Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Icedragonadam]

Speaking of that roster news tibbit, I looked at a countdown calender.

145 days left until Smash Bros Ultimate's release. When you take away the weekends, you have around 110 blog updates left.

And we have what like 40 characters left to be posted to the blog? Plus the few new newcomers and Echoes.

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

But you know what? Almost EVERY game developer would very much want their character in Smash. I'm TIRED of people always acting like Sakurai will get the OK to get a Microsoft character and not get something from a franchise that isn't dead. If they ever announce a 6th game any time soon, sure, I'll consider taking Banjo Kazooie as a potential candidate. Literally what is so special about Phil saying that over for example, the Meat Boy devs campaigning for Meat Boy in Smash?

Yeah but not every character shares the same history as Banjo with Nintendo and not every character is as iconic.

 

[Idon]

It's so bizarre.

Newcomer speculation has both increased in optimism due to the boundaries being pushed for what characters can be considered for Smash, and pessimism due to Sakurai's focus on Smash veterans.

So what ends up happening is we get all these hopeful "out there" character picks mixed with doubt over every character pick, even extremely conservatives ones, with many character discussions turning into speculation about them being potential clone characters.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

My only thing about Banjo isn't ''MUH CONSOLE WARS" or anything.

I just feel as if Microsoft shows they really don't care about the old Rare properties in general. So if they were going to let Nintendo have something that was their own? It'd be something like Minecraft, Halo, or Gears of Wars. You know a franchise they give a true **** about.

Banjo is at this point like Geno. He feels like someone you have to get SECOND after you get the person who represents the company as a whole.

 

[JLU51306]

A really nice feature would be to be able to switch the character select UI to other games.

You have no idea how much I'd love this.

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

I wonder how people would feel if we have already seen the whole roster?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yeah but not every character shares the same history as Banjo with Nintendo and not every character is as iconic.

But Banjo's history is nothing special at all. 2 games people like, 2 nobody remembers and 1 people hate. He isn't well-known to anyone other than people who were around during the 64 days

 

[DJ3DS]

Am I honestly one of the only people around here who doesn't mind all that much that Ganondorf has no projectile with that Dead Man Volley? It was designed so that it could be reflected back at him.. in Smash, it would be terrible on his moveset. The last thing Ganondorf needs is being hit by his own projectiles lol

It could definitely be implemented in an interesting way. Say, as a slower projectile that Ganon can move behind (creating space) that can't be shielded but can be reflected by any attack, but the more times it is reflected the higher the base damage required to reflect it becomes.

This would be a fun mechanic that would generally favour Ganondorf due to the higher damage outputs on his attacks.

I wonder how people would feel if we have already seen the whole roster?

A little sad to not see King K. Rool, but honestly pretty happy. Getting Ridley, Snake, ICs and Wolf on top of the existing Smash 4 roster is already great.

 

[Will]

If Dead Man's Volley wasn't thrown onto characters like a Blue Stalfos, I'd be more interested in giving it to Ganondorf in Smash. It just never felt like a "Ganon move" so much as an "interesting boss move that gets repeated". I feel it's better left out now that it isn't even a signature move to Ganon-related characters. Agnahim, Phantom Ganon, Ganondorf, even Twinrova at least relate to Ganon in some way. Whether family or otherwise. But even ones like the Cubus Sisters use it. It's just not clearly some key move to the Ganon characters and it feels more like it'd be shoehorned in just for the sake of having a projectile. I'd love for Ganondorf to see more improvements, but there's better ways to do it at this point. Give him better approaching options, please.

Dead Man's Volley is a neat idea, but what's strange is Dedede already has a similar move in the shape of Gordos. The only difference being that while Gordos go from slow, heavy hitting to super-fast and heavier hitting, Dead Man's Volley is initially slower (and in a Smash sense possibly less powerful) until it starts getting knocked back and forth where it gains more speed (and in a Smash sense possibly more power/knockback).

My only thing about Banjo isn't ''MUH CONSOLE WARS" or anything.

I just feel as if Microsoft shows they really don't care about the old Rare properties in general. So if they were going to let Nintendo have something that was their own? It'd be something like Minecraft, Halo, or Gears of Wars. You know a franchise they give a true **** about.

Banjo is at this point like Geno. He feels like someone you have to get SECOND after you get the person who represents the company as a whole.

So are you implying it'd be easier to use a Rare property Microsoft currently supports?

That's not even a bad outcome.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I wonder how people would feel if we have already seen the whole roster?

Honestly? Wouldn't even be mad

 

[TheLastJinjo]

If any third parties beyond Simon, Heihachi from Tekken and Agnes from Bravely Default?

 

[Idon]

I like how Hyrule Warriors does it and makes him throw a spear to the ground and use that spear as a lightning rod for his dead man's volley so it isn't reflected back at him.
Now that's a Ganondorf who's become savvy.

If any third parties beyond Simon, Heihachi from Tekken and Agnes from Bravely Default?

if they... what?

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

But you know what? Almost EVERY game developer would very much want their character in Smash. I'm TIRED of people always acting like Sakurai will get the OK to get a Microsoft character and not get something from a franchise that isn't dead. If they ever announce a 6th game any time soon, sure, I'll consider taking Banjo Kazooie as a potential candidate. Literally what is so special about Phil saying that over for example, the Meat Boy devs campaigning for Meat Boy in Smash?

Because the Meat Boy Developers aren't Microsoft, the biggest technology conglomerate in the world. And I'm not saying that Banjo is totes confirmed because Phil said so. But if, IF, the two of them wanted to make it happen it would happen. It doesn't really matter how irrelevant Banjo is. If that's what Sakurai thinks the fans want that's what he's going to get. I highly doubt he would pick Master Chief, or Marcus Fenix, or even the Battletoads or Jago over Banjo just because they're more relevant. Steve? Sure. That's a possibility but compared to the support that Banjo gets on and off of the Boards I think Steve pales in comparison. Yeah, you have the younger crowd who probably voted for him in the ballot but even still Sakurai knows who he's trying to make the game for. There's a reason ALL of the previous characters from past games are back and it's not for trying to bring on new players. It's for the fans of Smash who's loved these characters since their first appearance and has stuck with the series since.

Steve and Banjo are both equally possible but if I had to nudge one closer to being more possible than the other, despite being as topical and relevant as Minecraft is, it'd be Banjo.

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

But Banjo's history is nothing special at all. 2 games people like, 2 nobody remembers and 1 people hate. He isn't well-known to anyone other than people who were around during the 64 days

But those Nintendo 64 people are still around and supporting Nintendo, myself included. Whenever you see microsoft or rare mention Banjo pretty much the only thing you’ll see is people asking him for Smash. Also I’m sure Sakurai wants to implement characters that will garner the most attention. Getting a character that belongs to Microsoft would be huge, bigger than anything we’ve ever gotten.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

But Banjo's history is nothing special at all. 2 games people like, 2 nobody remembers and 1 people hate. He isn't well-known to anyone other than people who were around during the 64 days

He's had more games. And you're very much underestimating how big those two n64 games were. He's still niche, but not that niche as you're making him. He's nowhere near that iconic, not remotely on Snake's level either(who isn't as recognizable as MegaMan overall, though it's pretty close). But it's not "Nintendo history" that got people wanting him so much as his two games on the N64 were really damn good. It's direct nostalgia, not so much the Nintendo part alone. I agree he's being wayyyyyyyy overrated.

My only thing about Banjo isn't ''MUH CONSOLE WARS" or anything.

I just feel as if Microsoft shows they really don't care about the old Rare properties in general. So if they were going to let Nintendo have something that was their own? It'd be something like Minecraft, Halo, or Gears of Wars. You know a franchise they give a true **** about.

Banjo is at this point like Geno. He feels like someone you have to get SECOND after you get the person who represents the company as a whole.

Only key difference is Geno is known for being wanted by Sakurai. Though to be fair, Sakurai did consider B&K during Melee, so at the very least, I could see him being interested in them again. Many characters he's considered have gotten into later games. I entirely agree with you that we'd get other Microsoft content first. Though it doesn't necessarily mean a character before B&K. They feel like they wouldn't get in beyond a bonus at this point.

Dead Man's Volley is a neat idea, but what's strange is Dedede already has a similar move in the shape of Gordos. The only difference being that while Gordos go from slow, heavy hitting to super-fast and heavier hitting, Dead Man's Volley is initially slower (and in a Smash sense possibly less powerful) until it starts getting knocked back and forth where it gains more speed (and in a Smash sense possibly more power/knockback).


So are you implying it'd be easier to use a Rare property Microsoft currently supports?

That's not even a bad outcome.

Honestly this feels like the most likely Rare property if it's not B&K. They're the two biggest series Rare has as is. I'd prefer Fulgore myself(who is obviously the face of the series).

 

[Will]

If any third parties beyond Simon, Heihachi from Tekken and Agnes from Bravely Default?

What?
I don't think you finished that post

 

[Cosmic77]

Here's a new game. Pick 8 newcomers(Unique or Echo), but they must start with each letter in ULTIMATE. I'l start:

Urbosa
Lloyd Irving
Twintelle
Isabelle
Mach Rider
Ashley
Tatanga
Ephraim

Unexpected character
Lycanroc
Toad
Isabelle
Mipha
ARMS rep
The Chorus Kids
Elma

With a little creativity, you can make your dream roster while still adhering to the rules.

But Banjo's history is nothing special at all. 2 games people like, 2 nobody remembers and 1 people hate. He isn't well-known to anyone other than people who were around during the 64 days

I wouldn't say Banjo's history is nothing, but yeah, most of his appeal is from nostalgia alone. Same thing applies with Geno too.

I can totally get why people would want both of these characters in Smash, but once you set aside the love older gamers have for their classic games, there's not really much of a reason for Sakurai to include either of these two over someone who has a longer, broader history in video games. There's plenty of characters who've survived modern gaming, and sadly, Smash speculation is a large part of why both Banjo and Geno haven't completely faded away into obscurity by now.

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

Im not saying Banjo is getting in btw, I’m just arguing the impact he would have. Rare pretty much already deconfirmed him

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Because the Meat Boy Developers aren't Microsoft, the biggest technology conglomerate in the world. And I'm not saying that Banjo is totes confirmed because Phil said so. But if, IF, the two of them wanted to make it happen it would happen. It doesn't really matter how irrelevant Banjo is. If that's what Sakurai thinks the fans want that's what he's going to get. I highly doubt he would pick Master Chief, or Marcus Fenix, or even the Battletoads or Jago over Banjo just because they're more relevant. Steve? Sure. That's a possibility but compared to the support that Banjo gets on and off of the Boards I think Steve pales in comparison. Yeah, you have the younger crowd who probably voted for him in the ballot but even still Sakurai knows who he's trying to make the game for. There's a reason ALL of the previous characters from past games are back and it's not for trying to bring on new players. It's for the fans of Smash who's loved these characters since their first appearance and has stuck with the series since.

Steve and Banjo are both equally possible but if I had to nudge one closer to being more possible than the other, despite being as topical and relevant as Minecraft is, it'd be Banjo.

But those Nintendo 64 people are still around and supporting Nintendo, myself included. Whenever you see microsoft or rare mention Banjo pretty much the only thing you’ll see is people asking him for Smash. Also I’m sure Sakurai wants to implement characters that will garner the most attention. Getting a character that belongs to Microsoft would be huge, bigger than anything we’ve ever gotten.

I just don't see it happening, Banjo's fanbase overlaps already, if you're interested in Banjo Kazooie, you're already interested in Smash

He's had more games. And you're very much underestimating how big those two n64 games were. He's still niche, but not that niche as you're making him. He's nowhere near that iconic, not remotely on Snake's level either(who isn't as recognizable as MegaMan overall, though it's pretty close). But it's not "Nintendo history" that got people wanting him so much as his two games on the N64 were really damn good. It's direct nostalgia, not so much the Nintendo part alone. I agree he's being wayyyyyyyy overrated.


Only key difference is Geno is known for being wanted by Sakurai. Though to be fair, Sakurai did consider B&K during Melee, so at the very least, I could see him being interested in them again. Many characters he's considered have gotten into later games. I entirely agree with you that we'd get other Microsoft content first. Though it doesn't necessarily mean a character before B&K. They feel like they wouldn't get in beyond a bonus at this point.


Honestly this feels like the most likely Rare property if it's not B&K. They're the two biggest series Rare has as is. I'd prefer Fulgore myself(who is obviously the face of the series).

Remind me, what games did I forget? There's Pilot and Grunty's Revenge but that's it

 

[N3ON]

Doesn't make sense to funnel the audience away from your products using your IP as the beacon, Gwen. It doesn't work as promotion when there's nothing to promote.

And that's why this is an atypical situation.

 

[Will]

Honestly this feels like the most likely Rare property if it's not B&K. They're the two biggest series Rare has as is. I'd prefer Fulgore myself(who is obviously the face of the series).

I just want Fulgore's theme dude. It's such a banger.

Remind me, what games did I forget? There's Pilot and Grunty's Revenge but that's it

I don't know if you're memeing me or if you genuinely forgot Nuts N Bolts

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

As for a character that I do think is getting in... Rayman

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I just want Fulgore's theme dude. It's such a banger.

I don't know if you're memeing me or if you genuinely forgot Nuts N Bolts

I listed 5 games total when I started this, that's the one people want to forget and hating it

 

[P.Kat]

*Huff* *Puff* Made it to the top current part of the mountain finally, this thread is so quick.

Here's a new game. Pick 8 newcomers(Unique or Echo), but they must start with each letter in ULTIMATE. I'l start:

Urbosa
Lloyd Irving
Twintelle
Isabelle
Mach Rider
Ashley
Tatanga
Ephraim

Urbosa
Lyn
Taki (from Soul Caliber)
Isabelle
Min-Min
Amaterasu
Tetra
Elma

 

[Diddy Kong]

Here's a new game. Pick 8 newcomers(Unique or Echo), but they must start with each letter in ULTIMATE. I'l start:

Urbosa
Lloyd Irving
Twintelle
Isabelle
Mach Rider
Ashley
Tatanga
Ephraim

Urbosa
Lanky Kong
Twintelle
Impa
Mach Rider
Amaterasu
Takamaru?
Ephraim

 

[SuperSceptile15]

I'm not saying he has no chance, but why would Geno get in as a playable character when he's even less relevant than Waluigi? Yes, Sakurai mentioned wanting him, but he said the same about Takamaru and look where he's at. I'm not even a fan of Waluigi, but I think people are overestimating Geno's chances.

On another note... http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...with_nintendos_bill_trinen_and_nate_bihldorff
>Are there plans to either announce characters between now and December or is the finalized, complete roster? Can we expect to see more at a later date?
>Trinen: We can answer that when we get closer to December.
Looks like we could be waiting a long time for new character reveals, folks.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm not saying he has no chance, but why would Geno get in as a playable character when he's even less relevant than Waluigi? Yes, Sakurai mentioned wanting him, but he said the same about Takamaru and look where he's at. I'm not even a fan of Waluigi, but I think people are overestimating Geno's chances.

On another note... http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...with_nintendos_bill_trinen_and_nate_bihldorff
>Are there plans to either announce characters between now and December or is the finalized, complete roster? Can we expect to see more at a later date?
>Trinen: We can answer that when we get closer to December.
Looks like we could be waiting a long time for new character reveals, folks.

1: We don't know the reason for Waluigi not being in so the comparison already doesn't work
2: Again, PR speak for "Stay tuned because I'm not allowed to mention that right now"

 

[KingBroly]

It's closer to December now. I think they should release more information.

 

[EchoAegis]

I'm i the only one who thinks the most exciting part of a character getting announced beside getting announced is the huge increase of fan art that Character will get. Especially those with a low amount.

C'mon Sakurai I need more Elma fanart in my life

 

[Cosmic77]

I'm not saying he has no chance, but why would Geno get in as a playable character when he's even less relevant than Waluigi? Yes, Sakurai mentioned wanting him, but he said the same about Takamaru and look where he's at. I'm not even a fan of Waluigi, but I think people are overestimating Geno's chances.

Comparisons aside, I just think Geno would be an odd choice for a Mario rep in general. You've got Mario, Luigi, Peach, Daisy, Bowser, Rosalina, Bowser Jr, and...the wooden doll guy from that Mario game that came out two decades ago.

Geno makes Dr. Mario look like a series regular by comparison.

 

[BlondeLombax]

On another note... http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...with_nintendos_bill_trinen_and_nate_bihldorff
>Are there plans to either announce characters between now and December or is the finalized, complete roster? Can we expect to see more at a later date?
>Trinen: We can answer that when we get closer to December.

2: Again, PR speak for "Stay tuned because I'm not allowed to mention that right now"

Buckle up, fellas, this is gonna be a painful, yet somehow still hype-inducing wait.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Buckle up, fellas, this is gonna be a painful, yet somehow still hype-inducing wait.

That's not what I meant but I at least expect 2, maybe 3 more characters pre-release

 

[vaanrose]

If Dead Man's Volley wasn't thrown onto characters like a Blue Stalfos, I'd be more interested in giving it to Ganondorf in Smash. It just never felt like a "Ganon move" so much as an "interesting boss move that gets repeated". I feel it's better left out now that it isn't even a signature move to Ganon-related characters. Agnahim, Phantom Ganon, Ganondorf, even Twinrova at least relate to Ganon in some way. Whether family or otherwise. But even ones like the Cubus Sisters use it. It's just not clearly some key move to the Ganon characters and it feels more like it'd be shoehorned in just for the sake of having a projectile. I'd love for Ganondorf to see more improvements, but there's better ways to do it at this point. Give him better approaching options, please.

Now that I think about it, Ganondorf should get a reflector. Give him that backhanded slap he does in OoT and let him just knock away other people's energy balls like it's nothing.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Honestly, if you want my opinion, if Sakurai really was looking to put a fan character in the game, he would hold a "Make a character" contest which would severely filter out the low-effort content while providing more concrete character concepts

Ooh, can we do this for DLC? I didn’t get a chance to vote my most wanted last round.

Here's a new game. Pick 8 newcomers(Unique or Echo), but they must start with each letter in ULTIMATE. I'l start:

Urbosa
Lloyd Irving
Twintelle
Isabelle
Mach Rider
Ashley
Tatanga
Ephraim

Urbosa
L...Lyn?
Tails
Ivy Valentine
Midna
Azura
T...uhh...The Dragonborn ()
Eevee, I guess...

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

vaanrose Where's that Simon render in your signature from? Looks really damn good.

 

[OdnetninAges]

Here's a new game. Pick 8 newcomers(Unique or Echo), but they must start with each letter in ULTIMATE. I'l start:

Urbosa
Lloyd Irving
Twintelle
Isabelle
Mach Rider
Ashley
Tatanga
Ephraim

Urbosa
Lloyd Irving
Tails
Isaac
Micaiah
Ashley
Tora
Eirika

Imagine characters fighting while the song "Give Me all Your Love" plays in the background. I can already imagine it and it's hilarious.

I have before, and it is glorious.

 

[Idon]

vaanrose Where's that Simon render in your signature from? Looks really damn good.

I'm not him, but I believe it's an edit of this:

Trevor Belmont from the Pachislot render
I can't find a red hair variant so I assume it's an original edit?

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Have we heard about the July 22 Nintendo Direct leak? Apparently this is from the guy who accurately leaked Nintendo Funkopops and Mario Kart 8 DLC.

This leak? Eh...I'm not sure. Nintendo usually doesn't announce merch during directs.

 

[vaanrose]

vaanrose Where's that Simon render in your signature from? Looks really damn good.

I'm not him, but I believe it's an edit of this:View attachment 153131
I can't find a red hair variant so I assume it's an original edit?

Yeah, I just photoshopped Trevor. I'm firmly in the red hair>conan camp, lol.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

This leak? Eh...I'm not sure. Nintendo usually doesn't announce merch during directs.

Nintendo doesn't do directs on weekends either