Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[NintenRob]

Smash brothers needs more third party characters. Third party characters are always the most interesting type of character. What third party character has the highest chances of making it in? I am so confused.

I completely disagree. Third parties characters in Smash should be limited to legacy character, iconic powerhouses. Smash is a Nintendo crossover and having too many third parties would just undermine both that as well as the impact the ones we have already gotten have had.

Also what you said barely relates to what I was talking about.

 

[Cosmic77]

I don't think there's any rules or anything pertaining to more than one character from a third party franchise but I feel like there's very unlikely considering how many possibilities there are for other, more exciting, 3rd party characters.

You won't hear me complaining if Sakurai decided to give Sonic or Mega Man a second character, but there are so many other third-party franchises that have yet to have been tapped into. It just seems redundant to revisit the ones that you've already included.

I completely disagree. Third parties characters in Smash should be limited to legacy character, iconic powerhouses. Smash is a Nintendo crossover and having too many third parties would just undermine both that as well as the impact the ones we have already gotten have had.

I agree. Sakurai is stretching the third-party limit enough as is. I know third-party requests are very popular, but he needs to put a cap on how many he adds for each game. This is a cast of Nintendo all-stars with some guest characters, not a tribute to video games as a whole.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Who would want to see a Smash Bros. RPG? I would absolutely love it and honestly, I'd rather have it over another fighting game because I know what to expect if the roster gets larger (basically the same thing).

In fact, give me an anime, comic book, or a movie and I will be at peace. Smash has amazing potential for a story and I'm disappointed that the SSE was such a waste back in Brawl.

This brings me to something I've been thinking about for a while now. How would all of you feel if we got Smash Bros Spin-Offs on the Switch? Things such as Super Smash Kart or a 3D Smash game with a focus on story. Many Nintendo franchises have spin-offs of their own so I don't see why Smash has to be any different.

 

[Cosmic77]

This brings me to something I've been thinking about for a while now. How would all of you feel if we got Smash Bros Spin-Offs on the Switch? Things such as Super Smash Kart or a 3D Smash game with a focus on story. Many Nintendo franchises have spin-offs of their own so I don't see why Smash has to be any different.

I think Nintendo's finally picked up on the hint that they should add characters from other franchises into Mario Kart. Here's to hoping a Warp Star-riding Kirby makes it in Mario Kart 9.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I think Nintendo's finally picked up on the hint that they should add characters from other franchises into Mario Kart. Here's to hoping a Warp Star-riding Kirby makes it in Mario Kart 9.

It would also be interesting if something like a Nintendo & SEGA racing title were ever considered. Of course, the roster amount would have to be balanced between the two companies, while also not going too overboard with the Mario & Sonic characters.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, they funded both Bayo 2 and 3.

At this point, it might as well be a situation similar to Pokemon.

Not unless they at least partially own the franchise which they don't. Bayonetta is always going to be a third-party as long as Sega keeps it, it just happens to be relatively easy to license.

You won't hear me complaining if Sakurai decided to give Sonic or Mega Man a second character, but there are so many other third-party franchises that have yet to have been tapped into. It just seems redundant to revisit the ones that you've already included.



I agree. Sakurai is stretching the third-party limit enough as is. I know third-party requests are very popular, but he needs to put a limit on how many he adds for each game. This is a cast of Nintendo all-stars with some guest characters, not a tribute to video games as a whole.

That makes me wonder, could it be that DLC is a place for additional third-party characters to make their way to Smash if they can't get into the base roster? We got two third-party newcomers in Smash 4's base roster with Mega Man and Pac-Man and three third-party newcomers as DLC. Considering that DLC is an unessential part of the roster, it serves as a compromise between fans who wants limited third-party support and more third-party support; very limited roster spots for new third-party on the base roster while giving a greater emphasis to them as DLC. It can also be a licensing workaround for third-parties as it is possible they get more of a cut.

This brings me to something I've been thinking about for a while now. How would all of you feel if we got Smash Bros Spin-Offs on the Switch? Things such as Super Smash Kart or a 3D Smash game with a focus on story. Many Nintendo franchises have spin-offs of their own so I don't see why Smash has to be any different.

They might as well rebrand Mario Kart into Super Smash Bros. Kart if they want to increase focus on guest characters.

As for how I feel, I'm not sure about a Super Smash Bros. Kart. For some reason, I don't see how it would work out unless they made it feel different. A 3D Smash story game on the other hand, would be one of my most anticipated title ever if it turns out to be good.

 

[Cosmic77]

That makes me wonder, could it be that DLC is a place for additional third-party characters to make their way to Smash if they can't get into the base roster? We got two third-party newcomers in Smash 4's base roster with Mega Man and Pac-Man and three third-party newcomers as DLC. Considering that DLC is an unessential part of the roster, it serves as a compromise between fans who wants limited third-party support and more third-party support; very limited roster spots for new third-party on the base roster while giving a greater emphasis to them as DLC. It can also be a licensing workaround for third-parties as it is possible they get more of a cut.

That certainly seems to be the case for Smash 4. It wouldn't be far-fetched to say that Sakurai had considered what Ryu and Cloud would be like in Smash even before DLC was decided upon. Perhaps he saw DLC as the perfect opportunity to add some of the third-party characters that didn't get picked over Mega Man and Pac-Man.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Well, Smash 4 introduced the concept of a third-party company having more than one character (SEGA has Sonic and Bayo, Capcom has Mega Man and Ryu), so I wouldn't say it's impossible. Probably not a priority, but still not impossible.

Capcom doesn't entirely count. It's two separate companies. Capcom Co.(MegaMan) and Capcom USA(Ryu). Sega was the actual first straight example of this.

Not that it was ever a realistic rule to begin with, though. There's thoughts that 3rd party franchises are likely to get 1 character, but that's more due to how Sakurai tries to avoid oversaturating a series. It's part of the reason why he only wanted Kirby playable in Melee, for instance. This is a reason he also is picky about Pokemon characters. He just needs the stand outs, as well over 20 Pokemon have potential for a fun moveset, but there's only so much space, and while franchises can clearly get a ton of content, a limit has to be put forth to keep the representation not extreme for any given series. Obviously it doesn't mean series won't still feel overloaded at times to players, but he still shows this more than once. The cuts going into Smash 4 were solely from Pokemon, the biggest set of characters in Brawl(6 total, as he didn't count Pokemon Trainer as a proper character). Let's note among other cuts, was Mario otherwise(with Dr. Mario being lower priority, same with Roy. Only Pokemon got a cut otherwise, and both of the aforementioned characters as well as Mewtwo were planned at some point for Brawl, some getting further than others. The rest were unique ideas or something that didn't work out, like Dixie).

Related, this is why people expect cuts to likely happen to much bigger series than others. Although it's obviously far less simple than that(Fire Emblem has a bit of a rotating cast due to how the game introduces tons of characters, and Pokemon isn't entirely different in comparison. Mario, on the other hand, only has one obvious cut if ever, being the Doc, while the rest earned their keep permanently by being key characters). Some smaller series do see a cut because the less important characters(or least popular, depends) are less relevant at that time, which is why Lucas and Wolf were easy cuts. Ice Climbers, like the other retros, only got cut due to 3DS issues(and possibly weren't fully playable in 8-Player Smash, but that's just a guess). Most 1-of-character series tend to be safe otherwise. Unless they're 3rd party, of course.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Am thinking the whole Mega Man inclusion was hugely based on a business deal anyway. Since the Wii U, 3rd party support skyrocketed. So, logically they included one of the most popular 3rd party characters. Now, he's getting a game on the Switch. I bet if Cloud stays in Smash Switch, the FF7 remake is gonna be ported to Switch.

That's why am not too keen on all these 3rd party additions. They seem like business opportunites most of the time. Street Fighter on 3DS all of a sudden after Ryu is in Smash 4... I bet Shulk also got in cause there's a clear continuation of the Xenoblade franchise. Giant MMORPGs like those take a long time to develop I imagine.

I think Fire Emblem also needed the huge boost in character additions to keep the franchise at its popularity speak.

It worked. Smash made all these things possible. And that's why am extremely anxious my most favorite characters from two beloved franchises; DKC with King K.Rool and Golden Sun with Isaac won't ever make it. They are not revelant and missed out on recent appearances for whatever reason. Now, it seems they are fading into obscurity. I hope the ballot can do some wonders for them. A Smash appearance might just open new doors for them.

 

[Deleted member]

I completely disagree. Third parties characters in Smash should be limited to legacy character, iconic powerhouses. Smash is a Nintendo crossover and having too many third parties would just undermine both that as well as the impact the ones we have already gotten have had.

Also what you said barely relates to what I was talking about.

I am sorry, I thought you were talking about Sega. So I thought third parties. I kind of agree in a way, but a few more third parties would be nice. It got a whole lot more interesting when Brawl introduced Snake and Sonic, maybe it would be even interesting. Third parties would make the fans pleased but I guess it would ruin it being a Nintendo game.

You won't hear me complaining if Sakurai decided to give Sonic or Mega Man a second character, but there are so many other third-party franchises that have yet to have been tapped into. It just seems redundant to revisit the ones that you've already included.



I agree. Sakurai is stretching the third-party limit enough as is. I know third-party requests are very popular, but he needs to put a cap on how many he adds for each game. This is a cast of Nintendo all-stars with some guest characters, not a tribute to video games as a whole.

I really doubt Sakurai is stretching the third part limit, I mean there is only five. I do not care if they stop making third parties but they should make more Nintendo characters than third party. Still, staying five is the limit is kind of too small. Eight would be the limit for third parties.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Am thinking the whole Mega Man inclusion was hugely based on a business deal anyway. Since the Wii U, 3rd party support skyrocketed. So, logically they included one of the most popular 3rd party characters. Now, he's getting a game on the Switch. I bet if Cloud stays in Smash Switch, the FF7 remake is gonna be ported to Switch.

That's why am not too keen on all these 3rd party additions. They seem like business opportunites most of the time. Street Fighter on 3DS all of a sudden after Ryu is in Smash 4... I bet Shulk also got in cause there's a clear continuation of the Xenoblade franchise. Giant MMORPGs like those take a long time to develop I imagine.

I think Fire Emblem also needed the huge boost in character additions to keep the franchise at its popularity speak.

It worked. Smash made all these things possible. And that's why am extremely anxious my most favorite characters from two beloved franchises; DKC with King K.Rool and Golden Sun with Isaac won't ever make it. They are not revelant and missed out on recent appearances for whatever reason. Now, it seems they are fading into obscurity. I hope the ballot can do some wonders for them. A Smash appearance might just open new doors for them.

All of your third party examples were quoted to be done due to fan demand.

Shulk had evidence of fan demand too.

 

[Deleted member]

Third Party characters you say?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Third Party characters you say?

...Is that a makeshift amiibo somebody made?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

...Is that a makeshift amiibo somebody made?

It's obviously a photoshopped Little Mac

 

[Deleted member]

...Is that a makeshift amiibo somebody made?

Nah, it's totally a legit leak, mang.
I've got my sources.


....but seriously, it's a Photoshop from what I can tell. Not an actual custom amiibo.

 

[A Distant Demon]

For every 2 mods that fall, 3 take their place.

We ain't HYDRA, but we're working on it.


Also, mods may want to pick a new poll topic. I can't change them anymore haha. May I suggest the likelihood of Smash being announced at a January Direct/Presentation? (I already have the current results saved)

 

[Deleted member]

For every 2 mods that fall, 3 take their place.

We ain't HYDRA, but we're working on it.


Also, mods may want to pick a new poll topic. I can't change them anymore haha. May I suggest the likelihood of Smash being announced at a January Direct/Presentation? (I already have the current results saved)

I can not wait to see the results. They might be more on the "not possible or 50/50" side, but we will see. Nintendo's announcements are always unpredictable.
If Smash 5 is announced, SmashBoards is going to get wild. Best fortune to you co-moderators and moderators.
Smash for Switch will probably announce new characters, and the first is probably going to be an Inkling. The inklings are too popular to be ignored at this point.

It's obviously a photoshopped Little Mac

That is one altered Little Mac, is his Doc Louis his Digimon trainer?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Poll is updated~

All votes are reset too. So have fun. Sorry if you just voted, but had no choice, as this is my first time editing a poll~

 

[A Distant Demon]

Poll is updated~

All votes are reset too. So have fun. Sorry if you just voted, but had no choice, as this is my first time editing a poll~

Well I think my original idea of smash being at the direct than there being a direct at all is way more interesting (since the direct is basically inevitable) but it works as a poll.

(also, you have to reset the votes every time you change poll. or else you get answers to the last poll carrying over)

 

[Cyn]

Poll is updated~

Philosophical time.

Everything in life has a 50-50 chance. 50% chance something will happen and 50% chance it won't.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Philosophical time.

Everything in life has a 50-50 chance. 50% chance something will happen and 50% chance it won't.

View attachment 134827

Nah. It's either 100% or 0%
It either will happen, or won't.

*sound of statisticians screaming in the background.*

 

[Cyn]

Nah. It's either 100% or 0%
It either will happen, or won't.

*sound of statisticians screaming in the background.*

I don't think you know what you are talking about.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

So while we're still on the topic of the inevitable January Direct, I believe if Smash at all gets announced there, it will be a port of Smash 4 on the Switch because it's still too soon for Smash 5.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

So while we're still on the topic of the inevitable January Direct, I believe if Smash at all gets announced there, it will be a port of Smash 4 on the Switch because it's still too soon for Smash 5.

I'm not so sure it's too soon for a proper Smash 5. It's already feeling fairly late to announce a port. That said, if it's a new game, it won't release till 2019 or 2020.

 

[NintenRob]

I feel like a port would be missing out on too much stuff.

Since the last Smash, we've already had or have coming

Super Mario Odyssey
Zelda Breath of the Wild
Samus Returns
Planet Robobot
Xenoblade 2
Pokemon oras
Xenoblade X
Splatoon 2
Arms
Kirby Star Allies
Pokemon Sun and Moon
Sonic Mania and Forces
Mega Man 11
Metroid Prime 4
Bayonetta 3
Pokemon Switch
Yoshi
Star Fox Zero
A lot of Fire Emblem
Even more Kirby
Plenty more Mario

And this is a list that is only going to grow as time goes on. Smash is not the same as Mario Kart.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

All a port means is that the general key previous content will be there, characters included(well, should all be there, depends how they were licensed). It does not mean the lack of new content. More stuff would obviously be added to promote some various things.

Also, to be fair, a lot think Wolf would come back in a port, and that makes it easy to give him an updated design fitting SFZ. Beyond that, Link probably wouldn't get too much BOTW stuff either way, as an extreme redesign is too offputting. It'd likely be just giving him bits and pieces, even less than what he got between Melee and Brawl, which gave him the TP version in pretty much every possible way(which was not really any different from Young Link being updated to Toon Link).

I honestly doubt we'd get zero content from that other stuff even with a port. The thing is, the biggest and more important part of a port isn't the random stuff like trophies, which can be changed out here and there, it's the characters and stages(and items more or less). Music kind of varies. A lot of this stuff would still be noted.

And even if it wasn't, getting a regular sequel is still beyond likely to happen down the line. Another thing to keep in mind is Sakurai might not even be directing the next Smash(might be for a port, but an all new game is another story), so a lot of philosophies could change a bit. So anything we already had official rules for when it comes to character selection could change. Even fanrules could become reality for all we know. That's kind of how odd this situation is(as much a I hate to repeat this, Iwata's death affected a lot more than Nintendo itself and us. He's the reason Sakurai has consistently been asked to be Smash's director. Without him, it's not a clear-cut easy decision anymore. There's a lot to take into account, and while I do think Sakurai has a good chance to stay the director for a bit, he also has things like hand and health issues that makes it a good idea to have him as a lesser(but still important) role to the series, which is understandable for the reasons above. First, his health. You want somebody else who can make sure he won't overtax himself there. Another is that Nintendo can allow the series to evolve by letting new directors try different things. This isn't a bad thing. This could go bad, obviously, but it could go good too. Who knows).

That said, the longer we wait, the less likely a port is. I'd say this is the last year it has a remote chance of being revealed, and it would be a less notable reveal than an all new game, so it might be as early as the first Direct of the year(which may be this month). Likewise, if somehow we do get a port announcement, it's probably the only Smash game that has a remote chance of being released this year.

 

[Vipermoon]

This brings me to something I've been thinking about for a while now. How would all of you feel if we got Smash Bros Spin-Offs on the Switch? Things such as Super Smash Kart or a 3D Smash game with a focus on story. Many Nintendo franchises have spin-offs of their own so I don't see why Smash has to be any different.

Smash Mansion. Smash Mansion the video game? YES PLEASE.

 

[Deleted member]

All of your third party examples were quoted to be done due to fan demand.

Shulk had evidence of fan demand too.

Source on fan demand? I've looked on the Web but I could not find anything on Shulk.

Third Party characters you say?

Man I loved watching Digimon when I was a child. I would totally support Agumon if only because of Agumon vs. Pikachu would be an cool rivalry to support in Smash. Plus with Namco Bandai on board as of Smash 3DS/Wii U and Namco's large support of the Switch, a second third-party franchise could easily happen.

People may debate Tekken, Soul Calibur, and Tales characters all they want but this franchise is a bigger deal than what people give it credit for. I actually recall making a thread for this back during the pre-SSB4 days. I might go back and do it again.

 

[NintenRob]

All a port means is that the general key previous content will be there, characters included(well, should all be there, depends how they were licensed). It does not mean the lack of new content. More stuff would obviously be added to promote some various things.

Also, to be fair, a lot think Wolf would come back in a port, and that makes it easy to give him an updated design fitting SFZ. Beyond that, Link probably wouldn't get too much BOTW stuff either way, as an extreme redesign is too offputting. It'd likely be just giving him bits and pieces, even less than what he got between Melee and Brawl, which gave him the TP version in pretty much every possible way(which was not really any different from Young Link being updated to Toon Link).

I honestly doubt we'd get zero content from that other stuff even with a port. The thing is, the biggest and more important part of a port isn't the random stuff like trophies, which can be changed out here and there, it's the characters and stages(and items more or less). Music kind of varies. A lot of this stuff would still be noted.

And even if it wasn't, getting a regular sequel is still beyond likely to happen down the line. Another thing to keep in mind is Sakurai might not even be directing the next Smash(might be for a port, but an all new game is another story), so a lot of philosophies could change a bit. So anything we already had official rules for when it comes to character selection could change. Even fanrules could become reality for all we know. That's kind of how odd this situation is(as much a I hate to repeat this, Iwata's death affected a lot more than Nintendo itself and us. He's the reason Sakurai has consistently been asked to be Smash's director. Without him, it's not a clear-cut easy decision anymore. There's a lot to take into account, and while I do think Sakurai has a good chance to stay the director for a bit, he also has things like hand and health issues that makes it a good idea to have him as a lesser(but still important) role to the series, which is understandable for the reasons above. First, his health. You want somebody else who can make sure he won't overtax himself there. Another is that Nintendo can allow the series to evolve by letting new directors try different things. This isn't a bad thing. This could go bad, obviously, but it could go good too. Who knows).

That said, the longer we wait, the less likely a port is. I'd say this is the last year it has a remote chance of being revealed, and it would be a less notable reveal than an all new game, so it might be as early as the first Direct of the year(which may be this month). Likewise, if somehow we do get a port announcement, it's probably the only Smash game that has a remote chance of being released this year.

Obviously they'd be new stuff regardless of port or not. But a port implies there wouldn't be much.

The most I see happening in a port are Odyssey stage, Botw stage and Splatoon content. Maybe a few other stuff sprinkled in between.


Sometimes when I wonder what people expect from a port.


Of course to me, a port doesn't make sense. It would be missing too much stuff from recent years unless they go all out to the point it may as well be a new game. How would DLC characters be handled? Would they still be missing custom moves, event match roles and guidance? What about trophies? Do they add many new ones? Do all old ones return? What happens to the checklist? Unlockables? Mario Kart 8 and Pokken Tournament made for easy ports as they didn't have much else to take into account. Or have much history to show off, all Pokken needed for Gen 7 was a new character, a pair of helpers and a stage.

 

[Deleted member]

Man I loved watching Digimon when I was a child. I would totally support Agumon if only because of Agumon vs. Pikachu would be an cool rivalry to support in Smash. Plus with Namco Bandai on board as of Smash 3DS/Wii U and Namco's large support of the Switch, a second third-party franchise could easily happen.

People may debate Tekken, Soul Calibur, and Tales characters all they want but this franchise is a bigger deal than what people give it credit for. I actually recall making a thread for this back during the pre-SSB4 days. I might go back and do it again.

The biggest debate is how a character should be handled.
Personally, I think the concept of Digivolution is too important to leave out. So yes, it would be bringing back the concept of a transforming character, but unlike Zelda and Sheik for example, the transformations are meant to be rewarding and not something you can easily switch between mid-battle.

 

[Deleted member]

The biggest debate is how a character should be handled.
Personally, I think the concept of Digivolution is too important to leave out. So yes, it would be bringing back the concept of a transforming character, but unlike Zelda and Sheik for example, the transformations are meant to be rewarding and not something you can easily switch between mid-battle.

That's a good point. But with Digivolution, maybe whoever gets in can activate it as a Final Smash, kind of like Bowser with Giga Bowser.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Source on fan demand? I've looked on the Web but I could not find anything on Shulk.

Wasn't he near the top of multiple fan polls throughout Japan (and high here)?

That combined with the fact that Sakurai does take fan demand into account makes me think it played a large part.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The biggest debate is how a character should be handled.
Personally, I think the concept of Digivolution is too important to leave out. So yes, it would be bringing back the concept of a transforming character, but unlike Zelda and Sheik for example, the transformations are meant to be rewarding and not something you can easily switch between mid-battle.

The funny part is Slide Digivolution is an actual major mechanic of one season. That said, yeah, it's hard to handle just right.

Obviously they'd be new stuff regardless of port or not. But a port implies there wouldn't be much.

The most I see happening in a port are Odyssey stage, Botw stage and Splatoon content. Maybe a few other stuff sprinkled in between.


Sometimes when I wonder what people expect from a port.


Of course to me, a port doesn't make sense. It would be missing too much stuff from recent years unless they go all out to the point it may as well be a new game. How would DLC characters be handled? Would they still be missing custom moves, event match roles and guidance? What about trophies? Do they add many new ones? Do all old ones return? What happens to the checklist? Unlockables? Mario Kart 8 and Pokken Tournament made for easy ports as they didn't have much else to take into account. Or have much history to show off, all Pokken needed for Gen 7 was a new character, a pair of helpers and a stage.

I expect a lot more than a few things from a port. Pokken and Mario Kart also are not the same thing, as they also feel more like Arcade updates compared to full out port updates that we could see. Pokken being an arcade game is one reason, but you also notice how small 8's updates are. Literally something right out of an arcade update(which does ironically seem similar to how Street Fighter does it, but they also have tons of updates for one base game alone anyway).

Port doesn't mean a lack of a lot of stuff. Basically, that's what the "Super"(and etc.) stuff of Street Fighter always was, just a game update, but still kept the old stuff entirely(or to be clear, it'd feel more like combing a lot of the content from the Turbo, Super, and even more updates of SFII into one to add in a port). This is more what seems would work best. A good amount of new content(with more trophies/etc. from many new franchises/games), while keeping most of the old content, and only rotating out things like trophies and perhaps music(and possibly things like AT's or Pokeball Pokemon if they want to not have too many of any franchise's bits). That's okay too. It works best if they don't overdo it. An actual new game wouldn't be like this alone, as new games don't just rotate out content alone, it has cuts(something nobody expects from a port, outside of 3rd parties due to licensing issues at best), fully new mechanics, and more than just a few new characters(like, as is, nobody expects that much from a port for additional characters. Being kind, something around 6-8 seems plausible, if only cause of some vets potentially coming back, coincidentally some being cut from/were already in Brawl that are in high demand).

 

[NintenRob]

The funny part is Slide Digivolution is an actual major mechanic of one season. That said, yeah, it's hard to handle just right.


I expect a lot more than a few things from a port. Pokken and Mario Kart also are not the same thing, as they also feel more like Arcade updates compared to full out port updates that we could see. Pokken being an arcade game is one reason, but you also notice how small 8's updates are. Literally something right out of an arcade update(which does ironically seem similar to how Street Fighter does it, but they also have tons of updates for one base game alone anyway).

Port doesn't mean a lack of a lot of stuff. Basically, that's what the "Super"(and etc.) stuff of Street Fighter always was, just a game update, but still kept the old stuff entirely(or to be clear, it'd feel more like combing a lot of the content from the Turbo, Super, and even more updates of SFII into one to add in a port). This is more what seems would work best. A good amount of new content(with more trophies/etc. from many new franchises/games), while keeping most of the old content, and only rotating out things like trophies and perhaps music(and possibly things like AT's or Pokeball Pokemon if they want to not have too many of any franchise's bits). That's okay too. It works best if they don't overdo it. An actual new game wouldn't be like this alone, as new games don't just rotate out content alone, it has cuts(something nobody expects from a port, outside of 3rd parties due to licensing issues at best), fully new mechanics, and more than just a few new characters(like, as is, nobody expects that much from a port for additional characters. Being kind, something around 6-8 seems plausible, if only cause of some vets potentially coming back, coincidentally some being cut from/were already in Brawl that are in high demand).

So basically you're comparing it to how fighting games have multiple releases (although comparing Smash to other fighting games is never a good idea)

It almost sounds like it would be third pillar to the 3DS version and Wii U version. Which I would be OK with. That would imply new stages, trophies, challenges and songs. Enough to represent the most recent era of Nintendo. Stages should be rotated though as they're one of the most essential parts of representing new Nintendo.

It would be interesting if they took this "third version" approach, especially if they took it the extreme and released any new characters on the Wii U and 3DS version

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

So basically you're comparing it to how fighting games have multiple releases (although comparing Smash to other fighting games is never a good idea)

It almost sounds like it would be third pillar to the 3DS version and Wii U version. Which I would be OK with. That would imply new stages, trophies, challenges and songs. Enough to represent the most recent era of Nintendo. Stages should be rotated though as they're one of the most essential parts of representing new Nintendo.

It would be interesting if they took this "third version" approach, especially if they took it the extreme and released any new characters on the Wii U and 3DS version

Considering you can't really expect much from a port of Smash 4 anyway but to be a third pillar...

And yes, that's the only thing to really look at. Smash has never had anything close to "more than one version", at least beyond basic updates like 1.1, which was, if I remember right, Melee only. Albeit, Brawl did cut some stuff from international releases among the Masterpieces, but it didn't have any proper balance updates that remotely counts. I'm aware it had some online updating, but all it did was let you share stuff, which isn't the same thing.

Basically, the two versions have unique stuff, but that's not exactly much different from how things like Turbo and Hyper Street Fighter II do either(with of course the key difference being that one game has more characters, while Smash has more stages/content that isn't playable characters).

That said, you're also forgetting the time when this is being developed. Recent stuff would be thrown in to promote or due to ease of putting it, various current works. It's a recency thing. BOTW's development time makes it vastly easier to implement/add stuff related to it. In fact, there's not much they'd have to bother cutting beyond maybe some Pokemon stuff(or updating a few Pokeballs to match a few newer things, even if there isn't a new playable Pokemon, or changing out some trophies or music), and that's iffy if they'd bother doing that. We both know Sakurai(and Namco-Bandai apparently) has no issue using similar music. So them having some of the same songs in their updated Gen VII formats isn't too odd. But it also depends if they think some things might be too much for a franchise, and rotate a few things out. Heck, we might see some more FE content like AT's beyond Lyn. But you get the idea. Cause at this point, with how long it's taking to even get an announcement, it's pointless to have a weak update with only a tiny few things to get anybody willing to buy a third version, so lots of new content is the way to go. That said, an all new game would do just as well. It honestly depends what their plans are.

Either way, development time should guarantee lots of content from the games you mentioned anyway, although maybe not extreme enough to rotate out most of the older content, but that partially depends upon if it's a port or not. With a port, you gotta keep most of the old content because that's something people are already used to. A new game doesn't have to worry as much about that.

 

[Deleted member]

Wasn't he near the top of multiple fan polls throughout Japan (and high here)?

That combined with the fact that Sakurai does take fan demand into account makes me think it played a large part.

The problem with fan polls is that they are not representative of what people want as characters. At best they target a very limited audience that is dedicated to speculation (who are often there for forum advocacy) that would be lucky to receive hundreds of votes and that's before taking into accounts bots, trolls, and fanboys that may use unscrupulous methods to boost a specific result. They are unreliable for data analysis for a character's popularity and we should dismiss them because the chances of Sakurai or Nintendo utilize fan polls to help decide characters are zero.

Even if Nintendo need to gauge fan demand, why would they go on Internet forums to do so? Shifting through hours of pages of forum users bickering over cuts, K. Rool vs. Dixie Kong, new Pokémon characters and the crazy gallon bucket of e-drama is such an incredible waste of time that it would be better use of time to stack Hotwheel cars. That why Nintendo conducted polls each game since Melee, to use that data for helping to decide characters next game. That's why Mega Man showed up last game, because he ended up being the second highest requested guest character in the Japanese Brawl poll that got Sonic in. But I've heard no such confirmation from Shulk's inclusion.

Stuff like this was what lead to most of us buying that either K. Rool or Inkling were guaranteed to be the ballot winner(s) and then being disappointed when that didn't happen, because we bought into the unreliable fan polls hoping that they would conform to our hopes for the final DLC characters. Unless Nintendo conducts a poll or a true random sample ballot occurs, we should never take the result of an Internet poll seriously. It's time to accept that either we need a random sample poll to gauge fan demand on realize we will never know who is popular enough to get in.

On another note, the Smash Ballot is also K. Rool's last hope for being playable without a recent appearance but it's only going to happen if:

- Nintendo goes back to the ballot to help decide characters
- K. Rool shows up in 2nd place right beneath Bayonetta
- Sakurai (or whoever directs the next Smash) has no reservation to adding him like what happened to Ridley when he noted technical problems to explain his exclusion

 

[Nonno Umby]

I think that Smash Switch wil not be a straight port, but neither a complete new game. Considering that Sakurai is working on a new project which looks to not be related to Smash, and that he didn't know what the Switch was before its reveal, a completely new Smash wouldn't came out until 2020/2021, which is WAAAAY too late into Switch's life cicle.

I think that it will be mostly based on Smash Wii U engine, but they will add a lot of esclusive content to it (characters, stages, modes, trophies...), including reworked moveset for Link and Mario in order to represents BotW and Odyssey and so on. Doing it this way would save a lot of development time that would be wasted on re-creatung an engine, and they can do this even without Sakurai.

 

[Deleted member]

I know Inkling is almost guaranteed for the next Smash sequel, but what will it's move set be? Maybe it can turn into a squid to recover and it's final smash can be one of those large paint attacks they do at Splatoon ( the tornado and blaster ), who knows. The Inklings have a lot of utility and potential in their moveset, so it would be nice to see them in Smash for Switch.

 

[Cosmic77]

I really doubt Sakurai is stretching the third part limit, I mean there is only five. I do not care if they stop making third parties but they should make more Nintendo characters than third party. Still, staying five is the limit is kind of too small. Eight would be the limit for third parties.

We have six third-party characters. Bayonetta 2 and 3 might be second-party games, but the IP is owned by Sega. Bayonetta still qualifies as third-party.

During the time of Brawl, Sakurai said that three third-party characters seemed like the most he should add to the roster. As of now, that number has doubled. There's no definitive number on how many third-parties can be on the roster, but I think many are starting to realize that the roster will seem over-saturated with guest characters if all six stay for Smash 5 and additional third-parties are added.

Wasn't he near the top of multiple fan polls throughout Japan (and high here)?

That combined with the fact that Sakurai does take fan demand into account makes me think it played a large part.

I don't think Shulk ever ranked high on polls overseas before the Gematsu leak. If high fan demand played a part in Shulk getting into Smash, Japan would likely be the only guilty party.

The problem with fan polls is that they are not representative of what people want as characters. At best they target a very limited audience that is dedicated to speculation (who are often there for forum advocacy) that would be lucky to receive hundreds of votes and that's before taking into accounts bots, trolls, and fanboys that may use unscrupulous methods to boost a specific result. They are unreliable for data analysis for a character's popularity and we should dismiss them because the chances of Sakurai or Nintendo utilize fan polls to help decide characters are zero.

Even if Nintendo need to gauge fan demand, why would they go on Internet forums to do so? Shifting through hours of pages of forum users bickering over cuts, K. Rool vs. Dixie Kong, new Pokémon characters and the crazy gallon bucket of e-drama is such an incredible waste of time that it would be better use of time to stack Hotwheel cars. That why Nintendo conducted polls each game since Melee, to use that data for helping to decide characters next game. That's why Mega Man showed up last game, because he ended up being the second highest requested guest character in the Japanese Brawl poll that got Sonic in. But I've heard no such confirmation from Shulk's inclusion.

Stuff like this was what lead to most of us buying that either K. Rool or Inkling were guaranteed to be the ballot winner(s) and then being disappointed when that didn't happen, because we bought into the unreliable fan polls hoping that they would conform to our hopes for the final DLC characters. Unless Nintendo conducts a poll or a true random sample ballot occurs, we should never take the result of an Internet poll seriously. It's time to accept that either we need a random sample poll to gauge fan demand on realize we will never know who is popular enough to get in.

On another note, the Smash Ballot is also K. Rool's last hope for being playable without a recent appearance but it's only going to happen if:

- Nintendo goes back to the ballot to help decide characters
- K. Rool shows up in 2nd place right beneath Bayonetta
- Sakurai (or whoever directs the next Smash) has no reservation to adding him like what happened to Ridley when he noted technical problems to explain his exclusion

Internet polls aren't entirely useless. While a single fan poll means practically nothing, putting dozens of them together should at least give us an idea of which characters are most popular, regardless of how limited the audience is. K. Rool, Inklings, and Banjo appeared frequently in polls, therefore people considered them to be likely ballot winners. Yes, Bayonetta came out on top, but that doesn't mean the polls were completely wrong in gauging the other votes. If K. Rool ranked high on the ballot (which must have been the case since K. Rool got a costume), then the polls were accurate in regards that he was one of the more popular choices. Unfortunately, we don't know which characters Sakurai considered to be valid, nor do we know how characters besides Bayonetta ranked on the ballot. Finding out how close to the results we really were seems all but impossible now.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Internet polls aren't entirely useless. While a single fan poll means practically nothing, putting dozens of them together should at least give us an idea of which characters are most popular, regardless of how limited the audience is. K. Rool, Inklings, and Banjo appeared frequently in polls, therefore people considered them to be likely ballot winners. Yes, Bayonetta came out on top, but that doesn't mean the polls were completely wrong in gauging the other votes. If K. Rool ranked high on the ballot (which must have been the case since K. Rool got a costume), then the polls were accurate in regards that he was one of the more popular choices. Unfortunately, we don't know which characters Sakurai considered to be valid, nor do we know how characters besides Bayonetta ranked on the ballot. Finding out how close to the results we really were seems all but impossible now.

It's possible some of the costumes that came up later(like K. Rool) were simply high ballot votes. Not sure what are easy examples, and didn't Inkling come as a costume far earlier anyway?

Lloyd Irving I think was a later costume, so that's another possibility. While Tales Of is niche in itself, Symphonia remained of the most popular(less so the second game), and being originally for the GameCube, became memorable to Nintendo fans.

It's too bad he didn't much elaborate on some of the costumes, though.