Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[N3ON]

I exaggerated a bit to make my point, but it's still proven - If we had no Brawl era to go with, Villager (though, sales), Mega Man, Pac-Man, and Bowser Jr. probably wouldn't be on the roster.

I don't know... I think we'd still get all four. If any had to go, I guess Mega Man, since he was tied directly to the Brawl poll iirc. But honestly if they were still popular or prolific for more than one "era" it seems kinda disingenuous to relegate them to one specific timeframe. It's not like any of these characters experienced a steep drop in merit after Brawl.

In fact in Pac-Man's case I think it probably wasn't until Namco jumped on board that he went from a name tossed around (internally - externally he was lighting no fan polls on fire) to a reality. That's my guess.

also a lot of new games happened in-between brawl and 4 compared to 4 and ult so...

I agree but I'm not saying don't look at the ballot, I'm just saying don't only look at the ballot. If, say, Isaac was requested years ago (which he was) the devs aren't going to suddenly go "well nobody's asking for him now so people don't want him"; they're gonna have him on the radar because "wait didn't people ask for this guy at some point?"

(Granted, if his support stayed consistent that surely would have helped)

ALSO, to add: Bomberman and Krystal, popular Brawl requests, did at least make it into this game. Not as playable, but the point still stands.

It's funny because I actually agree with your point, for the most part. I don't know how much popularity since 2016 onward will even matter. I think the latest they'd look is at the ballot results... I just think the ballot results are going to play a bigger part than even like... 2013-era popularity.

Bets are off for DLC ofc, but that's a bridge to cross later.

I’m not expecting that many either, but it gets harder to narrow it down the more and more you play with it.

Celica is really just a FE place holder, I have no idea who from the series will appeal to Sakurai.

If honorable mentions were actually on the CSS, it would just be a picture of Waluigi crying.

Guess it's comes down to whether you're going more for fanservice or realism. On the roster there are always some omissions that seem glaring, but in reality... you just can't keep everyone.

Also just stick Edelgard on there instead. We might not get her but she's def more likely than Celica for an addition in 2020.

Sakurai deserves to give Chrom an apology. Sakurai decided to be a smart as and make fun of Chrom in Smash 4 for basically being unoriginal and not fitting Ike's moveset.

Fast foward and we have Daisy who floats, throws turnips, and has a parisol(All which don't fit). I guess he must have changed his mind about adding clones that "Don't fit"

I think people have the wrong idea about Chrom. People act like he's the only character that's ever been planned then scrapped. Frankly, Sakurai gave Chrom by far the most "consolation" attention out of any scrapped character. You don't see the Forbidden 7 with notable roles in Brawl, do you? There's barely any trace of Rhythm Heaven in Smash 4. But Chrom played his part in a trailer, and was incorporated into a Final Smash, and was made a costume.

I think Sakurai really tried to give Chrom fans something, it just wasn't playability. But it's more than most non-playable characters get. And you know what, I think he made the completely right call picking Robin over Chrom. Robin might be less popular, but he's so much more distinct.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

Add in Simon Belmont and that's pretty much my prediction. Maybe Rayman or Banjo too

I have Rayman in there, but Banjo most likely will appear as dlc rather than base game. And I didn't include Simon Belmont because he isn't as likely as the others and Sakurai said to expect less this time. But then again, who knows? Not too many could easily mean ten new fighters, considering how many we got in brawl and smash 4.

 

[KMDP]

Sakurai said to expect less this time

No, he didn't. He said:

I hope you aren't expecting too many newcomers this time.

How many is too many? We don't know, and we won't know until the game releases.
"Expect less" and "Don't expect too many" are completely different statements. One is specific and the other is vague.

 

[KingIceSonic]

I think people have the wrong idea about Chrom. People act like he's the only character that's ever been planned then scrapped. Frankly, Sakurai gave Chrom by far the most "consolation" attention out of any scrapped character. You don't see the Forbidden 7 with notable roles in Brawl, do you? There's barely any trace of Rhythm Heaven in Smash 4. But Chrom played his part in a trailer, and was incorporated into a Final Smash, and was made a costume.

I think Sakurai really tried to give Chrom fans something, it just wasn't playability. But it's more than most non-playable characters get. And you know what, I think he made the completely right call picking Robin over Chrom. Robin might be less popular, but he's so much more distinct.

Sakurai gave Chrom fans less than something, he basically thrashed the character and made him look insignificant IMO. Sakurai already has a track record for trolling his fans and purposely trying to trigger some of the fanbases. Look at Waluigi, he KNOWS that fans wanted him and decided to show him being KO'd just for the Lols

I rather a character just be deconfirmed normally rather than having Sakurai say "Your character wasn't original enough for me, he doesn't even deserve to be a clone." While I do agree that Robin was a better choice I don't like the way Sakurai did it.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

How many is too many? We don't know, and we won't know until the game releases.
"Expect less" and "Don't expect too many" are completely different statements. One is specific and the other is vague.

Expecting less is exactly what people are doing when they are told not to expect too many though. But you're right. We really don't know how many there will be until release.

 

[BrytonJ]

Just a random thought: I think all star mode might mean fighting each group of characters based on which smash game they were introduced in. That'd kind of make sense right? You would end up fighting everyone in numerical order which they seem to be all about this time and also going through smash bros history which also seems like a big emphasis. Not saying this would necessarily be good or bad, I don't think I've ever really cared that much how all star is organized, just saying I can see them doing it that way.

 

[KMDP]

Expecting less is exactly what people are doing when they are told not to expect too many though. But you're right. We really don't know how many there will be until release.

I will add that if Sakurai meant "You should expect less newcomers than normal" that's what he would have said.

He actually said the exact same thing in the run-up to Smash 4 in a Famitsu column ("I'm hoping fans aren't expecting too many new fighters", or something to that effect), we got + in the Base Game.

I'm almost entirely certain it was a preemptive measure to prevent runaway hype, as in: "OHMYGODTHISISGOINGTOBETHEBESTSMASHGAMEEVERANDHAVELIKETWENTYNEWGUYSINIT!!!!!"; and I actually think people are over-tempering their expectations this time around.

I think the cause is that this is the first time Sakurai has actually come out and said it directly to the audience *Iwata Hand Gesture*; which is something more casual fans aren't used to, but it's actually a thought he has every game.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

I will add that if Sakurai meant "You should expect less newcomers than normal" that's what he would have said.

He actually said the exact same thing in the run-up to Smash 4 in a Famitsu column ("I'm hoping fans aren't expecting too many new fighters", or something to that effect), we got + in the Base Game.

I'm almost entirely certain it was a preemptive measure to prevent runaway hype, as in: "OHMYGODTHISISGOINGTOBETHEBESTSMASHGAMEEVERANDHAVELIKETWENTYNEWGUYSINIT!!!!!"; and I actually think people are over-tempering their expectations this time around.

I think the cause is that this is the first time Sakurai has actually come out and said it directly to the audience *Iwata Hand Gesture*; which is something more casual fans aren't used to, but it's actually a thought he has every game.

But with the main focus this time being returning features, I actually think there may be less this time around. But you never know with Sakurai.

 

[CodeBlue_]

All marketing material puts the echoes right next to the character they echo off of, and they share the same number. It's dumb, it's stupid, but it's almost certainly going to be that way on the CSS.

It certainly beats all of them (and Dr. Mario for whatever reason) being grouped together at the bottom of the CSS before Pac-Man and the like.

Seriously it was so disorienting having to choose Dark Pit so low on the CSS and then scroll up back to Pit if I wanted him (or Palutena) instead.

i like the Kid Icarus characters if you couldn't tell already

 

[Houndstooth]

Nothing whatsoever.

There was this, but it's nothing more than an Etch-a-Sketch drawing.

View attachment 153793

I have no clue what to make of it.

First off, these different puzzle leaks are so weird.

Hey guys, it's been a while since I posted here but I've always been a lurker.

I love riddles so I've been scratching my head around these drawings trying to find any kind of meaning... and I did.
Started with the one on the bottom left and I believe each one of these is supposed to be a newcomer, the one I started with meaning "Simon".
I'll work on the other ones now so give me a few minutes but TL;DR: there's a binary code hidden in there.

(It's probably fake and I'm wasting my time but I'm having fun. lol)

Spoiler: Explanation:

Secondly, dude, you are awesome. Great job on solving these.

And thirdly, do you think there is some guy working at Nintendo that has to be on top of these puzzle leaks? Like, they don't want any leaks to happen. But when a puzzle one shows up, do you think it is some person's job to solve it? Cause that would be such a weird, yet cool, job.

 

[RandomAce]

The thing about Pay-to-Win criticisms, and I don't entirely disagree with them, I think they need to do a much better job at balancing DLC than they have, but the flipside to the conversation is, if a DLC character is garbage, people will feel ripped off when they buy it. It's for that reason most competitive games with character DLC tend to err on the side of caution making them too powerful as opposed to not powerful enough.

SFV says hello.

Apparently people have been complaining about the DLC characters in that game being too weak compared to the base characters and a majority of the DLC characters are low to mid tier. (Juri is the worse character in the game and she’s DLC).

Really I think DLC should be in that middle spot, like high tier. Although having the DLC characters makes them overpowered, by making them too weak there isn’t an incentive to getting them unless you like the character to pay for the content they bring. It’s also why I sort of agree with Gilgamesh . Spring Man and Rex/Pyra aren’t really that wanted compared to many other characters people have been clamoring for, especially as DLC, if they aren’t strong, people aren’t going to buy them because they just don’t like the characters. However, having someone like Sora in as DLC will have people buy them regardless because of how much they love him, or Issac, or Lloyd, or even Andy since AW is considered memorable.

But to be real, Rex and Pyra and Spring Man are becoming more wanted by people, the former due to Xenoblade 2 and their characters and potential mechanics, and the latter due to his potential unique and fun looking possible fighting style.

 

[Zinith]

I don't think Smash needs to err on making the DLCs top tier in order to incentivize purchasing them. Smash isn't like other fighting games, they can sell the characters on their source material alone

 

[SmashingXan2]

I have Rayman in there, but Banjo most likely will appear as dlc rather than base game. And I didn't include Simon Belmont because he isn't as likely as the others and Sakurai said to expect less this time. But then again, who knows? Not too many could easily mean ten new fighters, considering how many we got in brawl and smash 4.

Sorry, I missed Rayman there, my bad

 

[Misery Brick]

Sakurai gave Chrom fans less than something, he basically thrashed the character and made him look insignificant IMO. Sakurai already has a track record for trolling his fans and purposely trying to trigger some of the fanbases. Look at Waluigi, he KNOWS that fans wanted him and decided to show him being KO'd just for the Lols

I rather a character just be deconfirmed normally rather than having Sakurai say "Your character wasn't original enough for me, he doesn't even deserve to be a clone." While I do agree that Robin was a better choice I don't like the way Sakurai did it.

I disagree with the idea he made Chrom seemed insignificant and that he "thrashed" the character. (Outside of Palutena's guidance, but that was more or less, as I see it, a joke for the fun of it given the majority aren't serious by nature.) After all, he's featured pretty heavily with Robin in both his victory screens and Final Smash, so at the very least he plays a pretty crucial role in some capacity while representing Awakening itself.
Also I think people are forgetting that echoes and semi-clones usually come towards the end of development, so I don't think he saw Daisy as "more worthy" than Chrom, it's just what became a result of development and what they could fit in. I also think he gave the clones the Echo Fighter title, just so people would stop giving him flack for them "taking up slots"
In my own honest opinion, as much as I like Chrom, I would prefer that we wouldn't have 3 out of 7 FE characters being clones. (Not to mention there being another blue haired sword wielder.)

 

[CodeBlue_]

KingIceSonic

WHAT IN HEAVEN'S NAME IS THAT ABOMINATION OF AN AVATAR

(btw I don't watch or support JonTron anymore. Just in case it comes up.)

 

[Idon]

We can argue if characters are wanted or not but the fact is,

Once they're in Smash, they'll BE wanted.
Forever.

Everyone is Here.

 

[GunBlaze]

KingIceSonic

WHAT IN HEAVEN'S NAME IS THAT ABOMINATION OF AN AVATAR

(btw I don't watch or support JonTron anymore. Just in case it comes up.)

Took the words outta my mouth.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

It won't be long until people will start "leaking" the roster to us through zodiac symbols.

 

[Opossum]

KingIceSonic

WHAT IN HEAVEN'S NAME IS THAT ABOMINATION OF AN AVATAR

(btw I don't watch or support JonTron anymore. Just in case it comes up.)

Thiccxie Kong, clearly.

 

[Zinith]

KingIceSonic

WHAT IN HEAVEN'S NAME IS THAT ABOMINATION OF AN AVATAR

(btw I don't watch or support JonTron anymore. Just in case it comes up.)

I'm ashamed to admit that I've seen that image beforehand

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Anything exciting happen today?

Or we just on the same old tired subjects?

 

[KMDP]

It won't be long until people will start "leaking" the roster to us through zodiac symbols.

I don't think we've had Braille yet.

I think one has been Morse Code?

 

[N3ON]

Sakurai gave Chrom fans less than something, he basically thrashed the character and made him look insignificant IMO. Sakurai already has a track record for trolling his fans and purposely trying to trigger some of the fanbases. Look at Waluigi, he KNOWS that fans wanted him and decided to show him being KO'd just for the Lols

I rather a character just be deconfirmed normally rather than having Sakurai say "Your character wasn't original enough for me, he doesn't even deserve to be a clone." While I do agree that Robin was a better choice I don't like the way Sakurai did it.

Giving a character a role in a trailer, a part of a moveset, an easter egg and a costume is not less than something. How many other non-playable characters got that? Even Ridley didn't get all that. If you think that's nothing I envy you; there are worse fates than Chrom's. You know how great it would be if I could get one of my most-wanted characters that much attention?

Don't let your malice cloud things, there's nothing to gain by thinking the worst of people.

 

[RandomAce]

It won't be long until people will start "leaking" the roster to us through zodiac symbols.

Ugh this wait is really killing me.

I also hate how I have to wait till winter to get the game, and I HATE winter.

Not to mention Murlough is starting to convince me to set my timer to October to get our first newcomers revealed, and I don’t want to wait 3 months for a next newcomer. Does anyone want to wait longer for another newcomer?

 

[ReeseBalaski]

Eventually, we'll have to do a Danganronpa level investigation and a Class Trial to decipher these leaks. Leaks that are probably fake at that.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I don't think we've had Braille yet.

Regi trio confirmed.

Get your bodies ready people, we're finally getting Hoen reps!

 

[Zinith]

Ugh this wait is really killing me.

I also hate how I have to wait till winter to get the game, and I HATE winter.

Not to mention Murlough is starting to convince me to set my timer to October to get our first newcomers revealed, and I don’t want to wait 3 months for a next newcomer. Does anyone want to wait longer for another newcomer?

You know, when it comes to newcomers I'm patient. It's more info on the VETERANS, especially my boi, that I'm hungry for...

 

[KMDP]

Eventually, we'll have to do a Danganronpa level investigation and a Class Trial to decipher these leaks. Leaks that are probably fake at that.

Just leaving these here for future use.

Just you wait, one of these leaks is going to turn out to be real, and it's going to be one people disregard for being too safe.

 

[BlondeLombax]

KingIceSonic

WHAT IN HEAVEN'S NAME IS THAT ABOMINATION OF AN AVATAR

Typical internet (most likely Deviantart) fare, watch some TRG or Grumps to wash the obesity away with hilarity.

 

[Idon]

"These character deconfirmations will be a stepping stone for hope hype!"

 

[WaxPython]

I still fully expect chrom and shadow to be in the game as echo fighters.

Simon Belmont as the retro character inclusion.

A new Pokemon rep maybe even two so a starter from the new gen and a legendary .

And Rayman as the surprise 3rd party hype inclusion.

Snake clones as eco fighters hopefully but I doubt it



Krystal 0 chance she has fallen into utter obscurity and is irrelevant.

I would love to see Lyn, Eliwood, and Hector in the game as echo fighters. But they're probably irrelevant now.

I don't see Phoenix Wright being in this game as he was already In a fighting game, I also don't want Waluigi in the game as I think he has a limited moveset and mario characters are the most boring imo.

Other than that I'm not expecting too much more, if I get at least those fighters I will be extremely happy with the game, also please buff Falco Sakurai considering how nerfed Fox is in smash ultimate.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I don't know... I think we'd still get all four. If any had to go, I guess Mega Man, since he was tied directly to the Brawl poll iirc. But honestly if they were still popular or prolific for more than one "era" it seems kinda disingenuous to relegate them to one specific timeframe. It's not like any of these characters experienced a steep drop in merit after Brawl.

In fact in Pac-Man's case I think it probably wasn't until Namco jumped on board that he went from a name tossed around (internally - externally he was lighting no fan polls on fire) to a reality. That's my guess.


It's funny because I actually agree with your point, for the most part. I don't know how much popularity since 2016 onward will even matter. I think the latest they'd look is at the ballot results... I just think the ballot results are going to play a bigger part than even like... 2013-era popularity.

Bets are off for DLC ofc, but that's a bridge to cross later.

pac-man was pretty requested to my memory; even to the point where Sakurai answered why he wasn't in Brawl (something about them stating it's a good idea and him being confused on how he'd moveset). i also forgot little mac there. That said, popularity didn't plummet, but think of it like Ridley: when people lost hope for him, things kinda withered quietly. Sure, nobody died off, but bar Mega Man, they were requests more rampant in that specific era.

That said, I think the main part to get here is I don't mean the reverse either. I don't think that Masked Man, Isaac, Geno, etc are suddenly shoo-ins (god it's been forever since I've been able to use that word in a context), I just think it means there's a good chance for a lot of popular requests, no matter the era, to appear in some form.

Heck, continuing off of this, instead of taking characters from just ballot period, why not take characters from any time overall? We capsule all those in and then look at what ways they could make the game.

Spoiler

honestly I'm just trying to reframe speculah because it's cycling around like the same five characters lol... not that I even blame anyone.

I will add that if Sakurai meant "You should expect less newcomers than normal" that's what he would have said.

He actually said the exact same thing in the run-up to Smash 4 in a Famitsu column ("I'm hoping fans aren't expecting too many new fighters", or something to that effect), we got + in the Base Game.

I'm almost entirely certain it was a preemptive measure to prevent runaway hype, as in: "OHMYGODTHISISGOINGTOBETHEBESTSMASHGAMEEVERANDHAVELIKETWENTYNEWGUYSINIT!!!!!"; and I actually think people are over-tempering their expectations this time around.

I think the cause is that this is the first time Sakurai has actually come out and said it directly to the audience *Iwata Hand Gesture*; which is something more casual fans aren't used to, but it's actually a thought he has every game.

i was around for brawl and... I honestly prefer tempering expectations over the freakishly unrealistic expectations we all had back in the day.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Sakurai deserves to give Chrom an apology. Sakurai decided to be a smart as and make fun of Chrom in Smash 4 for basically being unoriginal and not fitting Ike's moveset.

Fast foward and we have Daisy who floats, throws turnips, and has a parisol(All which don't fit). I guess he must have changed his mind about adding clones that "Don't fit"

We must have Viridi disrespect Chrom even more than before

 

[SmashingXan2]

I still fully expect chrom and shadow to be in the game as echo fighters.

Simon Belmont as the retro character inclusion.

A new Pokemon rep maybe even two so a starter from the new gen and a legendary .

And Rayman as the surprise 3rd party hype inclusion.

Snake clones as eco fighters hopefully but I doubt it



Krystal 0 chance she has fallen into utter obscurity and is irrelevant.

I would love to see Lyn, Eliwood, and Hector in the game as echo fighters. But they're probably irrelevant now.

I don't see Phoenix Wright being in this game as he was already In a fighting game, I also don't want Waluigi in the game as I think he has a limited moveset and mario characters are the most boring imo.

Other than that I'm not expecting too much more, if I get at least those fighters I will be extremely happy with the game, also please buff Falco Sakurai considering how nerfed Fox is in smash ultimate.

I think ballot results will play a big role in roster making, so I'm expecting King K Rool, and Ashley and Bandana Dee are very likely to me

 

[WaxPython]

I think ballot results will play a big role in roster making, so I'm expecting King K Rool, and Ashley and Bandana Dee are very likely to me

I thought that too but apparently bayonetta and cloud were in development before the ballot results. Maybe they're more of a guide.

But you're right I do except King K Rool to be in the game I'll edit my post.

 

[KMDP]

"These character deconfirmations will be a stepping stone for hope hype!"

Maybe if I buy enough bagels, my most wanted character will get into Smash. That's how it works, right?
I fully expect, like, only 5% of the people here will even get this reference. XD

i was around for brawl and... I honestly prefer tempering expectations over the freakishly unrealistic expectations we all had back in the day.

I, too, am guilty of the crime of unrealistic expectations. Forgive me, Sakurai, for I have sinned.

 

[Hinata]

"These character deconfirmations will be a stepping stone for hope hype!"

shut up komaeda

I, too, am guilty of the crime of unrealistic expectations. Forgive me, Sakurai, for I have sinned.

We're all guilty of it. We can't really help it. Smash just gets to us, man.

 

[KMDP]

We're all guilty of it. We can't really help it. Smash just gets to us, man.

Sakurai: *laughs*

 

[Capybara Gaming]

KingIceSonic

WHAT IN HEAVEN'S NAME IS THAT ABOMINATION OF AN AVATAR

(btw I don't watch or support JonTron anymore. Just in case it comes up.)

Gotta learn to seperate the artist from the work

So here's a question for everyone. If a Tales Of character gets in and it's NOT Lloyd, who would it be?

My bet's on Yuri Lowell from Tales of Vesperia. Though that may just be my desire to hear Fury Sparks in Smash acting up.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

There's a reason I try not to expect too much in new smash games.