Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

Metal Mario would not work at all, especially considering that the Metal Box makes fighters 4.5x heavier than normal, AND subtracts 30 base knockback units from any attack (excluding the attacks that can bypass the Metal Box's weight and knockback resistance bonuses) that the fighter takes.



With 5 characters being revealed today, the roster count is now up to 73.

Who said he'd have to take on the same properties as wearing the actual metal cap? Just make him a much heavier and slower Doc Mario. Heavier than any other character in the game, but still within reasonable terms. Get rid of the permanent super armor, and only give him that within certain attacks instead, like his Smash attacks, his UpB, his Down B, and his Dair. His attack speed would still be more or less the same as Doc. His fall speed, gravity, and weight would all be much higher though, making him a riskier fighter offstage. And his run and walk speed would be terrible.

Change his B from Pills into Iron Balls, which travel a VERY short distance, don't bounce, and behave almost like Villager's bowling ball, making it good for edgeguarding.

Change his Side B from the Cape, to a "reflector" only type move. He throws out his chest, flashes, and projectiles are reflected. If people hit him, it works as a tank move, meaning he takes reduced damage, and ZERO knockback and hitstun.

Everything else is the same. Super easy to make, would be iconic and a nice callback to 64, where he was a boss. Hell, I could even make him myself within like a week of the game being hackable, it's that easy. Especially since the Metal Box is already in game, giving characters that look and sound effects. Doesn't even have a voice either, which makes him intimidating too. So all the assets are there. You just need to rig Mario's model with the Metal Cap to Doctor Mario's Skeleton. Change the properties on the B spec, and add new effects to assets. Do a VERY simple animation for his Side B and replace the Cape with it.

And change a number of properties on his attacks, giving some of them super armor, tweaking damage and frame data too. And change his character parameters in fall speed, gravity, etc... (which literally takes like 2 mins). Really, it's much more work to add his stage: Metal Cavern in, than it is to add him into the game. Again, it'd be a nice little nod to OG 64 to bring him back as a boss, and then reward players by making him playable once they beat him in hard mode or something. Which was a common rumor from the 64 era.

 

[RandomAce]

I think there's no coincidence to the fact that every character so far was within the top 20 of the polls for both the west and Japan. If there's one pattern that will continue, it's that we'll see more characters that placed high in those show up as either newcomers, echoes, or ATs.

I also don't think Xenoblade is getting any more playable characters. THAT one, I'm willing to bet on.



I honestly don't have a problem with that at all. All would be forgiven if that's the case.

Honestly, how do you even know they’re in the top 20? Some are guessable, but Simon? Daisy?

Yep. Seven Fire Emblem characters. That's equal to Pokemon. Greater than The Legend of Zelda. Still greater than Donkey Kong and Metroid despite their new characters. Greater than Kirby and Star Fox combined. Only one character away from being equal to Super Mario.

Not to mention, we literally have four variations of the same character now. Marth, Lucina the Marth clone, Roy the Marth semi-clone, and Chrom the Roy clone.

Sakurai had concerns with the oversaturation of Fire Emblem characters before adding in Corrin. Corrin made it in because he'd be used to promote an upcoming title and the devs convinced Sakurai he'd be unique. Yet, here's Chrom. I know Sakurai has went back on his word before, but to do a 180 so soon is quite the curveball.

I suppose his reasoning is that he’s an echo. He’s easy to make and isn’t considered a sepeerat character (e25). So by shoving all the echoes into their counterpart slots, Fire Emblem really only has 5. That’s how I count the roster.

Like there are 72 characters, but in reality the number is really only at 67.

 

[SvartWolf]

I heard that Loz18 hadn't heard about the Echos... So I have no ideal how his sources are working... I mean... I'm not a leaker so I wouldn't know for sure

i wild guess could be that echoes probably don't need to be tested as extensively as full fledged fighters? so they barely playtest echoes outside of the team. so far not a single echo have been leaked...

 

[Primal Cookie]

I wonder if Bandana Dee could be hobbled together as an echo of Kirby with some of Meta Knight's moves to fill in for moves Dee can't do

I'm not sure how they would make that work. Bandana Dee just has too many things that aren't shared with either to be an echo.

 

[KingIceSonic]

Looking back at it now it makes perfect sense that Dixie Kong wasn't shown as an echo fighter in the direct.

King K Rool was supposed to be the surprise announcement at the end of the direct. If they would have shown Dixie Kong as an echo(Next to Chrom and DS) then EVERYONE would have started thinking about K Rool and if he is in or not. That could have maybe spoiled the surprise because then people would be expecting to see him at the end of the direct.

I think we all kind of expected K Rool to be in but most of us didnt expect him to be announced today(especially because of the leak)

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Actually, I think Kamek is likely (if Sakurai cares about my boi that is). K. Rool's trailer isn't called "Villains" or "Main Antagonists." It's called "RIVALS." That describes the Magikoopa to a T in the Yoshi games even if he's not the main bad guy...

Let's try to remember that the Magikoopa species first debuted in a Super Mario Bros. series title. Also, Magikoopas are called Kameks in Japan, and at this point, it's pretty clear that generic enemies typically don't make the playable cut.

 

[DJ3DS]

I really want to know more about the "squad strike" mode. I get that it can effectively allow for some kind of crew battle, but it also demonstrates a single person having access to all 5. What happens then? I'm hoping it'll then just work like PM All Star Mode (or the ending of Smash Tour) where you get a new character per stock.

 

[Murlough]

So, I rewatched the trailers again and it looks like they give Pikachu a Mimikyu-color alt. You can see it during Simon's trailer while he is twirling his whip.

It could just be the lighting but that may have more implications about skins in Ultimate considering we thought we knew how many Pikachu had and what they were. I don't recall Pikachu having a Mimikyu alt in the demo....

 

[Mc.Rad]

i wild guess could be that echoes probably don't need to be tested as extensively as full fledged fighters? so they barely playtest echoes outside of the team. so far not a single echo have been leaked...

I guess you are right... I also hear that he's getting other sources and that he knows about two newcomers, one of them suspected of being Skull Kid. I think he's not an insider but knows the right people. He also stated that Geno, Isabell, and Issac may not be real characters in his own opinion.

 

[monadoboy]

Am I the only fool that thought the Medusa in the Simon reveal was the Kid Icarus Medusa?

 

[Will]

Let's try to remember that the Magikoopa species first debuted in a Super Mario Bros. series title. Also, Magikoopas are called Kameks in Japan, and at this point, it's pretty clear that generic enemies typically don't make the playable cut.

is this one of them there "hat goomba" arguments

 

[RandomAce]

I just wanna give a shoutout to Richter Belmont for singlehandedly killing and burying every single fake 'leak' up to this point. No survivors. Brutal.

I just realized this right now.

Not a single leak I read had Richter at all (maybe one).

So we’re back in square 1. When it comes to leaks. Even Verge and Loz didn’t know about him.

Speaking of Verge and Loz, did say anything recently?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

@ManlySpirit: Like I've said already, Mario can always acquire a Metal Box to temporarily become Metal Mario. And the game can modify Mario so that he has a permanent metal status, and increase his knockback taken multiplier to make him less absurd to fight.

 

[ned_ballad]

A few leaks have Richter, but they had him as the only Castlevania rep. None had him as an echo.

I just realized this right now.

Not a single leak I read had Richter at all (maybe one).

So we’re back in square 1. When it comes to leaks. Even Verge and Loz didn’t know about him.

Speaking of Verge and Loz, did say anything recently?

Loz said he heard Skull Kid was in

 

[Mc.Rad]

I actually realized something... the site has again "leaked" info about Smash Ultimate. Mute City (Melee) will be returning to Smash Ultimate... Because Mute City (3DS) is called Mute City SNES like how the GB Kirby's Dreamland is called Dreamland GB to not confuse it with the Dreamland stage... That or there is a new Mute City

 

[Murlough]

I just realized this right now.

Not a single leak I read had Richter at all (maybe one).

So we’re back in square 1. When it comes to leaks. Even Verge and Loz didn’t know about him.

Speaking of Verge and Loz, did say anything recently?

Just because they don't know something doesn't mean they are wrong though.

Verg has stated multiple times he may have bad info on certain things or that he doesn't know something for sure. He still got Simon right.

 

[RandomAce]

Looking back at it now it makes perfect sense that Dixie Kong wasn't shown as an echo fighter in the direct.

King K Rool was supposed to be the surprise announcement at the end of the direct. If they would have shown Dixie Kong as an echo(Next to Chrom and DS) then EVERYONE would have started thinking about K Rool and if he is in or not. That could have maybe spoiled the surprise because then people would be expecting to see him at the end of the direct.

I think we all kind of expected K Rool to be in but most of us didnt expect him to be announced today(especially because of the leak)

Well, honestly. They should’ve showed Dixie during the King K. Rool. Like in near the end of the reveal where King K. Rool head butted then and have Dixie pop in and make a little splash card.

The fact that she wasn’t makes me a bit worried about her chances.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't knowwwwwwww

I love all my children equally!! ;_;

I wanted Banjo longer (since he's older), but I stopped thinking he'd ever make it from like 2002-15. And during all that time I supported Isaac, so I've supported him longer, and done a lot more for his cause.

I suppose... I suppose Banjo. Because the fan community is making strides to include Isaac in their projects, but I've seen no such effort with Banjo. Though idk, if we get Isaac in Smash the chances of GS getting more love shoot back up...

Honestly getting either would complete my Smash career and I'd retire happy.

>Smash Career
You almost make it sound like you play Smash professionally as opposed to just lurk these boards and ****post like the rest of us.

Is the community still working on completing Isaac for PM btw? I stopped following that ages ago after friends of a CERTAIN development team making SPECIFIC game took every step necessary to stop people from working on the 4.0 leaks.

Honestly, how do you even know they’re in the top 20? Some are guessable, but Simon? Daisy?

I suppose his reasoning is that he’s an echo. He’s easy to make and isn’t considered a sepeerat character (e25). So by shoving all the echoes into their counterpart slots, Fire Emblem really only has 5. That’s how I count the roster.

Like there are 72 characters, but in reality the number is really only at 67.

Yes, Daisy:

I've seen Simon show up in polls as well, and place decently high. And in the west, the top 3 were frequently K.Rool, Banjo and Isaac in that order. With K.Rool pretty much always topping out the charts. I'd have to go hunting for more polls from like 3-4 years ago, but I do recall seeing Simon show up from time to time too. He wasn't that unpredictable. Not obvious mind you, but I wasn't surprised to see him leaked. Even before 4 came out, he was mentioned from time to time. Problem is, he just competed with Snake. People never thought we could get TWO Konami reps.

 

[NeonBurrito]

I think differently. I think Chrom makes Shadow more possible, because hopefully he won't have two spin dashes.

Take Sonic, give him a new coat of paint, make his Down-B a Witch Time clone and his Up-B a Teleport clone.
Done. Brand new echo fighter. Pay me Sakurai.

 

[Mc.Rad]

Just because they don't know something doesn't mean they are wrong though.
Verge has stated multiple times he may have bad info on certain things or that he doesn't know something for sure. He still got Simon right.

Loz18 also stated some characters are being added due to reviving interest in certain franchises? That along with the Heros VS Villians theme makes me believe that ethier Black Bull or Deathborn will be in. And if Vergeben is to be believed... Deathborn is going to be the controversial character

I honestly think that bringing some pieces together will help paint us a full pic

 

[RandomAce]

Just because they don't know something doesn't mean they are wrong though.

Verg has stated multiple times he may have bad info on certain things or that he doesn't know something for sure. He still got Simon right.

That wasn’t my point. I’m talking about all those 4chan text leaks that stated they had the full roster as well as some of the more convincing ones.

However, having Verg and Loz not know that Richter was in, states they got their information early in development since Richter is an echo that might’ve been added later. (Or Idk, they might have decided to plan to use him from the start).

 

[Hinata]

I just wanna give a shoutout to Richter Belmont for singlehandedly killing and burying every single fake 'leak' up to this point. No survivors. Brutal.

Wow, I didn't even think about that until now.

 

[meowth_thats_wrong]

I really want to know more about the "squad strike" mode. I get that it can effectively allow for some kind of crew battle, but it also demonstrates a single person having access to all 5. What happens then? I'm hoping it'll then just work like PM All Star Mode (or the ending of Smash Tour) where you get a new character per stock.

"Create a team of 3 or 5 fighters and take on your opponent’s squad one by one in a multi-fighter battle!"
With how it's worded on the website, it does sound like it's one character per stock within a single battle.

 

[KMDP]

I just wanna give a shoutout to Richter Belmont for singlehandedly killing and burying every single fake 'leak' up to this point. No survivors. Brutal.

Fake leak: "h-"
Richter: "Be gone! You don't belong in this world, monster!"

Dang it Meowth, I was going to make that joke.

 

[Deleted member]

@ManlySpirit: Like I've said already, Mario can always acquire a Metal Box to temporarily become Metal Mario. And the game can modify Mario so that he has a permanent metal status, and increase his knockback taken multiplier to make him less absurd to fight.

It'd take more tweaking than that imo. Be he would be an interesting fighter, purely on attributes alone, he could be quite a fun permanent fighter on the roster. And he's probably THE easiest echo to make out of all of them.

I would highly welcome Metal Mario, if anything for the novelty and nostalgia factors.

 

[Deleted member]

Take Sonic, give him a new coat of paint, make his Down-B a Witch Time clone and his Up-B a Teleport clone.
Done. Brand new echo fighter. Pay me Sakurai.

Make his neutral special a gun while we're at it

 

[Dragoncharystary]

I think the Chef Kawasaki assist trophy helps out Bandanna Dee a little bit. If Dee isn't playable, then he'd have to be the Kirby Series Assist Trophy. Still possible we could get two new Kirby assists, but that seems rather unlikely to me and I believe we're also starting to run up against the 50 Assist Trophy limit.

 

[Deleted member]

He truly is our hero.

View attachment 156426

Man, Ritcher looks amazing in this game.

 

[Murlough]

He's also stated some characters are being added due to reviving interest in certain franchises? That along with the Heros VS Villians theme makes me believe that ethier Black Bull or Deathborn will be in. And if Vergeben is to be believed... Deathborn is going to be the controversial character

I have no idea who either of those characters are.

That wasn’t my point. I’m talking about all those 4chan text leaks that stated they had the full roster as well as some of the more convincing ones.

However, having Verg and Loz not know that Richter was in, states they got their information early in development since Richter is an echo that might’ve been added later. (Or Idk, they might have decided to plan to use him from the start).

I figured.

Yeah, I never put any value in any of the pointless text leaks. Can't wait for more of those to start popping up after this >.>

 

[Smearglangelo]

Man, Ritcher looks amazing in this game.

Stupid sexy Richter...

 

[Deleted member]

I have no idea who either of those characters are.

F-Zero villains. Black Shadow is the main villain in the anime, and Deathborn from what I understand is the F-Zero version of Satan.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Am I the only fool that thought the Medusa in the Simon reveal was the Kid Icarus Medusa?

Most definitely...the Kid Icarus Medusa is much more attractive when she’s calm

Spoiler

 

[Iridium]

So, does anybody know if Tingle has been deconfirmed? I think I saw him on Great Bay, but I haven't heard one mention of him by anybody, even Sakurai himself . . .

 

[RandomAce]

>Smash Career
You almost make it sound like you play Smash professionally as opposed to just lurk these boards and ****post like the rest of us.

Is the community still working on completing Isaac for PM btw? I stopped following that ages ago after friends of a CERTAIN development team making SPECIFIC game took every step necessary to stop people from working on the 4.0 leaks.


Yes, Daisy:

I've seen Simon show up in polls as well, and place decently high. And in the west, the top 3 were frequently K.Rool, Banjo and Isaac in that order. With K.Rool pretty much always topping out the charts. I'd have to go hunting for more polls from like 3-4 years ago, but I do recall seeing Simon show up from time to time too. He wasn't that unpredictable. Not obvious mind you, but I wasn't surprised to see him leaked. Even before 4 came out, he was mentioned from time to time. Problem is, he just competed with Snake. People never thought we could get TWO Konami reps.

As for Daisy:
Just using one source doesn’t explain the actual results of the ballot.

A lot of the bigger polls don’t even feature Daisy ranking that high.

As for Simon:
I need to see more concrete information. During the ballot, Simon was no where to be seen since most people just wanted Snake back.

It seems that Simon was mostly added since his series was a critical part of Nintendo’s history during the NES era. Not to mention that Castlevania had a big impact on Sakurai. The Castlevania series definitely has a lot of fans that probably wanted to see the series in Smash. However, Simon consistently wasn’t mentioned during the ballot.

But nonetheless having Simon in was probably a good thing.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

If they end up giving Dark Samus she/her pronouns then it means that DS is. The same thing happened with Mettaton in Undertale, so that's how I treat these things. Don't blame me, blame Toby Fox.

What's that about Mettaton? Thought he was a trans ghost that specifically wanted a male body. Has this been retconned?

 

[Dan]

Has the only legit leak been the Castlevania music yesterday? Was K. Rool leaked? During Etika's reaction he said the leaks were real.

What more is there to Vergeben other than him saying Isabelle is the most likely? Did he ever talk about Geno? A lot of his posts have been removed.

Well, honestly. They should’ve showed Dixie during the King K. Rool. Like in near the end of the reveal where King K. Rool head butted then and have Dixie pop in and make a little splash card.

The fact that she wasn’t makes me a bit worried about her chances.

Yeah, but Dark Samus should've also helped Ridley destroy Mario & friends.

 

[Deleted member]

So, does anybody know if Tingle has been deconfirmed? I think I saw him on Great Bay, but I haven't heard one mention of him by anybody, even Sakurai himself . . .

Tingle is still flying his balloon on Great Bay.

It's possible they dropped his assist because of his role on this stage, but that's unconfirmed. There's also still the (very low) possibility he's playable with a non-Majora's Mask design, but I don't think that's happening. Shame, Tingle's the only Zelda character I'd really want.

Has the only legit leak been the Castlevania music yesterday? Was K. Rool leaked? During Etika's reaction he said the leaks were real.

K. Rool is on practically every "leak" list, so I guess all of them are legit, but also none of them are because of Richter.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

What's that about Mettaton? Thought he was a trans ghost that specifically wanted a male body. Has this been retconned?

That’s just a headcanon. The ghosts use they/them pronouns by default but Napstablook seemed somewhat masculine, so

 

[Mc.Rad]

I have no idea who either of those characters are.

I think this quote makes this thing pretty solid

F-Zero villains. Black Shadow is the main villain in the anime, and Deathborn from what I understand is the F-Zero version of Satan.

Also Black Shadow is more of a arch-enemy (even though he has like 4-ish of those) and Deathborn is actually more like Thanos... I'm not even joking here... His goal is to determine life and death throughout the universe by combining the powers of the two belts that supposedly have the energy of Darkness and Light in them...

 

[Pyra]

Tingle is still flying his balloon on Great Bay.

It's possible they dropped his assist because of his role on this stage, but that's unconfirmed. There's also still the (very low) possibility he's playable with a non-Majora's Mask design, but I don't think that's happening. Shame, Tingle's the only Zelda character I'd really want.

The moon is still in the stage...