Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Aeronite's Kiseki]

Im curious but why do people want Buzzwole...I feel like hed look really awkward with that quadriped situation (like an odd Centaur (or Motaro from MK)

Why not Pheramosa?

 

[Pakky]

Someone made a Templare for Smash Bros Ultimate Wishes

Spoiler

Here are my picks

Spoiler

Double post... my bad.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

To touch on the “reboot” as if it’s inevitable, or the only way the series can move forward. I don’t really know that I agree with that.

Not only do I think we aren’t getting a new Smash for quite some time after this, mainly because DLC can increase the longevity of it but...well, I don’t know, what is the real appeal to buying a game with half the roster with no changes to gameplay?

I’m not going to play a Smash Bros game that “redefines” the gameplay drastically just to be Smash but like Street Fighter. That alienates the players who have played with GameCube controllers since Melee (a major selling point of Wii U and now Ultimate).

For the people who want characters, they lose out. For players who love the gameplay for what it always has been, they lose out. It’s a lose lose for either side of the fanbase that focuses on characters or competitive play. The only person who wins is Sakurai, and based on how he views the series I don’t even know if he would consider that a win.

A Smash Bros game that introduces far less content than Ultimate, especially in line with a 30-40 character “reboot”, has literally no selling point compared to Ultimate. That doesn’t make any sense.

Yeah, Ultimate is a huge game. There’s a ridiculous amount of content, which leads me to believe that this is meant for the long haul rather than the 4 years between Wii U and Ultimate. If DLC covers Spring Man, Rex & Pyra, and then a few others, there’s even less of a reason to release a brand new one sooner rather than later. Most if not all popular characters are covered, as are up and coming Star characters.

Not to mention, the gameplay has been reasonably refined already. Perfect shield, FS Meter, and all the many other things that have been added seem to imply they’re still trying new things and refining the current gameplay.

I don’t even know if it would be possible with all the licensing, but to me the best solution is to port Ultimate with added content each generation or something.

A flat out reboot removes all selling points to Super Smash Bros and provides next to no incentive for the average consumer to buy it.

 

[Deleted member]

I literally mentionned Incineroar in that post, so the answer is obvious.

IT'S PIKACHU!

GOD DAMMIT!

 

[Deleted member]

Im curious but why do people want Buzzwole...I feel like hed look really awkward with that quadriped situation (like an odd Centaur (or Motaro from MK)

Why not Pheramosa?

Pheromosa isn't a JoJo bug that flexes to show emotion.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Im curious but why do people want Buzzwole...I feel like hed look really awkward with that quadriped situation (like an odd Centaur (or Motaro from MK)

Why not Pheramosa?

Both Ivysaur and Duck Hunt Dog are quadrupeds. And unlike those two, Buzzwole still has two arms on top of that.

Your argument is irrelevant.

 

[BlueMagician]

I tried the new games', but they never felt as good to me....until Gen V. Seriously blew me away. It brought back all the magic I felt in elementary school playing Red. Its my favorite Pokemon gen by a healthy margin. I don't understand the hate I see it get. It has fantastic Pokemon designs, a great map, fun story, and it sucks that it seems doomed to get swept under the rug.

Gen V is in fact one of the most popular generations. However, it should be said that the human characters are probably more popular than the Pokemon and the BW anime was weak, which might have caused TPC to shy away from the Gen after it was over. As for the hate, I think some people just see the large number of Pokemon and instantly assume 'quantity over quality'.

 

[Pyra]

Im curious but why do people want Buzzwole...I feel like hed look really awkward with that quadriped situation (like an odd Centaur (or Motaro from MK)

Why not Pheramosa?

...Because I like Buzzwole more than Pheramosa?

 

[BrytonJ]

So with Rathalos and Dracula all but confirmed that they are bosses in a new single player mode, what other bosses would people like to see included?
Mine are an ultra beast either Buzzwole or Guzzlord
Lord Fredrik
Mama Broodal
And Void Termina

Mechawiggler
Emperor Bulblax
Ghastly King
Dr. Coyle + Hedlok
Bongo Bongo
Golden Diva

I ain't gonna lie a lot of this has more to do with what I've played recently than anything else but there it is

 

[gurtbilbo]

I literally mentionned Incineroar in that post, so the answer is obvious.

My bad dude, missed that one....

 

[Starbound]

Buzzwole is a quadruped?

It's sprite shows it standing up...

 

[MalcolmBelmont]

Double post...

I don't think it's a double post - i just posted both in the same post

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So with Rathalos and Dracula all but confirmed that they are bosses in a new single player mode, what other bosses would people like to see included?
Mine are an ultra beast either Buzzwole or Guzzlord
Lord Fredrik
Mama Broodal
And Void Termina

Majora’s Wrath
Some Mario boss...not sure which right now
Telethia the Endbringer if we get Noctilum as the X stage
Nihilego
If Dante is somehow in, Mundus (DMC1, DmC never happened you hear me)
If Neku is in, the Reaper boss guy at the end of Shiki’s chapter (I forgot his name but he’s the “The pudding of their doom” guy)

 

[Pyra]

Buzzwole is a quadruped?

It's sprite shows it standing up...

Does it have 4 feet?

Even if those feet are Fire Emblem Awkening nubs

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Buzzwole is a quadruped?

It's sprite shows it standing up...

It has four legs, so it's a quadruped.

 

[Diddy Kong]

The thought just occured my mind that I really want to fight Lynells in Smash Ultimate.

 

[Pakky]

I don't think it's a double post - i just posted both in the same post

No, I made a double post, sorry for the confusion.

I meant to respond to you as well.

 

[kylexv]

Can someone link me to the NeoGaf leak? And why are we discussing it? Could it be credible in some form?

 

[AlphaSSB]

The only way I can see Gardevoir and Gothitelle getting in Smash is if Sakurai specifically wanted a Pokemon of each generation in the game.

Gen I: Pikachu, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo
Gen II: Pichu
Gen III: Gardevoir
Gen IV: Lucario
Gen V: Gothitelle
Gen VI: Greninja
Gen VII: I still believe for this to be a toss-up between Decidueye, Lycanroc, and Incineroar.

As neat as it'd be to have a Pokemon from each generation, I highly doubt this would be the case. If we were to get a Gen III Pokemon, it'd likely be Sceptile, since he had a decent following during Smash 4 DLC. Gen V could be Zoroark, since Zoroark was a decently popular Pokemon and the 'Lucario' of Gen V, or Genesect since it also had a movie like Zoroark did.

Even with Gardevoir's popularity, I don't see this one happening. Especially along with a Gothitelle 'Echo' of all things.

 

[Wambo]

I'm betting that Geno will be a standalone reveal. But then again I could be wrong, as the majority of his fans are Smash fans and he might be better suited for another Smash Direct. He does feel like the perfect final reveal.

Another point that people are missing is that, if the new gamemode is actually called spirits/has something to do with spirits, that's another point for Geno's favor. He's basically a puppet with a spirit, and I think he'd be a suiting reveal alongside the Spirits mode.

 

[Diddy Kong]

What significance does this Gothitelle even have? Never heard of it before honestly.

 

[WertQuadNine]

So with Rathalos and Dracula all but confirmed that they are bosses in a new single player mode, what other bosses would people like to see included?
Mine are an ultra beast either Buzzwole or Guzzlord
Lord Fredrik
Mama Broodal
And Void Termina

Sephiroth (if Square plays nice)
Lord Frederick
Andross
Necrozma
Black Knight
Final Boss Ganon from BOTW
Marx, but there are probably better options
The Broodals, specifically the 4 of them as that giant wooden boss
Hades
Mother Brain

 

[Pyra]

What significance does this Gothitelle even have? Never heard of it before honestly.

Nothing besides the fact that it's a Gen 5 pokemon that not a lot of people seem to like.

 

[meowth_thats_wrong]

Birdo could honestly work as a Yoshi echo with Dedede neutral special, with the star retextured as a pink egg.

Suck 'em in and shoot 'em out

Or a reskin of K. Rool's blunderbuss where she shoots an egg before she succs some air.

 

[Enchess]

Gen V is in fact one of the most popular generations. However, it should be said that the human characters are probably more popular than the Pokemon and the BW anime was weak, which might have caused TPC to shy away from the Gen after it was over. As for the hate, I think some people just see the large number of Pokemon and instantly assume 'quantity over quality'.

As a casual Pokemon fan, it might just be the circles I'm in then. I hear a lot of love for XY (my least favorite gen) and tons of trashing BW. Honestly I can't see quantity over quality myself because half of my favorite designs are from Gen V too

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Marx, but there are probably better options

H E A V Y L O B S T E R. Especially since Kumazaki has a strange habit of ignoring him.

 

[Chandeelure]

Any decent leak with Bandana Dee in it?

 

[Starbound]

Can someone link me to the NeoGaf leak? And why are we discussing it? Could it be credible in some form?

See the below post for a great discussion on it.

Sure. I've included the original and the supposed followup in separate text boxes. This will also be somewhat of an analysis of this supposed leak as it's actually kind of interesting.

There are two parts to this "leak," an original and a supposed followup which adds information.

Spoiler: Original

I might delete this post soon since I don't want to cause the source I got this information from any trouble though I can't help it to share this information out of curiosity, even if it won't stay here for too long.

Here is some basic information that I've got:

- The Fire Emblem Series won't receive any newcomers but 2 who are based on existing fighters
- The Legend of Zelda Series won't receive any newcomers
- The Pokemon Series won't receive any newcomers
- Something about an addition to Cloud was mentioned, though I don't know for now if it's gonna be another Final Fantasy character or some other Square Enix character

There are gonna be 12 newcomers in total from which 5 of them are going to be based on other fighters.

For the new ones I only got information on 3 characters who should appear in this title:

- Simon Belmont
- King K. Rool
- Isaac
- X
- X
- X
- X

As for the 5 who are based on other fighters I could also just get the name of 3 of them:

- Chrom based on Roy (appearently with other effects than flames?)
- Soren (I don't know about any changes but he willl be based on Robin)
- Ken ( Based on Ryu with Flame effects)
- X
- X

Some of those will be announced very soon.

Take it or leave it I don't care, I will delete this post soon anyways.

Spoiler: Supposed Follow-Up

Hello again everyone.
I wanted to share the missing information with you all that I got for the game's final characters.

2 out of the 7 newcomers are already confirmed and here are the final ones.

- K Rool (already confirmed)
- Simon Belmont (already confirmed)
- Isaac (is on his way)
- Monster Hunter (is still in development which is the reason why he wasn't confirmed today)
- Terra from the Final Fantasy Series
- Another Bandai Namco character
- Prince Sable from "For the Frog the Bell Tolls"

Coming to the Echo Fighter there are people who didn't understand the system behind my information. The 2 "X" that were left were indeed Dark Samus und Richter. It was the amount of characters I got information on for the time being. And I didn't include characters like Inkling,Ridley and Daisy since they were already officially confirmed at that point. Since people doubted it I only wanted to share information again when some of the characters I called were finally confirmed.
There will be no more "X" this time since I wanted to make sure that everyone is named.

With that said there will indeed be more Echo Fighters than I anticipated before.

- Chrom based on Roy (already confirmed)
- Soren based on Robin (still on his way)
- Dark Samus based on Samus (already confirmed)
- Richter based on Simon (already confirmed)
- Ken based on Ryu (still on his way)
- Shadow the Hedgehog based on Sonic (still on his way)
- Felix based on Isaac(will be revealed together with Isaac like Simon was with Richter)
- Isabelle based on Villager (still on her way)
- Galacta Knight based on Meta Knight (still on his way)

As for the Bandai Namco character, it's the only one left I don't know about. I will update it if I get my hands on that information.
That's it for the main roster. I don't know if there are any plans for DLC but since Super Smash Bros for the Wii U had DLC you can most likely expect it here as well.

This post will be deleted soon as well. And again, take it or leave it.

I'm also quoting @Sykin's post about the threads and accounts for reference.

Lets list some facts:

Spoiler: Facts

• The original "leak" was posted by an account named Whisslbank around early July (July 3rd if I'm correct). It claims the following:
• 7 newcomers, 5 echoes
  • K. Rool
  • Simon
  • Isaac
  • 4 other newcomers
  • Chrom based on Roy, a claim unheard of at the time
  • Soren based on Robin
  • Ken based on Ryu
  • 2 other echoes
  • "Some of those will be revealed soon
• Soon after that, K. Rool, Simon, and Chrom as a Roy echo are revealed. Richter and Dark Samus fit into the two X's within the "leak"
• The account that posted the original does not exist anymore.
• Yesterday, after the Smash Direct, Whisslbank comes back and adds on to their "leak," claiming in addition to their previous leak:
  • Monster Hunter
  • Terra Branford
  • An unknown Bandai Namco Rep
  • Prince Sable
  • More echoes, and confirmation of the above italicized point: "The 2 "X" that were left were indeed Dark Samus and Richter. It was the amount of characters I got information on for the time being."
  • Shadow based on Sonic
  • Galacta Knight based on Meta Knight
  • Felix based on Isaac, to be revealed alongside him
  • Isabelle based on Villiager
  • Soren uses a "modified dagger" instead of the bronze sword
  • No info on DLC
• The second leak is posted by Whisslbank using a different account, as proven by @Sykin.

Lets take this a step further.

Trying to access Whisslbank's original account leads to this message: "The requested user could not be found." Obviously, this means that the account doesn't exist. NeoGAF accounts cannot be deleted by the user, and can only be affected by the moderation team. This means that the moderators of NeoGAF took action against Whisslbank's original account. Compare the error message to that of someone banned, and you get a slightly different message, being "This user's profile is not available." The account still exists, but cannot be seen by regular users, compared to the original account, which doesn't exist at all. Based off of this, we can infer that the moderators of NeoGAF banned Whisslbanks's original account. Now, we need to think of why the moderators deleted Whisslbank's account.

• Did Whisslbank ask the moderators to delete their account, and we're noticing it just now?
• Did the moderators decide to delete the account due to supposed trolling?
• Or did they delete the account because the information Whisslbank "leaked" was actually true?

The first option is possible, but the moderators are known to take a very long time to delete accounts, if they ever actually do it. I'm hard pressed to believe this option. The second option is even harder to believe, as the moderators simply ban users who troll, and only do so for egregious violations, like posting porn. Of course, it's possible that the moderation team doesn't take kindly to supposed leaks, but this would have to be a recent shift in policy as leaks have originated from and been discussed on NeoGAF for years now. That leaves the third option as the strongest in my opinion, as it's not hard to believe that a Nintendo employee caught wind of what Whisslbank said in their first "leak" and took immediate action to shut it down.

From there the next question is: Was Whisslbank guessing with their claims?

The claims that they made weren't exactly difficult. King K. Rool and Simon were the two most popular characters to appear in supposed leaks. Chrom as an echo fighter was popular speculation, but the fact that Whisslbank claimed Chrom would be an echo fighter of Roy instead of the widely speculated Ike stands out more.

Of course, this claim could just be trying to give the "leak" notoriety because it made a couple of odd claims (like Soren being an echo of Robin), or a smart inference that Chrom fights like Lucina, who fights like Marth, and would therefore be an echo of Roy as Marth already has Lucina as an echo fighter (that's a confusing explanation). If so, that's a smart guess. The next step I'd want to take is checking Soren or FE9/FE10's popularity in Japan. If it's sizable enough, then Soren might not be as odd of a claim as we think he is (we got Richter due to his popularity within his series, particularly in Japan).

I think this "leak" is worth watching, and I'm even upping it to a "Leak" of Interest.


This is an odd bookend, but I thought I'd address this as well:

"2 of 7" refers to the 2 out of 7 unique newcomers predicted within the supposed "leak." The leaker themselves said this as well:

3, + the 3 that our "leaker" predicted (K. Rool, Simon, and Chrom as a Roy echo) + the two X's for echoes (supposedly Dark Samus and Richter) = 8
There's the math.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Banjo-Kazooie - Let's be real here. All the people who seriously believes Microsoft will pick a dormant franchise whose last game was a commercial failure over one of their frontrunner franchises like Halo and Minecraft or a recently revived franchise like Killer Instinct are either delusional or lying to themselves.[/spoiler]

I feel like the people who still think relevancy is a powerful driving force behind this iteration of Smash are the delusional ones.

Also, even if Microsoft would pick a Halo or Minecraft character that doesn't mean Sakurai would ask for them. He went to Square Enix asking for Cloud, not for a suggestion.

 

[NextChannelGames]

To touch on the “reboot” as if it’s inevitable, or the only way the series can move forward. I don’t really know that I agree with that.

Not only do I think we aren’t getting a new Smash for quite some time after this, mainly because DLC can increase the longevity of it but...well, I don’t know, what is the real appeal to buying a game with half the roster with no changes to gameplay?

I’m not going to play a Smash Bros game that “redefines” the gameplay drastically just to be Smash but like Street Fighter. That alienates the players who have played with GameCube controllers since Melee (a major selling point of Wii U and now Ultimate).

For the people who want characters, they lose out. For players who love the gameplay for what it always has been, they lose out. It’s a lose lose for either side of the fanbase that focuses on characters or competitive play. The only person who wins is Sakurai, and based on how he views the series I don’t even know if he would consider that a win.

A Smash Bros game that introduces far less content than Ultimate, especially in line with a 30-40 character “reboot”, has literally no selling point compared to Ultimate. That doesn’t make any sense.

Yeah, Ultimate is a huge game. There’s a ridiculous amount of content, which leads me to believe that this is meant for the long haul rather than the 4 years between Wii U and Ultimate. If DLC covers Spring Man, Rex & Pyra, and then a few others, there’s even less of a reason to release a brand new one sooner rather than later. Most if not all popular characters are covered, as are up and coming Star characters.

Not to mention, the gameplay has been reasonably refined already. Perfect shield, FS Meter, and all the many other things that have been added seem to imply they’re still trying new things and refining the current gameplay.

I don’t even know if it would be possible with all the licensing, but to me the best solution is to port Ultimate with added content each generation or something.

A flat out reboot removes all selling points to Super Smash Bros and provides next to no incentive for the average consumer to buy it.

I completely agree.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Any decent leak with Bandana Dee in it?

I can see the future and believe the Dee will be in Ultimate.

Just ask Golden if you don't believe me :V

 

[Deleted member]

Im curious but why do people want Buzzwole...I feel like hed look really awkward with that quadriped situation (like an odd Centaur (or Motaro from MK)

Why not Pheramosa?

I personally don't support either, but I'd prefer Buzzwole because its design doesn't make me want to throw up.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I feel like the people who still think relevancy is a powerful driving force behind this iteration of Smash are the delusional ones.

Also, even if Microsoft would pick a Halo or Minecraft character that doesn't mean Sakurai would ask for them. He went to Square Enix asking for Cloud, not for a suggestion.

True, but the reason Cloud got in Smash was because Square Enix says yes after being asked. How can we be certain that Microsoft will do the same?

Yes, Phil Spencer did that one tweet and he's a highly placed person in the company, but is he the one with the power to do the licensing and stuff?

...

Legitimately asking since I don't know **** about how Microsoft works.

 

[MalcolmBelmont]

See the below post for a great discussion on it.

My issue with this leak is simply - too many third party charcters - while i do expect one more third party charcter i do not think we are going to get 3 more at least in base game

 

[Cutie Gwen]

BOSS IDEAS
Jubileus
Gilgamesh **** you I don't care if he wasn't in 7
Lord Frederick
Monarch Dodora
DJ Octavio
Sectonia
Phantom Ganon
Antasma
Duma
Sigma
Perfect Zygarde
Hades
Bison
Thardus
Xord
Metal Gear REX
Eggman

 

[Diddy Kong]

Any decent leak with Bandana Dee in it?

Yes.

It's called Faith.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

What significance does this Gothitelle even have? Never heard of it before honestly.

I feel like Gothitelle sole purpose would be echoing Gardevoir. Both are pretty similar in form and moves. Kind of an enhanced alt skin for Gardevoir.

I don't see any other reason.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Jubileus

Too insane given her boss fight.

Fortitudo though, because we definitely don't have enough boss fights against that guy, right? :V

 

[Pyra]

So with Rathalos and Dracula all but confirmed that they are bosses in a new single player mode, what other bosses would people like to see included?
Mine are an ultra beast either Buzzwole or Guzzlord
Lord Fredrik
Mama Broodal
And Void Termina

I'll be speaking in terms of who I want to be a boss and who I think they would unlock when you beat them.
Also, when I talk about fighting a normal character as a boss (for instance, Mewtwo or Ganondorf), I imagine them being in a story exclusive stage with some kind of advantage compared to normal "fights" (multiple stocks with a buff or something).

Pokemon:
Gen 7 Rep -> Guzzlord (Gen 7 Pokemon Rep)
100-man Pokemon Trainer Melee (Pokemon Trainer)
Mewtwo in a Cerulean Cave setting (Mewtwo)
Guess you could just kinda fight the other Pokemon as a boss to unlock them as well. (Jigglypuff, Greninja, Lucario, Pichu)
Pokemon doesn't really have a lot to go off of since they fight each other anyway hahaha

Zelda:
Ganondorf -> Beast Ganon (Zelda, Sheik, Ganondorf)
Skull Kid -> Majora (Young Link, Skull Kid)
Helmaroc King (Toon Link)

Mario:
Bowser in his Castle (Bowser, Peach),
Luigi in Bowser's Castle (Luigi, Daisy) (I was remembering how you fought him in Melee adventure mode... That, but with Bowser. Hahahaha)

Mother:
Giygas or Porky.
I don't know enough about Mother 3 to have a boss for that, so Ness and Lucas would just be unlocked at the same time.

Sonic:
Dr. Robotnik (Sonic)
Shadow (Shadow????)

etc.

Maybe I'll make a full list one day haha. It's kind of hard to come up with boss scenarios for some games, like Animal Crossing. And I got kinda lazy, but I think having bosses in the form of huge "final boss" type fights, or just Special boss fights, and also bosses in the form of enhanced normal Smash fights would be cool.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Mother:
Giygas or Porky.
I don't know enough about Mother 3 to have a boss for that, so Ness and Lucas would just be unlocked at the same time.

Just use the Brawl Porky fight for a Mother 3 boss :V