Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[TMNTSSB4]

Oh! I never bothered to add up the DLC prices if you buy each fighter separately. Suprised to see that you save money from buying them all separately rather than through the bundle
Well, that's better at least. Still around $30, more than I'd like, but not quite as unfair. And you get some stages, unlike the bundle which gives no bonuses.

$30 worth of content that wasn’t intended at least. Ultimate DLC will most definitely have more new content, so who knows if it’ll be as fair as Smash 4.

 

[Dracyoshi]

I'm going to have to ask how you implement a character wielding a sword, a long disjointed weapon, without having long disjoints.

There are many types of swords, not all of them are long broadswords and claymores!

 

[Idon]

There are many types of swords, not all of them are long broadswords and claymores!

But what kind of sword isn't a blade with a handle?

Unless you make it so short it's a dagger, it's going to have a long disjointed hurty bit.

Rapiers? long disjoint
Falchions (the real kind, not Marth's sword)? long disjoint.
Khopeshes? long disjoint
Katanas? long disjoint.
etc etc.

By definition, a sword is made to have a long disjoint.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah, how DARE people spend money how they want to!

Honestly, I bought all the DLC myself. Mind you, just getting the stages and characters alone make sense. I just liked the Mii costumes too.

In the end, I love the fact everything can be purchased separately. Unless you yourself are running tournaments or using your version to help run them, there's no reason to get everything "just because". Or get nothing at all. It's cool to have the choice. Everybody has their preferences. Not everybody will like certain DLC. And the best part? That's fine! To each their own~

 

[Troykv]

But what kind of sword isn't a blade with a handle?

Unless you make it so short it's a dagger, it's going to have a long disjointed hurty bit.

Rapiers? long disjoint
Falchions (the real kind, not Marth's sword)? long disjoint.
Khopeshes? long disjoint
Katanas? long disjoint.
etc etc.

By definition, a sword is made to have a long disjoint.

Yeah; the sword essencially gives your range advantages and extra damage in the form of the weapon's edge.

 

[Dracyoshi]

But what kind of sword isn't a blade with a handle?

Unless you make it so short it's a dagger, it's going to have a long disjointed hurty bit.

Rapiers? long disjoint
Falchions (the real kind, not Marth's sword)? long disjoint.
Khopeshes? long disjoint
Katanas? long disjoint.
etc etc.

By definition, a sword is made to have a long disjoint.

Yes, I know. Swords are going to have disjoints. That's the point. I'm talking about long disjoints, like Ike, Corrin, Shulk and Cloud. Look at Toon Link and Young Link for swordfighters that I don't see as having long disjoints. It's possible. I imagine that a character wielding a falchion could easily just have an average disjoint range.

This shouldn't even be an argument, it's just semantics about what long is. Let's move on to something else.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Finally got all of them!

List form:
Inkling
Ridley
Decidueye
King K. Rool
Ashley
[Bandana] Waddle Dee
Simon Belmont
Rayman
"DLCBK" (I assume Banjo&Kazooie as DLC?)

Image form:

Spoiler: Full codes:

01001001 01001110 01001011 01001100 01000111 - INKLG
01010010 01001001 01000100 01001100 01011001 - RIDLY
01001010 01001110 01000001 01010000 01010010 - JNAPR
01001011 01010010 01001111 01001111 01001100 - KROOL
01000001 01010011 01001000 01001100 01011001 - ASHLY
01001001 01010011 01000001 01000001 01000011 - ISAAC
01010111 01000001 01000100 01000101 01000101 - WADEE
01010010 01000001 01011001 01001101 01001110 - RAYMN
01010011 01001001 01001101 01001111 01001110 - SIMON
01000100 01001100 01000011 01000010 01001011 - DLCBK

If anyone's wondering, this is the leak we're talking about: http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/424883081

This was fun.

look, i have absolutely no doubt that that this roster is going to have a ton of fanservice

But this much? now that's what i call safe

 

[SonicMario]

The only character DLC I considered skipping out on was Roy, and only because I just never really cared for him. But at least on the Wii U version my brother wanted to try him at the time Ryu, Lucas, and Roy released. Plus when I asked my Mom to pick up a $10 card where I would of only had enough money in my account to get Ryu and Lucas anyway, she surprised me with a $20 card and there wasn't really anything else I wanted at the time so I got Roy on both versions anyway. Still didn't play him much though beyond unlocking all his trophies and one run through Smash Run with him.

I got every single piece of DLC (Including Mii costumes) on the Wii U version, though only got the costumes I really really wanted (Ex: The Tails and Knuckles costumes) for both Wii U and 3DS.

 

[92MilesPrower]

Tomorrow's preview (I've been distracted by a charity livestream, but I finally remembered):

Snake: Are those yellow dots even supposed to be edible?

Next up:

 

[N3ON]

And another thing, we as players should not get to decide who joins the battle and who doesn't. I find the idea that a player can download some fighters and not others based on some false sense that they should decide who's worthy of being in the game to be rather insulting. You should not be able to opt out of any downloadable fighters in Super Smash Bros. This is also important for competitive reasons.

How on Earth is having more options a negative? Acquiescing to any singular vision is a preferable outcome to tailoring the experience the way you'd most enjoy a product you've paid for? What twisted sycophancy is that. There's a reason as gaming progresses we're presented with more and more ways to customize games to our liking. Because we're all unique, and we all have different preferences, and more than just the developers acknowledging this, they respect that. More over, this authoritarian perspective flies right in the face of consumerism, btw.

Sakurai himself has intimated that he views Smash as some hectic party Brawler first and foremost, but regularly, especially with Ultimate, doubles down on the competitive, 1v1, items off crowd, because you want people to enjoy their experience, however they want to enjoy it.

You do realize this is just you imposing your opinion that other peoples' opinions aren't worth imposing? You're spare parts sometimes, Noah.

 

[KMDP]

Tomorrow's preview (I've been distracted by a charity livestream, but I finally remembered):

Snake: Are those yellow dots even supposed to be edible?

Next up:

Snake: Are those yellow dots even supposed to be edible?
Big Boss: Everything's edible if you try hard enough.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Spoiler: Buzzwole concept art

I know he's not likely to be our Pokemon character in ultimate, but man I want Buzzwole in smash after looking at his concept art.

He could be a grappling character with damage boost and life leaching gimmicks. Plus he's got loads of personality, I seriously want to see Buzzwole get in a flex off with Captain Falcon.

 

[Idon]

My opinion on Smash's DLC business-wise is:

"****'s overpriced, yo."
But Nintendo knows we'll buy it, they know I'll buy it, and they're not really going to stop.

Nintendo could make "Playable Sandbag DLC" and even if he literally did nothing, you know that thing's going to sell more than most indie titles.

Otherwise, additional effort begets additional payment. It's simply a fact of life, and unless they resort to something terribly cancerous like Overwatch style lootboxes or locking them behind single-entry sequels like pre-Street Fighter V, this is probably the best business model (excluding the price-tag) that Nintendo could go for in terms of additional DLC (other than metaphorically burning cash and giving us free stuff for the sake of giving us free stuff)

(Now, if I personally was asked to come up with a compromise, I'd implement a fully fleshed out and functional training mode playable with other people. Then, everyone would get the DLC characters, but only for that training mode. Payment unlocks them for regular use and online. That way, everyone can at the very least learn the matchup and how to fight against them, while also playing them and seeing what their strengths and weaknesses are, but not in any real combat.

So online, you won't be blindsided by a character you couldn't experience unless you paid extra money, but you also won't be just handed a free character at the expense of the other business practices I described above.)

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

The one BIG RED FLAG about this leak is that, while Decidueye is referred to as "Junaiper", Isaac is not referred to as "Robin"; if they were going off of the Japanese names like it looks like they are, that's what he'd be called.

Otherwise, I'd be happy with these roster additions, nearly 100%. The only one I'm not 100% on is Rayman, really; because I prefer Crash for "PS1 Mascot Platformer Character". *shrug*

That aside, thanks for doing all that puzzling.

That's actually a huge red flag indeed. Maybe it the leaker's "source" messed up, we wouldn't know.
I think Rayman makes a ton of sense but I'm mostly indifferent to him being in. I'd be hyped for Banjo & Kazooie though as they've always been my most wanted. That said, it's probably fake due to the JP/EN names
And no problem, I'm glad I could crack it!

Are we actually Ace Attorney now

"For someone to make this entire leak's in binary code for each character... that's immensely clever and pretty hardproof way to show it to us without higherups finding about it, don't you think?"

"This leak certainly is very well-crafted at first glance. However -there's one major aspect present it all fake leaks, rendering even the most cryptic kind not very effective!"

"And what that could be?"

"As you can read here - Decidueye's referred here by his Japanese name "Junaiper". We should thus assume the list's supposedly meant to refer characters by their Japanese names, coming from the original Japanese builds of Ultimate.

So how come Isaac's name isn't "Robin", like in Japanese releases of Golden Sun!?

As you can see, this "leaker" didn't even bother covering well enough of Isaac's inclusion in the list - proving that he merely made this list up again out of many currently popular newcomer wishes in the community like many other fakers before!"

Also I think if having to write the characters' names in Japanese, he should have shortened other characters' names based on their Japanese ones as well - "Ashurī-", Ridorī, "Inkuringu" and so on ("ASHRI", "RIDRI", "INKRIN")

 

[Dracyoshi]

My opinion on Smash's DLC business-wise is:

"****'s overpriced, yo."
But Nintendo knows we'll buy it, they know I'll buy it, and they're not really going to stop.

Nintendo could make "Playable Sandbag DLC" and even if he literally did nothing, you know that thing's going to sell more than most indie titles.

Otherwise, additional effort begets additional payment. It's simply a fact of life, and unless they resort to something terribly cancerous like Overwatch style lootboxes or locking them behind single-entry sequels like pre-Street Fighter V, this is probably the best business model (excluding the price-tag) that Nintendo could go for in terms of additional DLC (other than metaphorically burning cash and giving us free stuff for the sake of giving us free stuff)

(Now, if I personally was asked to come up with a compromise, I'd implement a fully fleshed out and functional training mode playable with other people. Then, everyone would get the DLC characters, but only for that training mode. Payment unlocks them for regular use and online. That way, everyone can at the very least learn the matchup and how to fight against them, while also playing them and seeing what their strengths and weaknesses are, but not in any real combat.

So online, you won't be blindsided by a character you couldn't experience unless you paid extra money, but you also won't be just handed a free character at the expense of the other business practices I described above.)

That's a great solution to the problem, I'd love to see them do that for Ultimate.

 

[Idon]

My opinion on Smash's DLC business-wise is:

"****'s overpriced, yo."
But Nintendo knows we'll buy it, they know I'll buy it, and they're not really going to stop.

Nintendo could make "Playable Sandbag DLC" and even if he literally did nothing, you know that thing's going to sell more than most indie titles.

Otherwise, additional effort begets additional payment. It's simply a fact of life, and unless they resort to something terribly cancerous like Overwatch style lootboxes or locking them behind single-entry sequels like pre-Street Fighter V, this is probably the best business model (excluding the price-tag) that Nintendo could go for in terms of additional DLC (other than metaphorically burning cash and giving us free stuff for the sake of giving us free stuff)

(Now, if I personally was asked to come up with a compromise, I'd implement a fully fleshed out and functional training mode playable with other people. Then, everyone would get the DLC characters, but only for that training mode. Payment unlocks them for regular use and online. That way, everyone can at the very least learn the matchup and how to fight against them, while also playing them and seeing what their strengths and weaknesses are, but not in any real combat.

So online, you won't be blindsided by a character you couldn't experience unless you paid extra money, but you also won't be just handed a free character at the expense of the other business practices I described above.)

Now as for actual character balancing, my thought process is:
Balance your goddamn game, Nintendo.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

here's the problem i'm having with these leak lists: most of them are popular for this game when we're usually a game behind (with some leftover sometimes picked up from games before)
Smash 4 added all the newcomers people wanted in Brawl (okay there was a lot of new series to cover)
Brawl added all the newcomers people wanted in Melee
etc etc

so the thing is, people are cherry picking out characters specifically on Smash Ultimate and picking them specifically from their site for characters that were requested post Smash 4 era. I understand the mentality, and I'm not saying that's wrong, but if I were making a leak list, I'd probably pool from other various events as well of requests.

tl;dr: hot take, just because a character was requested a while ago but not now doesn't deem them irrelevant.

 

[Yellowlord]

So... I assume that one July 22nd rumor/leak is going to either be true or fake after tomorrow, it seems: I'd be shocked if it turned out to be true, but my expectations are quite low.

 

[Espio264]

I dropped this in the roster thread, but I figured I’d get some opinions on it. I know it’s generic, yet a bit too good to be true, but does it feel at all realistic?

It feels too predictable to be done by Sakurai, but would it be fun? Are there any glaring omissions?

Bomberman was my ballot vote, so maybe so many inclusions is my way of making up for him, and Takamaru to a lesser extent.

 

[vaanrose]

View attachment 153819
I dropped this in the roster thread, but I figured I’d get some opinions on it. I know it’s generic, yet a bit too good to be true, but does it feel at all realistic?

It feels too predictable to be done by Sakurai, but would it be fun? Are there any glaring omissions?

Bomberman was my ballot vote, so maybe so many inclusions is my way of making up for him, and Takamaru to a lesser extent.

You need to ruin the OG 12 row by putting Dark Samus up there, cause that's the way Sakurai would do it, lol.

 

[N3ON]

Smash 4 added all the newcomers people wanted in Brawl (okay there was a lot of new series to cover)

...did it? Mega Man and Villager seem like the only real examples. Maybe Bowser Jr.

Meanwhile Ridley, Geno, Krystal, Bomberman, Isaac, Lyn, Goroh, etc. were not added. Even Mewtwo wasn't added until DLC.

so the thing is, people are cherry picking out characters specifically on Smash Ultimate and picking them specifically from their site for characters that were requested post Smash 4 era. I understand the mentality, and I'm not saying that's wrong, but if I were making a leak list, I'd probably pool from other various events as well of requests.

tl;dr: hot take, just because a character was requested a while ago but not now doesn't deem them irrelevant.

Depends how post-Smash 4. If it's the likes of Rex, Spring-Man, Crash and whatnot, sure. I agree with you that people are looking at a skewed timeframe. But the ballot was also post-Smash 4, and if people are basing some expectations on that, I think they've reason to do so.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

View attachment 153819
I dropped this in the roster thread, but I figured I’d get some opinions on it. I know it’s generic, yet a bit too good to be true, but does it feel at all realistic?

It feels too predictable to be done by Sakurai, but would it be fun? Are there any glaring omissions?

Bomberman was my ballot vote, so maybe so many inclusions is my way of making up for him, and Takamaru to a lesser extent.

This seems like the general consensus of the fan picks across the board as of current days.

I could live with Dixie and Chrom in the roster - though lol that Honorary Mentions-section. Such a tease.

 

[Espio264]

You need to ruin the OG 12 row by putting Dark Samus up there, cause that's the way Sakurai would do it, lol.

It always drove me nuts why Doc, Lucina and DP were separated on the selection screen in Wii U/3DS, but I just assumed Sakurai was separating the clones. Now that they have the Echo designation, and everybody is sorted by a number, I thought he might do the same by starting over at the end of the list. Otherwise, Lucina looks like a Melee character. There were no echoes in the demo, so we aren’t certain where they’ll be on the CSS yet, but I like the way this flows.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

View attachment 153819
I dropped this in the roster thread, but I figured I’d get some opinions on it. I know it’s generic, yet a bit too good to be true, but does it feel at all realistic?

It feels too predictable to be done by Sakurai, but would it be fun? Are there any glaring omissions?

Bomberman was my ballot vote, so maybe so many inclusions is my way of making up for him, and Takamaru to a lesser extent.

Predictable, yet solid roster. Only things I'd change would be swap Shadow for Ribbon Girl, swap Celica out with a Fire Emblem Three Houses character because c'mon if that's 2020 DLC it has to be a Three Houses character, and swap Shovel Knight with Dillon because Shovel Knight is pretty much unknown in Japan and Dillon is a likely DLC candidate imo but I will admit that last one is a bit of a bias pick for me.

 

[N3ON]

View attachment 153819
I dropped this in the roster thread, but I figured I’d get some opinions on it. I know it’s generic, yet a bit too good to be true, but does it feel at all realistic?

It feels too predictable to be done by Sakurai, but would it be fun? Are there any glaring omissions?

Bomberman was my ballot vote, so maybe so many inclusions is my way of making up for him, and Takamaru to a lesser extent.

Can you imagine the scene if Sakurai added an honourable mention row right on the CSS?

Personally I'm not anticipating nearly that many newcomers, but that's a fine roster btw. Though vaan is right about the placement.
Thing is, by 2020 we wouldn't get an Echoes character, we'd get one from Three Houses.

 

[vaanrose]

It always drove me nuts why Doc, Lucina and DP were separated on the selection screen in Wii U/3DS, but I just assumed Sakurai was separating the clones. Now that they have the Echo designation, and everybody is sorted by a number, I thought he might do the same by starting over at the end of the list. Otherwise, Lucina looks like a Melee character. There were no echoes in the demo, so we aren’t certain where they’ll be on the CSS yet, but I like the way this flows.

All marketing material puts the echoes right next to the character they echo off of, and they share the same number. It's dumb, it's stupid, but it's almost certainly going to be that way on the CSS.

 

[Opossum]

View attachment 153819
I dropped this in the roster thread, but I figured I’d get some opinions on it. I know it’s generic, yet a bit too good to be true, but does it feel at all realistic?

It feels too predictable to be done by Sakurai, but would it be fun? Are there any glaring omissions?

Bomberman was my ballot vote, so maybe so many inclusions is my way of making up for him, and Takamaru to a lesser extent.

I mean it has Chrom, Celica, and Decidueye. Regardless of likelihood I love this roster.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

...did it? Mega Man and Villager seem like the only real examples. Maybe Bowser Jr.

Meanwhile Ridley, Geno, Krystal, Bomberman, Isaac, Lyn, Goroh, etc. were not added. Even Mewtwo wasn't added until DLC.

I exaggerated a bit to make my point, but it's still proven - If we had no Brawl era to go with, Villager (though, sales), Mega Man, Pac-Man, and Bowser Jr. probably wouldn't be on the roster.

also a lot of new games happened in-between brawl and 4 compared to 4 and ult so...

Depends how post-Smash 4. If it's the likes of Rex, Spring-Man, Crash and whatnot, sure. I agree with you that people are looking at a skewed timeframe. But the ballot was also post-Smash 4, and if people are basing some expectations on that, I think they've reason to do so.

I agree but I'm not saying don't look at the ballot, I'm just saying don't only look at the ballot. If, say, Isaac was requested years ago (which he was) the devs aren't going to suddenly go "well nobody's asking for him now so people don't want him"; they're gonna have him on the radar because "wait didn't people ask for this guy at some point?"

(Granted, if his support stayed consistent that surely would have helped)

ALSO, to add: Bomberman and Krystal, popular Brawl requests, did at least make it into this game. Not as playable, but the point still stands.

 

[Rran]

The good news is that the balance department made sure you wouldn't have to look at Palutena's alts too much in Smash 4. Given the problems her fundamental moveset has and that neither of her main useful tools from 4 are here (Superspeed, Lightweight), they might have the same plan in motion for Ultimate!

Yeah, despite my hope for a better set of specials for Palutena, I've tempered my expectations a bit since the big E3 blowout.

Still though, because we haven't seen nearly enough of her in action, as well as Nate Bihldorff mentioning wanting to add her to his list of mains, I remain cautiously optimistic.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

feel free to save my post and remind me of it party people but: I think Isaac is coming back, whether as an assist trophy or as a fully fledged playable character.

 

[Espio264]

Can you imagine the scene if Sakurai added an honourable mention row right on the CSS?

Personally I'm not anticipating nearly that many newcomers, but that's a fine roster btw. Though vaan is right about the placement.
Thing is, by 2020 we wouldn't get an Echoes character, we'd get one from Three Houses.

I’m not expecting that many either, but it gets harder to narrow it down the more and more you play with it.

Celica is really just a FE place holder, I have no idea who from the series will appeal to Sakurai.

If honorable mentions were actually on the CSS, it would just be a picture of Waluigi crying.

 

[Sigran101]

Why do people call every regularly proportioned human character anime? Most of them aren't. Anime is a very specific style. How are Zelda or shulk anime? Look at their games art style. It's not anywhere close to anime.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

I think that in addition to Ridley, Daisy, and Inkling, we will get the following:
King K. Rool + Gangplank Galleon Stage
Bandanna Dee + Fountain of Dreams returns
Dixie Kong as a semi-clone of Diddy Kong
Either Shantae or Shovel Knight
Gen 7 Pokemon (Either Decidueye or Lycanroc)
New Xenoblade Rep
Rayman and/or Geno

 

[osby]

All marketing material puts the echoes right next to the character they echo off of, and they share the same number. It's dumb, it's stupid, but it's almost certainly going to be that way on the CSS.

Blame the people who freaked out because Smash For clones weren't costumes.

 

[Roberk]

I don't think people would even be bringing up the issue of there being too many swordfighters if each swordfighter we've gotten so far had a more distinct moveset and design. It's just that they all almost have counters, long disjoints and lack variety within their specials. We really don't have much representation of different sword fighting styles yet. No dual wielders, no fencers, etc.

Don't say that there are too many swordfighters. There's not. Say that there are too many similar swordfighters.

>no fencers

"K"

 

[vaanrose]

Celica is really just a FE place holder, I have no idea who from the series will appeal to Sakurai.

Someone from Three Houses will be DLC, 1000%. Same with a Gen 8 Pokemon. Three Houses and Pokemon Switch are going to be Nintendo's two biggest 2019 releases, and I fully expect them to capitalize on them to the full extent. This is true even if both Fire Emblem and Pokemon get base game newcomers, imo.

 

[SmashingXan2]

I think that in addition to Ridley, Daisy, and Inkling, we will get the following:
King K. Rool + Gangplank Galleon Stage
Bandanna Dee + Fountain of Dreams returns
Dixie Kong as a semi-clone of Diddy Kong
Either Shantae or Shovel Knight
Gen 7 Pokemon (Either Decidueye or Lycanroc)
New Xenoblade Rep
Rayman and/or Geno

Add in Simon Belmont and that's pretty much my prediction. Maybe Rayman or Banjo too

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Someone from Three Houses will be DLC, 1000%. Same with a Gen 8 Pokemon. Three Houses and Pokemon Switch are going to be Nintendo's two biggest 2019 releases, and I fully expect them to capitalize on them to the full extent. This is true even if both Fire Emblem and Pokemon get base game newcomers, imo.

i'm right there with this b/c fire emblem and pokemon aren't really franchises showcased well with just one new character. If someone plays the most recent game for most nintendo franchises, they'll go "yeah sure" but for Gen 8 and Three Houses, there might be people that start those series with those.

i see a pokemon newcomer in base game or dlc just because Pokemon loves their marketing

or reverse: they pick up smash, decide to get into those franchises, and then are confused because there's literally no one.

 

[KingIceSonic]

Sakurai deserves to give Chrom an apology. Sakurai decided to be a smart as and make fun of Chrom in Smash 4 for basically being unoriginal and not fitting Ike's moveset.

Fast foward and we have Daisy who floats, throws turnips, and has a parisol(All which don't fit). I guess he must have changed his mind about adding clones that "Don't fit"

 

[Roberk]

Someone from Three Houses will be DLC, 1000%. Same with a Gen 8 Pokemon. Three Houses and Pokemon Switch are going to be Nintendo's two biggest 2019 releases, and I fully expect them to capitalize on them to the full extent. This is true even if both Fire Emblem and Pokemon get base game newcomers, imo.

"I'll take one Pokemon Trainer styled Byleth commanding Edelgard, Dimitri, Claude please, thank you."

Sakurai: "Bwah hah hah, they complained about FE and I gave them not 1, not 2, not 3, but 4 characters!