Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Lady Byakugan]

Did anyone else notice how the Pirate Ship now has 3D islands in the background?

 

[Next Door Dog]

Smashdown will have to have some way to handle the characters not dividing out. There will be DLC, people might play it without unlocking all of the characters, and it will probably be compatible with 8 player smash and the smallest number that would be divisible by every possible player count is 840 which seems like an overly optimistic roster estimation to me.

What we don't know is if Smashdown even prevents dittos at all. If it merely removes characters used in the previous match without forbidding dittos, there's no divisibility problem. Even if there's only one character left at the end, that just means every player must use that character in the final game. If dittos are generally forbidden and there's some selection order stuff in place to guarantee orderly character picking, then whoever has to pick from the pool of zero characters probably either resets into the next Smashdown round and gets the massive benefit of a fresh selection or just is forced redundantly into whatever the last pool of characters was to double up (like in a 3 player Smashdown, if the last two characters are Lucario and Pit, p1 picks freely, p2 gets the other, p3 also picks freely between Lucario and Pit). I don't think it will be a huge issue, but certainly, an evenly numbered roster would be quite the positive.

To add to this, this dilemma might only arise in the event of ties. If there are less characters than players, the mode may just declare the winner of the most rounds the winner of Smashdown.

 

[Shoopdawooper]

So here is a theory that I've been thinking about in terms of how many more newcomers we are looking to get.

Smashdown is a new mode that Sakurai revealed will be a part of Super Smash Bros Ultimate and it involves players going through the roster and locking out previously used characters. From what we've seen this can go up to 4 players (could be potentially 8, but that isn't confirmed). What this suggests to me is that whatever the final roster is, it will have to be divisible be 3 and 4 so as to allow a full run of Smashdown to be possible.

Currently we have a total of 67 unique fighters. If we subtract the two extras form Pokemon Trainer we bring to total down to 65. Mii Fighters are not currently available in Smashdown (according to the Direct) so we can take 3 more from that total number, giving us 62. Now, adding in the echo fighters we are left with 68 total roster slots available for Smashdown. This number isn't currently divisible by both 3 and 4, the next number that is is 72.

So my reasoning is that the lowest possible number of characters we will be seeing is 4, which could be any combination of echoes and newcomers. The interesting point about this is that the next number after 72 that is divisible by 3 and 4 is 84! So if we get more than 4 characters for Smashdown to work we'd need a total of 16 more fighters, again in any combination of echoes and newcomers.

Now that seems crazy to me, but an interesting point to consider.

So, I've seen this argument floating around several times now, and I understand the wanting to grasp at any possible indicator for speculations 's sake. But honestly, there are so many ways this could be solved without having a divisible by 4, 3, number of fighters. Easiest of which is just ending/resetting the smashdown round when the last round with sufficient characters has been played. Sure, it might irk some people who are fond of neat logical satisfying completion kind of things. But it would work fine for the mode to function.

Another option would be te make previous used characters playable again in just the right order. I mean. There are so many solutions. And there isn't even also really a need for a problem, because for all we know, the developers don't care about us being left with 3 character in 4 player smashdown. That situation would rarely happen anyway seeing the large number of characters.

Finally, even if we assume the developers cared about this, and even if they went for the difficult solution in creating extra characters just so a mode would have a smooth ending, instead of any number of easier solutions, what would happen then, should DLC come out?

So TLDR; I wouldn't look too much into this smashdown mode predicting any number of fighters.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Thinking over how the different 3rd parties are working, with most to least input.

Capcom: You want Mega Man, done. Ryu? Done. A rathalos? Those are popular these days, done!
Konami: You want Snake back? We'll do you better and throw in a couple Belmonts
Namco: Sure, you can use the entire Arcade library. Just don't change Pac-Man's colors
Sega: Sure but if Sonic's colors look even a mite like another one of his pals we're out.
Square: You got Cloud. What more do you want?!

 

[Zinith]

Thinking over how the different 3rd parties are working, with most to least input.

Capcom: You want Mega Man, done. Ryu? Done. A rathalos? Those are popular these days, done!
Konami: You want Snake back? We'll do you better and throw in a couple Belmonts
Namco: Sure, you can use the entire Arcade library. Just don't change Pac-Man's colors
Sega: Sure but if Sonic's colors look even a mite like another one of his pals we're out.
Square: You got Cloud. What more do you want?!

Actually Konami's more like "WE GIVE YOU WHATEVER YOU WANT!!! WE ARE DESPERATE FOR GOOD PUBLICITY!!!"

 

[osby]

Thinking over how the different 3rd parties are working, with most to least input.

Capcom: You want Mega Man, done. Ryu? Done. A rathalos? Those are popular these days, done!
Konami: You want Snake back? We'll do you better and throw in a couple Belmonts
Namco: Sure, you can use the entire Arcade library. Just don't change Pac-Man's colors
Sega: Sure but if Sonic's colors look even a mite like another one of his pals we're out.
Square: You got Cloud. What more do you want?!

SEGA (read, Platinum Games) was pretty cool about Bayonetta's colours. We also got numerous tracks, a couple Assist Trophies and even a Smash Run enemy.

 

[Cosmic77]

So...

I have realized two things...

1. We have absolutely no idea if there will be trophies in this game. You'd think we're hear them by now.
2. We have now idea if CDs are in the game. Will we unlock music or have it all at the start?

Not sure about CDs, but we know Mew is in the game, and right now she does absolutely nothing when you summon her. Not a direct confirmation that trophies are returning, but there's probably some type of collectible that hasn't been discussed yet

 

[Curious Villager]

Did anyone else notice how the Pirate Ship now has 3D islands in the background?

Yeah I love that added detail. Outset Island is among them too.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

SEGA (read, Platinum Games) was pretty cool about Bayonetta's colours. We also got numerous tracks, a couple Assist Trophies and even a Smash Run enemy.

Yeah, the gulf between Sega and Square Enix's co-operation is massive. But Sega still has some issues like having only one Sonic remix.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Sega is cool about Bayonetta's colors because at this point they're pretty much bio parents whose kid was put in the foster system and is with a better family. There's not really much they can veto at this point I'd say with her.

 

[Deleted member]

When you think about it, Skull Kid as a Zelda newcomer makes sense.

Because, when we speak of the regular Zelda characters outside of the Triforce trio, there's Impa, who can make in as a echo, Tingle, who returns as a stage element and likely as an AT as well, Vaati, who is now a forgotten character mostly known under his monsterous form, and also Skull Kid.

And Majora's Mask (the item) is now one of the most recurring artifacts in the series as well along with the Triforce itself, also making camoes in other Nintendo games such as Animal Crossing.

Now the question is, what his moveset would consist of? And wouldn't having the Moon as his FS wouldn't be kinda redundant?

 

[osby]

Sega is cool about Bayonetta's colors because at this point they're pretty much a bio parents whose kid was put in the foster system and is with a better family. There's not really much they can veto at this point I'd say with her.

There's also this: Bayonetta can cosplay as Daisy, Link or even Fox in her games. I don't think they are super strict about her design.

 

[WaxPython]

I have to be honest. If Bayonetta is in smash, Shantae deserves to be as well as the indie rep.

The creators would be over the moon to see her in smash and although I'm not a fan of the series and never played the games I've done some research and I would be very happy to see her in smash.

A very deserved inclusion imo

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I have to be honest. If Bayonetta is in smash, Shantae deserves to be as well as the indie rep.

The creators would be over the moon to see her in smash and although I'm not a fan of the series and never played the games I've done some research and I would Beverly happy to see her in smash.

A very deserved inclusion imo

Plus Pichu wouldn't be the lone Game Boy Color rep anymore
(fanart of Shantae hugging Pichu goes here)

Speaking of Zelda, I think there's chance ther series could get three reps this time.
Skull Kid, Hilda and Impa. Maybe Tetra as Toon Link Echo?

 

[Deleted member]

I really can't see Hilda happening, she ain't popular so her addition wouod feel more like it's just for the sake of it and not really add anything in terms of requested characters or interesting fighters

 

[Pyra]

I really can't see Hilda happening, she ain't popular so her addition wouod feel more like it's just for the sake of it and not really add anything in terms of requested characters or interesting fighters

I'm in the "I want unlockable costumes" camp, and I feel like Hilda would be a good candidate for that.

 

[Jetsurge]

So if Incineroar is in will he have the crotch flame?

 

[Dragoncharystary]

I have to be honest. If Bayonetta is in smash, Shantae deserves to be as well as the indie rep.

The creators would be over the moon to see her in smash and although I'm not a fan of the series and never played the games I've done some research and I would Beverly happy to see her in smash.

A very deserved inclusion imo

Shantae is one of the characters I really don't want in the game, but even I have to admit that if she gets in, it's a spot well deserved.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

So if Incineroar is in will he have the crotch flame?

If you can't be a literal fire crotch what is the point?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I have to be honest. If Bayonetta is in smash, Shantae deserves to be as well as the indie rep.

The creators would be over the moon to see her in smash and although I'm not a fan of the series and never played the games I've done some research and I would Beverly happy to see her in smash.

A very deserved inclusion imo

I mean, Shovel Knight didn't get to be playable. I highly doubt any indie character would get to be playable after that

 

[osby]

I mean, Shovel Knight didn't get to be playable. I highly doubt any indie character would get to be playable after that

I mean, Bayonetta became playable before Simon.
Is there really any rule with guests?

 

[Jetsurge]

I mean, Shovel Knight didn't get to be playable. I highly doubt any indie character would get to be playable after that

Especially because Shovel Knight was more popular than Shantae and he basically is the indie character at this point. If any indie ever got in it would be Shovel Knight.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I mean, Bayonetta became playable before Simon.
Is there really any rule with guests?

Wax said Shantae should be the Indie rep. If the Indie game character who became so popular there appeared in ****ing everything couldn't make it in, I highly doubt Shantae could either

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I mean, Bayonetta became playable before Simon.
Is there really any rule with guests?

Bayonetta is practically Nintendo's IP now though. I really doubt even if they lost interest there's much Sega could do. How are you going to put Bayonetta 4 or 5 on PS and XBox systems if Nintendo owns Bayo 2 and 3 for example?

I don't think Bayonetta really got in as a guest character, she got in as this oddball Nintendo case. Because let's be real if Nintendo hadn't made Bayonetta 2. I very much doubt my girl would even still be in the public spotlight at the moment.

 

[Pyra]

I mean, Shovel Knight didn't get to be playable. I highly doubt any indie character would get to be playable after that

A case can be made for Shantae. Since indie characters have never been in Smash, we actually don't really have a precedent to compare to in terms of what Shovel Knight being in means.

Some people think that because SK is an assist trophy, that means that no indie characters will be playable. I think that's a fair judgement! Don't get me wrong. Nobody really knows otherwise, and since Shovel Knight is one of the most, well, prolific and popular indie game characters today, so it makes to me that people would think that.

I don't personally count her out though. I think that, maybe, Shovel Knight is the AT and Shantae, (or Quote, really), is playable.
Shantae was first released on the Game Boy Color in 2002. I think that fact alone gives Shantae a few points over Shovel knight- she's much older and premiered on a Nintendo device. I don't remember about her Brawl following, so I can't speak on if she had one, but I wouldn't be surprised. I think she was "the other" indie character that got support in addition to Shovel Knight in Smash 4, though shovel knight was definitely louder.

But like I said, I understand the flip side. Why would they put a character not nearly as immediately popular as Shovel knight in as a playable fighter if Shovel Knight himself wasn't able to make it? The only way we'll really know for sure is by waiting to see if something happens.

I just don't think we have really anything to go off of for this right now, and even if we did, it's not like these "rules" never get broken anyway.

What would be cool is if Shovel Knight ended up getting a boss fight in story mode... Plague Knight or something would be a fun boss fight hahaha


This is a very early morning musing of mine, again, and I'm sure we all know I tend to say something totally wrong during those so sorry in advance hahaha. I did read over this twice, though...

 

[drag0nscythe]

I believe it has been discussed before, but given AT's are now attackable, I bet they have a second purpose now. Being Mini Bosses.

Hear me out. The new mode is speculated to be a melee style adventure mode with Big bosses at the end. AT's could be sub bosses in those stages.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Interesting leak about Spirit Mode:

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/427715081#q427715081

So I had a chance, along with a few others, to try out Smash Ultimate’s Spirits mode.
Yes, as everyone has guessed Spirit mode is connected to the boss fights we see in the trailers.

>At the beginning of the game Spirit mode is locked, to unlock it you have to play through classic mode once with one of the original eight smash 64 characters.
>When you first open up Spirit mode you are to choose up to four characters.
>When the game begins the game mode is that of something right out of an RPG maker, and I don’t mean like trying to capture something like a zeldda game but instead it looks like something like the OG Copse Party game, according to someone we were talking with they wanted to get a “washed out” feeling for the game.
>The first “rpg” little map seems to be straight up the boys room from the opening sequence of Smash 64, makes sense as those characters are the first ones available.
>The only thing you can do is go through the bedroom door which is known as a “Spirit Gate” and boy that’s where this gets fun.
>In Spirit mode, there are a total of eight spirit gates that you can enter each one with one of three smash fights: Hero Spirits, Rival Spirits, and Boss spirits. Each one is pretty self explanatory: Hero gives you the chance to face heros (Snake, Sonic, Pichu) Rivals gives you the villains (Ganon, Mewtwo, Dedede) and Boss spirits (Dracula)
>What follows after those is a RPG map of the same franchise. What I mean is if you say get “Pikachu” spirit fight then next “rpg map” you get is a pokemon one like a downgraded version of Saffron City (as you are to most likely face Pikachu in the Saffron city stage). Each map has a puzzle to solve and items (either in Pokeballs, Zelda chests, Mario ! boxes, etc) to easily get Trophies, Music, or coins to use in Slots. After you solve the puzzle a new gate opens. The chances of what gate you get seems a bit random, but I got one playtrhough with: 2 bosses, 3 hero spirits, and 3 rival spirits.
>To unlock characters you have to collect “spirits.” When you either beat a Hero spirit or Rival spirit their spirits are then added to your team but you can only have up to 8 characters in your party (meaning you can have 7 spirits in your party if you only choose one character at the beginning) and whatever spirits you have at the end of the game mode you unlock. Though if any are “KO’d” you lose the chance to unlock the said character for that playthrough. “Rival Spirits” can only be collected by their corresponding hero (ie. King K. Rool can only be collected by Donkey Kong.)
>Rayquaza, Porky, and Petey Pirannah returns from Brawl as their franchises corresponding boss in boss spirits. Not every franchise gets a boss though (ie. Pac-man) but it does seem like most do. I don’t know much about Metal Gear Solid but I do know a Metal Gear appears.
>While the spirits are random using different combination of characters can influence what you get to fight (ex. Having both Simon and Richter on your team has a stronger chance of getting Dracula boss spirit).
>What is actually great is that under the right circumstances you can activate “Spirit Memories” where you have a cinematic cut scene that is inspired from the franchises. Some I noticed are:
>PKMN Trainer vs Rayquaza - You get a “Wild Rayquaza appears” as well as “PKMN trainer sends out Squirtles.” Beating Rayquaza as PKMN trainer gets a cinematic of Red throwing out a pokeball to capture him)
>Team of: Fox, Falco, Grenninja, R.O.B vs Wolf – You get a cutscene of Team Star Fox going against crossing paths Team Wolf
>Beating Bowser with Mario gets you a “I’m sorry but your Princess is in another castle” scene with Toad.
>Samus vs Ridley- You get a scene that is close to that of the Ridley reveal trailer.
>Spirit mode ends with a final fight against a new “Master” character called “Master Spirit.” Nice design I think.
>We didn’t get a chance to see it but we were told that if you beat Spirit Mode after unlocking all the characters we get a new secret ending.

And that’s really all I can think of. All that was left was we were presented with the first look at an upcoming character. While I won’t spoil it , I will say that it is part of the horror genre of gaming.

The last bit of the leak got me interested, but you probably know why.

 

[Pyra]

I believe it has been discussed before, but given AT's are now attackable, I bet they have a second purpose now. Being Mini Bosses.

Hear me out. The new mode is speculated to be a melee style adventure mode with Big bosses at the end. AT's could be sub bosses in those stages.

I kinda want whatever Wario's branch/path/section in the story to start with a dramatic cutscene with Waluigi only to have him be defeated almost immediately

 

[Zinith]

I believe it has been discussed before, but given AT's are now attackable, I bet they have a second purpose now. Being Mini Bosses.

Hear me out. The new mode is speculated to be a melee style adventure mode with Big bosses at the end. AT's could be sub bosses in those stages.

If that ends up being true, watch Waluigi become the first sub-boss and thus the weakest

 

[Pyra]

Interesting leak about Spirit Mode:

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/427715081#q427715081



The last bit of the leak got me interested, but you probably know why.

That... wait
That sounds really fun and I'm kinda sad that this is probably fake

 

[Roberto zampari]

Only need Banjo Kazooie as a playable character and everyone's life is complete with this newest Smash Bros game.
Anyone agrees?

 

[drag0nscythe]

Only need Banjo Kazooie as a playable character and everyone's life is complete with this newest Smash Bros game.
Anyone agrees?

And Goemon.
Then my Life is complete.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Interesting leak about Spirit Mode:

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/427715081#q427715081



The last bit of the leak got me interested, but you probably know why.

idk how real this is but I WANT, PLEASE

 

[T-Hell]

Just passing by to check my new signature made of character icons. And while I'm at it, I can't wait for Sakurai to unveil that secret mode, I really hope it's something similar to Adventure/SSE/Smash Run or a mix of them.

 

[AzureFlame4]

Only need Banjo Kazooie as a playable character and everyone's life is complete with this newest Smash Bros game.
Anyone agrees?

Honestly Banjo Kazooie getting in would make it feel complete for me. After that the only character I'd super want would be Phoenix Wright and I don't foresee that ever actually happening.

 

[max_0888]

Hello to all,
Just joined the forum. So hyped for the new Smash game. Having new characters confirmed like K. Rool and Ridley gives me hope for other Snes classic characters.

Super Mario RPG and FF6 are my two fave games of all time.
Gotta love the popularity for Geno. Definitely thinks he has a shot. Hopefully, Mallow as an Assist trophy too and a stage for the game.

As for FF6, chances are slim that Terra might be in, but i'm still hoping. Celes was my fave in the game, so if she could be echo to Terra, this would just be too much to handle haha. I know Cloud got in, but FF6 was on SNES so the link with Nintendo is bigger imo.

Dixie Kong, Tails and Captain Toad would be great also!

 

[Roberto zampari]

What need to make everyone's life complete in the Smash Bros Ultimate?
Newcomer characters from older games or just an Adventure mode?

 

[Pyra]

Hello to all,
Just joined the forum. So hyped for the new Smash game. Having new characters confirmed like K. Rool and Ridley gives me hope for other Snes classic characters.

Super Mario RPG and FF6 are my two fave games of all time.
Gotta love the popularity for Geno. Definitely thinks he has a shot. Hopefully, Mallow as an Assist trophy too and a stage for the game.

As for FF6, chances are slim that Terra might be in, but i'm still hoping. Celes was my fave in the game, so if she could be echo to Terra, this would just be too much to handle haha. I know Cloud got in, but FF6 was on SNES so the link with Nintendo is bigger imo.

Dixie Kong, Tails and Captain Toad would be great also!

Welcome to the conversation.
Don't feel afraid to speak your mind and present crazy theories, and don't really pay mind to people who try to put you down for 'em.
That being said, I don't know much about FF6 but I'd be super happy with a Mallow trophy.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

When you think about it, Skull Kid as a Zelda newcomer makes sense.

Because, when we speak of the regular Zelda characters outside of the Triforce trio, there's Impa, who can make in as a echo, Tingle, who returns as a stage element and likely as an AT as well, Vaati, who is now a forgotten character mostly known under his monsterous form, and also Skull Kid.

And Majora's Mask (the item) is now one of the most recurring artifacts in the series as well along with the Triforce itself, also making camoes in other Nintendo games such as Animal Crossing.

Now the question is, what his moveset would consist of? And wouldn't having the Moon as his FS wouldn't be kinda redundant?

I've mentioned this earlier, but if Riki is an assist and in a final smash, so can the Moon.

Skull Kids Final Smash would probably be a cutscene with the Moon crashing into Termina, sort of like King K. Rool blowing up the island. Skull Kid could also get the Major final form thing...but that's more a Majora thing then a Skull Kid thing.

Interesting leak about Spirit Mode:

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/427715081#q427715081



The last bit of the leak got me interested, but you probably know why.

While this sounds fun, the whole matching certain characters for cutscenes seems really off...especially the Greninja and Rob counting as Star Fox characters. Sounds too meta.

Plus obligatory, we got a chance to play it somehow and I'm in no fear of leaking very specific details.

 

[Deleted member]

If any Goku fans want a safe place to post, I made a thread for us!

The man who just wants to fight strong guys - Son Goku warps into the fray with Kamehameha!