Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[cothero]

I'll be very upset if Zeraora is the Pokémon Verge is talking about. I don't want that thing in the game!

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Ok but what if

They’re revealing the veterans that will make cameos in upcoming newcomer trailers first?? It’s not that likely to be true, but I just wanna dream

 

[Door Key Pig]

Oh my Verge said something about a Pokemon?

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Lemme check real quick

We’ve had the following revealed (in no particular order):

And for the newcomers already seen:

Soooooo that leaves uhhhh
ultpikachu:

Am I forgetting anybody?

Nope, that's everyone

if nothing else, at least we know we have 40 more vets to go.

 

[dezeray112]

Oh my Verge said something about a Pokemon?

Yes he did.

He claimed that there is a playable seventh generation Pokemon, but it is not Decidueye, Lycanroc or Mimikyu.

EDIT: Here is the source by the way:

The GameFAQs post has been deleted, likely by moderators like his Isabelle one was, but he also said it on Reddit.

 

[Darkraid]

If its not Decidueye, I want Rowlet

 

[Questionmark222]

Just copypasting one of my recent posts from Nintenzone Social.

I'm of the standpoint that the character list from Gematsu was the original newcomer roster for Sm4sh. I mean, there's evidence for both a Rhythm Heaven rep (in the game's code, we just don't know who it was) and Chrom being planned at first before getting ditched in Robin's favor (keep in mind that Robin wasn't mentioned by Gematsu). The only elephant in the room to me is Rosalina, who was planned from the start (http://sourcegaming.info/2015/07/04/english-smash4-project-proposal-slides/).

As for Bowser Jr. and Duck Hunt, they're secret characters, so I guess it makes sense that Gematsu didn't mention them. And Lucina and Dark Pit, as we all know, were free-dessert characters added mid-development.

I'm starting to think that we'll end up with a similar scenario this time around with Vergeben, assuming that this theory is true. It could turn out that this was the very first proposal for Ultimate (the one from December 2015) and that the Gen 7 Pokemon (similar the the Gen 6 Pokémon) hadn't been decided upon yet.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

The bigger issue in the case of XC2 was that XCX was the most recent game around the time the roster was being conceptualized, so if we're getting a Xenoblade character, it's going to be Elma due to recency.

That is another issue for Xenoblade 2, why take the big gamble on Rex/Pyra when the game could bomb and they're very unpopular, while the perfectly usable Elma is right there?

The one thing that Verge predicted that I'm most skeptical with isn't even a character, and I feel like a lot of people are forgetting about it.

The Mincecraft stage.

I don't know when we'll get more info on stages, but that was a bold "out-there" prediction. I'm still listening to what he says about Smash specifically since he (technically) hasn't been wrong yet, but seeing whether or not he got that Minecraft thing right would be a huge hit to my trust in his credibility.

Didn’t he say just “Minecraft representation” in general though, not specifying what exactly? Could even be an assist trophy, but I doubt we’re getting a playable Steve.

I wouldn’t mind a stage, if it means getting some awesome tunes with it

His claim is that there's Minecraft representation that isn't necessarily a playable character, and would be a stage or assist trophy. Yeah it has been lost in the shuffle when it's a very important piece of information, both because if it's correct it would be his WFT to his Smash credibility and with its implications if Vergeben is right; if Vergeben is legitimate, it implies a Microsoft character that isn't Steve is in, so either Banjo Kazooie or Master Chief (because why license stuff from a competing company just for a stage or AT).

 

[Door Key Pig]

Yes he did.

He claimed that there is a playable seventh generation Pokemon, but it is not Decidueye, Lycanroc or Mimikyu.

EDIT: Here is the source by the way:

So he's now stating it's Isabelle, Simon, and a 7th gen that are in?

 

[Taco Cruise]

Just want to point out every thread that linked to the Necrozma leak from a few weeks ago was wiped away on 4chan, something interesting

 

[John Dylan Smith]

That is another issue for Xenoblade 2, why take the big gamble on Rex/Pyra when the game could bomb and they're very unpopular, while the perfectly usable Elma is right there?




His claim is that there's Minecraft representation that isn't necessarily a playable character, and would be a stage or assist trophy. Yeah it has been lost in the shuffle when it's a very important piece of information, both because if it's correct it would be his WFT to his Smash credibility and with its implications if Vergeben is right; if Vergeben is legitimate, it implies a Microsoft character that isn't Steve is in, so either Banjo Kazooie or Master Chief (because why license stuff from a competitor just for a stage or AT).

I think it's more than likely that Banjo/Kazooie or another RareWare character who had an appearance on a Nintendo (Conker's Bad Fur Day, Killer Instinct, Or Battletoads) is a guarantee for Smash Bros as opposed to Masterchief (Who's games never once made an Appearance on a single Nintendo console and who had no demand to be included in Smash Bros prior to Ultimate)!

 

[Pakky]

Maxwell is, alongside Frogger, one of my favorite "never gonna happen" third party picks. Super Scribblenauts was my jam.

Also do you take requests?

Yes yes, I do.

 

[Opossum]

Yes yes, I do.

Neato. Any chance of doing one for Celica?

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

He was referring to his placement on the panoramic Smash banner.

He didn’t actually say there was a controversial character, he said he couldn’t verify the source.

That's still definitely in smash though, that sounds like him backtracking if anything

 

[---]

Lemme check real quick

We’ve had the following revealed (in no particular order):

And for the newcomers already seen:

Soooooo that leaves uhhhh
ultpikachu:

Am I forgetting anybody?

Granted the website is kind of messed up in terms of organization (Ex. Falco, Kongo Falls, MM4 Medley, etc.) but that's everyone thus far.

I kind of like that they're going seemingly at random. I'm having a lot fun re-organizing my amiibo figures for each new character post. It gives me something to look forward to even if we're not getting completely new info.

 

[Enchess]

That's still definitely in smash though, that sounds like him backtracking if anything

How much you wanna bet he was piggybacking on the many people saying Metroid Prime 4 was getting a big reveal and just assumed Ridley would be in that?

 

[Nonno Umby]

Granted the website is kind of messed up in terms of organization (Ex. Falco, Kongo Falls, MM4 Medley, etc.) but that's everyone thus far.

I kind of like that they're going seemingly at random. I'm having a lot fun re-organizing my amiibo figures for each new character post. It gives me something to look forward to even if we're not getting completely new info.

That's actually a neat idea, I should do that too with my amiibo collection!

 

[SvartWolf]

How much you wanna bet he was piggybacking on the many people saying Metroid Prime 4 was getting a big reveal and just assumed Ridley would be in that?

that still doesn't explain how he knew Snake was in, icies was in (albeit ice climbers is the kind of character that can be guessed) DIDN'T Knew Wolf was in, and assumed no cuts since bayo, ryu, cloud, mewtwo and corrin were all in.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Just copypasting one of my recent posts from Nintenzone Social.

I'm of the standpoint that the character list from Gematsu was the original newcomer roster for Sm4sh. I mean, there's evidence for both a Rhythm Heaven rep (in the game's code, we just don't know who it was) and Chrom being planned at first before getting ditched in Robin's favor (keep in mind that Robin wasn't mentioned by Gematsu). The only elephant in the room to me is Rosalina, who was planned from the start (http://sourcegaming.info/2015/07/04/english-smash4-project-proposal-slides/).

As for Bowser Jr. and Duck Hunt, they're secret characters, so I guess it makes sense that Gematsu didn't mention them. And Lucina and Dark Pit, as we all know, were free-dessert characters added mid-development.

I'm starting to think that we'll end up with a similar scenario this time around with Vergeben, assuming that this theory is true. It could turn out that this was the very first proposal for Ultimate (the one from December 2015) and that the Gen 7 Pokemon (similar the the Gen 6 Pokémon) hadn't been decided upon yet.

It's probable that Rosalina was just revealed before Gematsu leaked her; the second part of the Gematsu leaks that leaked the later half of its newcomers came in after her reveal.

As for Vergeben's gen 7 pokemon, assuming he isn't making stuff up, he has something to it beyond "Pokemon from Sun/Moon", as he's able to disconfirm pokemon it isn't and is simply withholding who specifically as he awaits more verification since the source isn't fully verifiable yet (see Opossum's earlier post and here is the post he was referring to, so it's not quite comparable).

 

[John Dylan Smith]

It's probable that Rosalina was just revealed before Gematsu leaked her; the second part of the Gematsu leaks that leaked the later half of its newcomers came in after her reveal.

As for Vergeben's gen 7 pokemon, assuming he isn't making stuff up, he has something to it beyond "Pokemon from Sun/Moon", as he's able to disconfirm pokemon it isn't and is simply withholding who specifically as he awaits more verification since the source isn't fully verifiable yet (see Opossum's earlier post and here is the post he was referring to, so it's not quite comparable).

I think there's a possibility that Verbagen could still be wrong about this! Just like how he was wrong about The Star Fox Racing game!

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I think there's a possibility that Verbagen could still be wrong about this! Just like how he was wrong about The Star Fox Racing game!

>Star Fox Racing Game

I think that was a different leaker...? It was around the time of SDCC, and they only got a few things right (Pokémon Funko Pops and MK8D DLC). Their Smash predictions didn’t happen, and neither did their predictions of a Star Fox racing game, or ports of Fallout 76 and Final Fantasy VII Remake for the Switch.

 

[DarkSt0rm009]

I updated my little guide thing...

Red = Disconfirmed (I know Lycanroc, Decidueye, and Mimikyu aren't official)
Orange = Very unlikely
Yellow = Better odds
Uncolored = Our most likely options imo. (I updated to include more)

What's the thoughts this time?

Seeing Mimikyu possibly deconfirmed does hurt my soul a bit, but the potential of a playable Marshadow does have me intrigued

 

[Questionmark222]

>Star Fox Racing Game

I think that was a different leaker...? It was around the time of SDCC, and they only got a few things right (Pokémon Funko Pops and MK8D DLC). Their Smash predictions didn’t happen, and neither did their predictions of a Star Fox racing game, or ports of Fallout 76 and Final Fantasy VII Remake for the Switch.

Didn't the Star Fox Racing rumor pop up a couple weeks before E3?

 

[Pakky]

Spoiler: Deathborn

Shout out to ????????????? for the video mentioning this guy years ago in one of his lists.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

I think it's more than likely that Banjo/Kazooie or another RareWare character who had an appearance on a Nintendo (Conker's Bad Fur Day, Killer Instinct, Or Battletoads) is a guarantee for Smash Bros as opposed to Masterchief (Who's games never once made an Appearance on a single Nintendo console and who had no demand to be included in Smash Bros prior to Ultimate)!

Just like how the Black Mage, Terra Brandford, or any other FF character that isn't Cloud was going to make it in to Smash as FF7 never been on a Nintendo console and he had no demand prior to Smash 4, regardless of Cloud's much greater general popularity and being the face of Final Fantasy?

Banjo Kazooie certainly has the fan demand and I think they could certainly make it in, but they and their series have been in pretty dire straits post-2000, so I don't think it's infeasible Sakurai would instead go with the face of Microsoft and its most popular/iconic character by far if he isn't going with Steve for a Microsoft character.

 

[Enchess]

that still doesn't explain how he knew Snake was in, icies was in (albeit ice climbers is the kind of character that can be guessed) DIDN'T Knew Wolf was in, and assumed no cuts since bayo, ryu, cloud, mewtwo and corrin were all in.

I've said it repeatedly, Snake was the only prediction he's gotten right that other people weren't making. No cuts and ICs were very common predictions. Not guessing Wolf doesn't make him seem any more credible since no one else was saying Wolf (that I know of).

So faced with Snake, Simon, and Minecraft as his only claims that couldn't be piggybacking, Snake alone isn't enough to convince me of his credibility.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Didn't the Star Fox Racing rumor pop up a couple weeks before E3?

I didn’t start visiting this site faithfully again till after E3 so I have no idea

 

[Pakky]

Neato. Any chance of doing one for Celica?

lanky_gunner beat me to it.

https://smashboards.com/threads/newcomer-stock-icons.455706/

 

[SvartWolf]

If microsoft rep is happening ( i doubt it though) be it Steve or Banjo Kazoiie, i really would love some rare AT's like Fulgore and the Battletoads (Both of them have soem kind of relevance now)

 

[Enchess]

Didn't the Star Fox Racing rumor pop up a couple weeks before E3?

It was Verg and it happened in May. Nothing's come of it yet despite E3, so while it's not a complete mark against his credibility until Retro's project is revealed, it does cast some doubt on him.

 

[John Dylan Smith]

Just like the Black Mage, Terra Brandford, or any other FF character that isn't Cloud was going to make it in to Smash as FF7 never been on a Nintendo console and he had no demand prior to Smash 4, regardless of Cloud's much greater general popularity and being the face of Final Fantasy?

Banjo Kazooie certainly has the fan demand and I think they could certainly make it in, but they and their series have been in pretty dire straits post-2000, so I don't think it's infeasible Sakurai would instead go with the face of Microsoft and its most popular/iconic character by far if he isn't going with Steve.

Well Cloud did have one appearance on a Nintendo console before his announcement in Super Smash Bros (Kingdom Hearts Chain Of Memories On The Nintendo Gameboy Advance)! So he did qualify in sense!

Also! I can't begin to imagine all the internet drama, outrage/riots, and flame wars that would happen if Master Cheif were to be included in Smash Bros Ultimate (As well him being chosen as the Microsoft character rep over Banjo And Kazooie or any RareWare character that was on a Nintendo console)!

Also! If Microsoft wants Master Cheif to be in Smash Bros as a character! Then why don't they just do what Sony did and make their own Smash Bros fighter game (I'm extremely sure there has been a high demand for such a Xbox fighting crossover game to be made)!

 

[Rie Sonomura]

It was Verg and it happened in May. Nothing's come of it yet despite E3, so while it's not a complete mark against his credibility until Retro's project is revealed, it does cast some doubt on him.

May I see the leak in question?

 

[Mc.Rad]

Spoiler: Deathborn

Shout out to ????????????? for the video mentioning this guy years ago in one of his lists.

YO MY BOI FINALLY GETS HIS FIRST STOCK ICON FANART

 

[Enchess]

Well Cloud did have one appearance on a Nintendo console before his announcement in Super Smash Bros (Kingdom Hearts Chain Of Memories On The Nintendo Gameboy Advance)! So he did qualify in sense!

Also! I can't begin to imagine all the internet drama, outrage/riots, and flame wars that would happen if Master Cheif were to be included in Smash Bros Ultimate (As well him being chosen as the Microsoft character rep over Banjo And Kazooie or any RareWare character that was on a Nintendo console!

Don't forget Coded and Theatrhythm. Also, was he in FF Tactics on Nintendo systems?

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

that still doesn't explain how he knew Snake was in, icies was in (albeit ice climbers is the kind of character that can be guessed) DIDN'T Knew Wolf was in, and assumed no cuts since bayo, ryu, cloud, mewtwo and corrin were all in.

Snake isn't the wildest guess, he's a veteran after all, if Simon gets announced I'll be inclined to believe him but as it stands right now this whole thing sounds like guesses and bandwagoning.

 

[Pakky]

YO MY BOI FINALLY GETS HIS FIRST STOCK ICON FANART

Thank you I do my best.

 

[BlueMagician]

Don't forget Coded and Theatrhythm. Also, was he in FF Tactics on Nintendo systems?

No, neither of the FFTA games had a guest Cloud like the original.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

I've said it repeatedly, Snake was the only prediction he's gotten right that other people weren't making. No cuts and ICs were very common predictions. Not guessing Wolf doesn't make him seem any more credible since no one else was saying Wolf (that I know of).

So faced with Snake, Simon, and Minecraft as his only claims that couldn't be piggybacking, Snake alone isn't enough to convince me of his credibility.

I seen more people claiming no cuts was a pipe dream and that cuts just had to happen, and talk of who would get cut was extremely prevalent. There were people who certainly thought there would be no cuts, I myself did, but it is straightup revisionism to claim that it was the very common "safe" belief, especially before Vergeben and Emily Rogers made their statement about the lack of cuts, and after their statements I argued several times that no cuts could happen with people dismissing Vergeben because they adamantly claimed it was "unrealistic".

As I said in an earlier post, avoid falling into the trap of dismissing anything a supposed leaker gets right as being "safe and obvious" like people kept doing with every non-WFT character Gematsu got right, especially when the amount of people predicting it was certainly less than 50%.

 

[Enchess]

May I see the leak in question?

I need to backtrack a little. I googled the leak and read 3 articles and all credited him, but his own post acknowledged someone else leaked it first. So really if this is false it wouldn't just be a hit to his credibility, it would suggest he's bandwagoned before.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starfox/comments/8icu31/since_the_fox_is_already_out_of_its_hole_thanks/

 

[Mc.Rad]

Also I think I do have a sort of interesting thing that I don't think people have talked about here concerning Loz18.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76703142

They apparently said on this thread that Wavedashing is still a thing in Smash Ultimate and that there may be a story mode... They are certain that there is a tournament bracket as well.

I dunno if we should take this with a grain of salt, but Loz18 is the only person who's seems to be having the best credibility when it comes to leakers. Even though Vergeben is the more popular of the two (and the less accurate as well)