Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Noventiaa]

The whole "getting burnt out" thing is why i'm hoping for a character reveal a month, one or two months having one more.

 

[JayJay55]

There are a lot of things that never happened in Smash until 4, so "it's never happened before" really can't be evidence that something will never happen.

Since the assists/Pokéballs are just a list of characters (and the Pokémon even has 'chance' as a field since Mew/Jirachi/etc are set at 1/700 chance, it's easy enough to make a patch and set the chance of that one appearing to 0. Then they'll never show up for a summon again.

It would seem it's a waste of dev time to make an assist and then drop it like that, but it's not something that's physically impossible, especially if the demand is there.

I don't really care one way or another about Waluigi, but the one thing I've learned about Smash is "never say never."

They don’t even have to drop the assist entirely at that, just set the rate of it’s appearance to 0 when the playable version of a character is in action, then if said character isn’t chosen as playable for a particular match then it goes back to its regular spawn rate as an Assist Trophy. PokéBall Pokémon don’t necessarily have to follow this, as there are many Pokémon.

 

[Noventiaa]

They don’t even have to drop the assist entirely at that, just set it’s appearance to 0 when the playable version of a character is in action, then if said character isn’t chosen as playable then it goes back to its regular spawn rate as an Assist Trophy.

Waluigi opening a Waluigi assist trophy is the most Waluigi thing i can think of, though.

 

[MainJPW]

One of my favorites from back in the day was "Isaac from Golden Sun is named Robin in Japan, therefore he can't be added since we already have a Robin."

Completely ignoring the fact that Robin is Reflet in Japan.

What lame made up excuses will people come up with next...

 

[Deleted member]

It saddens me when people say that "Oh there are too much Third Parties this is supposed to be a UH Nintendo only fighting game with a few of those iconic guys."

I think Smash Bros. is mostly Nintendo, but gaming as a whole. I do not care if they add more third parties. Like getting one or two third parties before DLC would be neat.

So complaining about how there are "too much third parties" is just plain wrong.

 

[Deleted member]

It saddens me when people say that "Oh there are too much Third Parties this is supposed to be a UH Nintendo only fighting game. Just three third parties is good!"

I think Smash Bros. Is yes mostly Nintendo, but just gaming as a whole. Like I do not care if they add more third parties. Like getting one or two third parties before DLC would be neat.

So complaining about how there are "too much third parties" is just plain wrong.

Ya i think it would be cool if Nintendo reached a deal with Microsoft and Sony so pretty much every video game character ever could be on the table

 

[osby]

What lame made up excuses will people come up with next...

"You can't put King K.Rool, we already have King Dedede! "

 

[Superstar Saga]

Still have my fingers crossed for Sora to make it in.

 

[Deleted member]

What lame made up excuses will people come up with next...

as long as it keeps Isaac out of the game

 

[Deleted member]

What lame made up excuses will people come up with next...

"Isabelle likes sharing and that is communist, and we can not have communism in our Nintendo's child games, so Isabelle can not be a fighter in Super Smash Bros."

I really hope no one makes that argument.

Isabelle would be cool for Smash.

 

[WaddleKing]

One of my favorites from back in the day was "Isaac from Golden Sun is named Robin in Japan, therefore he can't be added since we already have a Robin."

Completely ignoring the fact that Robin is Reflet in Japan.



While I do agree you should never rule anything out, I don't think Pokken's case fits the Smash mold, particularly because in-game/lore-wise, there are numerous members of a species.

At the very least for Assist Trophies of one-of-kind/individual characters, there has never been an incident where a major role (not just a minor NPC/cinematic appearance) where a character can appear simultaneously in multiple different roles more than stage/final smash cameos. We don't know how much Sakurai values "canon" by any means, but the lengths they've gone to in specific instances (Alfonzo: "Leave it to me!") just for things that would be only a little bit confusing makes me think they probably wouldn't break the "rule" without good reason.

Again, not ruling anything out as I would love to see another Croagunk situation, but until we see proof that they'd do that, not holding my breath for even some of my most wanted to get "upgraded."

I mostly just used Pokken as an example as it was a simple one to showcase due to also being from a Nintendo fighter (And it was the best example I could come up with). Though I would say the Croagunk still looks identical even if they are a different character, which can make it slightly confusing on the battlefield, which is more the issue I see in it: They look identical, as an Assist role would to the default costume of the playable role. As dittos/multiple of the same characters fighting at once is still a thing in Smash.

I can see the logic, though I would say the same applies to vice versa, it's never been stated it's impossible as just because something has yet to be done does not mean it cannot be done. Though I doubt myself honestly that most if not any of the assist roles do actually get upgraded during DLC for a few reasons, and my most wanted character is currently in an assist role.

As for the Alfonzo situation, I remember that announcement but then I heard Toon Link can appear on the stage either way even when Toon Link or Link are on it, so I never exactly understood how that one worked. I'd appreciate if someone could clarify this one for me.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Ya i think it would be cool if Nintendo reached a deal with Microsoft and Sony so pretty much every video game character ever could be on the table

If Sony won’t do crossplay with Nintendo and Microsoft, there’s no way they’d ever allow their characters to be in Smash (plus they can continue their Smash ripoff instead)

 

[Curious Villager]

I mostly just used Pokken as an example as it was a simple one to showcase due to also being from a Nintendo fighter (And it was the best example I could come up with). Though I would say the Croagunk still looks identical even if they are a different character, which can make it slightly confusing on the battlefield, which is more the issue I see in it: They look identical, as an Assist role would to the default costume of the playable role. As dittos/multiple of the same characters fighting at once is still a thing in Smash.

I can see the logic, though I would say the same applies to vice versa, it's never been stated it's impossible as just because something has yet to be done does not mean it cannot be done. Though I doubt myself honestly that most if not any of the assist roles do actually get upgraded during DLC for a few reasons, and my most wanted character is currently in an assist role.

As for the Alfonzo situation, I remember that announcement but then I heard Toon Link can appear on the stage either way even when Toon Link or Link are on it, so I never exactly understood how that one worked. I'd appreciate if someone could clarify this one for me.

Conductor Link gets replaced with Alfonzo if either Link or Toon Link are on that stage. Not necessarily just Toon Link.
This will most likely also go for Young Link too in Smash Ultimate as they have already shown him being replaced when BotW Link is there.

 

[Roberk]

Upgrading Waluigi is opening a Pandora's Box Y'all.

What about other Assist Trophies? Should they be upgraded? "Why does Sakurai hate [character/series]?"

Imagine the salt if Midna or Ghirahim weren't upgraded but Waluigi was, what a slap in the face to fans of those characters and Zelda fans in general. Redesigns are nice but it'd be a low blow that someone like Waluigi was prioritized over other fan picks like Midna/Ghirahim.

Imagine the salt if Lyn was upgraded, "another sword-user", "another FE character". You know they'd upgrade Lyn if Assist Trophies could be upgraded for DLC, her immense popularity was shown to IS and Nintendo in 2017 with CYL and she's been growing ever since. Heroes has made $400 million, it's obvious that it has influence and Lyn is free money at that point.

Imagine the salt if... I could go on and on. You may think we have hit some peak levels of irritation when it comes to playable characters but "all Assist Trophies are equal but some are more equal than others." is going to seriously harm the Smash fanbase.

 

[IsmaR]

Conductor Toon Link still appearing despite a Link/Toon Link being present was a bug, I believe.

Same with occasionally Dedede appearing on Dreamland 64's background despite someone actually using King Dedede.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Imagine the salt if Lyn was upgraded, "another sword-user", "another FE character". You know they'd upgrade Lyn if Assist Trophies could be upgraded for DLC, her immense popularity was shown to IS and Nintendo in 2017 with CYL and she's been growing ever since. Heroes has made $400 million, it's obvious that it has influence and Lyn is free money at that point.

They’d have to suck it up and **** off after getting Waluigi in Smash

 

[Idon]

as long as it keeps Isaac out of the game

Why do you want Isaac kept out of Smash?

 

[Cosmic77]

"Isabelle likes sharing and that is communist, and we can not have communism in our Nintendo's child games, so Isabelle can not be a fighter."

I really hope no one makes that argument.

Isabelle would be cool for Smash.

Willingly sharing your possessions with people who may or may not have more than you is not communism.

There have been a lot of dumb reasons made for why Isabelle shouldn't be a fighter, but saying that Isabelle represents communism is, simply put, completely and utterly stupid, and I seriously hope this never becomes a real rebuttal against her.

Upgrading Waluigi is opening a Pandora's Box Y'all.

What about other Assist Trophies? Should they be upgraded? "Why does Sakurai hate [character/series]?"

Imagine the salt if Midna or Ghirahim weren't upgraded but Waluigi was, what a slap in the face to fans of those characters and Zelda fans in general. Redesigns are nice but it'd be a low blow that someone like Waluigi was prioritized over other fan picks like Midna/Ghirahim.

Imagine the salt if Lyn was upgraded, "another sword-user", "another FE character". You know they'd upgrade Lyn if Assist Trophies could be upgraded for DLC, her immense popularity was shown to IS and Nintendo in 2017 with CYL and she's been growing ever since. Heroes has made $400 million, it's obvious that it has influence and Lyn is free money at that point.

Imagine the salt if... I could go on and on. You may think we have hit some peak levels of irritation when it comes to playable characters but "all Assist Trophies are equal but some are more equal than others." is going to seriously harm the Smash fanbase.

Based on Smash 4, I doubt people will make that connection. I don't remember seeing anyone complain that Little Mac got in over Isaac or Waluigi.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Upgrading Waluigi is opening a Pandora's Box Y'all.

What about other Assist Trophies? Should they be upgraded? "Why does Sakurai hate [character/series]?"

Imagine the salt if Midna or Ghirahim weren't upgraded but Waluigi was, what a slap in the face to fans of those characters and Zelda fans in general. Redesigns are nice but it'd be a low blow that someone like Waluigi was prioritized over other fan picks like Midna/Ghirahim.

Imagine the salt if Lyn was upgraded, "another sword-user", "another FE character". You know they'd upgrade Lyn if Assist Trophies could be upgraded for DLC, her immense popularity was shown to IS and Nintendo in 2017 with CYL and she's been growing ever since. Heroes has made $400 million, it's obvious that it has influence and Lyn is free money at that point.

Imagine the salt if... I could go on and on. You may think we have hit some peak levels of irritation when it comes to playable characters but "all Assist Trophies are equal but some are more equal than others." is going to seriously harm the Smash fanbase.

Did people react this way when Little Mac was revealed in Smash 4? I don't see how ATs becoming characters would "harm the Smash fanbase". It'd cause salt at worst.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Upgrading Waluigi is opening a Pandora's Box Y'all.

What about other Assist Trophies? Should they be upgraded? "Why does Sakurai hate [character/series]?"

Imagine the salt if Midna or Ghirahim weren't upgraded but Waluigi was, what a slap in the face to fans of those characters and Zelda fans in general. Redesigns are nice but it'd be a low blow that someone like Waluigi was prioritized over other fan picks like Midna/Ghirahim.

Imagine the salt if Lyn was upgraded, "another sword-user", "another FE character". You know they'd upgrade Lyn if Assist Trophies could be upgraded for DLC, her immense popularity was shown to IS and Nintendo in 2017 with CYL and she's been growing ever since. Heroes has made $400 million, it's obvious that it has influence and Lyn is free money at that point.

Imagine the salt if... I could go on and on. You may think we have hit some peak levels of irritation when it comes to playable characters but "all Assist Trophies are equal but some are more equal than others." is going to seriously harm the Smash fanbase.

What about Little Mac? Isn't he the poster boy for what you are saying?

True is, there will be always, and I mean ALWAYS, peoples not happy at all that over character got in. Even the popular character aren't safe due to the "don't expect too many character" thing.

So, if any AT would be upgraded into playable character, it would be more or less the same reception any no-AT newcomer would get. I don't see why this is a big problem.

 

[osby]

Did people react this way when Little Mac was revealed in Smash 4? I don't see how ATs becoming characters would "harm the Smash fanbase". It'd cause salt at worst.

It would cause people to treat Assist Trophies like a waiting list for playable fighters... even more then now.

 

[Deleted member]

They’d have to suck it up and **** off after getting Waluigi in Smash

Right, because the people complaining about Lyn would be the Waluigi fans because it's always the Waluigi fans being unfavorable ****tards, huh?

You make me sick.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

It would cause people to treat Assist Trophies like a waiting list for playable fighters... even more then now.

If that's the case then the damage has already been done.

 

[Noventiaa]

Yeah, no one is going to go "WALUIGI was made a character but not *assist trophy*!?" it's the same thing as clones "wasting character slots." it just isn't really a thing.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Did people react this way when Little Mac was revealed in Smash 4? I don't see how ATs becoming characters would "harm the Smash fanbase". It'd cause salt at worst.

Thing is, Little Mac was an AT in Brawl. He was upgraded to playable in the next game. Much like how Palutena was a cameo in Pit’s FS for Brawl and then playable for 4.

I think they were referring to making an AT playable by DLC in Ultimate, the likes of which has never been done before (and imo may be a bit more difficult than just setting the AT version of that character’s appearance rate to 0). If Waluigi becomes the first AT to be upgraded in such a manner, people will start clamoring for other ATs to become playable in that same manner, which...won’t be pretty.

It’s more likely a FS cameo in this game may be upgraded to playable provided they’re not also an AT/Victory screen cameo (and rn I think only Bass, Proto Man, Fiora or Kumatora could be candidates if they were for example patched out of their respective final smashes they belong to, which is also a stretch. Chrom’s status is currently unconfirmed, but if he’s the only character in Robin’s FS like last time and also a victory screen cameo, he may be out of luck again)

 

[osby]

If that's the case then the damage has already been done.

Well, at least people are treating ATs with more care now. I don't really want to return Smash For speculation days, where people assumed a quarter of the ATs will be playable now that we had Little Mac.

 

[SlickWylde]

This Waluigi upgrade talk is all hypothetical, I assume? I can't read 20 pages in 1 sitting. Or is this related to a leak?

 

[Deleted member]

Willingly sharing your possessions with people who may or may not have more than you is not communism.

There have been a lot of dumb reasons made for why Isabelle shouldn't be a fighter, but saying that Isabelle represents communism is, simply put, completely and utterly stupid, and I seriously hope this never becomes a real rebuttal against her.

Exactly.

Communism is more complicated than sharing.

Isabelle would be really nice to see in Smash. Pacifism and Communism should not be used against her as a reason for her not being in Smash Bros.

Right, because the people complaining about Lyn would be the Waluigi fans because it's always the Waluigi fans being unfavorable ****tards, huh?

You make me sick.

Ever since that one user on Twitter posted that, people have been viewing Waluigi fans as toxic.

 

[Michelaar]

Tbh, I feel like a lot of the AT's wouldn't really fit that much as full characters anyway? Might just be me.

 

[Pyra]

why September? wouldn't that leave you with a 2 month gap of absolutely nothing?

Man, if this was any other game this would sound pretty bad hahahaha

 

[Enchess]

It saddens me when people say that "Oh there are too much Third Parties this is supposed to be a UH Nintendo only fighting game with a few of those iconic guys."

I think Smash Bros. is mostly Nintendo, but gaming as a whole. I do not care if they add more third parties. Like getting one or two third parties before DLC would be neat.

So complaining about how there are "too much third parties" is just plain wrong.

Mild rant time. I think people wanting more third parties are entitled to that opinion and can express it, but am increasingly feeling like that feeling isn't returned.

Spoiler: Why it's not wrong to not want third parties

Let me reframe it. Imagine Nintendo had access to all gaming franchises from the get go and always viewed it as a general gaming crossover and not a Nintendo one. Here are some characters I doubt we'd have gotten:



That's hella depressing for me to think about. Niche games are always going to be ignored in favor of mainstream when all options are on the table. And yeah, all these characters are locked in now, but there are still quite a few characters people care about a lot that fall into this category of niche, so need the Nintendo focus to even have a chance. Like Isaac, Ashley, Bandana Dee, Saki, Elma, etc.

I know for a lot of people a cool third party is more exciting than all of those combined, but this space is the only chance those characters ever have in a big crossover fighter like this. Masterchief, Nathan Drake, Kratos, Kat, Snake, Simon Belmont, SubZero, Heihachi, and even Shovel Knight and Quote have all had their chances to shine in a crossover fighter. Others like Banjo will have a high chance of inclusion if their companies ever make a crossover fighter.

That's part of what's annoying to us "Nintendo purists". We have series we love where this is their one shot and the more third parties the less chance they'll ever see their chance. Isaac will never make it into a fighter other than Smash. Belmont has and could again.

Edit: my phone freaked out and made a really unfortunate autocorrect that said I don't think people are entitled to opinion instead of I do

 

[Idon]

Tbh, I feel like a lot of the AT's wouldn't really fit that much as full characters anyway? Might just be me.

Well to be fair, Little Mac does a grand total of THREE punches in his own game.

 

[Pyra]

Hot take:

It's okay to both want and not want things when it comes to something you're looking forward to.

Or typically anything in general to be honest

 

[praline]

as long as it keeps Isaac out of the game

Get out of here with that bad opinion.

 

[Nimbostratus]

Not sure I've ever posted on the General Thread, but hey, why not?

Upgrading Waluigi is opening a Pandora's Box Y'all.

What about other Assist Trophies? Should they be upgraded?

Sounds like good discussion, not a problem.

"Why does Sakurai hate [character/series]?"

An unfounded statement that is thrown around regardless of AT upgrading.

Imagine the salt if Midna or Ghirahim weren't upgraded but Waluigi was, what a slap in the face to fans of those characters and Zelda fans in general. Redesigns are nice but it'd be a low blow that someone like Waluigi was prioritized over other fan picks like Midna/Ghirahim

This... would still be the case if Assist Trophies didn't exist and Waluigi got in over Midna or Ghirahim. Ashley would be my first pick for AT upgrading (hopefully unnecessary and she gets in to begin with), but would I be unusually salty about Waluigi getting moved up instead? No, I'd just be glad to have confirmation that it is possible to make the move.

Imagine the salt if Lyn was upgraded, "another sword-user", "another FE character". You know they'd upgrade Lyn if Assist Trophies could be upgraded for DLC, her immense popularity was shown to IS and Nintendo in 2017 with CYL and she's been growing ever since. Heroes has made $400 million, it's obvious that it has influence and Lyn is free money at that point

Lyn is probably the most requested FE character by a decent margin. I don't see why the salt would be that immense, especially considering it would be a popularity-based DLC pick (not based on relevancy like Corrin).

Imagine the salt if... I could go on and on. You may think we have hit some peak levels of irritation when it comes to playable characters but "all Assist Trophies are equal but some are more equal than others." is going to seriously harm the Smash fanbase.

No one would argue that Knuckle Joe or Metroid is "equal" to Waluigi. This idea exists without even starting to upgrade ATs.

Ultimately, I just don't see how an AT getting upgraded over another AT as DLC is at all worse than completely unrepresented character getting in over another completely unrepresented character. Surely I'm not alone that I'd be glad to see the precedent made? (as DLC, not reactionarily moving up Waluigi before the game releases because the fans are loud. THAT would be a bad precedent)

The fact is that many highly requested characters are ATs, and seeing them excluded from DLC for being "just a little too close to making it in" doesn't sit right. I'd rather my favorites just not be in the game at all if that's the case.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Right, because the people complaining about Lyn would be the Waluigi fans because it's always the Waluigi fans being unfavorable ****tards, huh?

You make me sick.

I don’t remember calling Waluigi fans ****tards...like...not at all

I went with Waluigi due to him being the bigger focus of the list of deconfirmed characters for Ultimate (and for being more vocal than everyone else, making him take Ridley’s old spot in the process). You don’t currently see people getting as mad with a deconfirmed character with Lyn, No Chuckles Knuckles, or as you do Waluigi supporters atm. It’ll just be a pattern every time the top character is chosen to Smash (Ridley to Waluigi, there’ll always be (one of)the main top choice of a character who’ll have the most amount of rage from supporters in the deconfirmed character section. We could go from the world praising Waluigi joining Smash to having the same world rage over someone like Ashley, Geno, or K Rool not Smashing)

And if you’re sickened, you can either stay sick or take some Dr.Mario pills

 

[Rie Sonomura]

as long as it keeps Isaac out of the game

What did Isaac ever do to you?

 

[RileyXY1]

There's not really a lot of ATs that I can see joining the roster.

 

[Deleted member]

I don’t remember calling Waluigi fans ****tards...like...not at all

I went with Waluigi due to him being the bigger focus of the list of deconfirmed characters for Ultimate (and for being more vocal than everyone else, making him take Ridley’s old spot in the process). You don’t currently see people getting as mad with a deconfirmed character with Lyn, No Chuckles Knuckles, or as you do Waluigi supporters atm

And if you’re sickened, you can either stay sick or take some Dr.Mario pills

What is even the purpose of singling out Waluigi fans, then?
The hypothetical was that Waluigi was promoted first, and then Lyn was promoted and people have their complaints about her specifically that have to do with FE-related issues.
What does Waluigi have to do with the problems people have with Lyn to the point that we need to "suck it up and **** off" just because Waluigi got in?

 

[Deleted member]

Mild rant time. I think people wanting more third parties are entitled to that opinion and can express it, but am increasingly feeling like that feeling isn't returned.

Spoiler: Why it's not wrong to not want third parties

Let me reframe it. Imagine Nintendo had access to all gaming franchises from the get go and always viewed it as a general gaming crossover and not a Nintendo one. Here are some characters I doubt we'd have gotten:



That's hella depressing for me to think about. Niche games are always going to be ignored in favor of mainstream when all options are on the table. And yeah, all these characters are locked in now, but there are still quite a few characters people care about a lot that fall into this category of niche, so need the Nintendo focus to even have a chance. Like Isaac, Ashley, Bandana Dee, Saki, Elma, etc.

I know for a lot of people a cool third party is more exciting than all of those combined, but this space is the only chance those characters ever have in a big crossover fighter like this. Masterchief, Nathan Drake, Kratos, Kat, Snake, Simon Belmont, SubZero, Heihachi, and even Shovel Knight and Quote have all had their chances to shine in a crossover fighter. Others like Banjo will have a high chance of inclusion if their companies ever make a crossover fighter.

That's part of what's annoying to us "Nintendo purists". We have series we love where this is their one shot and the more third parties the less chance they'll ever see their chance. Isaac will never make it into a fighter other than Smash. Belmont has and could again.

Edit: my phone freaked out and made a really unfortunate autocorrect that said I don't think people are entitled to opinion instead of I do

I mean sure, in general Nintendo characters will get in over certain third parties because it is made by Nintendo and HAL, but still...
Like I have seen some people complain in Smash 4 about how there are too many third parties in this thread.
I do not mind getting one or two more.