Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I don't necessarily think it's right to cut someone as iconic as Mewtwo, but I can't deny that he would be a lower priority than the others (save for Greninja).

Actually, I could argue Greninja has more priority than Mewtwo because of his relevance in the anime.

 

[Cosmic77]

Actually, I could argue Greninja has more priority than Mewtwo because of his relevance in the anime.

Greninja's time in the anime has gone and passed. It's possible he'll return later in the Sun and Moon series, but if not, I think the XYZ arc will be too outdated by the next Smash game. Same goes with Mewtwo and his movie. Neither really have much going for them in the anime at the moment.

The main reason why I think Greninja is a lower priority is because he's a starter Pokemon. Starter Pokemon ALWAYS struggle to be relevant because they're so heavily tied down to their own Gen. It's hard for the marketing team to use fairly new starter Pokemon in the promotions of new mainstream games without fans less familiar with franchise assuming, "Oh, I guess this game isn't very different from the last one if they're putting so much emphasis on this old Pokemon from the previous games." Going forward, I don't see Game Freak doing much with Greninja. Mewtwo is a popular Gen I Pokemon, and given how much they love pushing Gen I, it seems like he has a better chance of staying relevant than Greninja.

 

[IronTed]

I don't see any Pokemon being cut, although some have been cut in the past:
Aside from being a clone, Pichu was never really that popular (or liked), both in the Smash and Pokemon communities.
This was more of a consequence of eliminating transformations for characters, as well as the fact Charizard was always the most logical option. Ivysaur in particular is the least popular of the bunch (being the awkward middle stage opposed to being first or fully evolved).

As for the current characters:
Is an overall very popular character, and while he never made it into Brawl, he did get close to being included. Seems odd to just cut him after his hyped return to Smash 4, as well as being at the very least seriously considered for every smash game ever (wasn't he considered for 64 at one point, or am I confusing him with someone else?)
Original 12. Not much else to say.
Extremely popular and in the last 2 games, seems like a lock.
No explanation needed.
See Charizard
Of the current 6 Pokemon characters, Greninja is probably the first to go (if one were to be cut, that is). But he still benefits from large popularity overall. So while he could get cut, he could also very well stay.

I mean, one could say both Brawl and 4 cut Pokemon, so Smash Switch would follow suit. But I'd contend the situation is different enough to warrant all 6 staying.

 

[Opossum]

Greninja's time in the anime has gone and passed. It's possible he'll return later in the Sun and Moon series, but if not, I think the XYZ arc will be too outdated by the next Smash game. Same goes with Mewtwo and his movie. Neither really have much going for them in the anime at the moment.

The main reason why I think Greninja is a lower priority is because he's a starter Pokemon. Starter Pokemon ALWAYS struggle to be relevant because they're so heavily tied down to their own Gen. It's hard for the marketing team to use fairly new starter Pokemon in the promotions of new mainstream games without fans less familiar with franchise assuming, "Oh, I guess this game isn't very different from the last one if they're putting so much emphasis on this old Pokemon from the previous games." Going forward, I don't see Game Freak doing much with Greninja. Mewtwo is a popular Gen I Pokemon, and given how much they love pushing Gen I, it seems like he has a better chance of staying relevant than Greninja.

I mean, to be fair, Greninja saw quite a bit of promotion in Gen VII despite being a Gen VI Pokémon, what with the Ash-Greninja promotion for the Sun and Moon demo, and them highlighting the fact that Greninja was an island scan Pokémon in USUM. It may not be a lot, but it's more than most other non-Gen I starters get after their time in the sun, and I think it's at least partially because of Greninja's sizable and still-prevalent popularity.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Is an overall very popular character, and while he never made it into Brawl, he did get close to being included. Seems odd to just cut him after his hyped return to Smash 4, as well as being at the very least seriously considered for every smash game ever (wasn't he considered for 64 at one point, or am I confusing him with someone else?)

Mewtwo is a weird case though.

Yes, I think he was considered for 64 and he almost made it in Brawl too. But Smash 4? Nothing from him until DLC which, considering it's been stated they started working on DLC after finishing the game, could imply Mewtwo wasn't even considered for the base game, despite his popularity.

 

[Nonno Umby]

Mewtwo is a weird case though.

Yes, I think he was considered for 64 and he almost made it in Brawl too. But Smash 4? Nothing from him until DLC which, considering it's been stated they started working on DLC after finishing the game, could imply Mewtwo wasn't even considered for the base game, despite his popularity.

But they announced Mewtwo well before the launch of the game, and even the ERSB leaker didn't know his fate. Considering how much he was requested, he might as well been kept purposefully out of the base roster just for being sold apart.

 

[Staarih]

I think Jigglypuff ”being out of place” nowadays adds to her being a joke character really, I mean, Jigglypuff of all things among popular, cool Pokémon.

I feel Greninja has cemented his place as one of the more popular/known Pokémon among the likes of Lucario and Charizard. While Kalos is done with in both games and the anime, one huge aspect of popular Pokémon is if they’re ”good”, as in competitively viable. Greninja apparently is (I assume, I’m not really in the competitive scene), and will be - stats, abilities etc rarely change. The same can’t be really said of the Alolan starters, sadly, which is why I feel their appeal won’t last come next gen.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

But they announced Mewtwo well before the launch of the game, and even the ERSB leaker didn't know his fate. Considering how much he was requested, he might as well been kept purposefully out of the base roster just for being sold apart.

Technically, the 3DS version was already released for a month when he was announced, so in a way, he wasn't.

And if you don't count that, he was still only revealed a month before the Wii U version's release, which is much closer than games like Marvel Infinite, FighterZ, Injustice 2, etc. At this point, most of the game was more than likely already done, especially since a lot of it is also on the 3DS version.

 

[Deleted member]

Am I the only one that doesn’t consider Mewtwo, Lucas, Roy, Ryu, Cloud, Corrin, and Bayonetta as potential cuts?

I don’t mean that they are guaranteed to return (as I can easily imagine losing over half of the DLCs for next game) but that you can’t really cut someone that wasn’t an essential part of Smash 3DS and Wii U in the first place. I’m sure millions of people have never touched DLC so to these people, the characters we argue about do not register in their mind. I wouldn’t say Freddy Kruger from Mortal Kombat 9 was cut from MKX because he wasn’t part of the base roster. Why would Smash’s DLC characters be any different?

Also when are we expecting Gen 8 to be released? 2018, 2019, or 2020? When that gets released and when Smash 5 gets released will be important in considering whether or not we get a Gen 7 Pokémon. I say that we will get one if Gen 8 is not out say, a year before Smash 5, but if Gen 8 is even months away, we will get a Gen 8 Pokémon.

 

[Opossum]

Mewtwo is a weird case though.

Yes, I think he was considered for 64 and he almost made it in Brawl too. But Smash 4? Nothing from him until DLC which, considering it's been stated they started working on DLC after finishing the game, could imply Mewtwo wasn't even considered for the base game, despite his popularity.

I'm almost certain what happened with Mewtwo was that he was worked on for the base game, but as they were nearing completion they held him off as an incentive to have people buy both versions. It makes complete sense, marketing wise, and explains why they were able to show off his finished models when they did.

Of course they'd never come out and say that though, since it'd be a PR nightmare. That and we know DLC was at least thought about early on because of what the Gematsu leak said about Ness and Lucas.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Technically, the 3DS version was already released for a month when he was announced, so in a way, he wasn't.

And if you don't count that, he was still only revealed a month before the Wii U version's release, which is much closer than games like Marvel Infinite, FighterZ, Injustice 2, etc. At this point, most of the game was more than likely already done, especially since a lot of it is also on the 3DS version.

Do also note that Mewtwo was impossible to easily include since Melee's data was too old, which is also probably why he couldn't be easily included in Brawl. There were set back when Sonic was agreed to be included by Sega(who said no at first).

So that likely is a factor. Another thing is that Gamefreak was asked about Mewtwo well before it was announced, and Sakurai answered "we're thinking about it". Pretty sure it was considered before the final release, but he did say Mewtwo was worked on after the Wii U's release(minus the model, obviously).

 

[Cosmic77]

But they announced Mewtwo well before the launch of the game, and even the ERSB leaker didn't know his fate. Considering how much he was requested, he might as well been kept purposefully out of the base roster just for being sold apart.

Given how long it took for Mewtwo to be released after his initial reveal, it didn't seem like much thought went into Mewtwo until the game was in late development. I genuinely believe that Sakurai had no intention of bringing back Mewtwo, or any other non-full clone veteran for that case, until he saw the massive support the character had. After that, he must have felt like adding Mewtwo was necessary to avoid the downpour of "WHY DIDN'T YOU ADD MEWTWO!! YOU ADDED GRENINJA BUT NOT MEWTWO!?" comments he would undoubtedly receive. To help support my theory, Sakurai said that no other DLC was planned besides Mewtwo until he came across problems with finding a reasonable way to give Mewtwo away as a free download. I believe his original plan was to give him away to people who purchased both versions, but he realized soon afterwards that some people would have to purchase a Wii U console just to get Mewtwo. If that were to happen, he'd probably get more criticism than he would if he just avoided Mewtwo entirely.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

which is also probably why he couldn't be easily included in Brawl

Explain every Melee character that made it in Brawl then

But seriously, the fact that they likely did only the model at the time of his reveal could be what happened. I mean, with the time between his reveal and his release, and the fact that all of the other DLCs were revealed with an actual trailer rather than just a model shocase. It shows that they only did the bare minimum, likely not even any work on animations or anything else, and showed it to the world to hype them up.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Explain every Melee character that made it in Brawl then

It was obvious Mewtwo was low priority too. So... doesn't mean others didn't require a lot of work too~ Bar the clones/semi-clones didn't take as long, of course.

But seriously, the fact that they likely did only the model at the time of his reveal could be what happened. I mean, with the time between his reveal and his release, and the fact that all of the other DLCs were revealed with an actual trailer rather than just a model showcase. It shows that they only did the bare minimum, likely not even any work on animations or anything else, and showed it to the world to hype them up.

Pretty much. They just needed enough to get 'em riled up. Plus, considering stuff like trophies as is, a model didn't require much work to make overall.

 

[Skittles03]

Given how long it took for Mewtwo to be released after his initial reveal, it didn't seem like much thought went into Mewtwo until the game was in late development. I genuinely believe that Sakurai had no intention of bringing back Mewtwo, or any other non-full clone veteran for that case, until he saw the massive support the character had. After that, he must have felt like adding Mewtwo was necessary to avoid the downpour of "WHY DIDN'T YOU ADD MEWTWO!! YOU ADDED GRENINJA BUT NOT MEWTWO!?" comments he would undoubtedly receive. To help support my theory, Sakurai said that no other DLC was planned besides Mewtwo until he came across problems with finding a reasonable way to give Mewtwo away as a free download. I believe his original plan was to give him away to people who purchased both versions, but he realized soon afterwards that some people would have to purchase a Wii U console just to get Mewtwo. If that were to happen, he'd probably get more criticism than he would if he just avoided Mewtwo entirely.

Nintendo and Sora also had to run online servers, create balance patches and deal with other games, it’s not like they just completely dropped everything to develop Mewtwo in Smash 4. And they probably chose Greninja because he was a newer Pokémon and Nintendo always tries to include a new Pokémon from the newest generation available (Pichu in Melee, Lucario in Brawl, Greninja in Smash 4)

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Nintendo always tries to include a new Pokémon from the newest generation available (Pichu in Melee, Lucario in Brawl, Greninja in Smash 4)

Not sure if Pichu should count, since he was a clone and those were decisions added later in the development to make the roster as large as possible. Even more notable since Sakurai usually has an idea of what the entire base roster should be before development even begins. You're still right for the other two, however.

 

[Cosmic77]

Am I the only one that doesn’t consider Mewtwo, Lucas, Roy, Ryu, Cloud, Corrin, and Bayonetta as potential cuts?

I don’t mean that they are guaranteed to return (as I can easily imagine losing over half of the DLCs for next game) but that you can’t really cut someone that wasn’t an essential part of Smash 3DS and Wii U in the first place. I’m sure millions of people have never touched DLC so to these people, the characters we argue about do not register in their mind. I wouldn’t say Freddy Kruger from Mortal Kombat 9 was cut from MKX because he wasn’t part of the base roster. Why would Smash’s DLC characters be any different?

Also when are we expecting Gen 8 to be released? 2018, 2019, or 2020? When that gets released and when Smash 5 gets released will be important in considering whether or not we get a Gen 7 Pokémon. I say that we will get one if Gen 8 is not out say, a year before Smash 5, but if Gen 8 is even months away, we will get a Gen 8 Pokémon.

We've never had DLC before, so this is new territory for us. On one hand, the DLC characters were important enough to be added after the game's launch. On the other hand, the DLC characters weren't important enough to be added to the initial roster.

It all depends on how you interpret the situation.

It was obvious Mewtwo was low priority too. So... doesn't mean others didn't require a lot of work too~ Bar the clones/semi-clones didn't take as long, of course.

Mewtwo had a reasonable chunk of data left behind, so it's safe to say that he had SOME kind of priority that the other cut Melee characters didn't have (despite the other 4 all being clone characters that would be easy to program). Jigglypuff barely got in herself. If she wasn't so easy to program, Brawl would probably be stuck with only Pikachu, Pokemon Trainer, and Lucario.

It seems like Sakurai spent so much time on making Pokemon Trainer and Lucario that he was left scrambling trying to finish the old characters. Because of his deadline, there just wasn't enough time to include everything.

 

[IronTed]

Mewtwo is a weird case though.

Yes, I think he was considered for 64 and he almost made it in Brawl too. But Smash 4? Nothing from him until DLC which, considering it's been stated they started working on DLC after finishing the game, could imply Mewtwo wasn't even considered for the base game, despite his popularity.

Fair enough, it is true he was relegated to DLC opposed to being included in the game. But as previously stated, it's very possible he was held back to make the initial push for DLC much more attractive, i.e. the decision was based around marketing more than anything else. It was certainly a more compelling case than Lucas at least.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Fair enough, it is true he was relegated to DLC opposed to being included in the game. But as previously stated, it's very possible he was held back to make the initial push for DLC much more attractive, i.e. the decision was based around marketing more than anything else. It was certainly a more compelling case than Lucas at least.

Either way, they likely still did very little with Mewtwo at the time. Maybe he was considered but relegated to DLC for hype, but if they did, they clearly started working on him after the game's release (a simple model doesn't mean they finished the character) if the time between reveal and release is anything to go by.

 

[Opossum]

Either way, they likely still did very little with Mewtwo at the time. Maybe he was considered but relegated to DLC for hype, but if they did, they clearly started working on him after the game's release (a simple model doesn't mean they finished the character) if the time between reveal and release is anything to go by.

We don't know the extent of the work that was done. Just because they only showed the model doesn't mean other work wasn't done. He was still probably in a very early build form, but still.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Not sure if Pichu should count, since he was a clone and those were decisions added later in the development to make the roster as large as possible. Even more notable since Sakurai usually has an idea of what the entire base roster should be before development even begins. You're still right for the other two, however.

Pichu nor Greninja counts just cause they were "new". Pichu was added for an easy clone, and coincidentally also had his own movies. Greninja was simply added cause Sakurai saw the design and had inspiration from that alone.

Mewtwo had a reasonable chunk of data left behind, so it's safe to say that he had SOME kind of priority that the other cut Melee characters didn't have (despite the other 4 all being clone characters that would be easy to program). Jigglypuff barely got in herself. If she wasn't so easy to program, Brawl would probably be stuck with only Pikachu, Pokemon Trainer, and Lucario.

It seems like Sakurai spent so much time on making Pokemon Trainer and Lucario that he was left scrambling trying to finish the old characters. Because of his deadline, there just wasn't enough time to include everything.

He shares low priority with some others, yes, but there's no questioning that Mewtwo is low priority among the Pokemon nonetheless.

Also, let's note that the Wolf and Jigglypuff were near last in the data... the ones who didn't get into the SSE's story(besides Toon Link). In this case, it's really more likely that the SSE was a high priority creation, taking up 70% of development time. So anyone not in the story was easier to think about finishing up last. We do see this a bit with how Sonic was added late in the game(due to not being agreed to be in till very late, which pushed back the game's release a bit, and probably is why the Forbidden 7 never got in, or at least some of them) as well as a last-second show up near the end of the SSE.

Plus, with how easy Jigglypuff, Wolf, and Toon Link were to create, there was no reason they couldn't do so. Sakurai wants a younger Link version in each game since Melee. Wolf was very easy to create by retooling Fox, and Jigglypuff is a very popular addition that is a very easy semi-clone to make as is. Even though she's one of the last additions sometimes(or generally, it's not too clear with Smash 4 and Smash 64 completely when she was developed during the development time), it's too easy to keep in, so why cut if you don't need to?

 

[Opossum]

Pichu nor Greninja counts just cause they were "new". Pichu was added for an easy clone, and coincidentally also had his own movies. Greninja was simply added cause Sakurai saw the design and had inspiration from that alone.


He shares low priority with some others, yes, but there's no questioning that Mewtwo is low priority among the Pokemon nonetheless.

Also, let's note that the Wolf and Jigglypuff were near last in the data... the ones who didn't get into the SSE's story(besides Toon Link). In this case, it's really more likely that the SSE was a high priority creation, taking up 70% of development time. So anyone not in the story was easier to think about finishing up last. We do see this a bit with how Sonic was added late in the game(due to not being agreed to be in till very late, which pushed back the game's release a bit, and probably is why the Forbidden 7 never got in, or at least some of them) as well as a last-second show up near the end of the SSE.

Plus, with how easy Jigglypuff, Wolf, and Toon Link were to create, there was no reason they couldn't do so. Sakurai wants a younger Link version in each game since Melee. Wolf was very easy to create by retooling Fox, and Jigglypuff is a very popular addition that is a very easy semi-clone to make as is. Even though she's one of the last additions sometimes(or generally, it's not too clear with Smash 4 and Smash 64 completely when she was developed during the development time), it's too easy to keep in, so why cut if you don't need to?

Being new was definitely the major reason Greninja got in. Sakurai only got to see his design because he was seeking out a new Pokémon.

 

[IronTed]

Either way, they likely still did very little with Mewtwo at the time. Maybe he was considered but relegated to DLC for hype, but if they did, they clearly started working on him after the game's release (a simple model doesn't mean they finished the character) if the time between reveal and release is anything to go by.

It's all contingent on when they decided to go with DLC I guess. If it was a last minute idea than yeah, that would make sense. But if DLC was planned since the beginning to midterm, then it makes sense that Mewtwo would be a secondary priority. Better to finish the game first, then focus on DLC.

To be fair though we'll never know the full time-table of DLC characters' development.

 

[Krysco]

We've never had DLC before, so this is new territory for us. On one hand, the DLC characters were important enough to be added after the game's launch. On the other hand, the DLC characters weren't important enough to be added to the initial roster.

It all depends on how you interpret the situation.

Importance alone doesn't exactly tell the full story. Corrin didn't even exist when Sm4sh first came out (maybe as a concept but that'd be it), Cloud required getting in contact and arranging an agreement with Square Enix and Bayonetta got in purely due to the ballot which was held after the game came out. Not too sure how Ryu was handled since Capcom already allowed Megaman to be in the game. Mewtwo was worked on enough that he had a model to show off before the Wii U version came out and then Roy and Lucas are the easy ones to point at and say they weren't important enough for the base roster.

 

[Opossum]

Importance alone doesn't exactly tell the full story. Corrin didn't even exist when Sm4sh first came out (maybe as a concept but that'd be it), Cloud required getting in contact and arranging an agreement with Square Enix and Bayonetta got in purely due to the ballot which was held after the game came out. Not too sure how Ryu was handled since Capcom already allowed Megaman to be in the game. Mewtwo was worked on enough that he had a model to show off before the Wii U version came out and then Roy and Lucas are the easy ones to point at and say they weren't important enough for the base roster.

With Ryu, it likely had to do with the fact that a different part of Capcom handles Street Fighter licensing. Mega Man's copyright is for Capcom Co., Ltd, while Ryu's is for Capcom USA.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Being new was definitely the major reason Greninja got in. Sakurai only got to see his design because he was seeking out a new Pokémon.

It's both. If there was no inspiration, it wouldn't have interested him. He did want a new one, but what also matters just as much as being able to make a moveset. There's a reason Chrom didn't get in(because he couldn't figure out a unique moveset). That's why Robin got in instead. If he didn't figure out an easy moveset for Greninja, he wouldn't kept looking for other Gen VI Pokemon or even beyond that. The moveset was still extremely important.

And that's the only example of where being "new" isn't important just by itself. Not honestly trying to take a jab at Chrom here. It's just a coincidence of who I'm replying to.

 

[Cosmic77]

Pichu nor Greninja counts just cause they were "new". Pichu was added for an easy clone, and coincidentally also had his own movies. Greninja was simply added cause Sakurai saw the design and had inspiration from that alone.


He shares low priority with some others, yes, but there's no questioning that Mewtwo is low priority among the Pokemon nonetheless.

Also, let's note that the Wolf and Jigglypuff were near last in the data... the ones who didn't get into the SSE's story(besides Toon Link). In this case, it's really more likely that the SSE was a high priority creation, taking up 70% of development time. So anyone not in the story was easier to think about finishing up last. We do see this a bit with how Sonic was added late in the game(due to not being agreed to be in till very late, which pushed back the game's release a bit, and probably is why the Forbidden 7 never got in, or at least some of them) as well as a last-second show up near the end of the SSE.

Plus, with how easy Jigglypuff, Wolf, and Toon Link were to create, there was no reason they couldn't do so. Sakurai wants a younger Link version in each game since Melee. Wolf was very easy to create by retooling Fox, and Jigglypuff is a very popular addition that is a very easy semi-clone to make as is. Even though she's one of the last additions sometimes(or generally, it's not too clear with Smash 4 and Smash 64 completely when she was developed during the development time), it's too easy to keep in, so why cut if you don't need to?

I think you're mixing up "being high priority" with "being easy to program".

Sakurai wanted to add Wario in Melee, but refrained from doing so because he only had enough time left to make him a clone character, something he really didn't want to do. I don't know about you, but I'd say Wario would be a bit more of a priority than Dr. Mario. In the end, which of the two got added? Dr. Mario wasn't chosen because he was a bigger priority than Wario, but rather because he'd be an easy addition who would flesh out the roster and not upset fans for being a clone. I'm sure the same thing played out in Brawl; Sakurai was running out of time, worked too long on characters from other franchises, and had to draw lines somewhere to make his deadline. Why he waited so long to make Mewtwo, Jigglypuff, Wolf, and Toon Link (and I guess technically Roy too), I have no idea, but obviously Sakurai thought he would have the hardest time making Mewtwo. I think he made the right choice by dropping Mewtwo entirely. If the end result would be a worse version of an already sloppy character, I wouldn't want it.

 

[Nonno Umby]

Technically, the 3DS version was already released for a month when he was announced, so in a way, he wasn't.

And if you don't count that, he was still only revealed a month before the Wii U version's release, which is much closer than games like Marvel Infinite, FighterZ, Injustice 2, etc. At this point, most of the game was more than likely already done, especially since a lot of it is also on the 3DS version.

My point is, when the ESRB leak happen (well before even the 3DS version was out) the leaker didn't know what was Mewtwo's fate, while he could confirm that all the other veterans were cut. This proves that words about Mewtwo being added as DLC were already spread before the release of the game. And again, Sakurai said back at E3 2013 that he "might consider adding the new Mewtwo form to Smash".

I'm not saying that they made Mewtwo and hold him just to sell him, they did made him after development was over, but the idea to put him as DLC came well before the game release, because he was so requested and popular.



Besides all of this I doubt that Mewtwo is the most likely to be cut between the Pokemon. He is popular, relevant, with an unique moveset and extremely recognizable. Actually I don't think any of the current 6 Pokemon will get cut in the next one because of these reasons, but if we put it in terms of priority then I suppose Jigglypuff is the lowest. She was almost cut from Brawl, and could be added only because of Sonic's inclusion which delayed the game.

Don't get me wrong, I like the Puff and I don't think she will be cut, but she will probably be the last Pokemon added to the roster, and surely after Mewtwo.

 

[Deleted member]

I think you're mixing up "being high priority" with "being easy to program".

Sakurai wanted to add Wario in Melee, but refrained from doing so because he only had enough time left to make him a clone character, something he really didn't want to do. I don't know about you, but I'd say Wario would be a bit more of a priority than Dr. Mario. In the end, which of the two got added? Dr. Mario wasn't chosen because he was a bigger priority than Wario, but rather because he'd be an easy addition who would flesh out the roster and not upset fans for being a clone. I'm sure the same thing played out in Brawl; Sakurai was running out of time, worked too long on characters from other franchises, and had to draw lines somewhere to make his deadline. Why he waited so long to make Mewtwo, Jigglypuff, Wolf, and Toon Link (and I guess technically Roy too), I have no idea, but obviously Sakurai thought he would have the hardest time making Mewtwo. I think he made the right choice by dropping Mewtwo entirely. If the end result would be a worse version of an already sloppy character, I wouldn't want it.

The part about Wario and Dr. Mario isn't actually true.

Sakurai may have said that if there was more time to add one more character, he would have included Wario, but he never said that he considered Wario as a Mario clone.
That was misinformation that was spread by someone from another forum.

 

[Opossum]

The part about Wario and Dr. Mario isn't actually true.

Sakurai may have said that if there was more time to add one more character, he would have included Wario, but he never said that he considered Wario as a Mario clone.
That was misinformation that was spread by someone from another forum.

I thought that was only the Wolf stuff.

Huh.

 

[Deleted member]

Am I the only one that wants there to be if you get a Pokeball you have a 1/4096 or 1/8192 chance of getting a shiny? It would be a very nice touch in my opinion.

What if in the next Smash game, characters had certain favorite foods and eating them gave them some extra benefit, like speeding them up or giving them extra strength in addition to healing them more?

They could have story reasons for liking their favorite food too.

Samus/ZSS: Fruit - Speed Up Fruit is her favorite food, because it tastes delicious and she can't eat it out in space. It spoils during her long travels and she can only eat non-perishables in her ship.

Wario: Garlic - Strength Up Wario eats plenty of garlic to stay strong, and it's a known favorite food of his in the games.

Dedede/Kirby: Sweets - Hit Resistance Up You know they love to munch on cake and candy.

Earthworm Jim: Chip Butty - +100% armor Adds a "stamina buffer" that slowly drains to 0, which protects him from deadly blows for a period until the armor runs out. I know Jim's not in the game but I added him here anyways because the Chip Butty powerup in EWJ2 made me think of this idea.

Luigi: LOTS OF SPAGHETTI - Strength or Jumping Ability Up. Okay, maybe that is a terrible reference but it would be pretty funny to add in the game.

 

[Cosmic77]

The part about Wario and Dr. Mario isn't actually true.

Sakurai may have said that if there was more time to add one more character, he would have included Wario, but he never said that he considered Wario as a Mario clone.
That was misinformation that was spread by someone from another forum.

Really? That's news to me. Could've sworn Sakurai said that in a real interview a long time ago.

Still, my point stands. If the rest is still true, then Sakurai considered adding Wario at one point, but there wasn't enough time. Ultimately, Dr. Mario made the cut and Wario didn't, and that's not because the Doc was deemed more important.

(Edit: So I looked into this a little, and it turns out that Sakurai did say in a interview in Japan that Wario almost made it in Melee. The idea was quickly dropped because he didn't want to include too many Mario newcomers. Clones were decided late in development to flesh out the roster, so Sakurai thought Doc would be an easy and interesting addition. He went on to say that Wario could've been added at the expense of another character like Mewtwo or Marth/Roy, but he decided against it.)

My point is, when the ESRB leak happen (well before even the 3DS version was out) the leaker didn't know what was Mewtwo's fate, while he could confirm that all the other veterans were cut. This proves that words about Mewtwo being added as DLC were already spread before the release of the game. And again, Sakurai said back at E3 2013 that he "might consider adding the new Mewtwo form to Smash".

I'm not saying that they made Mewtwo and hold him just to sell him, they did made him after development was over, but the idea to put him as DLC came well before the game release, because he was so requested and popular.



Besides all of this I doubt that Mewtwo is the most likely to be cut between the Pokemon. He is popular, relevant, with an unique moveset and extremely recognizable. Actually I don't think any of the current 6 Pokemon will get cut in the next one because of these reasons, but if we put it in terms of priority then I suppose Jigglypuff is the lowest. She was almost cut from Brawl, and could be added only because of Sonic's inclusion which delayed the game.

Don't get me wrong, I like the Puff and I don't think she will be cut, but she will probably be the last Pokemon added to the roster, and surely after Mewtwo.

Here's at least one thing everyone should be able agree on - Sakurai doesn't need to cut any of the Pokemon characters. All six of them are completely unique, and the franchise isn't really going out of it's reasonable limits with six characters (Especially not now since everyone has their full attention on FE and its six characters).

 

[IronTed]

Yeah, that does sound right. Wario being the runner-up for Melee also makes sense when you consider he was one of the first characters announced for Brawl.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

(Especially not now since everyone has their full attention on FE and its six characters).

That's only because people look at the roster for representation.

Let's look at how the Pokemon and FE franchises are represented on the Wii U version.

Both get 6 characters, yes. But all of Pokemon's are unique while FE basically has three Marths. That means half of its roster has the same fighting style, which might be a reason why people complain about too much FE. Heck, even Corrin almost looked like a Marth clone until we were shown that they'd use their dragon abilities more than they do in their own game.

Just for trophies, Pokemon alone has 106 trophies out of the total of 743 (incuding DLC). How many does FE have? 23.

Both have two stages, one from Brawl and one brand new. But for the brand new ones FE's Coliseum is just a generic walk-off stage with alternating platform layout while Kalos Pokemon League looks absolutely gorgeous, has different layouts which also grant different hazards and a ton of Pokemon cameos.

When it comes to items, FE only gets a Lyn Assist Trophy while Pokemon has not one, but two items; Poke Ball and Master Ball. They allow you to summon one Pokemon out of a list of forty.

Music-wise, Pokemon gets 24 songs. FE gets 23, two of them being Lost in Thoughts All Alone, which were added alongside Corrin.

tl;dr FE does have a lot of characters, but said characters, the music and the Lyn AT is the only representation the franchise really gets. The main problem is how 2 of them are Marth clones (Roy, Lucina), meaning half of its roster is more or less similar.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Also when are we expecting Gen 8 to be released? 2018, 2019, or 2020? When that gets released and when Smash 5 gets released will be important in considering whether or not we get a Gen 7 Pokémon. I say that we will get one if Gen 8 is not out say, a year before Smash 5, but if Gen 8 is even months away, we will get a Gen 8 Pokémon.

I think we're all expecting Gen 8 (well at least I am) in the annual holiday Pokemon spot next year. Everyone is pretty sure that the Switch game announced at this past E3 will be the first of Gen 8 and Ishihara said it would be coming out in a year or so or something along those lines.

 

[Deleted member]

May I have y'all's attention, please? Have you guys heard about Brawlout yet and that it has been released for the Switch? Well, my thoughts are like this: I read the review on that game here and I told myself the hell with this (excuse my unladylike language, kids). See, it lacks some of the elements we all know and love like shielding, gimmicky stages, items, and what-not. I need those elements, so I will personally skip this especially since high-level competitive play is not my cup of green tea and put my $20 towards something else. For me, the waiting in anticipation of another Smash iteration continues....

Now...I would like to hear your thoughts about Brawlout. Would you consider purchasing it despite the negatives?

 

[Deleted member]

As I said earlier Smash for Switch needs buffs, like a Zelda and Jigglypuff buff. Buff Jigglypuff so my man Hungrbox can play in Smash Five. Buff Zelda because she deserves it. Buff Ganondorf please. I know it would make him powerful but he struggles so much. I mean think about when he has to fight a skilled Sheik, Bayonetta and Pikachu.

Spoiler: Ganondorf

 

[Deleted member]

I think we're all expecting Gen 8 (well at least I am) in the annual holiday Pokemon spot next year. Everyone is pretty sure that the Switch game announced at this past E3 will be the first of Gen 8 and Ishihara said it would be coming out in a year or so or something along those lines.

I'm not sure why they would release another generation so quickly. I mean, that gives Gen 7 only two years and I don't think they will squash it out that quickly. Now 2019 is something I'd be willing to bet on because I do expect this generation to be short (and in a way, I'm surprised we got two generations on the 3DS) rather than the long transition we saw between Gen 3 and 4 (four years).

 

[Cosmic77]

So Aonuma announced that BotW is dunzo in terms of DLC and updates. Now that it's officially complete, do you think BotW gave enough emphasis on it's characters for it to receive a newcomer in Smash, or are you still unconvinced that BotW will be the inspiration for the next Zelda character?

That's only because people look at the roster for representation.

Let's look at how the Pokemon and FE franchises are represented on the Wii U version.

Both get 6 characters, yes. But all of Pokemon's are unique while FE basically has three Marths. That means half of its roster has the same fighting style, which might be a reason why people complain about too much FE. Heck, even Corrin almost looked like a Marth clone until we were shown that they'd use their dragon abilities more than they do in their own game.

Just for trophies, Pokemon alone has 106 trophies out of the total of 743 (incuding DLC). How many does FE have? 23.

Both have two stages, one from Brawl and one brand new. But for the brand new ones FE's Coliseum is just a generic walk-off stage with alternating platform layout while Kalos Pokemon League looks absolutely gorgeous, has different layouts which also grant different hazards and a ton of Pokemon cameos.

When it comes to items, FE only gets a Lyn Assist Trophy while Pokemon has not one, but two items; Poke Ball and Master Ball. They allow you to summon one Pokemon out of a list of forty.

Music-wise, Pokemon gets 24 songs. FE gets 23, two of them being Lost in Thoughts All Alone, which were added alongside Corrin.

tl;dr FE does have a lot of characters, but said characters, the music and the Lyn AT is the only representation the franchise really gets. The main problem is how 2 of them are Marth clones (Roy, Lucina), meaning half of its roster is more or less similar.

To be fair, we're comparing Pokemon, a monster-sized franchise that usually sells over 10 million copies for each new installment, to Fire Emblem, a franchise that picked up some ground, but usually sells around 1-2 million for new games. Even if FE isn't represented as much through trophies and stages like Pokemon or even KI has been, it's still been given some special attention here and there. Chrom was the only non-KI character to have dialogue in Palutena's Guidance, Robin and Corrin both have female alts with their own voice clips, and FE is the only franchise to have gotten a character added primarily for promotional reasons (and not one, but TWO of FE's characters were promotional).

 

[IronTed]

I'm not sure why they would release another generation so quickly. I mean, that gives Gen 7 only two years and I don't think they will squash it out that quickly. Now 2019 is something I'd be willing to bet on because I do expect this generation to be short (and in a way, I'm surprised we got two generations on the 3DS) rather than the long transition we saw between Gen 3 and 4 (four years).

3 years wouldn't be short actually. Going by initial release dates almost every gen has been 3 years except for III and IV, which were 4. Gen I was odd, it was about 3.5 years. So yeah, November 2019 seems like the likely date at this point based on those facts.