Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Will]

She literally can't be if Diddy still uses his tail.

not if you give her one :^)

 

[TMNTSSB4]

SSE was good, you guys just are mean.

I never said it was bad though

You know, the Wii U version of SSB4 encouraged unlocking more of the roster, so that must have been an early sign of what's to come here.

Helped that they had less characters to unlock in 4 (don’t leave out the 3DS version...that also needs love), Ultimate is gonna hopefully have an even easier way of unlocking characters than ever before (maybe Amiibos could be used an an unlock method, but that’s just hope)

 

[NintenZ]

Don't you see, it has Dry Bowser.

I mean that’s just as a potential alternate costume, otherwise the roster is exactly the same... I’m not judging or anything, I’m just a little confused is all.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

Bandanna Dee isn't "essential" in the way Dark Matter is. If you take Dark Matter out of the series, the lore of most of the games changes drastically. If you take Dee out... someone else has to be mildly helpful from time to time?

 

[KMDP]

"Yes, finally, I knew she was an honorary Nintendo mascot!"

The little Indie that could.
---
About Echoes, here's something I just cooked up. All the clones and echoes (all of them) if people got their monkey's paw wish.

Sakurai: IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT!? ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?

 

[ColietheGoalie]

She literally can't be if Diddy still uses his tail.

Actually, if I'm not mistaken, Diddy no longer uses his tail in any moves

 

[Idon]

This is expressley the opposite of what I wanted.

 

[Will]

(maybe Amiibos could be used an an unlock method, but that’s just hope)

Ah yes, the pay-to-unlock method never fails.
Honestly I like the large unlockable roster. I don't have much of a problem with it.

 

[MainJPW]

Actually, if I'm not mistaken, Diddy no longer uses his tail in any moves

Are we sure? His neutral attack could work like Captian Falcon's Gentleman.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

(don’t leave out the 3DS version...that also needs love)

Don't worry, it's cool. Only reason I didn't mention it was because more of the roster is already unlocked compared to the Wii U one.

Some food for thought here, but let's consider something for a moment.

We got a surprise Smash announcement at the end of the March Direct, waited a few months and argued about who would be added and who wouldn't be, found out everybody was coming back (some characters missing for almost 20 years), and now we're already back to debating who else will be in. Not only did we get everybody back (which is a landmark accomplishment for the series by the way), but we got Ridley, a character a large portion of the fnabase had written off or stopped supporting.

Listen, I'm excited about who else will be in the game as much as the next person but we've got to take a second and appreciate this game for what it is at this point in time. Long time fans of the series have probably already freaked out a bit. I myself have been that person...honestly, I almost cried watching the reveal trailer at E3. I still watch the Direct over again to get myself re-hyped up.

There's nothing wrong with wanting more from this game, as I myself am excited at the potential newcomers for this game. However, this thread has kinda...overlooked the fact that EVERY SINGLE VETERAN IS BACK. It was pretty much like, "Oh that's cool...alright, move on!"

Dudes, this is HUGE for Smash in terms of characters. It's also a huge workload for the team.

Last night I was with friends and one of them suggested the prospect of there not being any other characters on the roster. While I disagreed with him, it made me think. There's already 65 characters...how far are we going to go until people are satisfied? Will the Smash fanbase EVER be satisfied with what they get? Sometimes I question it.

(skip to 18:40 for the beginning of the Smash portion)
This here is a video from the Nintendo New York store during the E3 event. Fans were allowed in to view the Direct among other fans. This is one of my favorite videos of all time, because at the very moment they were watching the Direct, I was at work trying to keep my hype in check. These fans freaking out shows what the series means to them. That video only featured KNOWN Smash characters. They cheered, and cheered LOUD when they saw their favorite characters. I internally cheered when I saw all my favorites, and those I hadn't expected.

Appreciate this for a moment. Every time I watch this, I get chills.

I think I'd truly be content if a couple series I'm a fan of get their characters covered at last. I might save this vid for a rainy day though.

Also, patience is definitely something that can be rewarded for this series. Remember when it took two whole games before we actually got Wario and Dedede in Smash? That was a crazy time. While we can't always control the circumstances over what we'd want, we still appreciate what we get all the same, as if each game were to be the last.

Edit: Oh, and how could I forget. I will at least appreciate the game for getting the Ice Climbers back in. That in itself means the world to me.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Some food for thought here, but let's consider something for a moment.

We got a surprise Smash announcement at the end of the March Direct, waited a few months and argued about who would be added and who wouldn't be, found out everybody was coming back (some characters missing for almost 20 years), and now we're already back to debating who else will be in. Not only did we get everybody back (which is a landmark accomplishment for the series by the way), but we got Ridley, a character a large portion of the fnabase had written off or stopped supporting.

Listen, I'm excited about who else will be in the game as much as the next person but we've got to take a second and appreciate this game for what it is at this point in time. Long time fans of the series have probably already freaked out a bit. I myself have been that person...honestly, I almost cried watching the reveal trailer at E3. I still watch the Direct over again to get myself re-hyped up.

There's nothing wrong with wanting more from this game, as I myself am excited at the potential newcomers for this game. However, this thread has kinda...overlooked the fact that EVERY SINGLE VETERAN IS BACK. It was pretty much like, "Oh that's cool...alright, move on!"

Dudes, this is HUGE for Smash in terms of characters. It's also huge for workload for the team.

Last night I was with friends and one of them suggested the prospect of there not being any other characters on the roster. While I disagreed with him, it made me think. There's already 65 characters...how far are we going to go until people are satisfied? Will the Smash fanbase EVER be satisfied with what they get? Sometimes I question it.

(skip to 18:40 for the beginning of the Smash portion)
This here is a video from the Nintendo New York store during the E3 event. Fans were allowed in to view the Direct among other fans. This is one of my favorite videos of all time, because at the very moment they were watching the Direct, I was at work trying to keep my hype in check. These fans freaking out shows what the series means to them. That video only featured KNOWN Smash characters. They cheered, and cheered LOUD when they saw their favorite characters. I internally cheered when I saw all my favorites, and those I hadn't expected.

Appreciate this for a moment. Every time I watch this, I get chills.

I've also watched that video so many times, the moment Snake appears is so good, the whole place just explodes, it really is one of the biggest mic drops Nintendo has done. These kind of group reactions are so much better than individual reactions, there's just this honesty to them that you can't recreate with just yourself and a camera imo.

Personally I would be completely satisfied if what we've seen is all we get, since Brawl I've always said that if they just added Ridley I'd have everything I truly wanted, and thankfully we're at that point now. Of course there are still some characters I hope for, but I've got all of my essentials now, at worst I'd feel a little bit of initial disappointment if someone like K. Rool missed out, but nothing will be able to put a proper spanner in my hype, it's just straight ahead for release now.

The time we have to wait between this game's reveal and release is also less than we had to wait for Smash 4's first newcomer reveal post-E3, so for the people who are complaining about a lack of info it's worth noting that we actually have it pretty good. New info will come eventually, just be patient and enjoy the ride for the short time that it'll last, it'll be over before you know it.

 

[P.Kat]

What would your reaction be if Shantae were to be a playable character?

WAHOO! I'd over the moon with joy *singing passionately* CAUSE I CAN DANCE THROUGH THE DANGER

In actuality, I suck at dancing, I've been told I'm a good singer though.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

Some food for thought here, but let's consider something for a moment.

We got a surprise Smash announcement at the end of the March Direct, waited a few months and argued about who would be added and who wouldn't be, found out everybody was coming back (some characters missing for almost 20 years), and now we're already back to debating who else will be in. Not only did we get everybody back (which is a landmark accomplishment for the series by the way), but we got Ridley, a character a large portion of the fnabase had written off or stopped supporting.

Listen, I'm excited about who else will be in the game as much as the next person but we've got to take a second and appreciate this game for what it is at this point in time. Long time fans of the series have probably already freaked out a bit. I myself have been that person...honestly, I almost cried watching the reveal trailer at E3. I still watch the Direct over again to get myself re-hyped up.

There's nothing wrong with wanting more from this game, as I myself am excited at the potential newcomers for this game. However, this thread has kinda...overlooked the fact that EVERY SINGLE VETERAN IS BACK. It was pretty much like, "Oh that's cool...alright, move on!"

Dudes, this is HUGE for Smash in terms of characters. It's also a huge workload for the team.

Last night I was with friends and one of them suggested the prospect of there not being any other characters on the roster. While I disagreed with him, it made me think. There's already 65 characters...how far are we going to go until people are satisfied? Will the Smash fanbase EVER be satisfied with what they get? Sometimes I question it.

(skip to 18:40 for the beginning of the Smash portion)
This here is a video from the Nintendo New York store during the E3 event. Fans were allowed in to view the Direct among other fans. This is one of my favorite videos of all time, because at the very moment they were watching the Direct, I was at work trying to keep my hype in check. These fans freaking out shows what the series means to them. That video only featured KNOWN Smash characters. They cheered, and cheered LOUD when they saw their favorite characters. I internally cheered when I saw all my favorites, and those I hadn't expected.

Appreciate this for a moment. Every time I watch this, I get chills.

You're completely right. I know it's so easy to get hyped up over the prospect of new characters, and I do it myself all the time, but we really ought to just step back and seriously appreciate what we have here. This was easily the biggest info dump in Smash history, and, for me, this was the dream scenario. There was a thread here before talking about what we wanted for the Smash rosters and I legit said that I wanted everybody back in the game. I felt kind of stupid for suggesting it since it seemed so incredibly unlikely, but, low and behold, it happened. As you could probably imagine, I was practically hyperventilating during the reveal.

Not only that but we got Inkling, a pretty obvious addition but a great one nonetheless, Daisy, a pretty popular character, and Ridley, the character I and so many others here had been wanting for SO long but never thought it would happen, HAPPENED!
So, yeah, while I'm of course still hoping for my three most wanted characters right now, Skull Kid, King K. Rool, and Geno (the latter two I think have a decent shot), I think we really should stop being greedy and asking for more, more, MORE. This is, undeniably, undebateably, and unquestionably going to be the best Smash game to date, and we should be nothing but thankful.

 

[Pyra]

not if you give her one :^)

She's a SS Goku echo, obviously. Blonde hair, no tail... They're practically the same character.

Meaning (early) Vegeta is a Diddy Kong echo.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Ah yes, the pay-to-unlock method never fails.
Honestly I like the large unlockable roster. I don't have much of a problem with it.

I like the larger roster aswell...but I also wanna get Pit as quickly as possible (make the Amiibo usage more like Odyssey or Bayo 2 when it comes to unlocking characters than something that’s exclusive to that Amiibo, making it one of many ways to unlock characters)

Don't worry, it's cool. Only reason I didn't mention it was because more of the roster is already unlocked compared to the Wii U one.

True...Rainbow Road is still sexy

 

[osby]

You're completely right. I know it's so easy to get hyped up over the prospect of new characters, and I do it myself all the time, but we really ought to just step back and seriously appreciate what we have here. This was easily the biggest info dump in Smash history, and, for me, this was the dream scenario. There was a thread here before talking about what we wanted for the Smash rosters and I legit said that I wanted everybody back in the game. I felt kind of stupid for suggesting it since it seemed so incredibly unlikely, but, low and behold, it happened. As you could probably imagine, I was practically hyperventilating during the reveal.

Not only that but we got Inkling, a pretty obvious addition but a great one nonetheless, Daisy, a pretty popular character, and Ridley, the character I and so many others here had been wanting for SO long but never thought it would happen, HAPPENED!
So, yeah, while I'm of course still hoping for my three most wanted characters right now, Skull Kid, King K. Rool, and Geno (the latter two I think have a decent shot), I think we really should stop being greedy and asking for more, more, MORE. This is, undeniably, undebateably, and unquestionably going to be the best Smash game to date, and we should be nothing but thankful.

I don't have strong feelings for any Nintendo character not in Smash, so I'm also perfectly content with just all veterans.

Inklings are cool and seeing Dixie Kong, Bandana Dee or Isabelle would be cool but really I prefer talking about characters once they are in the game.

 

[Zerp]

Bandanna Dee isn't "essential" in the way Dark Matter is. If you take Dark Matter out of the series, the lore of most of the games changes drastically. If you take Dee out... someone else has to be mildly helpful from time to time?

Yeah, from a lore standpoint Dark Matter is undeniably one of the most important characters in the franchise, I'd say more so than Meta Knight at this point honestly. I feel like that's less of a knock on Bandana Dee though than it's a reason to not underestimate/overlook Dark Matter, Bandana Dee doesn't have that insane level of lore significance but he's still the 4th main character as of Return to Dreamland, yes he isn't as essential to the plot as Dark Matter but Bandana Dee still does stuff (like fight with Kirby against Magolor Soul), if anything I think it just means Kirby can go for two newcomers instead of just one because there's two very justifiable choices.

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

I know we have some Boshi-As-Yoshi Echo fans in here, but why not Birdo as a Yoshi echo? All that'd have to change is her neutral b. Just copy-paste DeDeDe's inhale and make her eggs pink! Plus she's much more well known. I see her having a chance! (Provided she doesn't show up in the melee Mario 2 stage. Which is unlikely )

 

[RandomAce]

Some food for thought here, but let's consider something for a moment.

We got a surprise Smash announcement at the end of the March Direct, waited a few months and argued about who would be added and who wouldn't be, found out everybody was coming back (some characters missing for almost 20 years), and now we're already back to debating who else will be in. Not only did we get everybody back (which is a landmark accomplishment for the series by the way), but we got Ridley, a character a large portion of the fnabase had written off or stopped supporting.

Listen, I'm excited about who else will be in the game as much as the next person but we've got to take a second and appreciate this game for what it is at this point in time. Long time fans of the series have probably already freaked out a bit. I myself have been that person...honestly, I almost cried watching the reveal trailer at E3. I still watch the Direct over again to get myself re-hyped up.

There's nothing wrong with wanting more from this game, as I myself am excited at the potential newcomers for this game. However, this thread has kinda...overlooked the fact that EVERY SINGLE VETERAN IS BACK. It was pretty much like, "Oh that's cool...alright, move on!"

Dudes, this is HUGE for Smash in terms of characters. It's also a huge workload for the team.

Last night I was with friends and one of them suggested the prospect of there not being any other characters on the roster. While I disagreed with him, it made me think. There's already 65 characters...how far are we going to go until people are satisfied? Will the Smash fanbase EVER be satisfied with what they get? Sometimes I question it.

(skip to 18:40 for the beginning of the Smash portion)
This here is a video from the Nintendo New York store during the E3 event. Fans were allowed in to view the Direct among other fans. This is one of my favorite videos of all time, because at the very moment they were watching the Direct, I was at work trying to keep my hype in check. These fans freaking out shows what the series means to them. That video only featured KNOWN Smash characters. They cheered, and cheered LOUD when they saw their favorite characters. I internally cheered when I saw all my favorites, and those I hadn't expected.

Appreciate this for a moment. Every time I watch this, I get chills.

Well to be real, there are still some characters that people have been asking for years that aren’t in the game. For me, people have been asking for Issac for more than a decade and he still isn’t a newcomer.

I’m going to be honest here but I actually moaned when they said Everyone I here because I knew that Pichu and Young Link were going to be brought back and didn’t think many people actually wanted them. (And if you do, well it seems that you were in a minority).

It was really Snake, Wolf, and Ice Climbers that people were constantly begging to bring back (Roy was also had a lot of vocal support but he was already going to be added) which translated into everyone coming back. And I’m excited to play as Wolf and Snake once again in ultimate.

And while I am happy that everyone is back, it means that I already know who I’m going to play/main, there isn’t really anything past that, it’s really the newcomers that drive people into supporting their wants and even creating forums to gather up fellow supporters to push for their favorite. And even after they get their most wanted, they will begin to analyze everything about they are in the game to see how they’ll play like, etc.

So while there everyone is back is neat, in my opinion, it’s the newcomers that really is the reason why I discuss here on the forums. But I do appreciate about the roster that we have, it’s just that there isn’t much to discuss.

Anyways, I’m at the point where I want a legitimate leak to spoil who the next newcomer is going to be revealed.

 

[papagenos]

I've also watched that video so many times, the moment Snake appears is so good, the whole place just explodes, it really is one of the biggest mic drops Nintendo has done. These kind of group reactions are so much better than individual reactions, there's just this honesty to them that you can't recreate with just yourself and a camera imo.

Personally I would be completely satisfied if what we've seen is all we get, since Brawl I've always said that if they just added Ridley I'd have everything I truly wanted, and thankfully we're at that point now. Of course there are still some characters I hope for, but I've got all of my essentials now, at worst I'd feel a little bit of initial disappointment if someone like K. Rool missed out, but nothing will be able to put a proper spanner in my hype, it's just straight ahead for release now.

The time we have to wait between this game's reveal and release is also less than we had to wait for Smash 4's first newcomer reveal post-E3, so for the people who are complaining about a lack of info it's worth noting that we actually have it pretty good. New info will come eventually, just be patient and enjoy the ride for the short time that it'll last, it'll be over before you know it.

agreed, with smash 4 i was thinking its "almost" perfect just needs wolf/ice climbers/ivysaur/squirtle and then ridley and a new DK rep and i felt it was basically a "complete" feeling roster. Now that we have everyone back and are just one DK rep away from being "there" I feel like I'm totally satisfied, every character from here on out is basically a bonus.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Wasn’t there another tournament in Japan, one for a different area, that would also be televised by Nintendo? I distinctly remember two dates...unlikely to get any new real info, but still...I just need SOMETHING

 

[SquashiniKun]

Wasn’t there another tournament in Japan, one for a different area, that would also be televised by Nintendo? I distinctly remember two dates...unlikely to get any new real info, but still...I just need SOMETHING

I think there's gonna be another one in Osaka.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

Well to be real, there are still some characters that people have been asking for years that aren’t in the game. For me, people have been asking for Issac for more than a decade and he still isn’t a newcomer.

I’m going to be honest here but I actually moaned when they said Everyone I here because I knew that Pichu and Young Link were going to be brought back and didn’t think many people actually wanted them. (And if you do, well it seems that you were in a minority).

It was really Snake, Wolf, and Ice Climbers that people were constantly begging to bring back (Roy was also had a lot of vocal support but he was already going to be added) which translated into everyone coming back.

And while I am happy that everyone is back, it means that I already know who I’m going to play/main, there isn’t really anything past that, it’s really the newcomers that drive people into supporting their wants and even creating forums to gather up fellow supporters to push for their favorite. And even after they get their most wanted, they will begin to analyze everything about they are in the game to see how they’ll play like, etc.

So while there everyone is back is neat, in my opinion, it’s the newcomers that really is the reason why I discuss here on the forums.

Anyways, I’m at the point where I want a legitimate leak to spoil who the next newcomer is going to be revealed.

I do agree with you in saying that I want to know the next newcomer (assuming there is one) really soon, but, continually asking for more and more characters, while inevitable, is such a negative thing to do. It really does get greedy at a certain point, and I feel that people really need to learn to be content with the MASSIVE roster we have now. With this type of stuff I make sure to always be happy with and expect the bare minimum to avoid dissapointment, but it just so happens that the bare minimum here is practically everything I wanted this game to be!

 

[KMDP]

I know we have some Boshi-As-Yoshi Echo fans in here, but why not Birdo as a Yoshi echo? All that'd have to change is her neutral b. Just copy-paste DeDeDe's inhale and make her eggs pink! Plus she's much more well known. I see her having a chance! (Provided she doesn't show up in the melee Mario 2 stage. Which is unlikely )

"Birdo as a Yoshi Echo" has issues as a concept, since Birdo doesn't have the same capabilities as Yoshi.

Zinith , our resident Yoshi superfan, can explain it better than I can.

 

[RandomAce]

Wasn’t there another tournament in Japan, one for a different area, that would also be televised by Nintendo? I distinctly remember two dates...unlikely to get any new real info, but still...I just need SOMETHING

Yes, next week.

I do agree with you in saying that I want to know the next newcomer (assuming there is one) really soon, but, continually asking for more and more characters, while inevitable, is such a negative thing to do. It really does get greedy at a certain point, and I feel that people really need to learn to be content with the MASSIVE roster we have now. With this type of stuff I make sure to always be happy with and expect the bare minimum to avoid dissapointment, but it just so happens that the bare minimum here is practically everything I wanted this game to be!

I agree that it’s definitely not okay to just keep asking for newcomers. It’s just that for me, there are still a couple of characters in order to make this the Ultimate Smash Bros for me.

I remember saying this before, and that if Ridley was the only new reveal it wouldn’t be enough for me since he wasn’t really a character I actively support. And right now is just exactly that, Ridley was the only newcomer revealed and I’m still waiting for my most wanted.

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

"Birdo as a Yoshi Echo" has issues as a concept, since Birdo doesn't have the same capabilities as Yoshi.

Zinith , our resident Yoshi superfan, can explain it better than I can.

I don't see how? I mean, any character has Issues as an echo because the capabilities aren't the same unless it's like, Hilda as Zelda since they're two halves of the same person. Yeah Birdo has different mechanics in the games, but she has a similar build to yoshi, is partnered with him in the sports games constantly, and is well known throughout the mario games as well! Her neutral B would need to be different, but other than that her moveset works pretty 1-1, she has a tail and everything for all yoshi's tail attacks too.

If zinith wants to chime in maybe he'll change my mind!

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

Yes, next week.


I agree that it’s definitely not okay to just keep asking for newcomers. It’s just that for me, there are still a couple of characters in order to make this the Ultimate Smash Bros for me.

I remember saying this before, and that if Ridley was the only new reveal it wouldn’t be enough for me since he wasn’t really a character I actively support. And right now is just exactly that, Ridley was the only newcomer revealed and I’m still waiting for my most wanted.

Yeah, that's completely fair. Honestly, if Skull Kid, K. Rool, and Geno got in right now, then I would be perfectly ok if this was the last Smash game for upwards of a decade or two, that's how ultimate it would be

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I know we have some Boshi-As-Yoshi Echo fans in here, but why not Birdo as a Yoshi echo? All that'd have to change is her neutral b. Just copy-paste DeDeDe's inhale and make her eggs pink! Plus she's much more well known. I see her having a chance! (Provided she doesn't show up in the melee Mario 2 stage. Which is unlikely )

Showing up on a stage doesn’t affect someone’s chances...anymore at the least

 

[Pyra]

but she has a similar build to yoshi

This is true.

is partnered with him in the sports games constantly

This, however, doesn't mean anything in terms of being an echo. Waluigi? Luigi? I mean...

Her neutral B would need to be different

I will consider Birdo appearing in their own egg at all (shield, side special) to be a SMRPG reference because I can't remember another time Birdo has been seen in that context.

I personally think Birdo is just a touch too different. I don't remember an instance in which Birdo lays eggs, in fact. Doesn't a Birdo just kinda shoot eggs that they spontaneously spawn in their body?

I mean if Sakurai really wants to he'll make it happen but in my head Birdo is just a bit too different. Pichu and Pikachu have more similarities among each other and Pichu isn't an echo.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

agreed, with smash 4 i was thinking its "almost" perfect just needs wolf/ice climbers/ivysaur/squirtle and then ridley and a new DK rep and i felt it was basically a "complete" feeling roster. Now that we have everyone back and are just one DK rep away from being "there" I feel like I'm totally satisfied, every character from here on out is basically a bonus.

K rool or Dixie or even better both is what it needs

 

[osby]

Showing up on a stage doesn’t affect someone’s chances...anymore at the least

Now that you mentioned it... Villager's Side-B is also in an Animal Crossing stage, right?

And Pac Man ghosts shows up in a stage, moveset AND as an item.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I know that 92MilesPrower recently made a Solid Snake codec conversation for Rosalina, which has Solid Snake speaking to Otacon. However, I recently made a codec concept for Rosalina, which has Solid Snake speaking to Mei Ling instead.

Rosalina

• Mei Ling: I see that you're fighting Rosalina, Snake.
• Solid Snake: I guess so, but what's with the star-shaped creature that's following her? It's constantly firing colored rocks at me.
• Mei Ling: That is a Luma, and the colored rocks are actually "Star Bits". From what I've read, Star Bits taste like honey, and are a Luma's favorite delicacy.
• Solid Snake: Edible or not, they still hurt.
• Mei Ling: Also, the Lumas refer to Rosalina as their mother, often calling her "Mama". Apparently, Rosalina had a hard past when she was just a child. But the Lumas changed her life, and they became her new family. She now does whatever it takes to keep them healthy and strong. Doesn't that sound sweet?
• Solid Snake: But why is Rosalina letting her adopted children fight by her side? It just doesn't sound right.
• Mei Ling: Believe it or not, Lumas will risk their lives to protect Rosalina. They have a strong bond that can't be broken so easily.
• Solid Snake: That almost sounds like another duo that I've fought before...
• Mei Ling: And if one Luma falls, another one will eventually take its place.
• Solid Snake: So, I guess separating the two isn't a permanent solution to beating them. No matter, I'm pretty sure some good hits will keep that Luma away for a while.
• Mei Ling: Oh, and Snake, please don't hurt the Lumas too much. They're just so cute to look at.
• Solid Snake: Seriously? I can't afford to be soft in this fight, or else I might see myself soaring into outer space!
• Mei Ling: ........

 

[KMDP]

I don't see how? I mean, any character has Issues as an echo because the capabilities aren't the same unless it's like, Hilda as Zelda since they're two halves of the same person. Yeah Birdo has different mechanics in the games, but she has a similar build to yoshi, is partnered with him in the sports games constantly, and is well known throughout the mario games as well! Her neutral B would need to be different, but other than that her moveset works pretty 1-1, she has a tail and everything for all yoshi's tail attacks too.

If zinith wants to chime in maybe he'll change my mind!

Since Zinith isn't here right now, I'll try to explain my take.

It all depends on what, exactly, the "Echo Fighter" designation entails. It doesn't seem to just be a case of having the same skeleton (like 64 Kirby and Jigglypuff); going off of what we know about Lucina and Dark Pit's development in Smash 4, they are, in essence, 'extended alternate costumes'.

Birdo has a big gaping hole for a mouth and no tongue. She can't use the same moves as Yoshi (eat people and poop them out inside eggs), she has a similar build, yes, but this isn't enough (this is why Tails is a problematic Echo too, Tails literally cannot do Sonic's Up throw).

It seems like, from what we know, changing any move in the character's arsenal disqualifies a character from "Echo Fighter" status (we can see this with Dr. Mariom, though he also has weight and speed differences as well).

Personally, I'm not too interested in Boshi; but if there were any Yoshi Echo, he'd be it, he's one of Yoshi's species (with no extra or different powers to my knowledge), and therefore can do all the same things.

 

[Cosmic77]

Showing up on a stage doesn’t affect someone’s chances...anymore at the least

For now, the new rule is that any non-background character who you can interact with is considered disconfirmed.

Characters like Tails and Pauline are technically still viable (albeit extremely unlikely, but we're chalking up Tingle as disconfirmed.

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

This is true.

This, however, doesn't mean anything in terms of being an echo. Waluigi? Luigi? I mean...

I mean, it doesn't guarantee anything. But It could help the devs look at the two and notice the similarities and go from there. Waluigi isn't all the similar to luigi (Aside from evil counterpart) while Birdo and Yoshi are pretty similar in stature and stuff.

I will consider Birdo appearing in their own egg at all (shield, side special) to be a SMRPG reference because I can't remember another time Birdo has been seen in that context.

If it boils down to it they can just give Birdo a regular shield. I doubt that takes much energy. But it would be a cool SMRPG shoutout as well! tbh I wasn't even remembering yoshi's shield was an egg.

I personally think Birdo is just a touch too different. I don't remember an instance in which Birdo lays eggs, in fact. Doesn't a Birdo just kinda shoot eggs that they spontaneously spawn in their body?

This is why I suggested the change the neutral B. They can still use yoshi's basic animations for it just give it different effects. Use it as an Inhale, and have her spit the egg-person out in front instead of behind. EDIT 2: Or have her extend her mouth like yoshi's tongue even

I mean if Sakurai really wants to he'll make it happen but in my head Birdo is just a bit too different. Pichu and Pikachu have more similarities among each other and Pichu isn't an echo.

Pichu used to be a clone in melee though! He's just been changed because the focus was on bringing all the old characters back.

EDIT: KMDP That is a fair assessment. I just like the idea of birdo as a yoshi echo is all

 

[KMDP]

I mean if Sakurai really wants to he'll make it happen but in my head Birdo is just a bit too different. Pichu and Pikachu have more similarities among each other and Pichu isn't an echo.

I think Pichu isn't considered an Echo because he's much smaller than Pikachu (also the self-harm thing). If he still has his old Down Aerial (Pikachu has a new one), then that's another difference.

EDIT: KMDP That is a fair assessment. I just like the idea of birdo as a yoshi echo is all

You should shoot higher! I can see Birdo as a Yoshi Semi-Clone, reasonably easily. This is also my opinion of Shadow, if you're going to include him, include him as a Semi-Clone.

In this context, I mean "Semi-Clone" like what Luigi is: Shares the same (if maybe modified slightly) skeleton, many of the same moves (but with some radically different), and with maybe marginally different movement properties.

It's only slightly harder ("slightly harder" is relative here XD) than an Echo, and would represent the character in question more accurately (Sakurai seems to always shoot for, at the very least, relative accuracy).

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

Because of the stated lower number of newcomers I'm having trouble imagining that there'll be any semi-clones sadly

Although I think I keep mixing up the idea of Echoes with semi-clones in my mind. A Lot of my "Echo fighter" Ideas are actually just semi-clones I think :')

 

[Bowserlick]

Birdo as an echo could theoretically work with just suctions replacing tongue grabs.

I think if the team goes that route, they would keep tweaking Birdo (heavier, stiffer jump from Mario 2, shooting eggs horizontally) until she was just a semi-clone.

Starting as a semi-clone seems like the more faithful and better route. I want Birdo in.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Actually, if I'm not mistaken, Diddy no longer uses his tail in any moves

Diddy Kong does use his tail while performing the infinite portion of his neutral attack. However, I don't recall if that got changed in Smash Ultimate.

 

[Pyra]

I think Pichu isn't considered an Echo because he's much smaller than Pikachu (also the self-harm thing). If he still has his old Down Aerial (Pikachu has a new one), then that's another difference.

I was making a comparison of the similarities between Pichu -> Pikachu and Birdo -> Yoshi.
That's all. The former has more.

I don't think either pair should be an echo pair.
Birdo is different enough to be a semi-clone was the point I was driving at, so the same as you.