Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Shroob]

Lycanroc is Ash's Greninja this season. Not Incenaroar.

Ash usually has 1-2 starters of a region that he fully evolves, while 1 he doesn't, like Charizard in Generation 1, or Greninja in Gen 6.

Considering Rowlet is not going to evolve, Incenaroar fits that bill.

 

[AlphaSSB]

I honestly feel that Vergeben got lucky with the Ridley and Snake prediction, and no cuts wasn't too hard of a guess. It feels like, at this point, he's is just trying to keep this up as long as possible.

I don't take what this person says seriously. Sure, he has gotten some things right thus far, and has gotten some things right about other games in the past, but he's also gotten a lot wrong.

I do not think Decidueye, Lycanroc, or Mimikyu are by any means deconfirmed. Nor am I assuming that Incineroar is confirmed. It's too early to tell, especially when it comes from a somewhat spotty source.

 

[Shroob]

I honestly feel that Vergeben got lucky with the Ridley and Snake prediction, and no cuts wasn't too hard of a guess. It feels like, at this point, he's is just trying to keep this up as long as possible.

I don't take what this person says seriously. Sure, he has gotten some things right thus far, and has gotten some things right about other games in the past, but he's also gotten a lot wrong.

I do not think Decidueye, Lycanroc, or Mimikyu are by any means deconfirmed. Nor am I assuming that Incineroar is confirmed. It's too early to tell, especially when it comes from a somewhat spotty source.

Of course, but I'd rather discuss this than.... well nothing at all, which is effectively what we've been doing for awhile since the PotD started up.


4chan leaks are all most likely fake, so even if Verge is fake, he's at least got a slight bit of credibility in the here and now, meaning there actually feels like weight in discussing whatever he says instead of just the run of the mill 4chan leak that pops up whenever.

 

[Polan]

man vergeben is literally leaking everything i don't want in the game lol. first isabelle, the most boring newcomer choice, and then crushing all hopes of decidueye and lycanroc, which are the only two pokemon i wanted in. and we may be getting my least favorite pokemon starter, just because of the bloody anime. i still think he's legit but man i'm really being tested here.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I've legit reached the point that I think either Verge is being told lies by people or he's just been lucky about Smash (with Snake and Ridley), but lying the entire time.

He's angered a lot of people so I'm wagering their are people just feeding him false info and since he comes across as particular 15 minutes of fame hungry and trying to extend it to like 45 minutes at this point. He's most likely gullible and stupid enough to buy it.

 

[NintenRob]

Ash usually has 1-2 starters of a region that he fully evolves, while 1 he doesn't, like Charizard in Generation 1, or Greninja in Gen 6.

Considering Rowlet is not going to evolve, Incenaroar fits that bill.

He's only ever had one region where he's had two starters fully evolved and that was Sinnoh with Torterra and Infernape

Gen 2 had his Chikorita evolve once and that was it until they randomly let Cyndaquil evolve once in Sinnoh too

Gen 3 had Sceptile as his only starter. By your logic he was the Greninja of his generation and he's not in Smash

Gen 4 again had two, but even then it did focus to a specific one you could consider the "Greninja/Charizard" but it's also not in Smash

Gen 5 didn't have anything, Tepig evolved once and that was it.


There's no rule one of Ash's starter Pokemon has to fully evolve. That concept art people like to talk about also had Popplio yet Ash doesn't have one and Lana is no where to be seen.

Lycanroc is still his most prominent Pokemon on his team outside of Pikachu. But even then, from I've seen it still doesn't match the height Greninja had with its prominence.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I've legit reached the point that I think either Verge is being told lies by people or he's just been lucky about Smash (with Snake and Ridley), but lying the entire time.

He's angered a lot of people so I'm wagering their are people just feeding him false info and since he comes across as particular 15 minutes of fame hungry and trying to extend it to like 45 minutes at this point. He's most likely gullible and stupid enough to buy it.

I lean towards lying and a lucky a little more though because he claimed his source about Ridley and Snake saw E3 materials, and thus knew of Ridley's presence elsewhere in the show (something that was ultimately false and he course corrected to say they meant the artwork for Smash? Wut.), but he failed to get all veterans returning or Daisy's announcement with this apparent source that saw E3 materials.

I just don't trust the man and the way he's handling his so called information, if there ever was really any information about Smash to begin with.

 

[Shroob]

He's only ever had one region where he's had two starters fully evolved and that was Sinnoh with Torterra and Infernape

Gen 2 had his Chikorita evolve once and that was it until they randomly let Cyndaquil evolve once in Sinnoh too

Gen 3 had Sceptile as his only starter. By your logic he was the Greninja of his generation and he's not in Smash

Gen 4 again had two, but even then it did focus to a specific one you could consider the "Greninja/Charizard" but it's also not in Smash

Gen 5 didn't have anything, Tepig evolved once and that was it.


There's no rule one of Ash's starter Pokemon has to fully evolve. That concept art people like to talk about also had Popplio yet Ash doesn't have one and Lana is no where to be seen.

Lycanroc is still his most prominent Pokemon on his team outside of Pikachu. But even then, from I've seen it still doesn't match the height Greninja had with its prominence.

Greninja wasn't also in the anime until AFTER Smash came out IIRC, so by the time Greninja was in the anime, Smash had already given it a healthy exposure iirc.

And let's be honest, the damn thing's a Torracat already, and Sun and Moon have a good chunk of time left to air. It's safer to air on the side of "It's going to evolve" than not at this point. I know you don't like the design, but you're coming off a tiny bit biased.

 

[AlphaSSB]

Of course, but I'd rather discuss this than.... well nothing at all, which is effectively what we've been doing for awhile since the PotD started up.


4chan leaks are all most likely fake, so even if Verge is fake, he's at least got a slight bit of credibility in the here and now, meaning there actually feels like weight in discussing whatever he says instead of just the run of the mill 4chan leak that pops up whenever.

There's nothing wrong with entertaining the idea for the sake of discussion, but I feel that some give Vergeben too much credibility in general. Or are too eager to support what he says because he said something that they want to happen.

 

[Pyra]

*wakes up*
*sees Vergeybergey gen 7 pokemon discussion still going strong*

I'm telling you, it's Alolan Oak.
He knows Capoeira.

 

[NintenRob]

Greninja wasn't also in the anime until AFTER Smash came out IIRC, so by the time Greninja was in the anime, Smash had already given it a healthy exposure iirc.

And let's be honest, the damn thing's a Torracat already, and Sun and Moon have a good chunk of time left to air. It's safer to air on the side of "It's going to evolve" than not at this point. I know you don't like the design, but you're coming off a tiny bit biased.

It definitely could evolve, but that won't it the "Greninja" of Ash's team. Being a fully evolved starter =/= Most prominent team member.

And that's if does evolve. While I know things amped up a fair bit the Lusamine story, it has so far been a very casual season (although I haven't seen much past the wedding). So I could see it sticking with Torracat like how Unova didn't evolve many Pokemon. But if it does, he has a LOT of strong competition for spotlight
Ash has

-Pikachu duh, but it's getting even more special attention thanks to its unique Z-move that to my knowledge is still a mystery (10000 volt thunderbolt)

-Rowlet. The most popular Gen 7 Pokemon by a country mile. Just because it's not evolving doesn't mean it won't get special attention. In Unova, Oshawott was probably ash's most stand out starter despite Tepid evolving

-Lycanroc. This thing got it's own form unique to Ash in the anime. Ash is the only trainer with a Lycanroc like this, it even has own sort of rage mode similar to Infernape.

-A god damn Ultra Beast!


Basically, I don't think the Anime is much evidence for Incenaroar getting in Smash.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

*wakes up*
*sees Vergeybergey gen 7 pokemon discussion still going strong*

I'm telling you, it's Alolan Oak.
He knows Capoeira.

Capoeira is forever ruined for me now because of Bob's Burgers.

''I thought you were doing it wrong, but that's just what it looks like."

 

[L9999]

Here is something that is true about Pokemon in Smash. It is a mess and it will always be because it is a series that doesn't have any consistency in cast and has too many options. All the flaming you go over Decidueye, Incineroar, Mimikyu and Lycanroc will be for nothing a few years from now, GF will just push you to the next fad because money is important. A lot expected Lucario to be cut in Smash 4 because "he was old news." It is all for that rep seat in the nonexistent senate, not for being a unique fighter in the long run.

 

[NintenRob]

Capoeira is forever ruined for me now because of Bob's Burgers.

''I thought you were doing it wrong, but that's just what it looks like."

Is this an actual thing?

 

[Curious Villager]

Inb4 Naganadel is our Pokemon Smash Ultimate newcomer.
Sakurai: "So ya'll love purple space dragons so much huh? Here have two for the price of one!"

 

[Cosmic77]

Wednesday: "Verge didn't say anything about the third character being controversial. It's fake."
Today: "Verge is saying neither Decidueye, Mimikyu, or Lycanroc is the new Pokemon!? OMG this is terrible!! This Pokemon must be so controversial!!"

So, I was right about that third character being controversial after all, huh?

Anyway, take a deep breath and relax, people. Seems like a lot of people with inside info are less confident in this character than they are with Simon and Isabelle. Gematsu wasn't right with Chrom, and Verge could easily be wrong with the Alolan trio. And if it's true, then oh well. Not the end of the world. I haven't seen this Pokemon in action yet, so for all I know, I could end up getting something way cooler than I expected.

It definitely could evolve, but that won't it the "Greninja" of Ash's team. Being a fully evolved starter =/= Most prominent team member.

And that's if does evolve. While I know things amped up a fair bit the Lusamine story, it has so far been a very casual season (although I haven't seen much past the wedding). So I could see it sticking with Torracat like how Unova didn't evolve many Pokemon. But if it does, he has a LOT of strong competition for spotlight
Ash has

-Pikachu duh, but it's getting even more special attention thanks to its unique Z-move that to my knowledge is still a mystery (10000 volt thunderbolt)

-Rowlet. The most popular Gen 7 Pokemon by a country mile. Just because it's not evolving doesn't mean it won't get special attention. In Unova, Oshawott was probably ash's most stand out starter despite Tepid evolving

-Lycanroc. This thing got it's own form unique to Ash in the anime. Ash is the only trainer with a Lycanroc like this, it even has own sort of rage mode similar to Infernape.

-A god damn Ultra Beast!


Basically, I don't think the Anime is much evidence for Incenaroar getting in Smash.

Nah, the anime is definitely a huge part of why Incineroar would've been chosen. Based off its concept art, the writers had planned on Incineroar being one of Ash's eventual Pokemon long before the Su/Mo games were even released. This is supported by the amount of characters development Litten got compared to other Pokemon in the show.

Just like with Greninja, if Game Freak had an idea which Pokemon would evolve in the anime and take center spotlight, then they probably would've been suggested to Sakurai.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Is this an actual thing?

Capoeira? Yeah. It's a legit form of fighting, but it's nothing like that joke is trying to portray it as.

It really is a mix of martial arts and dancing however.

Eddy and Christie from Tekken are fighters based on the fighting style for example.

I think maybe Lucky Chloe would count as well, but she's a little less Capoeira and more acrobatics?

Edit: Oh, and Elena from Street Fighter. Forgot about her.

 

[Pyra]

Is this an actual thing?

It's a dance/martial art, but I don't think you can genuinely use this to fight someone else trained in a different fighting style unless you're in a video game. Haha. It's kind of a "show" more than anything else, if I remember correctly.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I just realized, doesn't this disprove that any character post-December 2015 is immediately disqualified?? Sun and Moon released in 2016.

Edit: I realize we all predicted Pokemon would be involved due to Greninja, but just thought I should point it out.

You know people can discuss a potential leak and its credibility without fully believing in it? Everyone wasn't "believing" the Funko Pop leak when talking about it and its likelihood, I seen no one believing it was actually real, you can drop the snide attitude.



Pokemon is the explicit exception; Sakurai reserved a slot in his initial planned roster for an undecided gen 6 pokemon for Smash 4 and later chose it before the pokemon was even revealed to the public, and Sakurai would say later on this that it was an exception just for Pokemon. As such, a gen 7 pokemon is on the table (and Sun/Moon is six months closer to the project plan than X/Y was to Smash 4's, leaving it fully eligible), the only thing that the project plan's date means for Pokemon is that if a gen 7 pokemon is chosen, it won't be based off of popularity or other things that happened past it (such as Decidueye being in Pokken DX).

Indeed, a Gen 7 Pokemon getting in changes absolutely nothing in regards to speculation.

Roy isn't the same situation, Roy was a last-minute clone when Sakurai needed some clone candidates for Melee's roster. And the problem isn't that Sakurai couldn't know of such characters' existence, it's that:

1: The character doesn't exist to the public, so there exists absolutely no known demand for the character.
2: It's a big gamble on how well the character will be received, Sakurai can't foresee if Arms will end up a multi-million seller or another Code Name: S.T.E.A.M, nor can he foresee if Xenoblade 2 will become the most popular entry in the series or become the franchise killer.

Pokemon is the exception because a Pokemon game is going to be a nigh-guaranteed massive hit, the series will always be relevant, and due to the nature of the series there's hundreds of Smash-viable characters while there lacks centralized Smash support for any because of just how many options there are, so he can go with any pokemon TPC plans to market and do well while getting another unique fun character onto the roster.

The bigger issue in the case of XC2 was that XCX was the most recent game around the time the roster was being conceptualized, so if we're getting a Xenoblade character, it's going to be Elma due to recency.

Sakurai has stated Shulk was quite a popular pick in Japan

Really? Do you have a source for where Sakurai made this statement?

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Let's not forget that it was still Sakurai who chose Greninja, Game Freak didn't force it upon him even if its eventual huge role in the anime was likely planned in advance. If the process is as simple as Game Freak laying out a number of notable options to Sakurai then Incineroar's eventual appearance in the anime won't give it any more special privileges than Lycanroc or Mimikyu, who in this discussion we assume were passed over.

That's not to say Incineroar isn't a big contender, it is regardless of what Vergeben says, but I don't think it's quite as simple as "This Pokémon is in the anime, so it'll be playable in Smash". If Sakurai sees more potential in someone like Tapu Koko, Golisopod, Nihilego or Buzzwole, who would all have clear reasons to make it in hindsight, or even someone that might slip my mind, then he'll just pick any one of them instead.

 

[Deleted member]

Really? Do you have a source for where Sakurai made this statement?

I did some digging (because people just seem to say stuff about Japan all the time, and I have no idea how much of it was true) and could only find this:

https://sourcegaming.info/2017/05/31/character-selection-smash-for/

"Sakurai himself said the character was highly requested – especially in Japan."

Still nothing. We're back to square one. I'm going to keep digging and see if I can find a Famitsu interview or something straight from the man himself.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I did some digging (because people just seem to say stuff about Japan all the time, and I have no idea how much of it was true) and could only find this:

https://sourcegaming.info/2017/05/31/character-selection-smash-for/

"Sakurai himself said the character was highly requested – especially in Japan."

Still nothing. We're back to square one. I'm going to keep digging and see if I can find a Famitsu interview or something straight from the man himself.

I feel like it's another example of "Sakurai Didn't Say That".

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Who know what direction they'll go for new Pokemon.

A final Starter form like last time. (Decidueye/Inenaroar/Primarina)
The cool Pokemon that's in the advertising like they did in Brawl (Lycanroc)
That Generation's Pikachu like Melee (Mimikyu)

Or another random Gen 1 Pokemon (Gengar)

 

[Deleted member]

I feel like it's another example of "Sakurai Didn't Say That".

It could very well be. He's probably talked about Shulk at some point, and if there's nothing about being requested in Japan there, then it's likely false.

EDIT: If he's talked about Shulk at all, it hasn't been translated.

 

[Pyra]

Don't believe everything you read on the internet.
-Masahiro Sakurai, 1867

 

[Krysco]

Part of what I read last night was talk about Geno. 300+ pages back and as a bit of a timeframe for those who may remember, there was comparisons between R.O.B.'s iconicness and Geno's.

Anyways, that talk of Geno got me thinking. I personally don't care for Geno at all having not played SMRPG though I have watched a few LPs of the game but if he does make it into Smash, what will he sound like? Geno does talk in SMRPG but it's entirely through text. This wouldn't be the first time Smash has provided first time voices for a character but it's still interesting to think about. And thinking of this got me thinking of other characters in a similar situation. If Galacta Knight ever miraculously got in, what would he sound like or would he have a voice at all? Kirby and Meta Knight have shown that Star Warriors can talk but GK has never been shown to do so. What about Isabelle? Technically the Villager can 'talk' through input by the player and yet they remian silent in Smash. Would Isabelle be silent too? Would she speak in Animalese (those gibberish sounds characters make when talking in Animal Crossing)? Would she have a proper voice? I'll specifically tag Zinith to ask the same thing about Boshi if he were to get in. He's a Yoshi so would he just share Yoshi's voice clips? Would he have slightly altered ones? Would he say Boshi instead of Yoshi? Heck, I don't entirely recall but doesn't Boshi talk in SMRPG? Would he have a proper voice? Same questions in regards to if Ninten (not directed specifically at you Zinith) makes it in, especially seeing as how Ness and Lucas were given voices.

There's a bunch of other characters that I honestly don't know if they've had a voice actor before like Isaac, Simon Belmont, Rayman, the Chorus Kids, Mach Rider and probably a bunch of other characters that I'm currently forgetting.

Another thing of interest is how some characters like the aforementioned Villager and also Olimar CAN talk in the games they come from and yet don't talk in Smash. In Olimar's case, most of what is seen said by him is in his enemy and treasure logs and also his end of day reports (which could be chalked up to him writing rather than talking) but he says his name when you switch to him in Pikmin 2 and the Hocotate President has some crazy language that's subtitled in the beginning of Pikmin 2.

Anyways, anything interesting going on? I know EVO is or was going on though I work this entire weekend so even if I cared to watch it, I wouldn't be able to.

 

[Murlough]

View attachment 155622


If anything, this is the biggest piece of supporting evidence Incenaroar has going for it.

This was leaked LONG before Sun and Moon came out, before we even knew the final evolutions, and you can clearly see Ash there.


Incenaroar was planned to be Ash's Greninja in the anime long, long before the games even came out, and considering Ash has a Torracat right now, he's almost there.

I was watching everything SuMo relayed after the games reveal and, no, this was not leaked "LONG" before they the final evolutions were officially revealed.

Timewise? Sure, but if they are doing reveal trailers for the game coming out in a few months......then they were done with the game!

All the mons in SuMo were completed when this was leaked outside of possibly Dusk Form Lycanroc, the Necrozma's, a few UBs, and Zereora.

This picture doesn't mean anything for Incineroar, basically. If Verg is right then I'd say Tapu Koko or Incineroar are shoo-ins, though.

 

[Zinith]

Part of what I read last night was talk about Geno. 300+ pages back and as a bit of a timeframe for those who may remember, there was comparisons between R.O.B.'s iconicness and Geno's.

Anyways, that talk of Geno got me thinking. I personally don't care for Geno at all having not played SMRPG though I have watched a few LPs of the game but if he does make it into Smash, what will he sound like? Geno does talk in SMRPG but it's entirely through text. This wouldn't be the first time Smash has provided first time voices for a character but it's still interesting to think about. And thinking of this got me thinking of other characters in a similar situation. If Galacta Knight ever miraculously got in, what would he sound like or would he have a voice at all? Kirby and Meta Knight have shown that Star Warriors can talk but GK has never been shown to do so. What about Isabelle? Technically the Villager can 'talk' through input by the player and yet they remian silent in Smash. Would Isabelle be silent too? Would she speak in Animalese (those gibberish sounds characters make when talking in Animal Crossing)? Would she have a proper voice? I'll specifically tag Zinith to ask the same thing about Boshi if he were to get in. He's a Yoshi so would he just share Yoshi's voice clips? Would he have slightly altered ones? Would he say Boshi instead of Yoshi? Heck, I don't entirely recall but doesn't Boshi talk in SMRPG? Would he have a proper voice? Same questions in regards to if Ninten (not directed specifically at you Zinith) makes it in, especially seeing as how Ness and Lucas were given voices.

There's a bunch of other characters that I honestly don't know if they've had a voice actor before like Isaac, Simon Belmont, Rayman, the Chorus Kids, Mach Rider and probably a bunch of other characters that I'm currently forgetting.

Another thing of interest is how some characters like the aforementioned Villager and also Olimar CAN talk in the games they come from and yet don't talk in Smash. In Olimar's case, most of what is seen said by him is in his enemy and treasure logs and also his end of day reports (which could be chalked up to him writing rather than talking) but he says his name when you switch to him in Pikmin 2 and the Hocotate President has some crazy language that's subtitled in the beginning of Pikmin 2.

Anyways, anything interesting going on? I know EVO is or was going on though I work this entire weekend so even if I cared to watch it, I wouldn't be able to.

That's a good question. In regards to Boshi I always imagined Kazumi Totaka would record new voice clips to sound more nasty and menacing and would be pitched lower similar to Birdo. Think of Wario but with Yoshi sounds. I don't think he'd actually say full words, not even his own name.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Is this an actual thing?

Capoeira?
Yes, it was a real martial arts form, but is more used for dancing, and shows.
Now, if the history of the art itself is to be believed, it was learnt by slaves, who wanted to protect themselves, so, they hid it as a form of dance, so that their owners would not get suspicious, and they would learn to practice it, until it was useful. It's very interesting!

 

[Cosmic77]

Anyways, anything interesting going on? I know EVO is or was going on though I work this entire weekend so even if I cared to watch it, I wouldn't be able to.

Last night, Vergeben claimed that the new Gen 7 Pokemon in Smash isn't Decideye, Mimikyu, or Lycanroc.

 

[Krysco]

Last night, Vergeben claimed that the new Gen 7 Pokemon in Smash isn't Decideye, Mimikyu, or Lycanroc.

Verge being the fellow who claimed Simon Belmont will be in the game if I'm not mistaken? And while I'm a good 2 weeks behind, he hasn't been proven to be lying yet on that matter, correct?

While those 3 Pokemon are popular among these boards, I still see potential others that seem to get overlooked like Incineroar, Primarina or whatever the final water form is called or even Rowlet, the actual popular grass form~ Or who knows, maybe we're getting a living sand castle as a playable character.

 

[Murlough]

Everyone sleeping on Bruxish I'm tellin' ya.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

Last night, Vergeben claimed that the new Gen 7 Pokemon in Smash isn't Decideye, Mimikyu, or Lycanroc.

I'm fairly certain he just disconfirmed Decidueye and not the other two, do you have a source on that?

 

[dezeray112]

Hmm....that's odd. The post Vergeben made in regards to Mimikyu and Lycanroc not being the Gen 7 Pokemon comment on GameFAQs is gone.

 

[Green_Pikmin*]

Don't believe everything you read on the internet.
-Masahiro Sakurai, 1867

Ahhh I see what ya did there...

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I'm fairly certain he just disconfirmed Decidueye and not the other two, do you have a source on that?

The GameFAQs post has been deleted, likely by moderators like his Isabelle one was, but he also said it on Reddit.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Hmm....that's odd. The post Vergeben made in regards to Mimikyu and Lycanroc not being the Gen 7 Pokemon comment on GameFAQs is gone.

Well that's a bummer because I missed that and was about to go looking for it...
Edit: NVM it's on Reddit...

This is proof you only put faith in leaks you want to happen. I rode the Vergeben train all the way to E3 for my boy Ridley, I was a ride or die. NOW he tell'n me Decideueye AND Mimikyu aren't the Gen 7 rep. Well he better be lying for the attention.

It's just human nature, someone tells me something I don't want I'm going to hope it's not true, and vice versa.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

The GameFAQs post has been deleted, likely by moderators like his Isabelle one was, but he also said it on Reddit.

OHk then I didn't know that part, yeah it's gotta be Incenaroar then. Either that, or Tapu Koko, Golisopod, or maybe even an ultra beast

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It's going to be Pyukumuku and you're all going to like it

 

[Deleted member]

It's going to be Pyukumuku and you're all going to like it

Plot twist: it's a Pokemon Trainer type character with Pyukumuku, Bruxish, and Drampa.