Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Fenriraga]

Something to consider regarding relevancy though:

Could K. Rool's nostalgia factor sell more DK games? Probably.

Could Simon or Richter do the same for Castlevania? Yeah, I think so.

What does Geno sell more of? Super Mario RPG... 2......?

Mario RPG games. The M&L series, Paper Mario, etc. You know, the games that took near direct inspiration from it?

Also advertisement for Square's old RPGs, which have been re released on multiple platforms. "Hey, like this cool character from one of our MANY acclaimed RPGs? Maybe you'll like Chrono Trigger, now available on Steam!" Or something silly like that.

Either way, advertising is absolutely not a primary concern here. Obviously any character from any series making it into Smash is going to boost sales.

 

[SquashiniKun]

I have a theory that there will be 9 more new stages, here's what i think some of them will be.

Gangplank Galleon (Donkey Kong Country)
A Xenoblade X Stage
A Gen 7 Pokemon Stage
A Stage From A Modern IP
A Stage From A Retro IP
Park Avenue (Sonic Forces)
A Stage for R.O.B.

 

[AzureFlame4]

Honestly I'm expecting Incineroar, Isabelle, Shadow and Skull Kid to finish out the cast. With maybe Geno being the big wtf reveal as the very last one. Chrom and Dark Samus becoming echoes the way they did really makes me look at the missing assist trophies and mii costume characters. Plus Richter makes Shadow inevitable imo.

 

[Akiak]

This is hype

BTW someone might have mentioned this already but notice how the first direct ended with Ridley and this one with K Rool...

I'm guessing we're gonna get another direct before release which ends with Geno. I'm calling it

Other than that... Isabelle would be cool ESPECIALLY if she comes with a bunch of other AC animals as alts. Like Tom Nook etc. Would be sick

Fingers crossed for Dee and Shadow

 

[Smearglangelo]

Majora's Wrath, anyone?

I find it funny that TheLastJinjo and 92MilesPrower just had the same conversation that me and Mc.Rad had a couple of pages ago.

 

[Deleted member]

So is it safe to assume we can bury the whole "Relevancy" argument for the most part now?

Because Simon/Richter and K. Rool absolutely don't fall under that. Neither does Ridley, to a lesser extent.

This roster seems almost ENTIRELY ballot based. I'm sure not every character will be, but dang, I am SO confident in Geno right now...

So far, aside from Richter, it's been 100% ballot aligned. Echoes and everything. Also, several ATs addressed popular picks, like Waluigi, Lyn, Bomberman, and Shovel Knight. Shadow also seems to be pretty much a given at this point too, and he was very popular in the polls too.

 

[Deleted member]

And like @ToasterBrains, I become an accidental prophet for a day...

It's actually a slightly more accurate variation of what he should have said, it seems.
Original English Translation - Richter: Die, monster! You don't belong in this world!
Original Japanese (Translated) - Richter: Begone! This world is not yours to live in!

He says "Begone! You don't belong in this world!"

It sort of reminds me of the Woolseyisms from Final Fantasy IV and VI, and how they still get in the games to this day (where sensible).

"You spoony bard!"

It's kind of like how in Ryu's trailer, he says the properly translated version of his victory quote from SF2: "You must defeat my Shoryuken to stand a chance."

 

[alguidrag]

Anyway my pics for newcomers and echos
Newcomers
Isaac (for the love of almight Kirby Sakurai!!!! PLEASE)
Skull Kid
another region pokemon trainer
Tiz(very unlikely since its seems that the bravely series didn't do well enough but i would love him)
Ephraim/Wadlee dee(Because I need a lance user)
Noctis

echos
Felix(Isaac)
Shadow(Sonic)
Morph Knight(Meta Knight)
Ninten(Ness)
Viridi(Palutena)
Noctis(Cloud echo maybe? Nah...)

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Echoes-
Shadow (Sonic echo - Mewtwo UpB)
Ken (Ryu echo)
Dixie Kong (Diddy echo - DK UpB)
Metal Mario (Doc Echo)

Metal Mario would not work at all, especially considering that the Metal Box makes fighters 4.5x heavier than normal, AND subtracts 30 base knockback units from any attack (excluding the attacks that can bypass the Metal Box's weight and knockback resistance bonuses) that the fighter takes.

Also, what's the character count at now?

Something to consider, but I think the that the Smashout mode has to work in multiples of 4 in order for all players to be able to play every round. So the final character count might be either 76 or 80, including echoes. What are we at now? Is it 71?

With 5 characters being revealed today, the roster count is now up to 73.

 

[Will]

Honestly I'm expecting Incineroar, Isabelle, Shadow and Skull Kid to finish out the cast. With maybe Geno being the big wtf reveal as the very last one. Chrom and Dark Samus becoming echoes the way they did really makes me look at the missing assist trophies and mii costume characters. Plus Richter makes Shadow inevitable imo.

I think differently. I think Chrom makes Shadow more possible, because hopefully he won't have two spin dashes.

 

[MysticKnives]

Why is Lucina so thirsty for the one guy who kicked her and her dad's *** without even trying?

She’s had a deep fondness for the Falcon ever since the fight. SHes tried to hide it by fighting him again and again but I always end with her taking an L. That’s around the time she discovered Ganondorf goes to the Church of Falcon

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Man Richter, Shadow, AND Skull Kid

Dream come true. Just needs Syrup.

 

[Untouch]

Alucard looks like he has enough that he could be his own character honestly.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

What do you think was more disrespect in a trailer?

Ridley ****ing murdering two icons VS Cloud beating the **** out of Ike for copying his Omnislash

Ridley killing Mario and Luigi having his soul taken out of his body

Yep. Seven Fire Emblem characters. That's equal to Pokemon. Greater than The Legend of Zelda. Still greater than Donkey Kong and Metroid despite their new characters. Greater than Kirby and Star Fox combined. Only one character away from being equal to Super Mario.

I don't want to be that guy, and I don't want to **** all over Chrom's inclusion (I never really minded him getting him in), but...

Fire Emblem now officially has more Smash fighters than the Legend of Zelda

And if you’re one of the few people in this Smash world who counts echoes as their original (so = on the same slot), the Fire Emblem cast goes from Chromultcorrin: to ultcorrin:

I kind of want to see Viridi become playable just so I can see her fight Chrom, for reasons we all know.

I just want Viridi in general

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I feel that even though Dark Samus got the playable treatment, Ashley's fate as a returning Assist Trophy could mean that Skull Kid and Isabelle may still be stuck with the Assist Trophy role as well. And to be honest, I actually want Isabelle to remain an Assist Trophy. As for Skull Kid, I'm mostly indifferent about him, but the one who wore Majora's Mask only appeared in a single mainstream game (and considering what happened to Midna and Ghirahim, it's not exactly a good sign).

Yeah, that seems fair. Just because Nintendo pushes Ashley and Isabelle very hard doesn't necessarily mean Sakurai has to as well. In the end, it's up to him to determine if they have enough fan support over time to justify them making it in over other potential newcomer choices.

 

[Iridium]

I have no idea what a "squad strike" is but if its like the whole, "stock battle but every stock is a seperate character" thing then this:

for 3v3s if its a themed thing
cause mains
for a 5v5 the theme being "Glorious Veterans"
cause mains

https://www.smashbros.com/en_US/howtoplay/mode.html

You can check it here, but it is more of a 1-on-1 type of mode, like a crew battle perhaps. I doubt this will be used extensively compared to traditional crew battles for a while, though.

 

[BluePikmin11]

It is going to take a day for me to grasp all of the new information.

I plan to make a post in my roster analysis thread on what this could mean for Smash speculation going forward.

There is a lot of new things in my mind that is worth talking about speculation-wise.

It will come soon.

 

[Zinith]

Alucard looks like he has enough that he could be his own character honestly.

Which is why Richter threw me for a loop. It seemed like Alucard was a better bet than him

 

[Akiak]

V unfortunate for Ashley btw (and Waluigi)

Next time I guess

 

[Smearglangelo]

Even if Metal Mario can't be playable, he should still appear as some sort of sub-boss like in 64 and Melee. Since this is the "Ultimate" version of Smash Brothers I hope the Smash Team brings him back in classic mode as a reference to the original Smash Brothers.

 

[Will]

Honestly I just want Hayabusa now to complete the NES trilogy. Well, I guess it isn't actually a trilogy if it's just Simon ATM.

Simon/Hayabusa/??? is the endgame I want though

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Yeah, that seems fair. Just because Nintendo pushes Ashley and Isabelle very hard doesn't necessarily mean Sakurai has to as well. In the end, it's up to him to determine if they have enough fan support over time to justify them making it in over other potential newcomer choices.

I guess the main thing that favored Dark Samus was the fact that it shares the same body frame as Samus.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Akuma's busy chillin' in Tekken with Geese and Negan.

You forgot Noctis.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Dark Samus is so cool and I'm glad Awakening fans have all of their heroes (Chrom, Robin, and Corrin).

I really hope to see Ninten echo Ness so that we can get the full Mother trilogy in playable form. Also looking forward to the possibility of Dixie Kong, Shadow, Ms. Pac-Man, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Hilda and Impa.

 

[SvartWolf]

At this point, I'm predicting just five more characters. Two echoes and three unique newcomers.

Isabelle
Incineroar
Skull Kid
Dixie Kong (Diddy echo with DK's Spinning Kong)
Shadow (Sonic echo with Mewtwo's Teleport)

seems solid, although i woudln't discount impa as an echo...

Richter didn't have his own support thread, it was assumed that he's be an Alt of Simon if he even got in at all.

i don't want to brag but like... a thousand pages ago I toyed with teh idea of Richter as a speedier Simon belmont clone as a way to have all the belmonts in teh game (Cristopher and trevor for simon alts, Juste, julius and leon for ritcher alts) but yeah.. it was before we knew about echoes amd i honestly made the post half jokingly (considering i was putting tons of castlevania stuff there for the giggles)

I have a theory that there will be 9 more new stages, here's what i think some of them will be.

Gangplank Galleon (Donkey Kong Country)
A Xenoblade X Stage
A Gen 7 Pokemon Stage
A Stage From A Modern IP
A Stage From A Retro IP
Park Avenue (Sonic Forces)
A Stage for R.O.B.

I fear we may not get new stages.... believe me i want more of them, specially after donkey knog being shafted with 2 stages, a new dkc stage would been rad, and a minecraft stage, but the smash site already have shown 103 stages exactly.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

More characters down, many more still kicking

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

I just wanna give a shoutout to Richter Belmont for singlehandedly killing and burying every single fake 'leak' up to this point. No survivors. Brutal.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I guess the main thing that favored Dark Samus was the fact that it shares the same body frame as Samus.

That's pretty much the only thing in question when it comes to cloning.

 

[meowth_thats_wrong]

Because there are plenty of other choices for distinct characters, and the roster slots for unique characters, this time ARE very limited given the tight dev time. All in all, it makes more sense for Sakurai to go for a ballot pick and please a larger number of people, than take a risk with a new Pokemon just for the sake of tradition.

Not saying it can't happen. But I don't think a new Pokemon is necessarily a given fact, considering how many Pokemon already make up the roster. They're lower priority than any top 20 ballot character imo.

Tbh, I never paid much attention to the story in SF. So that's fair I suppose. I still think Ken is a better pick/more likely choice than Akuma though.

Just.... saiyan.

You're underestimating the popularity of Pokemon's current generations. These games have sold tens of millions of units on the 3DS. Characters getting this much exposure are bound to be more popular in real life than most of the ballot picks not named Ridley and K. Rool. Who's more popular among the general public, Geno, Isaac, or [insert Gen 7 Pokemon]? Most likely the Pokemon. Regardless of their ballot popularity, Ridley and K. Rool were special because they were connected to established, recognizable series, and could be easily sold to the general public as "the villains of the Metriod/DK franchise." Any other ballot pick from a dead series, like Golden Sun and Super Mario RPG, is a gamble in comparison, because people are much less familiar with these games, and, by proxy, their characters.

 

[Murlough]

https://www.smashbros.com/en_US/howtoplay/mode.html

You can check it here, but it is more of a 1-on-1 type of mode, like a crew battle perhaps. I doubt this will be used extensively compared to traditional crew battles for a while, though.

Holy ****, they did so much O.O

Training mode actually isn't complete *** now!

Then yeah my squad post stands. I'm totally cool with it too. I love crew battles and this gives me an excuse to tell my Ryu main freind to learn another character....

Classic mode needed to come back and bless Sakurai it did.

So, neat. Today was pretty good Smash wise. I'll never understand Ashley not being in though....like Mimikyu I can justify but she makes no sense at all to me. Whatever, I guess.

EDIT: also tournament mode. I missed that....even though its basically useless for me since lvl 9s just aren't fun to play against.

 

[Deleted member]

You forgot Noctis.

And Tekken 7 forgot Snoop Dogg.

I just wanna give a shoutout to Richter Belmont for singlehandedly killing and burying every single fake 'leak' up to this point. No survivors. Brutal.

He truly is our hero.

 

[meowth_thats_wrong]

I just wanna give a shoutout to Richter Belmont for singlehandedly killing and burying every single fake 'leak' up to this point. No survivors. Brutal.

Fake leak: "h-"
Richter: "Be gone! You don't belong in this world, monster!"

 

[Zinith]

Actually, I think Kamek is likely (if Sakurai cares about my boi that is). K. Rool's trailer isn't called "Villains" or "Main Antagonists." It's called "RIVALS." That describes the Magikoopa to a T in the Yoshi games even if he's not the main bad guy...

 

[ned_ballad]

I wonder if Bandana Dee could be hobbled together as an echo of Kirby with some of Meta Knight's moves to fill in for moves Dee can't do

 

[SmashingXan2]

seems solid, although i woudln't discount impa as an echo...


i don't want to brag but like... a thousand pages ago I toyed with teh idea of Richter as a speedier Simon belmont clone as a way to have all the belmonts in teh game (Cristopher and trevor for simon alts, Juste, julius and leon for ritcher alts) but yeah.. it was before we knew about echoes amd i honestly made the post half jokingly (considering i was putting tons of castlevania stuff there for the giggles)






I fear we may not get new stages.... believe me i want more of them, specially after donkey knog being shafted with 2 stages, a new dkc stage would been rad, and a minecraft stage, but the smash site already have shown 103 stages exactly.

It can be updated. There are still empty spaces in the in game stage menu too

 

[KingBroly]

At this point the Echoes are more of a surprise than the Newcomers. We've been surprised twice thus far.

 

[SvartWolf]

Something to consider regarding relevancy though:

Could K. Rool's nostalgia factor sell more DK games? Probably.

Could Simon or Richter do the same for Castlevania? Yeah, I think so.

What does Geno sell more of? Super Mario RPG... 2......?

Honestly, Castlevania is just ready for a revival. there isn't literally a better moment for a castlevania game that right now.
-nes and snes min success means that castlevania, castlevania 2 and super castlevania 4 have exposure, even for people that doesn't knew the series.
-the metroidvania never have been so healthy outside of castlevania and metroid.
-the netflix series have been dubbed as teh best videogame adaptation to teh screen ever (mind you, it wasnt too hard) and have raised teh brand awareness even to non gamers.
-the bloodstained kickstarter massive success shown that there is a demand for more castlevania or castlevania like stuff.
-heck, even the great success of Bloodstained, ritual of the moon have shown that there is a market even for classicvanias.
-and now Castlevania featured prominently in smash...

 

[N3ON]

Given a choice between Banjo or Isaac, who would you take?

I know you're not the best at these sort of choices, but if you could only have one...?

I don't knowwwwwwww

I love all my children equally!! ;_;

I wanted Banjo longer (since he's older), but I stopped thinking he'd ever make it from like 2002-15. And during all that time I supported Isaac, so I've supported him longer, and done a lot more for his cause.

I suppose... I suppose Banjo. Because the fan community is making strides to include Isaac in their projects, but I've seen no such effort with Banjo. Though idk, if we get Isaac in Smash the chances of GS getting more love shoot back up...

Honestly getting either would complete my Smash career and I'd retire happy.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Even if Metal Mario can't be playable, he should still appear as some sort of sub-boss like in 64 and Melee. Since this is the "Ultimate" version of Smash Brothers I hope the Smash Team brings him back in classic mode as a reference to the original Smash Brothers.

You could already play as Metal Mario by having Mario acquire a Metal Box anyway. It's not permanent, but at least it works. And in terms of Classic mode, the game can always give Mario a permanent metal status, and alter his knockback taken multiplier.

 

[Mc.Rad]

I just wanna give a shoutout to Richter Belmont for singlehandedly killing and burying every single fake 'leak' up to this point. No survivors. Brutal.

I heard that Loz18 hadn't heard about the Echos... So I have no ideal how his sources are working... I mean... I'm not a leaker so I wouldn't know for sure