Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

To it's defense Master Hand was almost made a playable character in Melee..and actually is in an incomplete stage due to a glitch found back in the day.
I was there when the glitch was found, and the whole boards lost their minds. Fun times.

Wait, wait, wait, how was he "almost made playable"? I'm well aware that he had a moveset in Smash 64 that used the same controls as the other playable characters(but so did every boss/npc anyway), but that means nothing. Literally the only thing it did at best was give people a hint that a Side B could be a new move slot(something I did predict ages ago due to playing as Master Hand, but even then, it's not like it means jack-all here).

I'm aware of the glitch too, but a glitch doesn't mean anything either. Could you explain further on how he was almost made playable?

 

[vaanrose]

Seriously though, what is it about ROB?

NO ONE mentioned that "Oh hey, ROB's missing", and yeah, there were VERY obvious tells that it was fake before, that would have killed it before people even picked up on the ridiculous stuff like "New Villager"

......but poor ROB. He's just... soo forgettable.

HE DON'T EVEN GOT A HOME STAGE, MANG

I didn't even actually look at all the characters, lol. I didn't even realize New Villager was there until other people pointed her out. I went straight to the font cause I know it to be the weakest link.

 

[Blargg888]

I mean, I'd love to have a miniaturized version of Master Hand be playable.

It'll never happen, but it'd be pretty cool.

I've long held the belief that R.O.B. is the most forgettable Smash character despite his role in the SSE and this only confirms that for me.

Maybe in general, but he's pretty memorable to me. Though that might just be because I play as him a lot.

Honestly, if it weren't for her massive notoriety in the competitive scene, Bayonetta would probably be the most forgettable character in Smash for me.

As it stands though, I'm not really sure who my most forgettable is.

 

[Zinith]

I mean, I'd love to have a miniaturized version of Master Hand be playable.

It'll never happen, but it'd be pretty cool.

Maybe in general, but he's pretty memorable to me. Though that might just be because I play as him a lot.

Honestly, if it weren't for her massive notoriety in the competitive scene, Bayonetta would probably be the most forgettable character in Smash for me.

As it stands though, I'm not really sure who my most forgettable is.

Mario?

 

[P.Kat]

I also do hope that The Alleged August Direct gives us at least one or two newcomers to also tide us over for the month of August (It's possible that might happen since loz18 doesn't know about any newcomers like he did with his E3 Leak)!

Yep, I'm hoping for August to show something good. Hopefully Amaterasu, since her game is coming out that month, but only time will tell.

Within 4 hours of any reveal it'll be back to "waiting on the next reveal to keep us from this drought"
I promise

If I get Elma, Ashley, Isabelle, Gardevoir/Primarina, or Amaterasu, then that'll be enough hype fuel to get me to December, I can promise you that

The Rep Wars will commence once again on December 8th!!!

Then as a person who doesn't care about reps, I'll have to be the peace keeper, and use this song to quell the fighting...

 

[lordvaati]

Wait, wait, wait, how was he "almost made playable"? I'm well aware that he had a moveset in Smash 64 that used the same controls as the other playable characters(but so did every boss/npc anyway), but that means nothing. Literally the only thing it did at best was give people a hint that a Side B could be a new move slot(something I did predict ages ago due to playing as Master Hand, but even then, it's not like it means jack-all here).

I'm aware of the glitch too, but a glitch doesn't mean anything either. Could you explain further on how he was almost made playable?

Its obviously not 100% confirmed without inside info, but several tidbits like Master Hand having an announcer quote as well as his name appearing on the scorecard of Pokemon Stadium as a combatant make many theorize he was considered at one point( then again Giga Bowser and the Wireframes had vocal quotes too so it's iffy there.)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Its obviously not 100% confirmed without inside info, but several tidbits like Master Hand having an announcer quote as well as his name appearing on the scorecard of Pokemon Stadium as a combatant make many theorize he was considered at one point( then again Giga Bowser and the Wireframes had vocal quotes too so it's iffy there.)

The scorecard thing is a decent point, but the announcer bit is something that is done for everyone due to Classic Mode anyway. It's just probably a placeholder due to various things like Adventure Mode having an announcer at one point. The scorecard bit is strange, though.

 

[StormC]

I could see Master Hand be playable in a special mode but he wouldn't be in standard multiplayer or other modes.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I didn't even actually look at all the characters, lol. I didn't even realize New Villager was there until other people pointed her out. I went straight to the font cause I know it to be the weakest link.

I didn't even notice Dixie or Dark Samus were on it until people talked about the "New Villager" and I realized the person added echoes of characters.

 

[vaanrose]

The scorecard thing is a decent point, but the announcer bit is something that is done for everyone due to Classic Mode anyway. It's just probably a placeholder due to various things like Adventure Mode having an announcer at one point. The scorecard bit is strange, though.

It's not inherently a sign he was meant to be playable. A lot of the time weird stuff like is a failsafe. I don't pretend to know how Melee is coded, but say something goes wrong and Master Hand winds up on Stadium, if the game looks for data that isn't there, that's how MissingNo happens.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Who needs Master Hand? Glover for Smash Utlimate!




But actually though, a mode where you play as bosses would be pretty cool. Maybe one person as the boss, then like 2-3 players fighting against you

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I want a character disconfirmation that is as scathing as Waluigi's.

"Just because you try hard, doesn't mean you'll make it into Smash"

Funny thing too, some guys don't even have to try at all.

In all seriousness, I wonder if Sakurai will bother with stuff like that after hate tweets from more passionate Waluigi-fans and more. If going by those (even if minimal), I dunno what'd it look like if he decided to meme over K.Rool in vein of Waluigi/Chrom.

I might also be in a minority with this but I never really liked Smash Bros's tendency to burn characters deemed as NPCs, considering it's highly influential power on them in the future. Ridley might have been resurrected from being a big meme he was in the videogame community before, but now Waluigi has taken his place instead.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It's not inherently a sign he was meant to be playable. A lot of the time weird stuff like is a failsafe. I don't pretend to know how Melee is coded, but say something goes wrong and Master Hand winds up on Stadium, if the game looks for data that isn't there, that's how MissingNo happens.

I thought of that too(before you replied), but it's still strange. Would Sakurai think the character would ever be on another course? I know that Smash 64 has some kind of weird glitch thing where you can only play as Mario(1st costume) in Classic Mode that can happen randomly if you used a Gameshark to cheat, but I don't know if that's an intentional failsafe/"screw you for hacking" thing either.

And yeah, that's a possible explanation too, it's just that considering Master Hand no longer has a traditional moveset like Smash 64, it's weird that he could show up anywhere else. He was made differently. I guess it's a Debug Mode factor too.

It's just an odd situation and all. I don't consider it definite proof either, it's just a halfway decent point to consider. No more, no less.(I didn't call it a good point for a reason)

 

[Houndstooth]

The comics were great fun overall, especially when Ian Flynn took over replacing Ken Penders as the main writer. If you never read the comics before and you're interested, there's 3 jumping on points:

1. Start at the very beginning; 2. (NOT REALLY RECOMMENDED) Start at Issue 160 at the beginning of Ian Flynn's run; 3. Start at Issue 252, which starts off with a literal soft reboot of the comics universe after the events of the first crossover with Mega Man.

Either way, for your convenience, here's a reading order guide:
View attachment 154736
The IDW comics are being written by Flynn, and from what I've seen and heard so far, it's good stuff.

Thanks for the info. I will definitely start looking into this stuff. I love comic books and have been collecting a ton of DC comics for a while now. I'll probably add IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog to my pull list now.

For people who want more Sonic comic goodness they should read the Sonic the Comic stories. Though where you'd find said comics I don't know.

Just like Archie Sonic it takes extreme liberties with the Sonic canon (which at the time was vague anyway). While I haven't read the comics myself since they originally came out, it still has a dedicated fanbase (despite being cancelled around the time Sonic Adventure came out), and I remember good things about it.

Apparently it only takes until about Issue 8 to get good.

Now, as for reading guides... well, I have no idea. *shrug*

Awesome. Glad to have more Sonic comics info. I'll be looking into this as well.

---------------------------------

Seems like this thread moved faster today than earlier in the week. Then again, no site crashes today. Anyway, glad to see that we are about to be in August territory so that some of these "rumored leaks" can finally be disregarded. Plus, I believe we will be getting an August Direct to update us about all of the new Nintendo Switch Online features, since it is launching in September and all. People will want to know what it will cost to play Smash online. And, it would be the perfect time to talk about different modes since "Online Mode" would probably be brought up if they were to transition a Direct that way. Anyways, I'm hyped!

 

[Deleted member]

The scorecard thing is a decent point, but the announcer bit is something that is done for everyone due to Classic Mode anyway. It's just probably a placeholder due to various things like Adventure Mode having an announcer at one point. The scorecard bit is strange, though.

All the NPCs had names read on Pokémon Stadium, not just Master Hand.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

All the NPCs had names read on Pokémon Stadium, not just Master Hand.

...Now, you see, that kind of kills the decent part. Thanks for bringing that up.

Though whether that was "cause debug mode was used" or a straight failsafe is another story. Still, proves that it doesn't show in any way he was meant to be playable.

 

[Deleted member]

...Now, you see, that kind of kills the decent part. Thanks for bringing that up.

Though whether that was "cause debug mode was used" or a straight failsafe is another story. Still, proves that it doesn't show in any way he was meant to be playable.

Really, all it shows is that characters had Pokémon Stadium reads in case they appeared on the stage for whatever reason.
Though obviously not in the right format as the rest of the characters as we get
Masterhand
Crazyhand
G-Bowser (though this one may be intentional as a way to shorten the name like "C. Falcon".
ZAKO otoko (Male Wire Frame)
ZAKO onna (Female Wire Frame)

...though as I remember it, I think Sandbag is the only exception. His was blank IIRC.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Really, all it shows is that characters had Pokémon Stadium reads in case they appeared on the stage for whatever reason.
Though obviously not in the right format as the rest of the characters as we get
Masterhand
Crazyhand
G-Bowser (though this one may be intentional as a way to shorten the name like "C. Falcon".
ZAKO otoko (Male Wire Frame)
ZAKO onna (Female Wire Frame)

...though as I remember it, I think Sandbag is the only exception. His was blank IIRC.

I mean, it's not impossible to think Debug Mode is part of the reason why they decided to do it, but yeah, it's still glaringly a failsafe. I just wonder if it was more than that alone.

Though if anything, now I want to see the Kirby Team from 64 with permanent hats appear with a Scorecard. XD

 

[Troykv]

I mean, it's not impossible to think Debug Mode is part of the reason why they decided to do it, but yeah, it's still glaringly a failsafe. I just wonder if it was more than that alone.

Though if anything, now I want to see the Kirby Team from 64 with permanent hats appear with a Scorecard. XD

Kirby Hats have their own space in the code?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Kirby Hats have their own space in the code?

No. It's more that in Smash 64, the Kirby Team were explicitly designed to have permanent hats that couldn't be removed. Likely just to save time programming-wise.

I want to see an actual scorecard of each Kirby Hat for the fun of it. I was just inspired by this.

 

[Troykv]

No. It's more that in Smash 64, the Kirby Team were explicitly designed to have permanent hats that couldn't be removed. Likely just to save time programming-wise.

I want to see an actual scorecard of each Kirby Hat for the fun of it. I was just inspired by this.

I'm still not sure how that works; but it's okay xDU.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm still not sure how that works; but it's okay xDU.

Okay, you know how Kirby can lose his hat if he taunts/dies/is hit hard enough?

The Kirby Team couldn't in that game. This is a programming feature and can be coded in. There's even Gameshark Codes for it in Smash 64. Why they did it who knows. Might be simply to give something for Kirby to use at any point for his Neutral B. Could be for the challenge.

But being they are slightly different from Kirby, it'd be fun and silly to see what kind of names they could have instead of simply "Kirby". Kind of like how we have the various Kirby forms(Fire Kirby, etc.).

Again, silly fun. Seeing the scorecard for NPC's in Melee being mentioned is simply why I even thought of this. Them being effectively uniquely coded NPC's(despite not really being that in reality) makes it a fun idea. Make sense now?

 

[Troykv]

Okay, you know how Kirby can lose his hat if he taunts/dies/is hit hard enough?

The Kirby Team couldn't in that game. This is a programming feature and can be coded in. There's even Gameshark Codes for it in Smash 64. Why they did it who knows. Might be simply to give something for Kirby to use at any point for his Neutral B. Could be for the challenge.

But being they are slightly different from Kirby, it'd be fun and silly to see what kind of names they could have instead of simply "Kirby". Kind of like how we have the various Kirby forms(Fire Kirby, etc.).

Again, silly fun. Seeing the scorecard for NPC's in Melee being mentioned is simply why I even thought of this. Them being effectively uniquely coded NPC's(despite not really being that in reality) makes it a fun idea. Make sense now?

I see; that makes sense; I wonder how the Programming has written this stuff.

 

[Pakky]

...
Groovy cuz I watched him as a kid

Spoiler: Earthworm Jim

Did anyone asked for this???

No...

Did I want it?

Yes...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I see; that makes sense; I wonder how the Programming has written this stuff.

Well, the Gameshark codes is probably the best way to look at it. If I remember right, every hat had its own coding for some odd reason. My guess is it's just a programming quirk due to being an early and rushed game. I can confirm from Quest 64 that poor programming methods can be used as "shortcuts" or the idea that things can be weird for a reason.

As noted, the fact they have the hats being permanent could be the reason for this. Basically it'd be like coding for Items. An On/Off switch.

 

[blazefan519]

kek looking past chat and I see the "New Villager" thing. ngl and say that I wouldn't mind playing as them, I prefer the New Leaf designs.

 

[Green_Pikmin*]

I just noticed something in Memorymans amiibo leak, not only does he mention extra spaces for Daisy and Waddle Dee amiibos but also he mentions Animal Crossing amiibos. He assumes its for the amiibo cards, though I wouldnt be suprised if he overlooked Isabelle as I assume he quickly grouped the animal crossing data he found all together.

 

[dezeray112]

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76848606

Click the link. It used to link to the Vergeben thread and now it's gone.
I'm betting the former. The threads regarding Ridley, Ice Climbers and the unconfirmed Simon Belmont are still up and if they get taken down, I have the archive that we can access. Yet almost as soon as he puts up the Isabelle thread, it gets taken down. Something tells me Nintendo ninjas are at work and found out that someone is leaking information to DasVergeben which he leaks to us.

Don't know if this had been posted yet, but from DasVergeben himself on Reddit:

"It got modded because they said what I posted would incite trolling. I guess they were justified in their own right.

So the thread got nuked to try and prevent trolling within the community. But it's too late. My saying Isabelle is in and any leak lists without Simon and Isabelle are automatically *censored* is going to spawn fake ones anyway. Apparently someone posted one featuring both of them popped up on 4chan within only a few hours after. lol"

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/92kaqv/vergeben_has_spoken_again/e37q8ko/?context=3

On the Smash Reddit Leak I posted earlier - I pretty much knew there was something off about that leak especially when the descriptions for Inklings and Ridley's gameplay do not match as well as Samus's design.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Thanks to ResetERA's TheDinoman and IntelliHeath, we seem to have all of his posts together now. Here's what seems to be a full summary of Loz18's posts (Let me know if I missed anything):

Spoiler: First set

-All characters returns, roster will be 60+ not including Inklings.
-Ganondorf is OoT based
-Inklings' moveset details
-Multiple airdodges
-Wavedashing returns
-Demo will have around 12 characters, will start stage first, then character selection
-Link is unchanged aside from Bombs and no hookshot
-Zelda is based off of ALBW
-Believes higher ups may've played with unannounced characters
-Demo didn't have a title, just a splash screen of Super Smash bros.
-There will be a Nintendo Direct in August, will showcase the start screen all the way up to the menu options. Tournament Mode and two other modes aside from All-Star Mode will be shown, one is completely new and will be used to unlock new characters.

Spoiler: Second set

-Zelda will have a BotW costume
-Airdodges are directional.
-Dodges will have a penalty
-There are more newcomers, believed one would happen at the invitational.
-Heard there will be a 'heroes vs. villains'
theme, but isn't sure.
-Nintendo has been strict on information.
-Tournament Bracket Mode will be in the game
-There may be a story mode.

Also, he does believe Vergeban has access to some information, thanks to Dragoncharystary for this.

So far, he's had a really good track record, the only thing that seems to be inaccurate right now is Zelda missing a BotW costume (at least in the demo), the amount of characters in the demo being around 30, and not getting a character at the Invitational. The last two are potentially excusable since the former seems to have been an even earlier build based on what he says about the title screen and the latter could've been speculation on his part based on his wording.

Sorry for the really late reply on this. I literally went to bed right before this was posted. Anyway thanks for the shoutout, but it was actually dezeray112 who found that quote and not me. I just relayed it to someone else who was asking for it.

As for the info here, a few things missing. In the thread where he mentioned all characters were returning and he talked about the Zelda character redesigns, he also said Moray Towers would be the Splatoon stage in this game before it got revealed so he has that going for him to. You have to read the thread all the way through to find it.

Another thing not here is also later on in that thread he apologized for saying there could be a character reveal at the invitational and said the surprise that he had heard about actually turned out to be Nairo and not any new info on the game. Could be backpedaling but I believe him here.

I'm inclined to believe everything he says because he got most things right and what wasn't right could easily have been a misinterpretation such as wavedashing coming back. I think the 12 character demo he had access to could've been an early build.

Here's a link to the thread where he made his posts: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76579834/903312039

So I skipped 50 pages, what's the latest haps? I saw something two pages ago about a credible leaker?

This guy named loz18 was very recently brought up. He leaked a ton of accurate info before E3 about the game. The thing with him is that he mostly posts deep in random threads on GameFAQs as to stay hidden and he has said as much. Recently, someone informed Source Gaming of him which prompted them to do a video disussion on him that went up less than 24 hours ago. That started some discussion of him yesterday in this forum even though he's been leaking stuff for a while now. Anyway the thing he says to look forward to is a Direct in August that will discuss new modes and such. You can look at the post I quoted above or the spoiler I'm leaving here for more info.

Spoiler: Loz18

Thread with accurate info: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76579834/903312039
Statement on Verg and other things: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76579834/903312039
Source Gaming Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RROUSc-WbhM

 

[blazefan519]

Don't know if this had been posted yet, but from DasVergeben himself on Reddit:

"It got modded because they said what I posted would incite trolling. I guess they were justified in their own right.

So the thread got nuked to try and prevent trolling within the community. But it's too late. My saying Isabelle is in and any leak lists without Simon and Isabelle are automatically *censored* is going to spawn fake ones anyway. Apparently someone posted one featuring both of them popped up on 4chan within only a few hours after. lol"

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/92kaqv/vergeben_has_spoken_again/e37q8ko/?context=3

On the Smash Reddit Leak I posted earlier - I pretty much knew there was something off about that leak especially when the descriptions for Inklings and Ridley's gameplay do not match as well as Samus's design.

Neat so we finally got our reason why. It'll be funny seeing all the subsequent leaks saying that the two are in. Betting Isabelle will shoot up on that "leaks that mention this character" tab. It'll also be funny to see a leak that doesn't mention the two be right as well.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

The funniest ****ing thing about him claiming ''I'm gonna cause a ton of Simon and Isabelle leaks." is that he really can only claim Simon.

Isabelle was appearing on a lot of leaks before he even said Simon.

Because you know....she's one of the most popular new Nintendo characters not in Smash Brothers.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

The funniest ****ing thing about him claiming ''I'm gonna cause a ton of Simon and Isabelle leaks." is that he really can only claim Simon.

Isabelle was appearing on a lot of leaks before he even said Simon.

Because you know....she's one of the most popular new Nintendo characters not in Smash Brothers.

I think he specifically means leaks that now have both Simon and Isabelle. Sure, Isabelle was a in several leaks before, but now every Simon leak will also include her.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I'm wary of Isabelle being in Smash, in all honesty.

At the very least, he's not claiming she's a Villager Echo, so I can't say it's total nonsense and it does make it somewhat believable.

Because the body proportions of pre-New Leaf Villager and Isabelle aren't even close enough to say she can be a low-effort clone.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Random idea: Since ROB is a real world peripheral, shouldn't his home stage be Living Room?

 

[Zinith]

Random idea: Since ROB is a real world peripheral, shouldn't his home stage by Living Room?

Only if they remove that Nintendogs logo...

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Random idea: Since ROB is a real world peripheral, shouldn't his home stage by Living Room?

That... kinda makes sense.

Alternatively, you can also say PictoChat because A. it's a feature from a real-world console (the DS) and B. his appearance in Mario Kart DS.

 

[P.Kat]

Spoiler: Hades

Hair is hard and it makes me angry...

It looks incredible I think you did a great job.

So if Isabelle is true.

What other popular characters that were assists that are missing?

Isaac? Shadow? Skull Kid? Ashley?

Am I missing anyone? What are these guys chances?

There is Saki Amamiya, Phosphora, Kat & Ana they have a good chance of getting in, but Ashley would most likely get in before, or in place of Kat & Ana, who I think would make a good Ice Climbers echoes fighter if they made it in.

 

[Staarih]

Because you know....she's one of the most popular new Nintendo characters not in Smash Brothers.

Yet I rarely see people giving her the time of day. So if nothing else, I can thank Verge for opening up more discussion on Isabelle haha!

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Yet I rarely see people giving her the time of day. So if nothing else, I can thank Verge for opening up more discussion on Isabelle haha!

Animal Crossing is too pacifist and normal for a board that's filled with Fire Emblem and Xenoblade nerds.

Meanwhile my gay ass is just gonna go decorate my house and have a cute dog as a secretary.

Marth-a who?!

 

[Dragoncharystary]

I think the stars are aligning for an Ashley reveal. I believe loz saying that there will be a Direct of some kind in August that will mention new Smash modes and stuff like that and I think we will get Ashley there. It could potentially be on August 3rd which is a heavily rumored day for some reason.

There are a couple of reasons as to why I think Ashley is next. We just had WarioWare Gold released, Ashley is perfect as fighter no. 66, and we just had the western favorite in Ridley revealed so it makes some sense to reveal the Japanese favorite next.

I don't even support Ashley, I just think she's incredibly likely as the next fighter.