Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[KMDP]

they're more likely to just double down on relevant characters instead.

You say that, but they held the ballot for a reason.

That being said, I agree with everything else you said.

 

[Arcanir]

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I really don't think we will be getting a newcomer from Zelda or Kirby. Also if we get a newcomer from Pokemon, I have a feeling it will be a Pokemon that no one really expects.

Sillvally confirmed.

#3 - Okay. Dark Samus is possible, don't get me wrong, but I believe people are reading too far into her. Her not being seen thus far in Smash Ultimate as an Assist Trophy doesn't hold much weight, as they probably wanted to focus on new Assist Trophies first. People think that Samus losing her Dark Samus alt in the Demo is a big factor, when it holds no weight, since Ridley's confirmed Meta Ridley alt was nowhere to be found in the Demo, either. Dark Samus is possible, but I think people are overselling her.

Since you brought it up, I wanted to talk about the Meta Ridley counterpoint as I feel it has its own issues worth discussing.

While that definitely is possible that the absence of it could mean more costumes for other characters or at least Ridley himself, there are other possible scenarios for why that could be outside of that. Firstly, we have to consider that the Meta Ridley costume is much more unique then the color scheme that are missing currently such as Fire Mario and Dark Samus. Meta Ridley requires more detail going into it such as the armor, the chestplate, the wings, and other such things, so it not being able to be available at the time while the color swaps are makes sense since they could need time to tweak it. By comparison, the other color schemes that are missing are color swaps, and not only that, but they were also present in the previous game, so them being missing for the same reasons as Meta Ridley doesn't make as much sense as they wouldn't require as much effort.

Secondly, it's heavily implied that at least some characters are sticking to the eight costume ceiling as Villager and Inkling in the Smash presentation were shown and distinctly stated to have eight costume choices. Nothing about their scenario shows that they will definitely get more, and that would be in line with what we've seen in the previous game where predominately the characters only had eight costumes, and that lends more credence to the idea that at least the majority of characters will only have eight alts rather then getting more then what they had in the previous game. Plus, even though Ridley could have more, that doesn't mean he's indicative of the other characters having more, Little Mac was an exception to the eight costume rule in Smash 4 and Wario was an exception to the four costume rule in Brawl. So even if Ridley does get more then eight costumes, that doesn't mean the others will, it could just mean Ridley got a little lucky.

Now, that's not to say that Dark Samus will be playable, there are other reasons for why it could be missing that don't result in that happening (ex. Sakurai just wanted a new dark color scheme). However, just like there are other reasons for Dark Samus' alt being missing that can result in her not being playable, there are multiple reasons for why Meta Ridley's alt could be missing that doesn't result in more then eight costumes for Samus or other characters. Meta Ridley's case could be the exception to the rule, or it may not even be an exception and we just have a placeholder, either way there's not an conclusive answer to the costume's situation, and due to that we have to consider that using it as a counterexample comes with its own woes that may not allow it to be fully indicative of what's going on with the missing SSB4 costumes.

 

[---]

As a side note, I hope Mute City (3DS) comes back.

Yeah, the earlier games are starting to get... somewhat niche.

Why don't we pull from the SNES, GB, GBA and Gamecube eras instead for "Retro characters"?

Did you just call the NES "niche?" Man I wish that was the case. I would save so much $$$$.

Much of it just depends on whether or not Sakurai goes back to the tried & true list of Assist Trophies. Golden Sun, Starfy, Chibi-Robo, Custom Robo, Wars, and Panel de Pon are probably the standouts. There might be a Wii franchise I'm forgetting, but I'm betting Sakurai is satisfied with WFT.

You say that, but they held the ballot for a reason.

What retro characters do you think would have made a notable impact on the ballot?

 

[BeardyBennett]

As a side note, I hope Mute City (3DS) comes back.



Did you just call the NES "niche?" Man I wish that was the case. I would save so much $$$$.

Much of it just depends on whether or not Sakurai goes back to the tried & true list of Assist Trophies. Golden Sun, Starfy, Chibi-Robo, Custom Robo, Wars, and Panel de Pon are probably the standouts. There might be a Wii franchise I'm forgetting, but I'm betting Sakurai is satisfied with WFT.



What retro characters do you think would have made a notable impact on the ballot?

I would lose my mind if we got a Custom Robo rep. Game desperately needs a sequel, my second favorite game of all-time. Chibi-Robo would be great too. Haven't played the games though. What kind of moveset would it have?

 

[RandomAce]

It's because the NES era shaped not just specific genres, but the industry itself, it's not as much because of popularity or nostalgia as is the case with Gen 1's influence on Pokémon, it's also about representing video game history. Sakurai is a video game freak beyond the usual, so obviously he'll have a huge appreciation for that era, and unlike a lot of us he doesn't have nostalgia for the video game generations that came in between the retro and modern periods, so if they didn't make an impact on the industry or came up with huge innovations then they likely didn't make an impact on him either. Then there's also the fact that Nintendo's most iconic franchises and characters came into existence during this period, and considering how much they depend on those established franchises it's not so odd that there aren't as many iconic characters that have been created since.

I fully understand why there's such a big focus on that era, and I also think Sakurai has been right to focus on it so much, but it's also beginning to thin out a little bit as most of the most iconic characters from that era are in now (except Toad, sorry little guy). I don't think it's going to lead to them including characters from other eras though, but they're more likely to just double down on relevant characters instead.

It comes to show that Nintendo doesn’t try to improve upon the franchises they have and only focus on their old ones.

Up until recently they began pushing niche franchises to become more mainstream like Fire Emblem and Xenoblade. However back in the early 2000’s, franchises like Chibi Robo or Golden Sun who have had the qualities to actually becomes bigger (the former for the extremely likable setting and characters, and the latter for successful sales despite being a fresh new IP) weren’t even used at all for their already flagship franchises.

The Wii U, was the worst offender of them all and the optiomy of Nintendo’s mindset. They were greedy and lazy and thought that just because it had the word Wii in it, it would sell. Thankfully it failed horribly and actually sent them a message that people wanted innovation and something new, instead of rehashing the old series that have been milked to death. That’s why the Switch was so succesful, that’s why Nintendo started pushing the likes of Xenoblade and Fire Emblem, that’s why they are marketing a lot better. They learned from past mistakes during the Wii U era and are putting effort in order to compete with their competitors, with the Switch being a hybrid of handheld and console that should’ve been something since the Wii U, that I’m grateful they came up with and made a reality.

Hopefully we get to see more new IPs being made which is apparent by Monolith Soft’s brand new project and Daimo X Machima as well as some past ones being brought back to life for this era. There’s a lot of potential to showcase series that people have never heard of to become fans of those series and one of the first things that comes to mind to help push that is Smash.

The ballot is sort of an emphasis on this since it’s purpose is to show Sakurai characters he probably might have not considered but are being pushed by the fans. Hopefully GS, AW, and SP get the representation they deserve, and Issac gets in as a newcomer.

 

[KMDP]

As a side note, I hope Mute City (3DS) comes back.



Did you just call the NES "niche?" Man I wish that was the case. I would save so much $$$$.

Much of it just depends on whether or not Sakurai goes back to the tried & true list of Assist Trophies. Golden Sun, Starfy, Chibi-Robo, Custom Robo, Wars, and Panel de Pon are probably the standouts. There might be a Wii franchise I'm forgetting, but I'm betting Sakurai is satisfied with WFT.



What retro characters do you think would have made a notable impact on the ballot?

Sorry, I meant that after all the NES-era and earlier characters they already have () the pickings are becoming slim (and therefore "niche").

About the ballot bit, depends on what you mean by "Retro".

EDIT: I agree with you on Mute City (3DS).

 

[prowler12]

Sorry, I meant that after all the NES-era and earlier characters they already have () the pickings are becoming slim (and therefore "niche").

About the ballot bit, depends on what you mean by "Retro".

EDIT: I agree with you on Mute City (3DS).

game and watch is not NES it is game and watch

 

[ThyCheshireCat]

game and watch is not NES it is game and watch

They said it's NES and earlier.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

in regards to NES characters: why the heck does everything have to be "relevant"

this is a fanserivce platform fighter with over 70 characters (if we count, say, the koopaling and alph alts), not Nintendo's baking soda of relevancy

and for that matter, no, it does not have to sell well to be a good idea for Smash. Fire Emblem's promotion pretty much started in Smash, and same with many other series.

okay that's a small vent from me. ya'll go back to doing you

 

[Blargg888]

game and watch is not NES it is game and watch

He said "NES-era and earlier"

G&W classifies under the "and earlier" part of that.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I
Also, who's da wise guy who pranked me!?

And not me?!

Was there ever anything that came out of the guy who posted the pick with Meteos characters? It was one of the more interesting pic "leaks" and I thought they said they would post more.

 

[BeardyBennett]

It comes to show that Nintendo doesn’t try to improve upon the franchises they have and only focus on their old ones.

Up until recently they began pushing niche franchises to become more mainstream like Fire Emblem and Xenoblade. However back in the early 2000’s, franchises like Chibi Robo or Golden Sun who have had the qualities to actually becomes bigger (the former for the extremely likable setting and characters, and the latter for successful sales despite being a fresh new IP) weren’t even used at all for their already flagship franchises.

The Wii U, was the worst offender of them all and the optiomy of Nintendo’s mindset. They were greedy and lazy and thought that just because it had the word Wii in it, it would sell. Thankfully it failed horribly and actually sent them a message that people wanted innovation and something new, instead of rehashing the old series that have been milked to death. That’s why the Switch was so succesful, that’s why Nintendo started pushing the likes of Xenoblade and Fire Emblem, that’s why they are marketing a lot better. They learned from past mistakes during the Wii U era and are putting effort in order to compete with their competitors, with the Switch being a hybrid of handheld and console that should’ve been something since the Wii U, that I’m grateful they came up with and made a reality.

Hopefully we get to see more new IPs being made which is apparent by Monolith Soft’s brand new project and Daimo X Machima as well as some past ones being brought back to life for this era. There’s a lot of potential to showcase series that people have never heard of to become fans of those series and one of the first things that comes to mind to help push that is Smash.

The ballot is sort of an emphasis on this since it’s purpose is to show Sakurai characters he probably might have not considered but are being pushed by the fans. Hopefully GS, AW, and SP get the representation they deserve, and Issac gets in as a newcomer.

Nintendo should have a ballot to gauge interest in what IPs fans want to see new games of. Like Mario Tennis Aces is cool and all, but ultimately I'd rather the time spent on it and the terrible WiiU tennis games had been spent on Custom Robo, F-Zero, Golden Sun, Chibi Robo, maybe a Mischief Makers sequel, hell why not a new take on Ice Climbers (a platformer-RPG hybrid would be neat, js)

 

[BluePikmin11]

If there were Gameboy and SNES retro representation in Ultimate, Prince of Sable and Lip would be ideal choices!

 

[RandomAce]

Nintendo should have a ballot to gauge interest in what IPs fans want to see new games of. Like Mario Tennis Aces is cool and all, but ultimately I'd rather the time spent on it and the terrible WiiU tennis games had been spent on Custom Robo, F-Zero, Golden Sun, Chibi Robo, maybe a Mischief Makers sequel, he'll why not a new take on Ice Climbers (a platformer-RPG hybrid would be neat, js)

They tried with F-Zero.

The team that were requested do the project weren’t able to do it because they had their hand’s filled, if they made the F-Zero game then F-Zero’s latest appearance could’ve been in 2013. :’(

But, the ballot would most likley be used for other stuff from Nintendo. How much, we’re not sure. The ballot only had 1.8 million votes, which is big but a lot smaller than the 18 million and even 25 million possible switch owners.

If there were Gameboy and SNES retro representation in Ultimate, Prince of Sable and Lip would be ideal choices!

Much rather have King K. Rool, sorry Blue.

Also if we’re getting a retro, Ayumi anyone? Plz.

 

[Mc.Rad]

I think that somebody should try to analyze data and try to speculate what the tier list may be... I think that may be a fun project for people to do

 

[BeardyBennett]

If there were Gameboy and SNES retro representation in Ultimate, Prince of Sable and Lip would be ideal choices!

Or maybe Crono/Geno for SNES? That'd be pretty neat

 

[Rie Sonomura]

They tried with F-Zero.

The team weren’t able to do it because they had their hand’s filled, if they made the F-Zero game then F-Zero’s latest appearance could’ve been in 2013. :’(

And that would have been GX’s 10th anniversary too...

Can I have an article for that? I remember reading something like it somewhere but I lost the source.

 

[BeardyBennett]

They tried with F-Zero.

The team weren’t able to do it because they had their hand’s filled, if they made the F-Zero game then F-Zero’s latest appearance could’ve been in 2013. :’(

Well that makes me sad. I just want GX-esque gameplay/story with the Japan game's track editor on the Switch. Maybe a machine designer mode too.

 

[NeonBurrito]

Like Mario Tennis Aces is cool and all, but ultimately I'd rather the time spent on it and the terrible WiiU tennis games had been spent on Custom Robo, F-Zero, Golden Sun, Chibi Robo, maybe a Mischief Makers sequel, hell why not a new take on Ice Climbers (a platformer-RPG hybrid would be neat, js)

You do understand that developers develop games to make profit, yes?

I can guarantee you that Mario Tennis Aces, and any Mario sports title for the matter, is going to make significantly more profit than a new F-Zero or Golden Sun, whether you like it or not. Not everything is a passion project.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

I think a "retro" character is still very likely for Ultimate, simply because I believe that Sakurai has a lot of fun creating these types of characters. Since these characters often lack a defined personality, Sakurai is able to take extensive creative liberties to recreate them when introduced into smash, basically its the closest Sakurai can get to creating OC characters for smash bros.

Smash bros. introduced the whole battle duo and ice bending elements to the characters
a conglomeration of the whole g&m console, there was no character named mr. game and watch before melee, so he's basically a smash original character.
Completely redisgned by Sakurai
Introduced the concept of the duck, dog, and light gun working together in one character, paired them with other zapper games.

 

[RandomAce]

Whoops, posting error.

I think a "retro" character is still very likely for Ultimate, simply because I believe that Sakurai has a lot of fun creating these types of characters. Since these characters often lack a defined personality, Sakurai is able to take extensive creative liberties to recreate them when introduced into smash, basically its the closest Sakurai can get to creating OC characters for smash bros.

Smash bros. introduced the whole battle duo and ice bending elements to the characters
a conglomeration of the whole g&m console, there was no character named mr. game and watch before melee, so he's basically a smash original character.
Completely redisgned by Sakurai
Introduced the concept of the duck, dog, and light gun working together in one character, paired them with other zapper games.

It’s clear that Sakurai puts a lot of creativity into these characters. That’s why I also think we’ll get a retro (and I want/hope for Ayumi) it isn’t for some arbitrary quota, it’s just that Sakurai seems to really like using wacky ideas while using retro characters, as it seems to have a pool of a ton potential.

It seems that Sakurai limits himself though as it is seen with Takamaru and Ayumi due to unfamiliarity.

 

[BeardyBennett]

You do understand that developers develop games to make profit, yes?

I can guarantee you that Mario Tennis Aces, and any Mario sports title for the matter, is going to make significantly more profit than a new F-Zero or Golden Sun, whether you like it or not. Not everything is a passion project.

Well-aware my dude. Just saying, it would be cool to see them try and push some smaller franchises again (like FE and kind of DK now since it dropped off in the GameCube era)

 

[DJ3DS]

I think that somebody should try to analyze data and try to speculate what the tier list may be... I think that may be a fun project for people to do

This is a hopeless errand given that over half of the roster have around 20 seconds of footage available.

The best anyone can realistically hope to do for any non-demo character is discuss any changes highlighted in their intro video.

 

[Mc.Rad]

This is a hopeless errand given that over half of the roster have around 20 seconds of footage available.

The best anyone can realistically hope to do for any non-demo character is discuss any changes highlighted in their intro video.

Or by descriptions for the videos on the official site.

 

[KMDP]

in regards to NES characters: why the heck does everything have to be "relevant"

this is a fanserivce platform fighter with over 70 characters (if we count, say, the koopaling and alph alts), not Nintendo's baking soda of relevancy

and for that matter, no, it does not have to sell well to be a good idea for Smash. Fire Emblem's promotion pretty much started in Smash, and same with many other series.

okay that's a small vent from me. ya'll go back to doing you

K. Rool, Isaac and Geno aren't relevant, there are lots of people who want them.

Lyn also isn't technically relevant; there are people (like me, for instance) who are hoping for the miracle of miracles that Sakurai will upgrade some Assist Trophies.

One could consider, for this Smash at least, "relevancy" to be a meaningless buzzword.

As I said in this post yesterday, "Recency goes out the window when Fanservice is the name of the game".

 

[BeardyBennett]

K. Rool, Isaac and Geno aren't relevant, there are lots of people who want them.

Lyn also isn't technically relevant; there are people (like me, for instance) who are hoping for the miracle of miracles that Sakurai will upgrade some Assist Trophies.

One could consider, for this Smash at least, "relevancy" to be a meaningless buzzword.

I mean even with SM4SH, Pac-Man and Duck Hunt sure as hell weren't "relevant". Nor were Ice Climbers or G&W for Melee

 

[RandomAce]

K. Rool, Isaac and Geno aren't relevant, there are lots of people who want them.

Lyn also isn't technically relevant; there are people (like me, for instance) who are hoping for the miracle of miracles that Sakurai will upgrade some Assist Trophies.

One could consider, for this Smash at least, "relevancy" to be a meaningless buzzword.

It’s not as much for this game tbh.

Aside from Xenoblade X, Gen 7, and Rhythm Heaven, it seems it’s mostly up to characters from the ballot and a retro character that Sakurai wants to use to let his ideas go wild with.

 

[UltraDude20]

That’s not how a newcomer works...he’s still a simple vet
)

Yeah that's probably true anyways I personally find a character different when that kind of thing happens. I'd be surprised to see a Star Fox newcomer.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

K. Rool, Isaac and Geno aren't relevant, there are lots of people who want them.

Lyn also isn't technically relevant; there are people (like me, for instance) who are hoping for the miracle of miracles that Sakurai will upgrade some Assist Trophies.

One could consider, for this Smash at least, "relevancy" to be a meaningless buzzword.

As I said in this post yesterday, "Recency goes out the window when Fanservice is the name of the game".

Could not agree more with your last part.

Yes but with K. Rool, Isaac, and Geno, I do see relevancy (or other silly arguments) being thrown around. It gets particularly silly with characters that showcase a game with nothing else to go for. Comparing Geno and K. Rool? Sure I guess. Comparing Isaac and K. Rool? That's a whole different story

It’s not as much for this game tbh.

Aside from Xenoblade X, Gen 7, and Rhythm Heaven, it seems it’s mostly up to characters from the ballot and a retro character that Sakurai wants to use to let his ideas go wild with.

small pet peeve but: there's a lot of information Nintendo has to gauge at what characters are popular, and the Ballot wasn't the first time a smash poll was done.

The ballot isn't the end all be all, and it's not the only place we should be looking.

 

[BeardyBennett]

and a retro character that Sakurai wants to use to let his ideas go wild with.

So you're saying Mr. Gimmick confirmed?

 

[RandomAce]

Could not agree more with your last part.

Yes but with K. Rool, Isaac, and Geno, I do see relevancy (or other silly arguments) being thrown around. It gets particularly silly with characters that showcase a game with nothing else to go for. Comparing Geno and K. Rool? Sure I guess. Comparing Isaac and K. Rool? That's a whole different story


small pet peeve but: there's a lot of information Nintendo has to gauge at what characters are popular, and the Ballot wasn't the first time a smash poll was done.

The ballot isn't the end all be all, and it's not the only place we should be looking.

I do wonder though what are the other places we should be looking at.

The ballot has a lot of information of what could be likely to enter the battle.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I think that somebody should try to analyze data and try to speculate what the tier list may be... I think that may be a fun project for people to do

There are a lot of reasons this is really hard to do.

The most obvious is that we don't have enough data to even begin to judge most of the characters. The 36 characters not in the demo we have about 20 seconds of footage each on, and of course there are probably a few unannounced newcomers about which we know literally nothing. Every smash game continually reminds us of how one character can have a huge impact on the meta, and it's pretty likely characters like that lurk in the group of characters we just don't know much about.

The demo is of course not final, and some things that seem not final in terms of even basic mechanics would shape the list. Like the thing where you can't run through shields sucks really badly for Sonic. We think it's a bug, but if somehow it's in the final release, that will take him down a peg as it completely removes his ability to run through a shield and pivot grab which is a major tool for Sonic especially in a world where it's less safe to repeatedly spin.

Honestly a lot of characters in the demo weren't really done justice either. Ice Climbers are probably the best example. Almost every ICs player in the demo just loses, but then again, how could they win? They aren't using desyncs properly at all even though it's extremely visibly obvious ICs have those full capabilities in Ultimate, and they don't really seem to have even worked out the new properties of most of the ICs moveset which is double important on that character because it's the kind of character wherein sloppy play separates Nana and thus sets you up for a horrible situation. Of course, they couldn't really avoid that; you need time in the lab to avoid that, but the result is a lot of people saying they think ICs look like a really bad character when if you really think about what you're seeing and why all of the ICs players in the demo lose that's not clear at all so much as it's clear "you can't possibly figure out ICs in a demo setting". Even beyond weird characters, there's just the raw differences. For every 20 Pokemon Trainer matches, you can find 1 Pac-Man match if you're lucky. How good is Pac-Man in the demo? Well, he's buffed, and no one is quite sure exactly how much or how much it matters because almost no one even played him...

It's not to say we don't have some character quality speculation we can do. Based on what I saw in the demo, I have high confidence in Pikachu, Pokemon Trainer, Marth, and Ike. They could still be nerfed before release of course, but those four characters were just so good in the demo in a lot of basic, obvious ways that it's hard to see that not holding up into release if they're just left alone. Basically all of the characters who were top characters in 4 still seemed good, mostly toned down but not nearly enough to really change the story from a naive viewpoint. That was mostly good news for Mario, Sonic, Bayonetta, Cloud, and Sheik. I also was specifically impressed with DK and Snake; DK got large buffs and Snake seemed to transition well from Brawl which is a big thing since Snake was a top character in Brawl. Hopefully you see the problem already. This is a list of 11 characters who look promising in a demo of 30, and it's not to say that the other 19 characters look bad because a lot of them are promising in their own ways (like there's a real buzz for Little Mac in a lot of circles) or are the characters like Pac-Man or Pit that just weren't getting picked as much. Clearly things are going to break down more than this and some characters that appear good now, even if they don't get nerfed before release, are not going to work out because too much looks good now to possibly hold up in a more mature metagame.

I do think talking about the various qualities of the characters in the demo is a fun and relatively useful exercise (not like actually useful but relative to blind guessing who the newcomers will be), but we just have to be aware that our knowledge level here is really low and most of what we can figure out won't really be true when the game comes out so it's more about just having a starting point on day 1 than anything. The main starting point I figured out for me as a player is "I need to play Pokemon Trainer as soon as possible to figure him out for myself", not super great from a data perspective but better than nothing.

 

[P.Kat]

https://sega.jp/special/sega-vote/list.html#segaVote04

Shadow won 2nd place in fav character poll behind sonic

im surprised the puyo puyo witch won in puyo side. wasnt aware she was so popular in japan

Goro and scottish fold cats makes sense lol

No sign of Blaze? Yikes. *Singing* Hello darkness my old friend...

Lyn also isn't technically relevant; there are people (like me, for instance) who are hoping for the miracle of miracles that Sakurai will upgrade some Assist Trophies

Yeah, your not alone on that, that's for sure.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

As far as Galacta Knight goes, I think he still has enough visual distinctions, like the angel wings, horns, lance, and shield.

I just don't think they would have gone out of their way to add the scar in the middle of his mask if Galacta Knight was a playable fighter. Also he uses a spear, and it might seem a little weird to have him use it like a sword. Also as an echo he would have a shield that he wouldn't be able to utilize.

 

[KMDP]

It’s not as much for this game tbh.

Aside from Xenoblade X, Gen 7, and Rhythm Heaven, it seems it’s mostly up to characters from the ballot and a retro character that Sakurai wants to use to let his ideas go wild with.

If there were only relevant characters, we might not have gotten Ridley.

We'd only have Inkling, Daisy, Elma, a Gen 7 Pokémon, a Rhythm Heaven and... Dillon, maybe?

Some people would accept that, obviously.

Could not agree more with your last part.

Yes but with K. Rool, Isaac, and Geno, I do see relevancy (or other silly arguments) being thrown around. It gets particularly silly with characters that showcase a game with nothing else to go for. Comparing Geno and K. Rool? Sure I guess. Comparing Isaac and K. Rool? That's a whole different story


small pet peeve but: there's a lot of information Nintendo has to gauge at what characters are popular, and the Ballot wasn't the first time a smash poll was done.

The ballot isn't the end all be all, and it's not the only place we should be looking.

Nintendo has:

• all previous Smash Ballots
• any poll done by their subsidiaries (e.g. the "Choose Your Legend" Fire Emblem Polls)
• sales figures dating back to the very start of the company
• Letters and E-mails personally sent to the company
• Google trends
• What's trending on Twitter

And more, to determine Smash Characters.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Yeah that's probably true anyways I personally find a character different when that kind of thing happens. I'd be surprised to see a Star Fox newcomer.

Speaking of Star Fox, I honestly wonder about one potential factor that could possibly lead to a roster upgrade (that is, if they ever consider doing that again for Star Fox). While the SNES Mini's success and the resurgence of Star Fox 2 are too recent to consider bringing either of its exclusive characters into Ultimate, Krystal on the other hand hasn't really made any appearances since Command, as Zero was a reboot, leading to her current position as an AT. Depending on how things go, Miyu and/or Fay might get added as Star Fox reps over Krystal.

Then again, for all we know, Sakurai could for some silly reason decide to add Slippy's uncle Grippy instead, so nothing is certain.

 

[BeardyBennett]

If there were only relevant characters, we might not have gotten Ridley.

We'd only have Inkling, Daisy, Elma, a Gen 7 Pokémon, a Rhythm Heaven and... Dillon, maybe?

Some people would accept that, obviously.

Nintendo has:

• all previous Smash Ballots
• any poll done by their subsidiaries (e.g. the "Choose Your Legend" Fire Emblem Polls)
• sales figures dating back to the very start of the company
• Letters and E-mails personally sent to the company
• Google trends
• What's trending on Twitter

And more, to determine Smash Characters.

I will say Ridley is extremely relevant, especially with Prime 4 coming allegedly next year.

 

[Deleted member]

I honestly don't think relevance matters for any Smash characters. IMO, no character is too new or too irrelevant. It all comes down to two things:

1. Does this character fit Sakurai's vision for the game?
2. Does Nintendo themselves want the character in?

There are many characters that have disproved the "They're too new!" rule. There are many that have disproved the "They're too old/irrelevant!" rule. Honestly, I don't think Smash games have any special "rules" for who gets in. I don't think there's any kind of science to it, I think it pretty much just comes down to what Sakurai and Nintendo want at the given time, lol.

 

[Mc.Rad]

If there were only relevant characters, we might not have gotten Ridley.

We'd only have Inkling, Daisy, Elma, a Gen 7 Pokémon, a Rhythm Heaven and... Dillon, maybe?

Some people would accept that, obviously.

Nintendo has:

• all previous Smash Ballots
• any poll done by their subsidiaries (e.g. the "Choose Your Legend" Fire Emblem Polls)
• sales figures dating back to the very start of the company
• Letters and E-mails personally sent to the company
• Google trends
• What's trending on Twitter

And more, to determine Smash Characters.

So does this mean that the more we meme the more a character means to them?

 

[Arcanir]

I do wonder though what are the other places we should be looking at.

The ballot has a lot of information of what could be likely to enter the battle.

IIRC, Nintendo's Nate Bihldorff said that they do monitor what fans are saying on Nintendo forums, so more then likely they're also aware of what characters we're talking about and which ones strike the biggest cord with the crowd. That's part of the reason why Ridley was known to be popular as the staff at Treehouse let Sakurai know why he was such a big deal for the western fanbase. Other places like the aforementioned Twitter is also a good example since they can monitor how much a character is trending among the fanbase.

Another possible area we could be looking through would be promotion as if Nintendo is pushing a character heavily, then evidently they see the character as popular enough to warrant that status. Isabelle is a good example of that as she blew up a lot after New Leaf and has been pushed extensively across Nintendo's multiple mediums. Ashley is another example as she's been pushed more notably in recent years, so somewhere along the lines the character proved herself to be worthwhile for Nintendo to use more prominently.

I will say Ridley is extremely relevant, especially with Prime 4 coming allegedly next year.

Considering we don't even know if Ridley will even be in Prime 4, we can't assume that'd be the case. He was in Samus Returns, but considering we've gotten no content from the game yet, it's entirely possible it slipped under the radar and may be this game's Prime 3.