Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Wambo]

Sakurai should've put a placeholder saying "Waluigi will never be in Smash"

Sakurai also should've put different colored chairs behind him.

 

[UltimateWario]

Man, replaying the Prime 3 Dark Samus fight, I'm just like "that coulda been a smash move... that one too... oh that would be sick as a smash mocve."

In my experience it just helps to think “It could have been much, much worse”. We could’ve gotten a Brawl model swap with Lucario Aura effects.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Man, replaying the Prime 3 Dark Samus fight, I'm just like "that coulda been a smash move... that one too... oh that would be sick as a smash move."
Uuuugh, if this is the last smash and this is how Dark Samus is doomed to be, I'm gonna be disappointed.

I completely understand where you're coming from I really do, as I argued against her being an echo, but the fact that she's even in the game as playable after being gone for over 10 years is amazing to me.

 

[Enchess]

There's no types of anything. People either know a character or they don't. I'm sure there were plenty of Fortnite kids out there who didn't know who the hell Simon or K.Rool were when they watched their reveals.

Remember, we're talking about a game that has MR. GAME & WATCH in it. Nobody knew who the hell he was back in the Melee days, whereas more people would've probably recognized Geno. Your point doesn't make any sense. :/

Of course there are types of relevancy. There's a reason we got Game and Watch as playable and not say the G&W octopus. In terms of general relevancy, they are effectively equals since so few people know either. We go G&W instead though because he's the one you play as. Any time you hear anyone rooting for a character for an as-of-now unrepresented series and they choose the main character, that's the two types of relevancy at work.

Geno is not the most relevant character in his own game, which is hardly relevant within it's own series.

Seriously though, if relevancy didn't matter period, we'd all be talking characters from obscure niche games who have amazing moveset potentials. We'd rarely choose the main characters of a series. Heihachi would definitely be considered unlikely compared to Yoshimitsu. Isabelle wouldn't be taken so seriously (you keep hearing "face of the series" from arguments, not "amazing potential" whether or not she has that).

 

[Will]

Man, replaying the Prime 3 Dark Samus fight, I'm just like "that coulda been a smash move... that one too... oh that would be sick as a smash move."
Uuuugh, if this is the last smash and this is how Dark Samus is doomed to be, I'm gonna be disappointed.

It's either a clone or nothing at all.
Your choice.

 

[UltimateWario]

Sakurai also should've put different colored chairs behind him.

What I don’t understand is that even if the chairs do mean something, they’re Wario’s colors, not Waluigi’s, so it makes it seem even more desperate than it already is.

 

[Mutsukki]

I'm starting to think the "2 song thing" is Nintendo's weirdness, not Square's.

Cloud debuted in a game outside of a Nintendo console. I can imagine some Nintendo guy was like, "okay, you can put in Cloud because he's the icon for the Final Fantasy series. But you can't advertise the crap out of FF7, especially with the remake coming up."

I feel like it's a "talking about your ex a lot" situation. You can acknowledge FF7, but don't constantly talk about how much better it is.

It's absolutely not. Square-Enix is notorious for being absolutely thight about their music appearing in anything. I'm sure Sakurai and the rest of the Smash composers would be pleased as hell to be able to remix stuff from other games on the franchise and to have more appearing

 

[Dee Dude]

https://imgur.com/gallery/vMHFg8Q


So looks like someone's finally completely depixelated the Spirits logo

Sonic Heroes mode confirmed.

....No seriously, that Spirits logo looks like it came straight out of Sonic Heroes.

 

[DarkFalcon]

What I don’t understand is that even if the chairs do mean something, they’re Wario’s colors, not Waluigi’s, so it makes it seem even more desperate than it already is.

People who support Skull Kid have more of an argument than Waluigi, and even then it's still based on freakin pillows and chairs.

 

[Idon]

In my experience it just helps to think “It could have been much, much worse”. We could’ve gotten a Brawl model swap with Lucario Aura effects.

Yeah, on the bright side, DS coulda been another Lucina or Dark Pit.

 

[Will]

Sakurai should've put a placeholder saying "Waluigi will never be in Smash"

haha yes the waluigi so bad haha sure yes the upmost hilarious and original content

Sonic Heroes mode confirmed.

....No seriously, that Spirits logo looks like it came straight out of Sonic Heroes.

It's a pretty generic symbol actually. I've seen it elsewhere outside of that game, but not quite sure where exactly.

 

[Idon]

It's either a clone or nothing at all.
Your choice.

Listen, when you change all her effects, animations, voicelines, models, everything that isn't the actual move itself, I'm going to assume you at least had a tiny bit of time to copy paste some moves from an assist trophy.
I mean come on, that's more than the Melee clones initially.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

It's a pretty generic symbol actually. I've seen it elsewhere outside of that game, but not quite sure where exactly.

Looks like a flipped Magatama from the Phoenix Wright series, which is apparently inspired by real life as many have told me.

 

[NintenRob]

The closest thing to a series villain for Metroid, the most well known character from a legendary series, another main protagonist of said legendary series that's extremely popular with the series fan base, and another main villain of a well-loved series. There are different tiers of relevancy. K Rool has always be more on Isaac's level (even then more relevant than Isaac) whereas Geno I'd argue is lower than even Saki.

That said, there are two types of relevancy. Relevancy to modern gaming and relevancy within series. Every (unique) character so far is very strong in the latter (which I've always argued matters more than the former). Geno is strong in neither.

Also I didn't mean moveset potential was worse than Waluigi. Ive always thought Waluigi had nothing to offer whereas Geno sounds like a ton of fun to play. I mean Waluigi never seemed likely for intra-series relevancy, and Geno has THAT much worse.

Speaks the truth.


I feel A LOT of people are setting themselves up for major disappointment.

 

[Will]

Listen, when you change all her effects, animations, voicelines, models, everything that isn't the actual move itself, I'm going to assume you at least had a tiny bit of time to copy paste some moves from an assist trophy.
I mean come on, that's more than the Melee clones initially.

What moves? She summoned tentacles and shot Phazon, techincally one of thems already her neutral special

 

[Wambo]

I'm prolly gonna come off as a jerk for saying this, but honestly I'm too tired to keep going back and forth:

Screw the points against him. Geno is in Smash and he was probably easier to put in than most people think. Relevancy isn't an issue and despite being a side character, he's still incredibly cool. There's also still the thing with the mech toy that Sakurai bought, and there are some good arguments out there that suggest it points to Geno.

#TeamGeno
(^ Let's not forget that NoA tweet from a few months ago)

 

[osby]

Looks like a flipped Magatama from the Phoenix Wright series
View attachment 157217

Magatama is a pretty common jewelry and spiritual symbol sometimes used in fantasy works.
Makes me curious, Sakurai's inspirations tend to be sci-fi than anything.

 

[Enchess]

Looks like a flipped Magatama from the Phoenix Wright series
View attachment 157217

Well, if we're taking chairs as a hint, then we might as well take this as Wright confirmed.

On that note, was thinking a little about it and wouldnt it make a lot of sense if Nintendo employees have furniture in their offices based on their companies characters? That seems pretty plausible and explains everything fairly well.

 

[Mutsukki]

Looks like a flipped Magatama from the Phoenix Wright series
View attachment 157217

A magatama from the real world series*

Those things actually exist and it's pretty commonly associated with spirits.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

https://imgur.com/gallery/vMHFg8Q


So looks like someone's finally completely depixelated the Spirits logo

Calling it, Sakurai will have this be a story mode that involves as the key player to the whole thing, as he and others who have either barely survived (or) or have no idea about the attack on heroes (), as they save the likes of and many more from the villains lead by someone who is exactly Tabuu...or someone even stronger

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm prolly gonna come off as a jerk for saying this, but honestly I'm too tired to keep going back and forth:

Screw the points against him. Geno is in Smash and he was probably easier to put in than most people think. Relevancy isn't an issue and despite being a side character, he's still incredibly cool. There's also still the thing with the mech toy that Sakurai bought, and there are some good arguments out there that suggest it points to Geno.

#TeamGeno
(^ Let's not forget that NoA tweet from a few months ago)

Or he might not be. Relevancy is obviously a poor argument, especially for a 3rd party(and the fact that this game is clearly catering to the fanbase, probably mostly ballot-wise). But it doesn't mean he's in. There's no way around the idea that SE could just say no. And that's the end of that.

I don't think they will and feel he's likely in, but he may not be. People need to be prepared for that possibility. This happens.

 

[Nonno Umby]

Can we just stop pretending that Ridley and the Belmonts mean something about the "relevancy doesn't matter"?

Ridley has always been a huge part of the Metroid series, even if there were no new Metroid games back in 2015 (except a spin off, and I'm also quite sure that Samus Returns was in development since 2014) Ridley would have been on the next main game. He is the third most recurring character in the series, behind only Samus and the Metroids. It's no different from when Diddy Kong joined Brawl even if there weren't new DKC games around that time.

And the Belmont...the series isn't dead. In fact in Japan they released this year a new mobile game. Which also feature both Simon and Richter. For some of you mobile games aren't real games, but it shows that the series is still active. Besides all this, Castlevania made history, so being such a classic it doesn't really need a game every year. It's just like how when Mega Man was added in Smash For, except that Mega Man was probably in a even worse situation.

The only real irrelevant characters today are King K. Rool (who can always being brought back in the DK/Mario series) and Dark Samus, an easy clone requested by many who wanted a new Metroid rep but though Ridley would have been impossible.

 

[Will]

(^ Let's not forget that NoA tweet from a few months ago)

They own the game, just not Geno. They have a right to celebrate it without trying to hint at something. Earthbound and F-Zero get the same treatment but do you see these new games? Mhm, that overconfidence will kill you.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Relevancy does matter.

If they've been highly requested for year or if they've made it high in the polls, that makes them relevant.

 

[Enchess]

I'm prolly gonna come off as a jerk for saying this, but honestly I'm too tired to keep going back and forth:

Screw the points against him. Geno is in Smash and he was probably easier to put in than most people think. Relevancy isn't an issue and despite being a side character, he's still incredibly cool. There's also still the thing with the mech toy that Sakurai bought, and there are some good arguments out there that suggest it points to Geno.

#TeamGeno
(^ Let's not forget that NoA tweet from a few months ago)

You don't come off as a jerk at all. It's cool, I get it. Personally, I've yet to see evidence relevance within series has stopped mattering, but sometimes patterns break. I tend to speculate assuming they won't cuz it's too chaotic for me to form conclusions if I don't have patterns to follow.

I do think Geno would be fun, so don't worry, I won't start any crap on here with Geno fans if he does get in.

 

[UltimateWario]

haha yes the waluigi so bad haha sure yes the upmost hilarious and original content

There’s an old saying about cookware that I think is relevant here.

 

[Dee Dude]

As someone who desperately wants Spirits to be SSE 2 or at the very least a brand new cinematic story.

I’m a little worried by the title, it’s simply called “Spirits” which doesn't really bring out an action-adventurous vibe, it makes it sound more like a series of mini games involving ghosts or something.

If it was called something like “The Spirit Emissary” or “Rise of the Spirits”, I’d be a little hopeful.

 

[osby]

Can we just stop pretending that Ridley and the Belmonts mean something about the "relevancy doesn't matter"?

Ridley has always been a huge part of the Metroid series, even if there were no new Metroid games back in 2015 (except a spin off, and I'm also quite sure that Samus Returns was in development since 2014) Ridley would have been on the next main game. He is the third most rwcurring character in the series, behund only Samus and the Metroids. It's no different from when Diddy Kong joined Brawl even if there weren't DKC games around that time.

And the Belmont...the series isn't dead. In fact in Japan they released this year a new mobile game. Which also feature both Simon and Richter. For some of you mobile games aren't real games, but it shows that the series is still active. Besides all this, Castlevania made history, so being such a classic it doesn't really need a game every year. It's just like how when Mega Man was added in Smash For, except that Mega Man was probably in a even worse situation.

The only real irrelevant characters today are King K. Rool (who can always being brought back in the DK/Mario series) and Dark Samus, an easy clone requested by many who wanted a new Metroid rep but though Ridley would have been impossible.

Still, both Belmonts and Ridley are using their classic designs. Nothing much, but it shows they're meant to please the old fans of their games, not new ones.
(Though, I guess, reverse of this argument can be made for Daisy)

 

[DarkFalcon]

I'm just gonna say NEVER think your character is a shoe in. If you do and they end up not being in that can lead to some extremely toxic interactions. Sakurai is clearly listening to the fans though, but I feel like Geno is purely SE's decision. I think he'd have ended up in the game long ago if Sakurai had his way.

 

[Wambo]

I don't think they will and feel he's likely in, but he may not be. People need to be prepared for that possibility. This happens.

I feel like people should be preparing themselves more for Spirits. Everyone is expecting it to be the next Subspace and I'm betting it's going to be less than Melee's Adventure mode.

Personally, I feel like Geno is just as likely as Spirits being Event Match with a sexy name and menu screen.

 

[Onua]

How would yall feel about the black knight as an echo?

 

[Shroob]

I'm just gonna say NEVER think your character is a shoe in. If you do and they end up not being in that can lead to some extremely toxic interactions. Sakurai is clearly listening to the fans though, but I feel like Geno is purely SE's decision. I think he'd have ended up in the game long ago if Sakurai had his way.

Tell me about it.

I remember "Wolf's a shoe in for DLC!"

Yeah that didn't end very well did it.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Guys spirits refers to the old spirits of smash, the past games. It is a mode that allows you to play updated versions of 64 to Brawl.




What do you want from me I'm desperate here

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I feel like people should be preparing themselves more for Spirits. Everyone is expecting it to be the next Subspace and I'm betting it's going to be less than Melee's Adventure mode.

Personally, I feel like Geno is just as likely as Spirits being Event Match with a sexy name and menu screen.

That's fair. Point was to not put all eggs in your basket and be ready just in case.

Still, both Belmonts and Ridley are using their classic designs. Nothing much, but it shows they're meant to please the old fans of their games, not new ones.
(Though, I guess, reverse of this argument can be made for Daisy)

Using the Classic design has nothing to do with relevancy at all. That's a design choice. You could argue the two Belmonts were not relevant themselves, as they have not appeared in ages. Ridley has been in most Metroid games and is very relevant.

Classic Designs are about what to do after a character is chosen to be playable. That's not what relevancy is, it's about them being currently relevant in their active franchise.

 

[Will]

Saying Spirits is gonna be SSE 2 with how much of a relatively shorter development span the game had is pretty hopeful. I wouldn't call it delusional, but that's really really hopeful. Like, you know that .gif where Bob's reaching for straws? Imagine that but the straws are on the ****ing moon. Similar to Adventure mode or some type of series of predetermined events is probably what's going to happen. I'm personally hoping it's Adventure mode 2.0 with some additions, such as the bosses being the middle, but I'll get into that another day.

 

[Wambo]

I'm just gonna say NEVER think your character is a shoe in. If you do and they end up not being in that can lead to some extremely toxic interactions. Sakurai is clearly listening to the fans though, but I feel like Geno is purely SE's decision. I think he'd have ended up in the game long ago if Sakurai had his way.

Believe me, I know. I lurked on here back when Smash Wii U/3DS both came out and people were sniffing every corner for Mewtwo.

I feel like Geno is the big final reveal here, though. If we're going through the Mii costumes' order of release, he's literally the next/last one.

 

[Enchess]

Tell me about it.

I remember "Wolf's a shoe in for DLC!"

Yeah that didn't end very well did it.

Maybe we should all just assume the remaining newcomers are Mario generic enemies. Then we'll all be pleasantly surprised haha.

But yeah, I tried bracing myself for no Ridley or K Rool. I got lucky with that though. Now I'm bracing myself for no Isaac, Saki, or Mio.

 

[StupendousMike]

There's also still the thing with the mech toy that Sakurai bought, and there are some good arguments out there that suggest it points to Geno.

How? Geno's a marionette puppet, not a robot mech. It's like buying a Megazord to figure out how Pinocchio should move.

 

[UltimateWario]

You know, I think each character having a few lines of text a few pictures at the end of their classic modes like average fighting games would be cute. It would give people clamoring for a Story Mode something to chew on and it would give the game a little character.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Believe me, I know. I lurked on here back when Smash Wii U/3DS both came out and people were sniffing every corner for Mewtwo.

I feel like Geno is the big final reveal here, though. If we're going through the Mii costumes' order of release, he's literally the next/last one.

Mii costumes can be good to look at for popular characters but it isn't the end all be all sort of thing *criesinashley*.