Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

View attachment 156890

Doom guy in Smash would be unexpected and interesting.

DooMguy in smash would be completely out of left field.

All jokes aside, I can think of someone else that would genuinely be even less expected.

Spoiler

http://awesome-games.wikia.com/wiki/Duke_Nukem_3D?file=Duke_Nukem_3D.jpg

I'm aware but like, aren't there better females to want?

She isn't really much of an important character and her staff was literally used more by Fox than her.

It's much like the Bowser Jr. and Magic Paintbrush situation

I agree, at this stage supporting Miyu and Fay as female Star Fox characters would be a better idea, since they didn't need a second appearance to join Star Fox and SF2's return helped sell the SNES Mini.

 

[MalcolmBelmont]

Anyone else think that the Rathalos Model for Smash looks really damn good?

 

[Blargg888]

Does anybody know what stage is in the background of the picture with Dark Samus and Lunala in it?

 

[Will]

Spoiler

Well, RIP anyone who thought Ms. PAC-MAN was gonna be in.

Phantom Ganon makes too much sense in a mode called "Spirits"

Conversely, what if, instead of Petey this time, we get his infamous duo partner, King Boo?

I don't think we should attach ourselves to the Spirits as a gimmick just yet. I mean, the **** does Rathalos have to do with Spirits?

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Miyu or Fara as a Fox echo when? Heck, even an alternate costume would be pretty neat.

I'd also take Katt.

Spoiler

Well, RIP anyone who thought Ms. PAC-MAN was gonna be in.



I don't think we should attach ourselves to the Spirits as a gimmick just yet. I mean, the **** does Rathalos have to do with Spirits?

Oh, I know. I just figured they'd be convenient aesthetics from both series that coincide with the name of the mode. King Boo as a boss would be pretty neat, especially if the level was Luigi's Mansion themed and the maze is you trying to go through the house's many rooms to try and find the exit or something?

That would be really cool.

Any Kirby Boss is pretty much the pinnacle of what the SSE bosses were, at least mechanically, so any of them can work too.

 

[Will]

The original Mushroom Kingdom is back?

Spoiler

hell yeah

 

[BluePikmin11]

You know what is bugging me today in regards to a certain part of speculation.

Speculators thinking that the "new top 3" will make it in as playable.

People are adding Geno, Isaac, and some other characters to put in their top three, believing that now that a new ranking has been born, they will surely be playable.

I dislike this way of thinking because that is definitely not how Sakurai would have planned newcomers for this game in the first place. He just doesn't decide to add K. Rool and Ridley, and form an imaginary top 3 afterwards to decide the next newcomers. Having only this as the main reasoning for popular newcomers to get in creates a false reality that does not actually take pros and cons into account.

Not every popular ballot candidate can make it in as playable. We seen this time and time again with Waluigi (Arguably one of the biggest requests that remained an AT), Krystal, and now Ashley, and the mentality is still present.

I understand that K. Rool and Ridley gives a degree of hope among fans, but this should not be the main way we should view a newcomer's chances at all. It is setting up for disappointment.

 

[Iridium]

Assuming they're gonna pull any Zelda boss at all for Spirits like they did [monster hunter thing guy], I believe it'll be one of these two:

I honestly find the concept of a boss clapping you (Bongo Bongo) to end you really funny, but it is unlikely. Volvagia is more likely (dragons work so well as bosses), although I would cry for reasons hardcore fans would know.

 

[NintendoKnight]

I have come up with an interesting prediction in regards to certain characters. I obviously don't know if this'll happen or not, but I'm going to say my thoughts anyway:

Some of this is based off of information Loz18 gave us, since we know he had prior knowledge that was very accurate. Specifically regarding the "Heroes Vs Villains" claim he made, which has since been refined into a "Rivalry" theme by the K. Rool reveal. That being said, let's get down to it.

First up:

Shadow the Hedgehog (Sonic's Echo Fighter, Rival to Sonic)

Now, I'm a Shadow fan. I like Shadow, and think he's one of the coolest characters in the Sonic series. That being said, I didn't really want him in Smash. (Still kinda don't, but I'd be okay with it if he did). Since the reveal of Chrom and Dark Samus finally informed people that Echoes work differently than initially thought, Shadow seems super easy to implement. Even more than that, his Assist Trophy—despite being present in two games in a row—has mysteriously vanished and replaced by Knuckles. Why would they just remove an Assist Trophy character like that, but also replace them? I know we've lost Assists before (Isaac, Jill, Ray), but they were never replaced. (Though one could argue that Jill from Drill Dozer became the Drill item). This seems like an intentional decision and one that promotes Shadow to the highest represented level.

This next one is crazy:

The Black Knight (Ike's Echo Fighter, Rival to Ike/Fire Emblem Characters)

Yes, I know; it's another FE character. Yes, I know; it's another sword character. But guess what? I don't really care anymore. We just got Chrom, one more won't kill us. Think about it though, the FE series is now 7 characters strong but none of them could be considered "rival" characters. Honestly speaking, almost none of them even have characters you could consider a rival. Marth, Roy, Robin, Lucina, Chrom, Corrin; none of them are rivals to anyone, and none of them have a character that could pose as a strong rival.

But then we have Ike. Ike, unlike the other characters, actually has a strongly established rivalry that lasted not one but two games (which is already more than the Smash FE characters have even had in the FE series, save for Marth). Black Knight could fit the stronger/slower/armored/heavyweight/swordsman archetype that Smash does not have yet. Also, canonically speaking within the lore, Ike and the Black Knight legitimately share the same fighting style, which makes being an Echo not only a good idea, but most likely the optimal idea. Also, the Black Knight was a Mii fighter costume in Sm4sh, so if that boosts his chances...

Gonna go the opposite of most people's expectations with this one:

Akuma (Ryu's Echo Fighter, Rival to Ryu)

As far as I've seen, most people would insert Ken here as the obvious Echo Fighter choice for Ryu. I decided to go with the road less traveled with this Echo Fighter choice. Yes, I know that Ken is very much beloved in the SF series, but I believe that Akuma brings more to the table and is equally loved if not more so. He's visually more distinct than Ken, his presence commands more attention than Ken, and honestly he's more of a rival to Ryu than Ken will ever be. True Rivals > Friendly sparring partners. I'm not saying Ken is a bad Echo choice, in fact he's almost inexcusably one of the better Echo fighter options available. But if Sakurai had to choose between Ken and Akuma, I think he'd go with Akuma. (Also, Raging Demon Final Smash. 'Nuff said.)

And let's finish off our Echo Edgelords with something we can all see coming from a mile away:

Black Shadow (Captain Falcon's Echo Fighter, Rival to Captain Falcon)

Marth, Link, and Mario all had the distinct honor of being the progenitor to two other characters (one of Marth's even has an Echo of their own, now), so it's Captain Falcon's turn to receive that honor. Honestly, this accomplishes several tasks: More F-Zero characters, check. Another villain character, check. People actually want Black Shadow, check. Rivalry theme criteria, check. Honestly, there's no reason not to have Black Shadow appear as Falcon's Echo. He could have stat differences, or he could be exactly the same as Falcon. Either way, it wouldn't matter to most of us. He would be a meaningful addition to the roster, one people would actually be happy with.

Now, to start off my non-Echo/non-edgelord characters:

Geno ( Third-Party Mario Series)

Now, this is a personal want of mine. However, I also know that this is a personal want for Sakurai as well. As far as we've been told, Sakurai has had 3 characters that he's wanted to implement as playable characters for a number of years now: Takamaru, Simon Belmont, and Geno. Takamaru, due to not having enough western popularity (despite coming to the west, the Wii U did so poorly that I still doubt people would recognize him) couldn't make it past Assist Trophy status. He did get a Mii costume though. Simon Belmont, however, was recently revealed as the next third party character with an exceptional amount of love being poured into his series, even to the point of giving him a massive music track list and an immediate Echo Fighter in Richter. Skipping far beyond Assist Trophy status, Simon pretty much cleared the way for Geno to be added to the roster.

Geno has been wanted by Sakurai, and many fans, since Brawl. Implemented as a Mii Fighter costume in Sm4sh's DLC when Cloud was added, Geno has a shining opportunity to follow in the footsteps of both K. Rool and the Inklings and get promoted from Mii costume to fully-realized playable character. He's niche and though he's very beloved, he isn't relevant, but neither was K. Rool and he made it anyway. In Ultimate, relevance doesn't matter. It seems a character's star power actually means something again. To top it all off, he'd bring the Mario series to a dominating 9 characters (this is counting Pokemon Trainer as a single character). Hilariously, everything that needed to happen for Geno to appear has happened: Cloud bridged the gap to Square-Enix, Simon joined as one of Sakurai's personal wants for the game, and K. Room destroyed the relevance argument. This is Geno's best chance.

And to end off my predictions:

Monster Hunter (Third-Party Monster Hunter Series)

We all saw the Monster Hunter stage with the Rathalos Boss, and the Rathalos also doubling as an Assist Trophy. I know the the major focus of the MH series is of course, the monsters. However, it also boasts a strong focus on making your character powerful enough to crush said monsters. It's not like Pokemon or Yo-kai Watch where the monsters are almost exclusively the focus. The hunter's themselves share half of the focus, hence their half of the game's name: Monster Hunter. That being said, Capcom acknowledged the Hunter in Marvel Vs. Capcom: Infinite as a DLC character, and the Rathalos Armor set was included in Sm4sh as a Mii Fighter Costume, not to mention all the Nintendo/Monster Hunter crossover content these last few years. I legitimately believe this is evidence enough for the Monster Hunter to appear as a playable character.

And those are my predictions. These aren't just my wants, these are what I feel will actually happen in Ultimate, because this game destroys a ton of previously-thought precedents. If this is the game to outdo them all, then let's blaze forward at Mach 20.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Spoiler

Well, RIP anyone who thought Ms. PAC-MAN was gonna be in.



I don't think we should attach ourselves to the Spirits as a gimmick just yet. I mean, the **** does Rathalos have to do with Spirits?

She is acknowledged, at least. Her best chance is for folks to support her as a potential Echo in the future.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I took some time to update the Smash Ultimate roster, with fighters being sorted by series, followed by number. Mii Fighters come last, due to their customization features.

Echo Fighters Split

Echo Fighters Merged

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I still think Dixie shouldn't be an echo fighter. I don't think giving her a ponytail recovery is enough to represent her properly. I still believe several of her moves should be her swing her ponytail, and that she should grab people with her ponytail. Sakurai has done such a great job at representing these characters, he clearly understands the history of all of these characters, and for him to include a version of Dixie that doesn't attack with her hair just doesn't seem like something he would do.

Edit: I intended to post this in the Dixie thread, but somehow I managed to post it hear instead, oops.

 

[Will]

I honestly find the concept of a boss clapping you (Bongo Bongo) to end you really funny, but it is unlikely. Volvagia is more likely (dragons work so well as bosses), although I would cry for reasons hardcore fans would know.

I think differently.
Phantom Ganon was important for two Links and is a pretty big (mini)boss recognized in the Zelda community. Stone Talus is probably the most spammed overworld boss in Breath of the Wild and since he's made of stone with the obvious weak spot (like the Bulborb or similar rock enemy from Kid Icarus) its pretty easy to make him a gimmicky boss.

 

[ChocolatGelgato]

im a bit late on the topic but i think the focus on the crowd pleasers is on the catagory that i'm gonna refer to as the brawl old guard. IE, the characters who had huge long lasting popularity since before brawl came out. I think this element is why K Rool made it in, I think Sakurai wants to avoid "fad" requests in case people swiftly get bored of them (RIP Shovel Knight) but I think when he sees people haven't stopped thinking about K rool, Simon and Ridley long after the brawl days he gets the picture that these characters won't be quickly thrown aside by their fans and their appeal is not fleeting.

That being said, my memory is hazy on who is left of that era, I swear Skull Kid was at his peak then, which is a huge boon for him imo, Geno is pretty obvious and imo his chances have shot up from hopeful to possibly a reality, ditto for issac. I can't really remember many others? Megaman and Little Mac were also huge but they were dealt with in smash 4. Krystal and Ashley were big but are assists confirmed. As such, I think the only remaining crowd pleasers I'd consider possible are Skull Kid, Geno, Issac and maybe bandana waddle dee, even if he's newer. Aside from that I don't expect any other big request characters in (echoes notwithstanding).

 

[MalcolmBelmont]

Do you think we could potentially see Metal Gear as a Boss in Adventure Mode?

 

[Shroob]

I still think Dixie shouldn't be an echo fighter. I don't think giving her a ponytail recovery is enough to represent her properly. I still believe several of her moves should be her swing her ponytail, and that she should grab people with her ponytail. Sakurai has done such a great job at representing these characters, he clearly understands the history of all of these characters, and for him to include a version of Dixie that doesn't attack with her hair just doesn't seem like something he would do.

Dark Samus shouldn't really be a 1:1 clone of Samus moveset-wise, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuut

 

[Deleted member]

Do you think we could potentially see Metal Gear as a Boss in Adventure Mode?

We already have a Metal Gear boss though.

 

[Enderwoman]

I still think Dixie shouldn't be an echo fighter. I don't think giving her a ponytail recovery is enough to represent her properly. I still believe several of her moves should be her swing her ponytail, and that she should grab people with her ponytail. Sakurai has done such a great job at representing these characters, he clearly understands the history of all of these characters, and for him to include a version of Dixie that doesn't attack with her hair just doesn't seem like something he would do.

dixie could still have DK's cargo throw with her hair which is about the extent that she uses her hair in the games anyway

 

[Will]

I still think Dixie shouldn't be an echo fighter. I don't think giving her a ponytail recovery is enough to represent her properly. I still believe several of her moves should be her swing her ponytail, and that she should grab people with her ponytail. Sakurai has done such a great job at representing these characters, he clearly understands the history of all of these characters, and for him to include a version of Dixie that doesn't attack with her hair just doesn't seem like something he would do.

Edit: I intended to post this in the Dixie thread, but somehow I managed to post it hear instead, oops.

That's your opinion, but unfortunately if Dark Samus wasn't spared, neither will Dixie.

 

[Iridium]

I think differently.
Phantom Ganon was important for two Links and is a pretty big (mini)boss recognized in the Zelda community. Stone Talus is probably the most spammed overworld boss in Breath of the Wild and since he's made of stone with the obvious weak spot (like the Bulborb or similar rock enemy from Kid Icarus) its pretty easy to make him a gimmicky boss.

Oh, well, I wasn't really looking at popularity. I wasn't really being too serious with my suggestions. One I just thought of however is Demise, perhaps for some Skyward Sword representation.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Do you think we could potentially see Metal Gear as a Boss in Adventure Mode?

which Metal Gear?

REX would be fun if it was invulnerable except the radar dish. Once you destroyed the radar, the cockpit would open up with Liquid Snake piloting the meatal gear, creating a new weak spot for the boss.

RAY would be awesome with the giant mouth laser and high mobility. If would be perfect if Rules of Nature played while fighting it.

GEKKOS would be cool, but I feel they fit better as enemies in a smash run type mode rather than a boss.

Sahelanthropus would probably be too big

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Dark Samus shouldn't really be a 1:1 clone of Samus moveset-wise, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuut

I would say Dark Samus is represented properly. Her main thing is her phazon attacks, and those are represented in her moveset.

That's your opinion

Oh, good to know. I thought I was stating a fact, thanks for letting me know :v

 

[MasterOfKnees]

You know what is bugging me today in regards to a certain part of speculation.

Speculators thinking that the "new top 3" will make it in as playable.

People are adding Geno, Isaac, and some other characters to put in their top three, believing that now that a new ranking has been born, they will surely be playable.

I dislike this way of thinking because that is definitely not how Sakurai would have planned newcomers for this game in the first place. He just doesn't decide to add K. Rool and Ridley, and form an imaginary top 3 afterwards to decide the next newcomers. Having only this as the main reasoning for popular newcomers to get in creates a false reality that does not actually take pros and cons into account.

Not every popular ballot candidate can make it in as playable. We seen this time and time again with Waluigi (Arguably one of the biggest requests that remained an AT), Krystal, and now Ashley, and the mentality is still present.

I understand that K. Rool and Ridley gives a degree of hope among fans, but this should not be the main way we should view a newcomer's chances at all. It is setting up for disappointment.

I dislike the idea of making up a new top 3/4 from a community standpoint in general, why does something like that so desperately need to exist? The characters who were previously part of that were so because everyone unanimously agreed that they were much more popular than the rest and had been for years, and it's not that they were elected into the cool kids' club either, these top 3/big 4 things only even became a thing because those characters' popularity stood out so much. It happened organically, and now it's just being forced.

 

[MalcolmBelmont]

which Metal Gear?

REX would be fun if it was invulnerable except the radar dish. Once you destroyed the radar, the cockpit would open up with Liquid Snake piloting the meatal gear, creating a new weak spot for the boss.

RAY would be awesome with the giant mouth laser and high mobility. If would be perfect if Rules of Nature played while fighting it.

GEKKOS would be cool, but I feel they fit better as enemies in a smash run type mode rather than a boss.

Sahelanthropus would probably be too big

It has to be REX since it's Shadow Moses Island

 

[Shroob]

I would say Dark Samus is represented properly. Her main thing is her phazon attacks, and those are represented in her moveset.

Oh, good to know. I thought I was stating a fact, thanks for letting me know :v

But compare it to all the crazy **** she did in Smash4 as an assist trophy. No, she's really not portrayed to the best of her ability.

 

[Opossum]

The Black Knight (Ike's Echo Fighter, Rival to Ike/Fire Emblem Characters)

Yes, I know; it's another FE character. Yes, I know; it's another sword character. But guess what? I don't really care anymore. We just got Chrom, one more won't kill us. Think about it though, the FE series is now 7 characters strong but none of them could be considered "rival" characters. Honestly speaking, almost none of them even have characters you could consider a rival. Marth, Roy, Robin, Lucina, Chrom, Corrin; none of them are rivals to anyone, and none of them have a character that could pose as a strong rival.

But then we have Ike. Ike, unlike the other characters, actually has a strongly established rivalry that lasted not one but two games (which is already more than the Smash FE characters have even had in the FE series, save for Marth). Black Knight could fit the stronger/slower/armored/heavyweight/swordsman archetype that Smash does not have yet. Also, canonically speaking within the lore, Ike and the Black Knight legitimately share the same fighting style, which makes being an Echo not only a good idea, but most likely the optimal idea. Also, the Black Knight was a Mii fighter costume in Sm4sh, so if that boosts his chances...

Just saying, Marth definitely has a "rival." He has an amicable rivalry with Hardin in Shadow Dragon, based on mutual respect. They're shown throughout the game's dialogue and lore to be, essentially, equal but opposite. Both are noble, courageous military leaders, but while Marth is more classically trained in combat, Hardin uses guerrilla tactics. Both were considered to lead the League until Hardin ceded the reigns to Marth, recognizing his talents.

And then in the sequel poor Hardin gets corrupted and wages war against the entire continent, as one does when cursed by a medieval Palpatine. Hardin's a great character though. If a "villain" (used loosely since he wasn't really in control) from Fire Emblem ever got in, I'd love it to be him.

 

[MalcolmBelmont]

You know what would be an awesome boss in Adventure Mode - Metal Overlord

 

[Shroob]

I dislike the idea of making up a new top 3/4 from a community standpoint in general, why does something like that so desperately need to exist? The characters who were previously part of that were so because everyone unanimously agreed that they were much more popular than the rest and had been for years, and it's not that they were elected into the cool kids' club either, these top 3/big 4 things only even became a thing because those characters' popularity stood out so much. It happened organically, and now it's just being forced.

Pretty much this.

The only characters of the 'old guard' really left are Geno, and to a lesser extent Isaac.

I think right now, this is the prime time to be a Geno fan and hope to the future.

 

[Will]

I would say Dark Samus is represented properly. Her main thing is her phazon attacks, and those are represented in her moveset.

Oh, good to know. I thought I was stating a fact, thanks for letting me know :v

>Dark Samus gets moves that she doesnt even have
>Is way less "represented" than as an Assist
"represented well"
>The same thing happens to Dixie but she gets a helicopter recovery from DK and a bubblegum gun
"not represented well"

No offense but that makes zero sense.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

I just don't see why Sakurai wouldn't announce Monster Hunter as a character right then and there if that series were to actually recieve a playable rep.

The "stage" itself is expansive, but rather simplistic in that it has no platforms, pits, or objects placed anywhere; it's an empty expanse just big enough to allow you to avoid the boss' attacks, but so linear and small enough to where it can house Rathalos and your character within it at a reasonable distance.

It's EXACTLY like the boss fights stages in Brawl, and that's just a fact that simply can't be denied. Bosses and Stage Hazards don't show up on Omega Modes either, last I checked, so it can't be simply chalked up to that.

The fact that it also showed up in the Assist Trophy section yet was given a big reveal as a boss, with a short, in-game cinematic/cutscene to boot, leads me to believe that, in some form, bosses have to be part of this new mode

Anyways, back to the main point, a generic player avatar with no given name to even refer to them as in a series where the Monsters are the most recognisable aspect of it just doesn't scream "We have a playable rep!" to me. The special treatment of having a boss that can be summoned in casual fights too seems to me like Sakurai's way of making up for them not having a playable character, yet giving the series the representation and reputation it deserves, as WE become the Monster Hunters upon fighting it.

I dunno, that's just me.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

It has to be REX since it's Shadow Moses Island

True, but REX, RAY, and GEKKOS did show in Shadow Moses in Brawl. and RAY showed up on Shadow Moses in MGS4.

Still I think that REX is the most obvious choice and the most iconic. I just hope if its a boss Liquid is piloting it, I want to hear his snide British voice over the intercom as he tries to crush you with a giant mech.

 

[Will]

I just don't see why Sakurai wouldn't announce Monster Hunter as a character right then and there if that series were to actually recieve a playable rep.

The "stage" itself is expansive, but rather simplistic in that it has no platforms, pits, or objects placed anywhere; it's an empty expanse just big enough to allow you to avoid the boss' attacks, but so linear and small enough to where it can house Rathalos and your character within it at a reasonable distance.

It's EXACTLY like the boss fights stages in Brawl, and that's jist a fact that simply can't be denied. Bosses and Stage Hazards don't show up on Omega Modes either, last I checked, so it can't be simply chalked up to that.

The fact is also showed up in the Assist Trophy section yet was given a big reveal as a boss, with a short cinematic to boot, leadsme to believe that, in some form, bosses have to be part of this new mode

Anyways, back to the main point, a generic player avatar with no given name to even refer to them as in a series where the Monsters are the kost recognisable aspect of it just doesn't scream "We have a playable rep!" to me. The special treatment of having a boss that can be summoned in casual fights too seems to me like Sakurai's way of making up for them not having a playable character, yet giving the series the representation and reputation it deserves, as WE become the Monster Hunters upon fighting it.

I dunno, that's just me.

Newcomers get a shiny CG trailer, echoes don't. Unless it was an Echo, nothing would've been shown probably. I wonder what company does those trailers anyway, unless Nintendo makes them themselves.

 

[Iridium]

So, I wonder if we will to do Final Smashes on Assist Trophies. By that, I mean that if I were to use Simon's Grand Cross on Waluigi for example, would he be involved in the cutscene? I want to see that happen.

 

[vaanrose]

Newcomers get a shiny CG trailer, echoes don't. Unless it was an Echo, nothing would've been shown probably. I wonder what company does those trailers anyway, unless Nintendo makes them themselves.

Digital Frontier. The Japanese Digital Frontier, not the US Digital Frontier. The ones that made the CG Resident Evil and Tekken movies.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Pretty much this.

The only characters of the 'old guard' really left are Geno, and to a lesser extent Isaac.

I think right now, this is the prime time to be a Geno fan and hope to the future.

To be honest, even now I’m not counting too much on Geno or even Isaac in spite of the ballot. Didn’t Nintendo have to go through a lot of negotiations to get Square Enix’s permission for Geno in Superstar Saga? And he hasn’t appeared in another M&L RPG since, or any other game iirc, not counting the obvious 4 Mii costume. Cloud may not be enough, heck, SE would probably grant Sakurai permission for characters from their other IPs before geno. That’s just me tho

As for Isaac...Dark Dawn was a disappointment sales wise, ended on a cliffhanger, killed off a veteran NPC who won’t be named because spoilers, and iirc some of the devs left Camelot? It’s not looking good for him and I doubt the ballot was enough...GS was never a big time franchise anyway...not like Metroid, Pokémon or DK...

(I’m sorry, I’m just feeling depressed over other reasons and it’s carrying over to here hence why I’m pessimistic and incoherent all of a sudden. I just...need time alone...)

 

[Pizzanigs]

"This character can't be an echo because he/she fights nothing like that character!" is such a silly argument at this point. So many people tried to say that about Dark Samus

 

[Roberk]

Skull Kid? I'm down. Iconic Zelda character who's probably more recognizable to the average Joe at this point than friggin' GANONDORF.

Incineroar? Meh, not a big modern PokeMon guy (it really panders to the yungins these days), but hey, more characters!

I still think Geno is in. Ridley and K.Rool seemed to be high-level secret projects at Nintendo, and even if they leaked, it didn't matter since everyone was already including them in every fake leak out there. Geno is just about the only one left who falls under this category.

All three of them make perfect sense, too. No new stages need to be made for them, either. Skull Kid fits right in on Great Bay, Incineroar has several modern PokeMon stages, and Geno can literally plop right into a Mario stage.

Look I like Skull Kid but he’s not more recognizable than Ganondorf.

1. Ganondorf has been in Smash since Melee.
2. Ganondorf is a recurring villain in some of the most iconic Zelda games like OoT, Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, etc. Skull Kid is only significant in MM, which for a long time was the black sheep of the franchise.

You can make the argument that Skull Kid is more significant/recognizable than Sheik maybe, but definitely not more iconic than Ganondorf.

 

[Deleted member]

Regarding the popular characters only thing, I think Swamp Sensei put it best...
The problem is that it doesn't leave enough room for newer characters. I like that Sm4sh had a mix of both, even if it wasn't exactly what everyone wanted it still felt like a nice balance of both old and new characters.
I have no issues with any of the newcomers that were announced so far, but it's pretty obvious that besides the Inklings, newer characters are getting the short end of the stick.

It's treason then...

Hey, Prequel memes are my shtick.
Donut steal.

Yeah, but which ones are as popular like Mewtwo or Lucario?

I don't know, go look at official Pokemon polls.
Besides, I doubt popularity was the reason they were included anyway.

Some ******* leaked a DM that Loz18 sent him

https://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/427289323

Skull Kid: That means I'm losing my bet with Cosmic so I hope it doesn't happen. I don't want a Zelda newcomer anyway.
Incineroar: Not Decidueye so it's a bit disappointing, but at least it's not Lycanroc (or Mimikyu, but I'm not really worried about THAT anymore )
No Isabelle: THANK YOU.

Meh, not a big modern PokeMon guy (it really panders to the yungins these days)

This is a lie. I don't think I've ever read a post that made me this angry.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

>Dark Samus gets moves that she doesnt even have
>Is way less "represented" than as an Assist
"represented well"
>The same thing happens to Dixie but she gets a helicopter recovery from DK and a bubblegum gun
"not represented well"

No offense but that makes zero sense.

When someones main method of attacking isn't utilized in their movest then I find it to be a poor representation.

"This character can't be an echo because he/she fights nothing like that character!" is such a silly argument at this point. So many people tried to say that about Dark Samus

Ok, then I think Bandana Dee will get in as an echo fighter of Wario. Sure their nothing alike, but that's a silly argument right?

I also never said Dixie CAN'T be an echo :v

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

"This character can't be an echo because he/she fights nothing like that character!" is such a silly argument at this point. So many people tried to say that about Dark Samus

She can get Luigified later anyway, so it's a moot point.

DK's about to get the Bannana Slamma

Reminds me of this: