still think there is something although it will be best to wait and see what the next three months before release will have in store to determine whether their claims are legit or not.

 

[blackghost]

I'm hating the "Heroes vs Villains" thing because people are acting like it's a real over-arching theme when it's not. K.Rool is the only one whose trailer was themed in such a way(titled "Rivals").
?

did you miss the Samus vs. ridley trailer? essentially the same concept was used for both of these trailers. For me, it pushes the chances for skull kid up a lot. once is an incident, twice is coincident, three is a pattern. but we may only get three trailers.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I don't think this has been discussed.

View attachment 158297

Watttt?

Has there been any news if this is credible or not??

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

did you miss the Samus vs. ridley trailer? essentially the same concept was used for both of these trailers. For me, it pushes the chances for skull kid up a lot. once is an incident, twice is coincident, three is a pattern. but we may only get three trailers.

Both Ridley and K. Rool got in because of their popularity, not because of an overarching theme of "Heroes vs. Villains"

As to why that theme is in their trailers... well, how could it not? They're famous for being the main antagonist of their franchise, so of course they'd put them against their archnemesis.

It's why Mario was also in the Bowser Jr. trailer for Smash 4, because it wouldn't have felt right without him.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

There's been something brewing inside me for the past few days, and I really think I need to get it out now.

Leaks aren't leaks anymore, they're just lists of characters that people actually want. You don't have to back up your claims or provide essential evidence, just list the characters most people want and publish it on GameFAQs or 4chan and watch as a bunch of gullible people start making YouTube videos about it.

The more I think about it, the more I realize the last legit leak was the ESRB leak back in Smash 4, because that had screenshots, videos, and a reasonable background. Everyone else is trying to get those Etika internet points.

 

[Pyra]

I don't think this has been discussed.

View attachment 158297

Lol is that the same render of Skull Kid with the random purple snake

 

[AlphaSSB]

I think LoZ18 and Vegeben have some credibility to them, since some of what they've said thus far has been true.

But they've both made multiple claims, with each backed by various sources. Some of what they've said could be false information given to them by their 'sources', or they could be jumping to conclusions and hiding behind 'sources' they don't actually have. Not sure about LoZ18's track record, but Vergeben has gotten plenty wrong from his 'sources' in the past.

I mention this specifically because although they have gotten things right thus far, there's still plenty of room for error. As far as I'm concerned, things are still up in the air towards who the new Pokemon newcomer is, if Isabelle is in the game or not, or if Skull Kid and Isaac are just relevant topics being brought up and they want in on it.

 

[P.Kat]

****, FIVE? That's way more than what Protector has. I, uhm, th-the 17 Saber supporters will help me, to war!

At least that 2 More than the Amaterasu supporters, granted I'm also a Saber supporter, but still...

 

[Opossum]

hey guys there are no dk newcomers in smash ultimate!!!

I just want to point out that Verg never actually said this. He was suspicious of the claim from the start due to where it came from.

The only reason it's known at all is because loz leaked a PM where Verg asked him if he'd heard anything about it.

 

[blackghost]

would like to have a word with you.

in what world is limit climbhazard medicore horizontal recovery?

 

[Pyra]

I just want to point out that Verg never actually said this. He was suspicious of e claim from the start due to where it came from.

The only reason it's known at all is because loz leaked a PM where Verg asked him if he'd heard anything about it.

Oh, I know. I was playing on the fact that some people tend to hold everything he says in some kind of high regard despite even his own view of its legitimacy.

In other words, we should probably get a spray bottle to get people off of his leg... haha.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

in what world is limit climbhazard medicore horizontal recovery?

A Limit Break Climhazzard has horizontal recovery, yes. However, it's extremely situational because you need to have the Limit Gauge filled. Plus, by using it you need to refill the Limit Gauge again, since you wasted it on recovery.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

in what world is limit climbhazard medicore horizontal recovery?

In a world where Cloud mains would rather use Limit Cross Slash instead because it's undoubtedly the single most broken move in Smash history.

In other words, this one.

EDIT: Also, what MamaLuigi said

 

[Guybrush20X6]

The Gardevoir/Gothitelle leak has to at least be considered as it is one of few "leaks" that survived a direct but there's no reason to entirely discard it.

Either it's right or it's an amazing co-incidence, like that book about the Titanic sinking before the Titanic sank.

The sooner Gardevoir is seen, Pokeball or playable, the better. I never thought I'd be in the same spot the Ridley fanbase has been this whole time.

 

[Diddy Kong]

No, you literally didn't.

Marth has a good moveset to clone however.

He's already the template character for Sword Lords in Fire Emblem. Roy and Lucina are already examples, but got more to work with.

Leaf for example could make a good Marth Echo. Give him less range with the sword but like Lucina has even damage all over, and give him a projectile attack as a sort of triangular energy attack as in FE5 and that's a good and faithful Echo.

Seliph can be another Marth Echo with.. I dunno what sort of gimmick. Give him more power less speed or something and a horse based Final Smash.

Seeing as Marth already has moves based on FE4 and FE5's combat animations, Leaf and Seliph would make much sense to be Echoes.

That being said, Alm could make a good Echo of Ike. And use Marth's tipper mechanic maybe. Throw a few unique animations as his D Air attack and maybe another F Smash and use the Neutral B of one of the Links, Up B like Marth then he makes as much sense as Chrom being Roy's Echo. Quick Draw being Echoed by a similar combat animation of FE Shadows of Valentia. Double Lion I believe.

Personally I think Alm being a Echo of Ike like this is a better idea than Celica being a Robin Echo. Even tho am not against that idea either.

 

[Deleted member]

there's no reason to entirely discard it.

Except that the story is completely unbelieveable, and the supposed filenames don't match those in Smash 4.

 

[Kuon]

Oh good, Bandana Dee is the trans icon Smash deserves. I'm maining him.
Actually, the whole Korby cast punches nazis and terfs, that's what they did in Star Allies, isn't it?

What's this about Bandana Dee being trans?

 

[XenoWarriorX]

I don't think this has been discussed.

View attachment 158297

I'm calling it fake. Something about color scheme, as well as the way some of the squares aren't properly aliighed with one another.

I think LoZ18 and Vegeben have some credibility to them, since some of what they've said thus far has been true.

But they've both made multiple claims, with each backed by various sources. Some of what they've said could be false information given to them by their 'sources', or they could be jumping to conclusions and hiding behind 'sources' they don't actually have. Not sure about LoZ18's track record, but Vergeben has gotten plenty wrong from his 'sources' in the past.

I mention this specifically because although they have gotten things right thus far, there's still plenty of room for error. As far as I'm concerned, things are still up in the air towards who the new Pokemon newcomer is, if Isabelle is in the game or not, or if Skull Kid and Isaac are just relevant topics being brought up and they want in on it.

I don't know, but so far, there is a lot of "leaks" going around, and they could be wrong or they could be right.

That's why it's best to ignore them.

 

[Deleted member]

did you miss the Samus vs. ridley trailer? essentially the same concept was used for both of these trailers. For me, it pushes the chances for skull kid up a lot. once is an incident, twice is coincident, three is a pattern. but we may only get three trailers.

Except it wasn't? Having a villain character with their hero isn't a "Heroes vs. Villains" theme, it's about their OWN dynamic, not anyone else. K.Rool was because there was a ****ing montage of other heroes fighting their villains before he appeared and it was literally titled "Rivals". There's no reason to believe it's a theme for the game as a whole, especially when none of the new villains were included for being viilains

 

[blackghost]

A Limit Break Climhazzard has horizontal recovery, yes. However, it's extremely situational because you need to have the Limit Gauge filled. Plus, by using it you need to refill the Limit Gauge again, since you wasted it on recovery.

clouds recovery is weak. the difference with him vs chrom is cloud can stall with his side b in the air allowing for more drift and good cloud players has limits to recover or kill when they need it. they manage the resource.
chrome has marth side b which doesnt more than likely doesnt air stall. in agame with weaker magnet hands, chrome has no way to move horizontally in the air or airstall. Watch ike play, just count the number of times ike would die or nearly die if he couldn't use side b. its most of his stocks. chrome will be in that position. I dont know why im getting pushback on this. my original post did say medicore but chrom doesnt even have medicore horizonatal recovery he has none. He has no way to move horizontally in the air except for an airdodge and that will get punished overtime.

 

[NextChannelGames]

There's been something brewing inside me for the past few days, and I really think I need to get it out now.

Leaks aren't leaks anymore, they're just lists of characters that people actually want. You don't have to back up your claims or provide essential evidence, just list the characters most people want and publish it on GameFAQs or 4chan and watch as a bunch of gullible people start making YouTube videos about it.

The more I think about it, the more I realize the last legit leak was the ESRB leak back in Smash 4, because that had screenshots, videos, and a reasonable background. Everyone else is trying to get those Etika internet points.

I agree, all these leaks look more like the popular characters that fans want then actually a leak like the ESRB which was crazy when that happened...

 

[Blue7113]

What's this about Bandana Dee being trans?

In his trailer he will be fighting terfs and nazis

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

clouds recovery is weak. the difference with him vs chrom is cloud can stall with his side b in the air allowing for more drift and good cloud players has limits to recover or kill when they need it. they manage the resource.
chrome has marth side b which doesnt more than likely doesnt air stall. in agame with weaker magnet hands, chrome has no way to move horizontally in the air or airstall. Watch ike play, just count the number of times ike would die or nearly die if he couldn't use side b. its most of his stocks. chrome will be in that position. I dont know why im getting pushback on this. my original post did say medicore but chrom doesnt even have medicore horizonatal recovery he has none. He has no way to move horizontally in the air except for an airdodge and that will get punished overtime.

Because recovery is clearly the only factor when it comes to viability.

 

[Deleted member]

What's this about Bandana Dee being trans?

He is, Cutie Gwen can confirm it for me

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Lol is that the same render of Skull Kid with the random purple snake

View attachment 158338

Actually... I've been brought up a very good possibility for that snake yesterday on Discord by Golden...

What if it isn't a snake?

 

[ErenJager]

Well if they can negotiate just for trophies (Rayman), assist trophies (Shovel Knight) and whatever Minecraft is getting assuming Vergeben's correct. And as shown by the requests Sakurai got for Spongebob, it seems Japan isn't too picky on whether a character is Japanese made or not.

Well, every playable character ever in any Smash game has been owned by a Japanese video game company. It's yet to be seen a western owned property has become playable.

 

[Kuon]

He is, Cutie Gwen can confirm it for me

Oh I don't doubt it, I've just never heard of this before. Has he always been trans in the games? Is it canon?

 

[Pyra]

Actually... I've been brought up a very good possibility for that snake yesterday on Discord by Golden...

What if it isn't a snake?

10/10 I'm happy to be wrong holy ****

Ooh, a discord...

 

[Kotor]

I believe this meme goes for all of us in the fandom.

I'm rooting for you, Shantae, and I always will be.

Yep. Three of the Five I want from that picture are perfectly accurate. I got no love for Shantae or Viridi. I'd swap them with Rex & Pyra and .... I wanna say Dixie, but she really can't get any flak because K. Rool's already in. I guess Phoenix Wright. It'd go like this.

Rex & Pyra: "They're too new for Smash!" / "Their designs weren't finalized until late 2016!"

Phoenix Wright: "Capcom doesn't deserve three characters!"

 

[Kuon]

In his trailer he will be fighting terfs and nazis

Because of what loz18 said, right?

 

[Heracr055]

I personally don't think Gardevoir (or Skull Kid) are happening. It'd be nice in the former case, and I'd be indifferent in the latter.

 

[Arcadenik]

Which Mushroom Kingdom do you like best?

Smash 64 version or Ultimate version or the one from Melee?

For me, it is Melee > Smash 64 > Ultimate.

 

[Pyra]

Because of what loz18 said, right?

Hate to break it to you, but Loz said nothing like that, and I'm 130% sure that was a joke.