Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Zinith]

Hope my boi's DJ Armor is strong enough to tank Giga Bowser's fist

 

[Pyra]

To be fair, making fun of Smash players is a meme on r/Kappa.

It's a meme in most places.
Including in my own apartment.

I live alone, though, so...

 

[Guybrush20X6]

If they announce that at EVO, It's gonna be Artifact all over again.

I remember that. First time ever heard an entire crowd give a "are you freaking kidding me?" groan at once.

 

[Deleted member]

To be fair, making fun of Smash players is a meme on r/Kappa because Smash isn't a "real fighting game."

To be fair, we're talking about someone who "leaked" about Marvel VS. Capcom Infinite still being supported, Mother 3 and a free update for Street Fighter V with Necro, Q, C. Viper and Oro.

Vergeben is another Gematsu situation where it's just a bunch of lucky guesses. Marcus "Ice Climbers, Like I Said" Sellars is more credible than this guy, and yet he's alongside the rest of these respect-wanting petty losers.

Bit of a thinkpiece, gonna give his leaks a NOT GOOD/10.

 

[Deleted member]

To be fair, we're talking about someone who "leaked" about Marvel VS. Capcom Infinite still being supported, Mother 3 and a free update for Street Fighter V with Necro, Q, C. Viper and Oro.

Vergeben is another Gematsu situation where it's just a bunch of lucky guesses. Marcus "Ice Climbers, Like I Said" Sellars is more credible than this guy, and yet he's alongside the rest of these respect-wanting petty losers.

Bit of a thinkpiece, gonna give his leaks a NOT GOOD/10.

Oh I'm not defending him, I'm just saying that ****posting on r/Kappa doesn't necessarily mean he hates the Smash community, sense everyone does it there. He could be genuine there, but given the site, I can't be sure.

 

[Shroob]

To be fair, we're talking about someone who "leaked" about Marvel VS. Capcom Infinite still being supported, Mother 3 and a free update for Street Fighter V with Necro, Q, C. Viper and Oro.

Vergeben is another Gematsu situation where it's just a bunch of lucky guesses. Marcus "Ice Climbers, Like I Said" Sellars is more credible than this guy, and yet he's alongside the rest of these respect-wanting petty losers.

Bit of a thinkpiece, gonna give his leaks a NOT GOOD/10.

>Doubting Gematsu in 2018
:Big think:

 

[SuperSceptile15]

I still don't trust Vergeben or any other leakers. The fact that he didn't reveal the entirety of Smash E3 (no mentions of Daisy) shows that he's full of **** and that he's a lying, fake, attention-seeking hack.

 

[Zinith]

I think Vergeben gets talked about a lot because his "leaks" hit so many nerves as the pages upon pages of 7th Gen Pokemon discussion has proven. If he mentioned Boshi all of a sudden, I guarantee you the only posts about that leak would be "Oh.... I guess Zinith is happy. Moving on..."

 

[Questionmark222]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Kappa/comments/946ewp/this_possibly_pertains_to_evo_fighting_game_leaks/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Kappa/comments/946ewp/_/e3inu0x
He doesn't like the Smash babies. Don't know if this is the specific statement requested but this was the first to come to mind.

Thanks! Actually I never saw something of hat kind from Vergeben so I wasn't looking for any statement in particular.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I think Vergeben gets talked about a lot because his "leaks" hit so many nerves as the pages upon pages of 7th Gen Pokemon discussion has proven. If he mentioned Boshi all of a sudden, I guarantee you the only posts about that leak would be "Oh.... I guess Zinith is happy. Moving on..."

*sympathetic back pat*

 

[Deleted member]

>Doubting Gematsu in 2018
:Big think:

"Wii Fit Trainer nobody thought of" is a lie. There have been people who would've no doubt thought of her as a joke.
All the characters listed were guarantees and anyone could've guessed them.

And where's Chrom?
Where's Chorus Kids?
I thought we were supposed to get Shulk but we got Robin & Lucina during that slot?

And yet nothing came out of it as things then went silent.

 

[Shroob]

"Wii Fit Trainer nobody thought of" is a lie. There have been people who would've no doubt thought of her as a joke.
All the characters listed were guarantees and anyone could've guessed them.

And where's Chrom?
Where's Chorus Kids?
I thought we were supposed to get Shulk but we got Robin & Lucina during that slot?

And yet nothing came out of it as things then went silent.

And yet if you look at the project plan for Smash 4, both Chrom and Chorus Kids were indeed planned to be in the game.

The Gematsu leaker had a copy of the project plan, the only thing you can dock him on was Robin and Lucina being shown over Shulk, and truth be told, neither of those characters were on the project plan.

We actually have proof that the characters he said WERE going to be in the game. To ding his credibility because "Yeah, well this character didn't come out on this date" is foolish.

 

[Opossum]

"Wii Fit Trainer nobody thought of" is a lie. There have been people who would've no doubt thought of her as a joke.
All the characters listed were guarantees and anyone could've guessed them.

And where's Chrom?
Where's Chorus Kids?
I thought we were supposed to get Shulk but we got Robin & Lucina during that slot?

And yet nothing came out of it as things then went silent.

Gematsu was clearly based on outdated info. Chrom got planned far enough to have a moveset made for him, and unused data on the Wii U version contained a series symbol for Rhythm Heaven among the playable series.

Having Greninja as "Pokémon from X and Y" only further solidifies this, as Sakurai outright said he saved a spot for a new Pokémon before deciding on Greninja.

 

[Pyra]

Every character is chorus kids if you and your friends only fight along with the rhythm of the stage music.

 

[Deleted member]

Every character is chorus kids if you and your friends only fight along with the rhythm of the stage music.

Chorus Kids were in Brawl. Just take Ness or Lucas to the greatest stage in the game:

 

[Roberk]

Alright, crazy prediction time. I predict that before December 7th, Nintendo will announce and release a Smash bros. mobile game. If i'm wrong, oh well i'll go eat a sandwich with mayonnaise or something.

Spoiler: Why I predict this

Nintendo's goal for mobile games has consistantly been theses 3 points.

1. Maximize the Number of People Who Have Access to Nintendo IP
2. Smart-Device Business Profitable on Its Own
3. Synergy with Dedicated Video Game System Business

The Smash series can easily check all three points. Smash Bros. would be an incredibly easy way for Nintendo to allow the mobile market to have access to all of their big name IPs at one time. A free to play app that has Mario and Pikachu's face plastered on the front is going to get a lot of people playing it and buying in game purchases. I could easily see linking your MyNintendo account giving you rewards inside the mobile game and possibly with Ultimate as well. Nintendo has sown a large mobile following, Smash Bros. could be where Nintendo can reap the casual popularity of mobile IPs and promote the switch though cross promotion and synergy between a mobile game and a dedicated console game.

The last Nintendo mobile game released was Animal Crossing: pocket camp, nearly a year ago in October 2017. There's been a large gap in the mobile release calendar for Nintendo, especially since their goal was to release 2 to 3 mobile games per year. There is another mobile game coming out in 2018 but it seems to be mainly focused for Japan. Having the Smash bros. mobile game release some time in October 2018 seems like a good fit, while the core audience was already sold by the E3 reveal, releasing a high profile App could really generate hype among the casual crowd as smash will still be fresh on their minds when Ultimate releases.

Spoiler: What a Mobile Smash game might look like

This portion is going to be just speculation. If we do get a Smash mobile game, I highly doubt that it will try to mimic the game play of the core series since the controls don't seem to transfer well to touch screen and would end up being a poor man's smash game. They'll most likely focus on the character aspect more. Nintendo has stated that they want their mobile games to be polished and unique, not just lazy ports.

The Nintendo mobile games do take inspiration from other successful mobile genres. Super Mario run is reminiscent of the endless runner genre while Pocket camp seems to take some inspiration from the social network genre games. A genre I could see them adapting smash into is something with collectibles, such as a virtual card game like hearthstone or a collectible RPG like Star Wars: Galaxy of heroes. Maybe have the collectibles be trophies and bring back that whole "world of fighting trophies" thing from subspace. I imagine you start with Original 8, and have to earn all the other characters over time. Maybe even have a cross platform promotion where all the characters youve unlocked on mobile will be automatically unlocked in Ultimate if you link your MyNintendo account.

Nah.

Nintendo Mobile games keep the core gameplay of the franchise.

Mario Run: While yes it's an automatic like an endless runner, it's level based like Mario and it's a platformer: Mario's genre.
Pocket Camp: Don't know too much about Animal Crossing, but time cycles, interacting with townsfolk, and collecting stuff sounds about right to me.
Fire Emblem Heroes: While a Gacha that's as casual as FE gets, it keeps the core SRPG gameplay and FE mechanics.

All of the Mobile games have "twists" that make them reminiscent of other mobile games, but in the end, they try their hardest to emulate the fundamental gameplay of their respective franchises. Nintendo Mobile games are meant to "ease" the casual mobile market into respective franchises, so if they don't play at least somewhat like the core games (for Smash, a platform fighter), why bother?


Also, Mario Kart Tour is intended to release by March 2019. There's not exactly a drought of new mobile games releasing if Dragalia Lost is supposed to be released this year and if MKT "can" be released this year.

 

[wildvine47]

"Wii Fit Trainer nobody thought of" is a lie. There have been people who would've no doubt thought of her as a joke.
All the characters listed were guarantees and anyone could've guessed them.

And where's Chrom?
Where's Chorus Kids?
I thought we were supposed to get Shulk but we got Robin & Lucina during that slot?

And yet nothing came out of it as things then went silent.

The only joke here is that you think anyone could have "guessed" Wii Fit Trainer. This website never even considered her once pre-Smash 4, and we've talked about characters like Tinstar and Urban Champion.

Chrom was confirmed to have been in development by Sakurai himself, only getting canned and replaced by Robin later.

Rhythm Heaven has an unused series icon in the files that's categorized with other series that have playable characters.

I'll give you Shulk, but that's likely the only point at which he overstepped his bounds and took a shot in the dark. Otherwise, it's very clear Gematsu had access to an early version of the project plan back when Chrom and the Chorus Kids were still on it.

 

[Deleted member]

Gematsu was clearly based on outdated info. Chrom got planned far enough to have a moveset made for him, and unused data on the Wii U version contained a series symbol for Rhythm Heaven among the playable series.

Having Greninja as "Pokémon from X and Y" only further solidifies this, as Sakurai outright said he saved a spot for a new Pokémon before deciding on Greninja.

A "Pokemon from X and Y" doesn't solidify anything, we ALL expect a Pokemon from the newest gen during the time of each Smash. I could just say "Pokemon from Diamond and Pearl" since those were the newest Pokemon games during Brawl at the time, and sure enough, boom Lucario, I'm right. If you're gonna leak, go all out, don't hold anything back.

And as for Chrom and Chorus Kids, while they did get planned, what matters most is the final version of the game. Which leads me to ask, how come Romano didn't come out and mention the removal of Chrom and Rhythm Heaven only being a part of music and such?

We actually have proof that the characters he said WERE going to be in the game. To ding his credibility because "Yeah, well this character didn't come out on this date" is foolish.

Romano was severely confident about this and it was supposed to line up with every character being listed. Mega Man, Wii Fit and Villager on E3, etc. Pretty much the entire false leak was laid out like a timeline, and that one slot where we got Robin and Lucina only confirmed this entire list was nothing more than just lucky guesses anyone can make.

 

[Shroob]

A "Pokemon from X and Y" doesn't solidify anything, we ALL expect a Pokemon from the newest gen during the time of each Smash. I could just say "Pokemon from Diamond and Pearl" since those were the newest Pokemon games during Brawl at the time, and sure enough, boom Lucario, I'm right. If you're gonna leak, go all out, don't hold anything back.

And as for Chrom and Chorus Kids, while they did get planned, what matters most is the final version of the game. Which leads me to ask, how come Romano didn't come out and mention the removal of Chrom and Rhythm Heaven only being a part of music and such?



Romano was severely confident about this and it was supposed to line up with every character being listed. Mega Man, Wii Fit and Villager on E3, etc. Pretty much the entire false leak was laid out like a timeline, and that one slot where we got Robin and Lucina only confirmed this entire list was nothing more than just lucky guesses anyone can make.

Imagine being this much in denial.


The fact that you acknowledge the fact that "Yeah, they got planned, but that means NOTHING!" is

Yes, he just happened to get a whole bunch of info, including content that got cut in development right. Sure bud, sure.

 

[Opossum]

A "Pokemon from X and Y" doesn't solidify anything, we ALL expect a Pokemon from the newest gen during the time of each Smash. I could just say "Pokemon from Diamond and Pearl" since those were the newest Pokemon games during Brawl at the time, and sure enough, boom Lucario, I'm right. If you're gonna leak, go all out, don't hold anything back.

And as for Chrom and Chorus Kids, while they did get planned, what matters most is the final version of the game. Which leads me to ask, how come Romano didn't come out and mention the removal of Chrom and Rhythm Heaven only being a part of music and such?



Romano was severely confident about this and it was supposed to line up with every character being listed. Mega Man, Wii Fit and Villager on E3, etc. Pretty much the entire false leak was laid out like a timeline, and that one slot where we got Robin and Lucina only confirmed this entire list was nothing more than just lucky guesses anyone can make.

I'm not sure what's so hard to understand about it.

You can't leak what you don't have. What Sal Romano leaked wasn't the final version of the game. The fact that Sal claimed there was a placeholder X and Y Pokémon and then Sakurai came out and said that Greninja started out as a placeholder slot matches perfectly.


You can't leak the final version of the roster if you only have the preliminary list. Leakers very rarely have all the information early on, and thinking otherwise is incredibly naive.

 

[Deleted member]

Imagine being this much in denial.


The fact that you acknowledge the fact that "Yeah, they got planned, but that means NOTHING!" is

Yes, he just happened to get a whole bunch of info, including content that got cut in development right. Sure bud, sure.

I'm not being in denial, I'm just being honest with how I feel about all of this. I never said that, either, I just wished that whole list wasn't outdated info going into it.

 

[Shroob]

I'm not being in denial, I'm just being honest with how I feel about all of this. I never said that, either, I just wished that whole list wasn't outdated info going into it.

Your argument is "Well, why didn't he know x, y or z"

If the list of information he got was from a very early stage of development(Which both Chrom and Chorus Men have ample evidence of being worked on), then that kinda explains why.


Game development isn't a straight arrow, look at Brawl for instance.

Sonic was going to be in, then wasn't allowed to by Sega, then was allowed to so they delayed the game to put him in. He was 'originally' going to be in, production stopped, and then started again.


Look at the new Pokemon artbook that came out recently that details a whole bunch of cut generation1 pokemon, or the spaceworld Gen2 demos.

A LOT of things can change from early to the final build of a game.

 

[Misery Brick]

A "Pokemon from X and Y" doesn't solidify anything, we ALL expect a Pokemon from the newest gen during the time of each Smash. I could just say "Pokemon from Diamond and Pearl" since those were the newest Pokemon games during Brawl at the time, and sure enough, boom Lucario, I'm right. If you're gonna leak, go all out, don't hold anything back.

And as for Chrom and Chorus Kids, while they did get planned, what matters most is the final version of the game. Which leads me to ask, how come Romano didn't come out and mention the removal of Chrom and Rhythm Heaven only being a part of music and such?



Romano was severely confident about this and it was supposed to line up with every character being listed. Mega Man, Wii Fit and Villager on E3, etc. Pretty much the entire false leak was laid out like a timeline, and that one slot where we got Robin and Lucina only confirmed this entire list was nothing more than just lucky guesses anyone can make.

Here's the thing, very few people even considered an X and Y Pokemon during speculation. Hell, many people were predicting that Zoroark or some other BW Pokemon would be in the game. And they were wrong, as the only representation. Even Greninja only had like 10 supporters in the character support thread here on Smashboards, because everyone was confident in Gen 5.
Not to mention it was specifically a placeholder, even Sakurai decided on Greninja before he knew his name.
As for Chrom and the Chorus Kids, despite them being in when the game came out or not, there is substantial evidence that they were being worked on as an inclusion apart of the project plan. Both from Sakurai's own words and content found in the game itself.
Content was still going to be in the game, and was practically confirmed through findings and interviews. Just because it didn't make the final build of the game or revealed at a certain point, doesn't make it any less credible than it is.

 

[Deleted member]

As controversial as Verg is, he did get some stuff right.


I am hoping his Gen 7 Pokemon leak is wrong, as I want Decidueye. :V

 

[Garteam]

I was under the impression that both Chrom AND Robin were on the project plan. We know Chrom was obviously shelved, but is there any information that confirms Robin was not a playable character until then?

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

Yeah back pedaling and saying Gematsu was 'so obvious, he just had lucky guesses' is so ignorant to me, there's so much to show he had some legitimacy

 

[Wyoming]

Gematsu was a project plan leak. It wasn't conclusive but it had the newcomers Sakurai and his team were interested in.

Then, for whatever reason, the source was no longer involved with the project and missed out on characters like Bowser Jr., Duck Hunt, Robin, Dark Pit, and Lucina. We know that Junior and the two clones were late additions thanks to Sakurai interviews so those are possible. Robin and Duck Hunt are the unknown pieces but the source must have gotten fired/canned/lost contact with a staff member when Chrom was replaced/scrapped and Duck Hunt was added. Considering the duo were the last character revealed for Smash, it is possible.

We'll never know why Rhythm Heaven was never added. It could have been hardware limitations of the 3DS or a concept that didn't translate well from thought process to actual development.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

A "Pokemon from X and Y" doesn't solidify anything, we ALL expect a Pokemon from the newest gen during the time of each Smash. I could just say "Pokemon from Diamond and Pearl" since those were the newest Pokemon games during Brawl at the time, and sure enough, boom Lucario, I'm right. If you're gonna leak, go all out, don't hold anything bac

Oh for the love of...

Sakurai said that Greninja was picked before he even got a name and only a design.

"Pokemon from X and Y" was the only name it could have gotten.

And as for Chrom and Chorus Kids, while they did get planned, what matters most is the final version of the game. Which leads me to ask, how come Romano didn't come out and mention the removal of Chrom and Rhythm Heaven only being a part of music and such?

Because he only had the plans? He's not constantly getting a stream of info. How do you think leaks happen?

and that one slot where we got Robin and Lucina only confirmed this entire list was nothing more than just lucky guesses anyone can make.

The mental gymnastics you have are insane.


I'll borrow Golden's list

"A substantial portion"
Ok, let's play a counting game.
What was claimed that was right:
1. "Animal Crossing Guy" (Villager)
2. Mega Man
3. Wii Fit Trainer
4. Little Mac
5. Mii Fighters
6. Pac-Man
7. Palutena
8. "Pokémon from X/Y" (Greninja)
9. Shulk
10. Only one of Ness and Lucas is coming back (Ness stayed, Lucas was axed)

What was claimed that was wrong:
1. Chrom (Robin got in instead; evidence that Chrom was planned exists, however)
2. Chorus Kids (evidence that a Rhythm Heaven character was planned exists, however)
3. "Enjoy my good buddy Shulk" (Robin was revealed instead; Shulk revealed in the next trailer though)

Now count each. Which is more substantial?

Now to mention he got the exact name of "Mii Fighters."

That's not one Wii Fit Trainer level of impossible guesses. THAT'S TWO!!!

You think one man got this lucky?

Even most of the things he got wrong have ties to development that prove it was at one time right.

Let's be honest dude, the only reason you don't think Gematsu is real, is because you don't like the idea of leaks. You've made that perfectly clear in the past. I'm going to say it plainly.

You are biased.

 

[lordvaati]

Early design script leaks happen all the time.

I remember back in early 2011-2012 or so a early Smash 4 concept script was out describing a system similar to TWEWY's clothing and Pin system.
That very likely was the Equipment/Custom move system of now.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Not that the Gematsu leak didn't have legitimate info, but the only thing that was confirmed in the case of Chrom was that he was considered. It was never confirmed that he was part of the project plan.

And before anyone comes in with the argument that Sakurai thought up a move set for Chrom, keep in mind that thinking up a moveset for Sakurai is something that is easy, as shown by his comment on Greninja. We don't know one way or another whether he was planned or not. We do know a Rhythm Heaven character was planned thanks to data mined info.

 

[Pyra]

This is an intense conversation. Let's talk about what kind of coffee Ridley would like instead.

 

[Deleted member]

Your argument is "Well, why didn't he know x, y or z"

If the list of information he got was from a very early stage of development(Which both Chrom and Chorus Men have ample evidence of being worked on), then that kinda explains why.


Game development isn't a straight arrow, look at Brawl for instance.

Sonic was going to be in, then wasn't allowed to by Sega, then was allowed to so they delayed the game to put him in. He was 'originally' going to be in, production stopped, and then started again.


Look at the new Pokemon artbook that came out recently that details a whole bunch of cut generation1 pokemon, or the spaceworld Gen2 demos.

A LOT of things can change from early to the final build of a game.

IIRC, back then with all the recent updates he gave such as Pac-Man, Palutena, Miis, it just made it sound like he knew how the entire project plan would be laid out, from announcement dates to other things. That's where a lot of my criticisms came from.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

This is an intense conversation. Let's talk about what kind of coffee Ridley would like instead.

He takes it with cream and sugar, and Pichu takes it black.

 

[Zinith]

This is an intense conversation. Let's talk about what kind of coffee Ridley would like instead.

Ridley hates Seattlites for some reason, so he doesn't drink coffee...

Edit: Just made an unintentional pun. Goddammit!!!

 

[Pyra]

He takes it with cream and sugar, and Pichu takes it black.

I feel like Ridley mostly only likes to drink lattes with little hearts on them.

 

[Deleted member]

As controversial as Verg is, he did get some stuff right.


I am hoping his Gen 7 Pokemon leak is wrong, as I want Decidueye. :V

If one million people make a guess, at least one of them will be close to the truth.

 

[BluePikmin11]

After looking into research for possible Pokémon candidates that have been brought up here since Vergeben’s leak like Incineroar and Buzzwole (promotion-wise, moveset distinction-wise, movie-wise, marketing-wise, anime-wise), I could not find anything notable aspects about these Pokémon that would lead to Sakurai to choosing one of them as the Pokémon newcomer to make a worthy analysis. I am truly stumped tbh.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Kind of don't care what Pokemon ends up being chosen. Didn't want Greninja for SSB4 but ended up loving what they did for the character. Smash 4 was loaded with characters for me that I didn't even want but I loved how they turned out like Wii Fit and Bowser Jr. Whatever they choose, it'll probably be cool.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

After looking into research for possible Pokémon candidates that have been brought up here since Vergeben’s leak like Incineroar and Buzzwole (promotion-wise, moveset distinction-wise, movie-wise, marketing-wise, anime-wise), I could not find anything notable aspects about these Pokémon that would lead to Sakurai to choosing one of them as the Pokémon newcomer to make a worthy analysis. I am truly stumped tbh.

Incineroar was in a movie.

That was most likely planned for ages.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

After looking into research for possible Pokémon candidates that have been brought up here since Vergeben’s leak like Incineroar and Buzzwole (promotion-wise, moveset distinction-wise, movie-wise, marketing-wise, anime-wise), I could not find anything notable aspects about these Pokémon that would lead to Sakurai to choosing one of them as the Pokémon newcomer to make a worthy analysis. I am truly stumped tbh.

Have you considered Rowlet or Tapu Koko? I feel like those could also be really likely too.