Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Suggesting another version other than Dusk Lycanroc litteraly takes away all the support it has as Ash's ace.

And with the date of the project proposal and assumption that work began early 2016, I don't think Dusk Lycanroc is likely.

...lol I remember a time where people discussed a gen 8 Pokemon or a Fire Emblem Switch character for the base roster.

 

[MagnesD3]

So I think based off reading this thread and the various "leaks" I think I have what seem to be the consensus top 10 most likely characters. Let's play a game, order these 10 in who you believe is most likely to least likely to be playable. Here's mine....

1. King K Rool
2. Dixie Kong
3. Simon Belmont
4. Isabelle
5. Shadow
6. Geno
7. Ashley
8. Elma
9. Decidueye
10. Bandana Dee

1. Simon Belmont
2. Incinaroar
3. Elma
4. Chorus Kids
5. Geno
6. King K Rool
7. Ashley
8. Isabelle
9. Chrom
10. Bandanna Dee

 

[Hidan]

So I think based off reading this thread and the various "leaks" I think I have what seem to be the consensus top 10 most likely characters. Let's play a game, order these 10 in who you believe is most likely to least likely to be playable. Here's mine....

1. King K Rool
2. Dixie Kong
3. Simon Belmont
4. Isabelle
5. Shadow
6. Geno
7. Ashley
8. Elma
9. Decidueye
10. Bandana Dee

1. Bandana Dee
2. Isabelle
3. Elma
4. King K. Rool
5. Ashley
6. Decidueye
7. Dixie Kong
8. Geno
9. Simon Belmont
10. Shadow

Some reasons as to why I placed characters where I did:
Bandana Dee is number 1 for me just because we have the most "proof" compared to literally any other newcomer that points to him being playable (based on real data).
Isabelle is VERY popular, and literally the face of AC. I haven't played since the game on the DS, so I'm not really familiar with her character, but just seeing her constant promotion and crossover material makes me think it'd be hard pressed for her to not make it in this time.
3-7 are relatively closer than everyone else on the list
Geno makes it down to number 8 because I, unfortunately, feel like, while I know Sakurai wants him in, if he didn't make it the last two times, I can't say his chances are extremely high to make it this time.
Simon I feel like is only ever mentioned because of Vergeben, which I believe may have had an accurate source for Ridley, but with no Castlevania collection for the Switch in sight I find it hard pressed that he'll be in the game. We'll see though.
I put Shadow last because I personally don't think we'll get two fighters from a third party game. The Knuckles trophy doesn't speak volumes to me because I feel like we'd sooner get two third-party AT before two third-party characters.

EDIT:

Glad you asked.
The top 10 characters in leaks are:
1. K. Rool
2. Simon Belmont
3. Shadow
4. Dixie Kong
5. Dark Samus
6. Ashley
7. Geno
8. Elma
9. Isabelle
10, Ray-Man/Banjo-Kazooie

A Pokémon Representative would be number 3 or 4.

Close, but Bandana Dee and Decidueye are top 20, not top 10.

I'm still holding out for my boi Lloyd.

If we're including Ray-Man/Banjo-Kazooie and Dark Samus instead, this is how my list would shift:

1. Isabelle
2. Dark Samus
3. Elma
4. King K. Rool
5. Ashley
6. Dixie Kong
7. Geno
8. Simon Belmont
9. Ray-Man/Banjo-Kazooie
10. Shadow

EDIT#2: Just realized I put all the third parties at the bottom of both of my lists, not that I'm overly surprised.

 

[Idon]

The only character I want that is aligned with the stars and is actually sorta possible in Smash is Simon Belmont.
Ryu Hayabusa, Amaterasu, Monster Hunter, are also possible, but they just don't seem at all likely, especially with SSBU's emphasis on veterans.

 

[Impa4Smash]

So I think based off reading this thread and the various "leaks" I think I have what seem to be the consensus top 10 most likely characters. Let's play a game, order these 10 in who you believe is most likely to least likely to be playable. Here's mine....

1. King K Rool
2. Dixie Kong
3. Simon Belmont
4. Isabelle
5. Shadow
6. Geno
7. Ashley
8. Elma
9. Decidueye
10. Bandana Dee

Here’s what I think:

1. King K Rool
2. Simon Belmont
3. Dixie King
4. Elma
5. Ashley
6. Geno
7. Bandanna Dee
8. Shadow
9. Decidueye
10. Isabelle

 

[CaptainAmerica]

That's also how I feel about it. "Bringing something new" is kinda why my signature wishlist is what it is:

Goemon: Chain pipe weapon, giant flaming coin projectiles, and Impact for a final smash? Hell yeah

Geno: Hopes and dreams realized, gun arm, SMRPG mechanics and Geno Whirl? And any of his other special moves? Hell yeah

Simon Belmont: Whippy boi? (I uh... I actually haven't played Castlevania, but I do like the concept of a Belmont joining) Hell yeah

K. Rool: Donkey Kong antagonist? Blunderbuss? The potential for an another awesome unique heavy character? Hell yeah

Paper Mario: Bringing in any of his multitude of unique abilities over the game? Partner mechanics? Hammer as a main weapon and not just a down special? Hell yeah

My list of characters is "These guys'd be pretty unique." tempered with a heaping helping "I just want these guys, okay?
Isaac - Geomancy. Literal Stage Control would be pretty great.
Tails - His Flight (with Carrying) ability would make him, like, the best Doubles partner.
Tifa - Little Mac with a Limit Gauge (plus Kicks and stuff like Suplexs)
Agumon - If they could make Evolution a part of his repertoire (I'd say it's actually more important to Digimon than it is to Pokémon), he could be a super unique character (you can change forms, but have to commit to that form).
Nightmare - A Giant Sword-wielder whose sword actually feels as heavy as it looks, along with Soul Edge's inherent vampirism.
Sephiroth - A sword-wielder with enormous range (you can balance his wide area-of-effect with long move execution times).

That's a fun way to think of things. I've gotta say that I moslty want characters because I like them, but that list is getting shorter.

Ridley and K.Rool were mostly for the fans. True, heavyweights are lacking in Smash - I'm not a fan of the fragile speedster archetype, so I naturally gravitate to low tiers... - but I wanted them because their support threads from Sm4sh era.

I love to consider how Dovahkiin could have a sword/shout playstyle. I'm loving him using mostly sword/dagger dual weld, or to use a shield as a weapon (since Skyrim's shields were more than just a wall with bashes and etc.. We don't have anyone with a shield outside of the Links too). Still writing that up, but if he had chargeable specials which could gimp him if he uses them too much, that adds an element of strategy. I guess Robin is the closest character to what I'd envisioned, but I see him as a more aggressive risk-taking Robin.

But I love the idea of Nightmare. I love Soul Calibur, so he'd be way cool to see. Bonus points if he has Siegfried as an alt (I know they're not exactly the same, but Soul Calibur technically is just like Soul Edge - the SCIV/SCV Story modes even made it a point to show how 'evil' it was as well.)

 

[KMDP]

Glad you asked.
The top 10 characters in leaks are:
1. K. Rool
2. Simon Belmont
3. Shadow
4. Dixie Kong
5. Dark Samus
6. Ashley
7. Geno
8. Elma
9. Isabelle
10, Ray-Man/Banjo-Kazooie

A Pokémon Representative would be number 3 or 4.

Close, but Bandana Dee and Decidueye are top 20, not top 10.

I'm still holding out for my boi Lloyd.

In the Isaac thread, I made a post (well, several posts because of... reasons...) about who I thought were probably the top 20 highest requested characters in the Smash Ballot. I'll just... bump it up to "Top 25" to include characters from both versions of the list (I forgot people both times), along with some extras

Veterans: Wolf, Snake, Ice Climbers, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Roy, Lucas, Young Link, Pichu
1st Party: Ridley, Inkling, "A Mario Character" (Daisy, Toad or Waluigi), K. Rool, Dixie, Bandana Dee, Paper Mario, Ashley, Isaac
3rd Party: "A Sonic Character" (Tails, Shadow or Knuckles), "A Final Fantasy Character" (Cloud), Bayonetta, Geno, Banjo & Kazooie, Simon Belmont, Crash Bandicoot

It's in no particular order and I don't much fancy giving it order. Naturally, it's missing some characters like Rayman, Arle Nadja and Magolor, because it's a worldwide estimate; those guys were probably pretty region specific. I imagine Isaac and Ashley would be the lowest of the 1st Party characters.

 

[Pyra]

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/8xpuq5
Damn, Link looks good

 

[Idon]

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/8xpuq5
Damn, Link looks good

Yeah, but I have to wonder if that amount of setplay is even realistic.

 

[sdpdude9]

Aside from newcomers, are there any characters you haven't really played before but might give a shot this time?

Personally, I'll try out every character again and see if anybody clicks.

 

[Bowserlick]

This is Smash Ultimate and as with all Smash games probably Sakurai's last Smash.

Thus, characters that were considered but not implemented may have a little extra boost in making the cut.

Chorus Kids, Dixie, Geno, and Mach Rider.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Aside from newcomers, are there any characters you haven't really played before but might give a shot this time?

Personally, I'll try out every character again and see if anybody clicks.

Yeah, I’ll definitely be giving each character a try. But I’m excited for and .

I love both characters outside of smash, but didn’t really like playing as them in previous smash games. They both look greatly improved, so I’ll give em a try

 

[Idon]

Well, if we're going off the deep-end of what's considered "realistic" then here's my top ten list before E3.

Spoiler: List

And here it is analyzed for actual realism.

Spoiler: List

So as it turns out, the only possible (Not even likely, mind you) newcomers that I want from my top ten are ALL THIRD PARTIES.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

In the Isaac thread, I made a post (well, several posts because of... reasons...) about who I thought were probably the top 20 highest requested characters in the Smash Ballot. I'll just... bump it up to "Top 25" to include characters from both versions of the list (I forgot people both times), along with some extras

Veterans: Wolf, Snake, Ice Climbers, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Roy, Lucas, Young Link, Pichu
1st Party: Ridley, Inkling, "A Mario Character" (Daisy, Toad or Waluigi), K. Rool, Dixie, Bandana Dee, Paper Mario, Ashley, Isaac
3rd Party: "A Sonic Character" (Tails, Shadow or Knuckles), "A Final Fantasy Character" (Cloud), Bayonetta, Geno, Banjo & Kazooie, Simon Belmont, Crash Bandicoot

It's in no particular order and I don't much fancy giving it order. Naturally, it's missing some characters like Rayman, Arle Nadja and Magolor, because it's a worldwide estimate; those guys were probably pretty region specific. I imagine Isaac and Ashley would be the lowest of the 1st Party characters.

I'd also say "A Zelda character" and Krystal were up there as well, hence her inclusion as an assist trophy and with Midna, Ghirahim, Skull Kid, Tingle, Impa, Tetra and all the rest Zelda characters in general probably got a lot of votes. Same for Pokemon. Isabelle could have been up there too

 

[Opossum]

a wyvern-riding unit (alas Camilla’s the only one that comes to mind),

Personally when it comes to Wyvern Riders and Dracoknights, there's one I'd definitely love to see.

Seriously though, Minerva's great.

 

[Mr. Game + Watch]

Who thinks a semi clone of would be cool. They could switch around the evolution stages or they could do pokemon starters from other regions. Example: , ,and or piplup, grotle, and infernape

 

[Tree Gelbman]

So I think based off reading this thread and the various "leaks" I think I have what seem to be the consensus top 10 most likely characters. Let's play a game, order these 10 in who you believe is most likely to least likely to be playable. Here's mine....

1. King K Rool
2. Dixie Kong
3. Simon Belmont
4. Isabelle
5. Shadow
6. Geno
7. Ashley
8. Elma
9. Decidueye
10. Bandana Dee

1. Isabelle
2. King K. Rool.
3. Geno
4. Elma
5. Bandana Dee
6. Ashley
7. Dixie Kong
8. Decidueye
9. Shadow
10. Simon Belmont

 

[Deleted member]

Ooo, interesting.
That's pretty neat, actually.

There's also applying the Gaster Blasters, forcing an opponent in "Blue SOUL Mode" which increases how gravity effects them temporarily, and perhaps have him be the ONLY one unaffected by the new multiple dodge mechanics (i.e. he can dodge as much as he want without repercussion) and even have a move that works as a special "auto-dodge".
With the trade-off that he is extremely light (lighter than Pichu) to reference how he can't really take a hit.

I would say also have the "Karmic Retribution" property of the light-blue bone attacks still take effect if they hit on shield (just the initial 1% hit doesn't register, so no knockback), but that may be too broken.

 

[Idon]

Well, if we're going off the deep-end of what's considered "realistic" then here's my top ten list before E3.

Spoiler: List

View attachment 152404

And here it is analyzed for actual realism.

Spoiler: List

View attachment 152406

So as it turns out, the only possible (Not even likely, mind you) newcomers that I want from my top ten are ALL THIRD PARTIES.

And here's a template if you want to put your picks on a defined 1-10 scale.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Well, if we're going off the deep-end of what's considered "realistic" then here's my top ten list before E3.

Spoiler: List

View attachment 152404

And here it is analyzed for actual realism.

Spoiler: List

View attachment 152406

So as it turns out, the only possible (Not even likely, mind you) newcomers that I want from my top ten are ALL THIRD PARTIES.

I wouldn't write off "Anything SMT" if it's Persona related. Persona is iconic, and I could well see either Joker or Yu Narukami in this game (Yu's already been in fighting games like Persona 4 Arena and the newest BlazBlue game) being in the game.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

There was a Pokemon conversation last night? Aww man. Can't believe I missed it. Those have been pretty scarce lately. Nice to get back to some of the done to death pre-E3 conversations every once in a while.

Well, in an attempt to rekindle the topic, which of the three big contenders - Decidueye, Mimikyu, and Lycanroc (purposely leaving out Incineroar because not much has changed for him) - do you think took the biggest hit after the info we got following E3?

Decidueye - Ivysaur returned and it might have been too early for Sakurai to know about its involvement with Pokken.
Mimikyu - Pichu returned and popularity likely wouldn't have been a factor.
Lycanroc - Might have been too early for Sakurai to know about the Dusk form.

For me, I'd say Decidueye. Not so much because it would no longer be the only grass type, but because I noticed a lot of people switching over to say Incineroar is the most likely. Feels like people are looking more toward the anime and timing when they consider a Pokemon's chances.

With a roster supposedly being finalized in 2015, I seriously doubt that there was any concept art for Lycanroc's Dusk form yet. Even then, I never really considered Lycanroc to be a real contender. It may have a chance as a Poke Ball Pokemon, but that's probably it.

Mimikyu, it feels more like Poke Ball Pokemon material, if not an enemy for Smash Run.

Decidueye, it didn't start shining until 2017 in Pokken Tournament DX. And after that, Game Freak hardly did much, if anything for it. Concept art and Sakurai's thoughts are its only real saving grace, but even then, it has to compete with Incineroar, who has far more going for it right now.

 

[Troykv]

So as it turns out, the only possible (Not even likely, mind you) newcomers that I want from my top ten are ALL THIRD PARTIES.

Wow; that is very ironic; because a lot of people try to calm down their expectations about Third Parties xDU

 

[osby]

Who thinks a semi clone of would be cool. They could switch around the evolution stages or they could do pokemon starters from other regions. Example: , ,and or piplup, grotle, and infernape

Clones don't work like that.

 

[blackghost]

I have her in my top 10 most wanted and honestly, in terms of "Wii era legends," you'd be hard-pressed to find one bigger than Amaterasu. (Well, there's Travis Touchdown, but he's kinda... adult)

adult means nothing. a chaarcter is not ruled out based on the origin game's rating. among new sword users, travis is among the most requested.
Amaterasu as a capcom rep would be cool but there are many characters that should get in before her. Travis and ammy main issue is character popularity and appeal. neither character has had a profound impact long term and iffy sales at best. Okami has been released like 4 times i think.

 

[osby]

I wouldn't write off "Anything SMT" if it's Persona related. Persona is iconic, and I could well see either Joker or Yu Narukami in this game (Yu's already been in fighting games like Persona 4 Arena and the newest BlazBlue game) being in the game.

Persona is a spin-off of Shin Megami Tensei. They aren't that related. Like, Wario and Mario.

 

[Idon]

I wouldn't write off "Anything SMT" if it's Persona related. Persona is iconic, and I could well see either Joker or Yu Narukami in this game (Yu's already been in fighting games like Persona 4 Arena and the newest BlazBlue game) being in the game.

Yeah, but I'm specifically referring to mainline SMT.
It's entirely possible that Persona is going to be repped through the power of sheer popularity.

However, what I personally want is a demon summoner and not a stand user.
That or a guy who is a demon.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

"Better hope you placed that block correctly, because the transforming stage might wipe it out."


Me? A Monster? No... I'm the Devil!

So below Hades and worse than Bayo..ok then

 

[Slavic]

Personally when it comes to Wyvern Riders and Dracoknights, there's one I'd definitely love to see.

Seriously though, Minerva's great.

Minerva's a trendsetter, I'd much rather have her over Camilla. (Also she can technically wield all three weapon groups, so that could be cool too)

 

[Impa4Smash]

Persona is a spin-off of Shin Megami Tensei. They aren't that related. Like, Wario and Mario.

Unless Jack Frost gets in

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Well, if we're going off the deep-end of what's considered "realistic" then here's my top ten list before E3.

Spoiler: List

View attachment 152404

And here it is analyzed for actual realism.

Spoiler: List

View attachment 152406

So as it turns out, the only possible (Not even likely, mind you) newcomers that I want from my top ten are ALL THIRD PARTIES.

Bayonetta and Snake both show that Mature themes, violence, gore and all of that are fine, I don't think that'll be the thing holding those characters back

 

[osby]

Yeah, but I'm specifically referring to mainline SMT.
It's entirely possible that Persona is going to be repped through the power of sheer popularity.

However, what I personally want is a demon summoner and not a stand user.
That or a guy who is a demon.

To be honest, Personas aren't Stands.

 

[RandomAce]

I'd say harder, Rest's hitbox is Puff's forehead right? Easier to determine at any given time

Yeah, the sweetspot is TINY. While Jigglypuff’s rest is her entire body.

Ridley’s Down B is really situation and near useless with it’s lag, damage, weird range, and miniscule hitboxes.

 

[Idon]

Personally when it comes to Wyvern Riders and Dracoknights, there's one I'd definitely love to see.

Seriously though, Minerva's great.

The only issue I see with Minerva and "Rider" characters in general is mount implementation. You'd either have to have a huge janky creature glued to the character OR only implement them for special attacks which would take away some of their uniqueness.

adult means nothing. a chaarcter is not ruled out based on the origin game's rating. among new sword users, travis is among the most requested.
Amaterasu as a capcom rep would be cool but there are many characters that should get in before her. Travis and ammy main issue is character popularity and appeal. neither character has had a profound impact long term and iffy sales at best. Okami has been released like 4 times i think.

Bayonetta and Snake both show that Mature themes, violence, gore and all of that are fine, I don't think that'll be the thing holding those characters back

I'm not saying Travis is impossible, hell, I hope he isn't. However I do think that he might have some more hurdles to jump through than some other third parties. Plus he has that battery recharge animation which I swear to God, HAS to make it in if Travis is making it.

 

[monadoboy]

I rather have Takumi be the "Archer" in the leak; I just love his design. At the very least DLC PLEASE.

I really want tacomeat to make it, but it's so unlikely. Takumi's fun to use in Birthright/Rev, Warriors and I love his new summer alt in Heroes. 100% he'd be great in Smash. Fujin Yumi got that wind thing going for it, along with being a dedicated archer instead of a mix like Pit.

 

[Mr. Game + Watch]

Clones don't work like that.

I dont understand what you mean toon link is a semiclone of link but he is a different size so why wouldnt it work for pokemon trainer. The biggest thing you would to get rid of is the flying mechanic for charizard.

 

[Arcanir]

Omg I love her!!! Niles is my favorite but she's probably my favorite lady. Her character was just...just great lol. I was planning to do another run where she marries my Corrin because whatever it takes to get an in with the royal family right?

While that's true it's also important to know that Lycanroc relies heavily on its impact in the anime and as Ash's ace. In the game it has little special screen time (Where as the starters are starters and Mimikyu has a Trial dedicated to it). And in the anime Ash's Lycanroc is Dusk form so..

I guess what I'm saying is if you're gunna argue Lycanroc getting in as midday or midnight it has to be without the anime as support, which isnt much. I wouldnt be surprised if Lycanroc got it, but I would if it was anything but Dusk form.

(For comparison it's like saying regular Exeggcutor has a chance because it's Alolan form is heavily marketed and featured in the game).

Lycanroc actaully had a good amount of promotion even before Dusk.
-Rockruff was notably promoted on it's own, appearing across a number of CoroCoros to hype it and other Pokemon up.
-The Lycanrocs' debut were hyped up exclusively and given their own spread in Corocoro.
-The line had a two shot manga called Pokemon Horizon that came out before SM.
-Midnight was in the movie alongside Incineroar (albeit, not the ace).
-Lycanroc headed it's own TCG set.

Granted, the latter two go into 2017, but they still existed before Dusk was showcased. All in all, while Dusk has the most love, the other two weren't slacking, they were up there with Mimikyu as one of SM's most promoted Pokemon.

As for the question that started this, I don't think anything really changed for the Alola Elite Four. Lycanroc I already explained, Mimikyu still possibly had its early promotion locked in around SM's reveal, and the other two are starters. The type trio thing was always questionable since Smash 4 shown that it wasn't a thing outside of PT, so that shouldn't have been a huge consideration by the developers going into their decision in the first place, and we don't know how far ahead merchandising and advertising is planned so at least 2016 in its entirety can still be fair game.

 

[Idon]

I dont understand what you mean toon link is a semiclone of link but he is a different size so why wouldnt it work for pokemon trainer. The biggest thing you would to get rid of is the flying mechanic for charizard.

Because the limbs are completely different. A HUGE chunk of moves don't match with other pokemon.
Like Infernape cannot fly, Grotle cannot spin leaf blades, and piplup doesn't even have a tail.

 

[AlphaSSB]

So I think based off reading this thread and the various "leaks" I think I have what seem to be the consensus top 10 most likely characters. Let's play a game, order these 10 in who you believe is most likely to least likely to be playable. Here's mine....

1. King K Rool
2. Dixie Kong
3. Simon Belmont
4. Isabelle
5. Shadow
6. Geno
7. Ashley
8. Elma
9. Decidueye
10. Bandana Dee

1) Dixie Kong
2) Isabelle
3) Elma
4) Decidueye
5) King K. Rool
6) Bandana Dee
7) Geno
8) Simon
9) Ashley
10) Shadow

 

[KMDP]

I'd also say "A Zelda character" and Krystal were up there as well, hence her inclusion as an assist trophy and with Midna, Ghirahim, Skull Kid, Tingle, Impa, Tetra and all the rest Zelda characters in general probably got a lot of votes. Same for Pokemon. Isabelle could have been up there too

Yeah, I should have put "A Zelda Character" instead of Crash, tbh. And Krystal over Simon Belmont.

The one thing about Zelda Characters is that there are so many good ones to pick that the votes were probably hyper diluted.

Midna, Ghirahim, Skull Kid, Tingle, Impa, Tetra, Vaati, Linkle, Lana, Groose, Pig Ganon.

Characters like Ridley, Inklings, K. Rool, Dixie, Ashley and Isaac probably stuck out more than the myriad Zelda characters simply because they are specific requests.

 

[Idon]

To be honest, Personas aren't Stands.

They're spirits that are physical manifestations of one's mental power in the shape of a humanoid creature.

They've gotta be at least close, right?