Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Arcadenik]

Too late

Totally worth getting a warning.

Ahh... N64 memories. Sure wish Nintendo and Microsoft would include Conker’s Bad Fur Day on N64 Classic Edition... But I doubt it would happen. They probably would include only Donkey Kong 64... no Diddy Kong Racing and no Banjo-Kazooie games.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Ahh... N64 memories. Sure wish Nintendo and Microsoft would include Conker’s Bad Fur Day on N64 Classic Edition... But I doubt it would happen. They probably would include only Donkey Kong 64... no Diddy Kong Racing and no Banjo-Kazooie games.

Which would suck because DK64 has some awful design choices when compared to the other 64 games Rare did.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Considering today's younger audiences, I think that's exactly why it would be tolerated.

Still, any sign of vulgar language would easily result in an M-rated game.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Still, any sign of vulgar language would easily result in an M-rated game.

Good point.

 

[Arcadenik]

Which would suck because DK64 has some awful design choices when compared to the other 64 games Rare did.

Yeah. N64 Classic with Super Mario 64, Donkey Kong 64, and Banjo-Kazooie would be perfect. Banjo-Tooie on top of these three would be better.

 

[N3ON]

I think the Great Mighty Poo could probably exist in an E10 game. Not entirely sure.

However once he starts singing it goes right up to M.

Ahh... N64 memories. Sure wish Nintendo and Microsoft would include Conker’s Bad Fur Day on N64 Classic Edition... But I doubt it would happen. They probably would include only Donkey Kong 64... no Diddy Kong Racing and no Banjo-Kazooie games.

An N64 Classic is going to feel kinda hollow without Rare imo...

Banjo-Kazooie
Banjo-Tooie
Conker's BFD
Goldeneye
Perfect Dark
Diddy Kong Racing
Killer Instinct...

there was other stuff too but those are seminal titles. In part because the N64 did not have the wealth of games other Nintendo systems have had. *sigh*

 

[Arcadenik]

I think the Great Mighty Poo could probably exist in an E10 game. Not entirely sure.

However once he starts singing it goes right up to M.


An N64 Classic is going to feel kinda hollow without Rare imo...

Banjo-Kazooie
Banjo-Tooie
Conker's BFD
Goldeneye
Perfect Dark
Diddy Kong Racing
Killer Instinct...

there was other stuff too but those are seminal titles. In part because the N64 did not have the wealth of games other Nintendo systems have had. *sigh*

Without Rare, it’s hard to find quality third-party games for the N64... wow, the third-party support was abysmal on the N64. But I wouldn’t complain if it got a Castlevania game. I liked both though I prefer Legacy of Darkness since it has four different playable characters, including a werewolf.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I think the Great Mighty Poo could probably exist in an E10 game. Not entirely sure.

However once he starts singing it goes right up to M.

M for Marvelous

 

[A Distant Demon]

When you see someone blatantly breaking the rules, don't like the post.


Report it.

 

[N3ON]

Without Rare, it’s hard to find quality third-party games for the N64... wow, the third-party support was abysmal on the N64. But I wouldn’t complain if it got a Castlevania game. I liked both though I prefer Legacy of Darkness since it has four different playable characters, including a werewolf.

Tbh I probably wouldn't even pick up an N64 classic. Without Rare there are only a few titles on there I care for that I haven't played on VC or as a re-release. :/

And fwiw, Rare wasn't even really much of a third-party considering Nintendo published, funded, and co-owned so much of their output from that time.

When you see someone blatantly breaking the rules, don't like the post.


Report it.

Winners don't use drugs.

 

[Zem-raj]

I think the story should be changed a bit... instead of toys (Smash 64) or trophies (Melee and Brawl), they are amiibos.

The "trophies" are more of action figures than actual trophies (why they're labelled as trophies in western markets, I don't know). They're known as "figures" in Japanese versions of Melee and Brawl, and figures are toys. Amiibo are figurines, thus they are still toys. So they don't really need to change the story really =P

 

[N3ON]

Nintendo seems to be getting further and further from the whole "they're toys" theme. I mean it's still there, but they've gone from being toys in a bedroom to trophies come to life, to characters turned into trophies, and Smash 4 did away will all that iirc, apart from ways to keep track of characters like in Classic and All-Star...

Though perhaps that's just because it lacked a story mode or real intro.

 

[Krysco]

Suppose I've lurked here long enough. Plus posting automatically makes me watch the thread. Not much of one for speculation since to my understanding, we don't even know if another Smash game is being made atm but I'll throw in my own for now.

Wanting Wolf back first off. Part of my disliking towards Sm4sh is the lack of him although they could've ruined him for me like they did Pika and to a lesser extent Ganondorf. Also wanting any combination of Ganon, the one that's a beast and walks on two legs and uses a trident, Toon Ganondorf and/or current Ganondorf with a more original moveset. What little he has to reference from his games is pathetic. No iconic Dead Man's Valley, no sword save for a taunt and a move that has to be unlocked, heck, no actual magic as far as I'm concerned. It's all effects on otherwise normal moves. Ganon jabs and misses? It's just him stretching out his arm. He hits? Oh, now there's electric magic. The trails on moves don't count, otherwise even Mario has 'magic'. Compare to Zelda who has sparkles no matter what as a means of showing she's using magic. Same goes for Robin. If current Ganondorf gets a more original moveset, either give his current one to an F-ZERO character or as a more amusing idea, put that chest wound to good use. Have the sword stuck in the wound and he has his current moveset and then when he taunts, he pulls it out and gets a sword and magic one. The whole 'no more transforming characters' shouldn't be an issue because that was just a limitation of the 3DS. No such thing should apply for the Switch. Unless there's been confirmation in an interview that transforming characters are done.

Speaking of which, further 'speculation', put Zelda and Sheik back together, bring back Ice Climbers. Maybe make Toon Zelda and Tetra to complete the Toon Triforce Trio but honestly, I just want Toon Ganondorf so we have a Ganon that actually uses swords. I would say Krystal from Starfox but she hardly means anything so I doubt she'll get in. Either get Dark Pit and Lucina out of here or immediately Luigify them.

As for the current poll, honestly, when Sm4sh was in development and we were getting pictures every weekday, I wanted Bowser Jr in but with a moveset based on his magic brush. That's not happening now so after that, Paper Mario. Diverse enough to only be similar to Mario in name and appearance. Just a damn shame he'd likely focus on stickers and paint.

Anyways, likely not gonna post here often but I've been lurking long enough since discussion here is entertaining...cept for that bit earlier with the K Rool names. K Rool himself would be a cool addition though.

Oh and last bit that just came to mind, wanting Ridley, honestly just to shut people up about him. I personally love Metroid and think Ridley is a really cool character but I was never big on him getting into Smash.

 

[BowserK.Rool]

Which would suck because DK64 has some awful design choices when compared to the other 64 games Rare did.

I disagree, I thought they were all good.

Still, any sign of vulgar language would easily result in an M-rated game.

Yet here we have Bayonetta who's whole appeal is towards an M rated audience. And I'm pretty sure one of her taunts is a sexual innuendo.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I disagree, I thought they were all good.

Even the fact that there were several different types of collectibles in every level, each being only catchable by a single character, forcing you to switch between them constantly or play the same level multiple times for completion which, may I remind you, is the entire point of a collect-a-thon?

 

[BowserK.Rool]

Even the fact that there were several different types of collectibles in every level, each being only catchable by a single character, forcing you to switch between them constantly or play the same level multiple times for completion which, may I remind you, is the entire point of a collect-a-thon?

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Yet here we have Bayonetta who's whole appeal is towards an M rated audience. And I'm pretty sure one of her taunts is a sexual innuendo.

At least she's optional DLC.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Let Jiggs live, without her we'd only have one cutesy Pokemon, and Pokemon is renowned for it's cutesy Pokes. She's also super easy to make.
Also why not just add Magikarp potentially evolving? Just because it's not going to have the exact same role as Goldeen in a few rare instances doesn't mean it shouldn't replace it. It'll be a good feint, seeing Magikarp pop out and feeling let down only for it to evolve a few seconds later.

No. That's exactly why it shouldn't replace it. There's no point if they don't share the exact same role. It's change for the sake of change, which is pretty much always a bad idea. Replacing it but also doing something more is somewhat better, but then it just takes out an iconic Pokeball Pokemon that veteran players have seen for ages.

It would've made sense during Melee when they heavily changed out many Pokemon for similar roles. The boat is missed at this point, and it no longer serves any legit purpose. It's just catering to a tiny few people who actually care, when it doesn't actually change a single thing in the game that matters. We're not talking about something halfway worth doing like buffing bad characters. We're talking about changing an establish NPC role for the entire sake of it.

A better idea is having Magikarp as a stage hazard, one you can easily hit, which would make it evolve after a reasonable amount. This actually fits what Magikarp is known for in the anime, which tends to be "screw you who abused me, I'm going to evolve and kick your ass." Never mind the fact that it's actually often shown as constantly being badass/rather courageous in the anime anyway, not its usage of Splash.

 

[BowserK.Rool]

At least she's optional DLC.

I can see the same thing happening with Sloprano if he were ever to get in an SSB game. (Obviously it won't happen, it was just a joke)

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Yet here we have Bayonetta who's whole appeal is towards an M rated audience. And I'm pretty sure one of her taunts is a sexual innuendo.

May I remind you that Snake happened in Brawl too?

Sure, pretty much everything that warranted the Metal Gear Solid games a M rating wasn't in Brawl, but it's still the rating the games got.

Point is, regardless of the rating of a character's source material, if it can be put in Smash without ruining the game's rating nor the character, it doesn't matter where they come from.

EDIT: Though in Bayonetta's case, there had to be a lot of censoring, especially when it comes to the Wicked Weaves.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

. And I'm pretty sure one of her taunts is a sexual innuendo.

Only one?

You miss the hundreds throughout Smash?

Lol.



That said, innuendo is much different than just plain vulgarity.

 

[N3ON]

No. That's exactly why it shouldn't replace it. There's no point if they don't share the exact same role. It's change for the sake of change, which is pretty much always a bad idea. Replacing it but also doing something more is somewhat better, but then it just takes out an iconic Pokeball Pokemon that veteran players have seen for ages.

It would've made sense during Melee when they heavily changed out many Pokemon for similar roles. The boat is missed at this point, and it no longer serves any legit purpose. It's just catering to a tiny few people who actually care, when it doesn't actually change a single thing in the game that matters. We're not talking about something halfway worth doing like buffing bad characters. We're talking about changing an establish NPC role for the entire sake of it.

A better idea is having Magikarp as a stage hazard, one you can easily hit, which would make it evolve after a reasonable amount. This actually fits what Magikarp is known for in the anime, which tends to be "screw you who abused me, I'm going to evolve and kick your ***." Never mind the fact that it's actually often shown as constantly being badass/rather courageous in the anime anyway, not its usage of Splash.

Hey, they get rid of characters for worse reasons than they were replaced by a more popular, more interesting alternative. Changing out a character with one that shares the exact same role is changing for the sake of changing, changing one out for a character with an expanded role is changing for the sake of progress. And that seems like as decent reason as any to change an established NPC role. Especially an unpopular one. Frankly I'd rather take that dev time and bring back a previously cut completely unique Pokemon than embrace the notion of two mostly useless floppy fishies.

Sure one's a "vet" Pokemon, but it's definitely one of if not the most disliked of all; I don't think the mourning period would be particularly long or intense. This isn't even the first time people have called for Goldeen to be replaced by Magikarp & Gyarados. Even when they cut popular Pokemon people don't really spend an inordinate amount of time bemoaning their loss. It's not like this is the actual roster.

Ofc I don't think this will happen, but it'd be nice.

 

[Luminario]

No. That's exactly why it shouldn't replace it. There's no point if they don't share the exact same role. It's change for the sake of change, which is pretty much always a bad idea. Replacing it but also doing something more is somewhat better, but then it just takes out an iconic Pokeball Pokemon that veteran players have seen for ages.

It would've made sense during Melee when they heavily changed out many Pokemon for similar roles. The boat is missed at this point, and it no longer serves any legit purpose. It's just catering to a tiny few people who actually care, when it doesn't actually change a single thing in the game that matters. We're not talking about something halfway worth doing like buffing bad characters. We're talking about changing an establish NPC role for the entire sake of it.

A better idea is having Magikarp as a stage hazard, one you can easily hit, which would make it evolve after a reasonable amount. This actually fits what Magikarp is known for in the anime, which tends to be "screw you who abused me, I'm going to evolve and kick your ***." Never mind the fact that it's actually often shown as constantly being badass/rather courageous in the anime anyway, not its usage of Splash.

It's not change for the sake of change, it's change for the sake of making more sense. Magikarp's entire thing is Splash, and Goldeen's only shown to be useless in a single scene in the anime. People also like references to canon abilities, an example being the positive reactions to Link's and DK's dash attacks, so it would be a welcome change. Not only that, but add in a small chance for it to evolve simply gives Magikarp itself more presence on the field, as it's essentially the opposite of Voltorb's dud explosion.

Pokemon have also changed for no reason already. Staryu, Snivy, and Oshawott are all pokemon that had no reason to replace already established pokemon yet it happened. I guarantee more people will be thankful on the change to Magikarp alone.

 

[Deleted member]

There's literally no point in swapping out Goldeen with Magikarp.

 

[BowserK.Rool]

There's literally no point in swapping out Goldeen with Magikarp.

How about this pokemon?

 

[Deleted member]

How about this pokemon?

....there's even less point for Psyduck replacing Goldeen.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Progress doesn't work much when it's still an iconic NPC role. Or for that matter, the fact that progress would've made sense back when there was a legit chance to do so. It's still entirely for the sake of it because as noted, Magikarp and Goldeen have different roles in the anime.

Magikarp is not known for Splash in the anime. It barely used it. It's known for evolving into Gyarados and later on having a courageous personality. As well as the fact it beat Pikachu via the Swift Swim ability in a battle.

They never had the same role, and since Pokeball Pokemon that were replaced actually had the same role or ability that people knew it for, it made some sense. Beedrill being replaced with Unown showed exactly what they did, fly around. Staryu and Starmie did the same moves anyway. In fact, it was their signature anime move. That's a legit example of progress. It also happened quickly enough that it didn't get people intertwined into a character role either. That matters a lot. Piplup using Bubblebeam? Yep, such an underused move in the anime... wait. Heck, same thing with the original Starter Trio. In fact, Pokemon Trainer even has his 3 use the same signature moves among their specials. The point of the Pokeball Pokemon is to be based upon what their signature thing is in the anime specifically. This idea doesn't really make sense because it completely craps on what Magikarp is actually supposed to be in the Anime. Useless Pokemon? No. Pokemon with Hidden Depths was always its role. You aren't replacing anything with a "similar" role, you're removing a role while making an entirely new Pokemon that sounds more fun. It would make some sense to remove Goldeen and the role entirely because it was never fun to deal with. Magikarp should actually be what it's supposed to be, a Pokemon that causes immense trouble after evolving. However you want to portray that is hard to say. Have it jump in water? Have it need to get hit a few times? But at least it'd be accurate to its proper role(which is not lolSplash).

Goldeen never had a different role, so it made sense that its role is kept. There is no Pokemon in the anime who has that actual role, where they solely appear to just splash around on the ground useless. And only that. If there is, it isn't Magikarp, that's for sure. People are looking just at one move that's signature in the games, while ignoring the anime, and that's the issue entirely. Finding a replacement for Goldeen from the anime is pretty hard, since it's one of a kind.

 

[Luminario]

Progress doesn't work much when it's still an iconic NPC role. Or for that matter, the fact that progress would've made sense back when there was a legit chance to do so. It's still entirely for the sake of it because as noted, Magikarp and Goldeen have different roles in the anime.

Magikarp is not known for Splash in the anime. It barely used it. It's known for evolving into Gyarados and later on having a courageous personality. As well as the fact it beat Pikachu via the Swift Swim ability in a battle.

They never had the same role, and since Pokeball Pokemon that were replaced actually had the same role or ability that people knew it for, it made some sense. Beedrill being replaced with Unown showed exactly what they did, fly around. Staryu and Starmie did the same moves anyway. In fact, it was their signature anime move. That's a legit example of progress. It also happened quickly enough that it didn't get people intertwined into a character role either. That matters a lot. Piplup using Bubblebeam? Yep, such an underused move in the anime... wait. Heck, same thing with the original Starter Trio. In fact, Pokemon Trainer even has his 3 use the same signature moves among their specials. The point of the Pokeball Pokemon is to be based upon what their signature thing is in the anime specifically. This idea doesn't really make sense because it completely craps on what Magikarp is actually supposed to be in the Anime. Useless Pokemon? No. Pokemon with Hidden Depths was always its role. You aren't replacing anything with a "similar" role, you're removing a role while making an entirely new Pokemon that sounds more fun. It would make some sense to remove Goldeen and the role entirely because it was never fun to deal with. Magikarp should actually be what it's supposed to be, a Pokemon that causes immense trouble after evolving. However you want to portray that is hard to say. Have it jump in water? Have it need to get hit a few times? But at least it'd be accurate to its proper role(which is not lolSplash).

Goldeen never had a different role, so it made sense that its role is kept. There is no Pokemon in the anime who has that actual role, where they solely appear to just splash around on the ground useless. And only that. If there is, it isn't Magikarp, that's for sure. People are looking just at one move that's signature in the games, while ignoring the anime, and that's the issue entirely. Finding a replacement for Goldeen from the anime is pretty hard, since it's one of a kind.

You're putting way too much stock into the anime here. Did Oshawott ever use Surf in the anime? Did Zoroark ever use Fury Swipes? Giratina with Dragon Breath? Meloetta with Echoed Voice? Splash isn't even Goldeen's role in the anime, it's role was to attack anything that angered it with Horn Attack. The anime doesn't decide the role of Pokemon in Smash, they're just both going off the same concept. The only situations I can think of where a Pokemon summon is using a move that isn't iconic to them thanks to the anime is Goldeen and Togepi.

I don't understand why you'd be against this, Goldeen does literally nothing as a summon anyway. The only thing that would likely change when going to Magikarp is that no one will ask "why is Goldeen using Splash? isn't that what Magikarp does".

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You're putting way too much stock into the anime here. Did Oshawott ever use Surf in the anime? Did Zoroark ever use Fury Swipes? Giratina with Dragon Breath? Meloetta with Echoed Voice? Splash isn't even Goldeen's role in the anime, it's role was to attack anything that angered it with Horn Attack. The anime doesn't decide the role of Pokemon in Smash, they're just both going off the same concept. The only situations I can think of where a Pokemon summon is using a move that isn't iconic to them thanks to the anime is Goldeen and Togepi.

The anime absolutely does decide roles. Even Sakurai has noted that's how he chooses many Pokemon. So yeah, it does matter. I'm putting tons of stock into it because that's actually what happens in the Smash series. There being a very small amount of exceptions doesn't change that the anime heavily influences Pokemon. You think these Pokemon mostly got in just cause of the latest games? No. They all showed up in the anime too, including movies and major roles. While the moves aren't always the same, the anime beyond heavily decides the series.

I don't understand why you'd be against this, Goldeen does literally nothing as a summon anyway. The only thing that would likely change when going to Magikarp is that no one will ask "why is Goldeen using Splash? isn't that what Magikarp does".

Because the change is pointless and does nothing useful. It's still for the sake of it. It can't be called legit progress. It's already the role people recognize when playing multiple Smash games and expect it. There are worthwhile changes that aren't a shoehorned in model change. Remove it from the Master Ball lineup. Allow it to do a Horn Attack when it goes into water, which should be rare, but possible.

Magikarp fits better as its own thing. It makes perfect sense as a stage hazard that fits what its role is, being a severe badass when angered. It also is immensely strong in the water, the correct role it assumes. It barely shows up on land as well, meaning that no, it's not the real role it's known for. People don't recognize Magikarp's role in the games for Splash, people recognize it for evolving into a strong and useful Pokemon. No more, no less.

 

[Opossum]

An aesthetic change isn't a useless change if the change makes sense.

Splash is absolutely what Magikarp is known for.

 

[N3ON]

Progress doesn't work much when it's still an iconic NPC role. Or for that matter, the fact that progress would've made sense back when there was a legit chance to do so. It's still entirely for the sake of it because as noted, Magikarp and Goldeen have different roles in the anime.

Magikarp is not known for Splash in the anime. It barely used it. It's known for evolving into Gyarados and later on having a courageous personality. As well as the fact it beat Pikachu via the Swift Swim ability in a battle.

They never had the same role, and since Pokeball Pokemon that were replaced actually had the same role or ability that people knew it for, it made some sense. Beedrill being replaced with Unown showed exactly what they did, fly around. Staryu and Starmie did the same moves anyway. In fact, it was their signature anime move. That's a legit example of progress. It also happened quickly enough that it didn't get people intertwined into a character role either. That matters a lot. Piplup using Bubblebeam? Yep, such an underused move in the anime... wait. Heck, same thing with the original Starter Trio. In fact, Pokemon Trainer even has his 3 use the same signature moves among their specials. The point of the Pokeball Pokemon is to be based upon what their signature thing is in the anime specifically. This idea doesn't really make sense because it completely craps on what Magikarp is actually supposed to be in the Anime. Useless Pokemon? No. Pokemon with Hidden Depths was always its role. You aren't replacing anything with a "similar" role, you're removing a role while making an entirely new Pokemon that sounds more fun. It would make some sense to remove Goldeen and the role entirely because it was never fun to deal with. Magikarp should actually be what it's supposed to be, a Pokemon that causes immense trouble after evolving. However you want to portray that is hard to say. Have it jump in water? Have it need to get hit a few times? But at least it'd be accurate to its proper role(which is not lolSplash).

Goldeen never had a different role, so it made sense that its role is kept. There is no Pokemon in the anime who has that actual role, where they solely appear to just splash around on the ground useless. And only that. If there is, it isn't Magikarp, that's for sure. People are looking just at one move that's signature in the games, while ignoring the anime, and that's the issue entirely. Finding a replacement for Goldeen from the anime is pretty hard, since it's one of a kind.

First of all, I disagree with the entire anime pretence. Yeah, lots of times things are shared with the anime. Oftentimes the anime itself bases the Pokemon's moves off their signature or most popular/powerful attacks from the games. Like, is it a surprise Blastoise would use hydro pump? And then other times, Smash does not reflect the anime. Ask Marill, Meowth, Piplup & Cyndaquil (whose attacks didn't reflect how the anime portrayed them), Chansey, Zoroark, Weavile, Snivy, Suicune, among many others. Or Porygon2, that thing is never getting a substantial anime appearance. There are plenty of exceptions to your "rule". Second of all, summoning a Magikarp to have it evolve into a Gyarados does exemplify a Pokemon with hidden depths, as much as you could hope for on the roster.

And lastly, even if you believe all Pokemon to be based on the anime...

Afaik, this is the anime Magikarp most are familiar with. Look at it, splashing uselessly in the water, splashing uselessly on the ground (the characters basically saying as much) and then evolving. So I dunno what you're on about.

 

[Luminario]

People don't recognize Magikarp's role in the games for Splash, people recognize it for evolving into a strong and useful Pokemon. No more, no less.

People recognize it for doing both. People know Magikarp as the useless Splash fish that you train with Exp Share until it evolves, it's who it is as a Pokemon.

I'll agree with you on the anime shaping the Pokemon in Smash, We probably wouldn't have seen Jiggs or Mewtwo if it wasn't thanks to the anime, but the Goldeen Splash scene was almost two decades ago while Magikarp being "the Splash Pokemon" is in every single game so far, so it's only logical to make the switch.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

First of all, I disagree with the entire anime pretence. Yeah, lots of times things are shared with the anime. Oftentimes the anime itself bases the Pokemon's moves off their signature or most popular/powerful attacks from the games. Like, is it a surprise Blastoise would use hydro pump? And then other times, Smash does not reflect the anime. Ask Marill, Meowth, Piplup & Cyndaquil (whose attacks didn't reflect how the anime portrayed them), Chansey, Zoroark, Weavile, Snivy, Suicune, among many others. Or the fact that Porygon2 was a thing, that thing is never getting a substantial anime appearance. There are plenty of exceptions to your "rule". Second of all, summoning a Magikarp to have it evolve into a Gyarados does exemplify a Pokemon with hidden depths, as much as you could hope for on the roster.

And lastly, even if you believe all Pokemon to be based on the anime...

Afaik, this is the anime Magikarp most are familiar with. Look at it, splashing uselessly in the water, splashing uselessly on the ground (the characters basically saying as much) and then evolving. So I dunno what you're on about.

Yeah, and the same episode has it evolve and obliterate everyone without remorse. Don't pretend that isn't important.

I already told you there were a tiny few exceptions, but the majority were added due to the anime. Porygon was a blatant advertisement of the new Pokemon, and was nothing more than just using the evolution to show off the latest games. Lots of advertisements, yeah. This makes some sense, since all they did was replace it with the latest evolution only. Nothing changed beyond that, because there was not much else to change that could work. Porygon's signature abilities were changing types. It also had Tackle, being a Normal type. You can't implement the other stuff feasibly. It's an example of where you can legit replace them. Goldeen is not a good example of something worth replacing for the literal sake of it. And no, I do not acknowledge that Magikarp is most known for Splash because it's bull. I acknowledge it's one move it knows, but it also used Flail in its first anime appearance, not Splash, as well as evolved in another major one, and used Tackle and yet another one. Not exactly surprising that it uses all its known moves and abilities over and over again. So saying it's just lolSplash is always going to be inaccurate.

People recognize it for doing both. People know Magikarp as the useless Splash fish that you train with Exp Share until it evolves, it's who it is as a Pokemon.

I'll agree with you on the anime shaping the Pokemon in Smash, We probably wouldn't have seen Jiggs or Mewtwo if it wasn't thanks to the anime, but the Goldeen Splash scene was almost two decades ago while Magikarp being "the Splash Pokemon" is in every single game so far, so it's only logical to make the switch.

No, it's logical to give it its full due. Magikarp is absolutely still known for the evolution. In fact, that's the reason people bothered with it. A signature move is only one thing. If it weren't for the evolution, nobody would care. An aesthetic change only is a lazy idea that does nothing more than ruins a character because of a minority of people who care.

Actually, Mewtwo was immensely popular outside of the anime. But since Sakurai looks to the anime for almost every Pokemon choice, yeah, true. Literally one exception, and that's due to how he wanted to add characters from upcoming games as well. Greninja, Shulk, Corrin, and possibly more examples I can't think of at this time.

 

[Luminario]

Yeah, and the same episode has it evolve and obliterate everyone without remorse. Don't pretend that isn't important.

I already told you there were a tiny few exceptions, but the majority were added due to the anime. Porygon was a blatant advertisement of the new Pokemon, and was nothing more than just using the evolution to show off the latest games. Lots of advertisements, yeah. This makes some sense, since all they did was replace it with the latest evolution only. Nothing changed beyond that, because there was not much else to change that could work. Porygon's signature abilities were changing types. It also had Tackle, being a Normal type. You can't implement the other stuff feasibly. It's an example of where you can legit replace them. Goldeen is not a good example of something worth replacing for the literal sake of it. And no, I do not acknowledge that Magikarp is most known for Splash because it's bull. I acknowledge it's one move it knows, but it also used Flail in its first anime appearance, not Splash, as well as evolved in another major one, and used Tackle and yet another one. Not exactly surprising that it uses all its known moves and abilities over and over again. So saying it's just lolSplash is always going to be inaccurate.


No, it's logical to give it its full due. Magikarp is absolutely still known for the evolution. In fact, that's the reason people bothered with it. A signature move is only one thing. If it weren't for the evolution, nobody would care. An aesthetic change only is a lazy idea that does nothing more than ruins a character because of a minority of people who care.

Actually, Mewtwo was immensely popular outside of the anime. But since Sakurai looks to the anime for almost every Pokemon choice, yeah, true. Literally one exception, and that's due to how he wanted to add characters from upcoming games as well. Greninja, Shulk, Corrin, and possibly more examples I can't think of at this time.

It's more inaccurate to show Goldeen as a useless Splash Pokemon than Magikarp, as Goldeen doesn't even learn Splash. Almost every single Pokedex entry states that Magikarp is weak and splashes around. If there is any other Pokemon more suited to being "the Splash Pokemon" please point them out. I'm aware it's thing is also to evolve into Gyarados, but at it's basic concept on it's own it's the Splash Pokemon. It was also the only Pokemon capable of learning Splash in gen 1, making it Magikarp's signature move.

 

[N3ON]

Yeah, and the same episode has it evolve and obliterate everyone without remorse. Don't pretend that isn't important.

That's part of what I was suggesting would be the Pokeball effect...

I already told you there were a tiny few exceptions, but the majority were added due to the anime.

I haven't watched the anime in years, I picked a few random Pokemon to corroborate my claims, and many did not correspond to the anime. Some did, sure, but often it was just their most well-known/associated attack even outside the anime. I can search further if you'd like. I mean I already listed like ten. But each post people make is slowly chipping away at your "rule" with more examples...

Porygon was a blatant advertisement of the new Pokemon, and was nothing more than just using the evolution to show off the latest games.

You think they want to use the PORYGON FAMILY to advertise something? You think advertisers want the masses (especially in Japan) to associate a product with Porygon? Oh dear.... it's not that.

Especially since there were a plethora of more popular, less stigmatizing choices for new cross-gen evolutions. Also, pretty sure Porygon's most famous attack is Tri-attack, not tackle (which fits with "changing types"). And that obv could've worked in Smash, they have all the necessary effects. So that's a double example, really.

And no, I do not acknowledge that Magikarp is most known for Splash because it's bull.

Well if you don't believe me, I'd encourage you to ask around as to which move people associate most with the fish. I think you'll be surprised.

 

[Deleted member]

This topic is pointless as ****.
You want Magikarp to show up so bad, go support the Magikarp Trainer from Magikarp Jump as a newcomer.


But seriously, all this ******** over ****ing Goldeen instead of Magikarp being the dud Pokémon summon is one of the lowest points I've seen out of this thread.

 

[N3ON]

This topic is pointless as ****.
You want Magikarp to show up so bad, go support the Magikarp Trainer from Magikarp Jump as a newcomer.


But seriously, all this ******** over ****ing Goldeen instead of Magikarp being the dud Pokémon summon is one of the lowest points I've seen out of this thread.

This is the first time I've had this debate and I'm enjoying it. It's more than I can say for most of the topics in here. You're free to talk about whatever you want.

 

[Arcadenik]

But since Sakurai looks to the anime for almost every Pokemon choice, yeah, true

Every time people talk about how Sakurai looks to the anime for almost every Pokémon choice, I keep thinking about that darn cat.

I really wish I am able to play as Meowth in Smash.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

This topic is pointless as ****.
You want Magikarp to show up so bad, go support the Magikarp Trainer from Magikarp Jump as a newcomer.


But seriously, all this ******** over ****ing Goldeen instead of Magikarp being the dud Pokémon summon is one of the lowest points I've seen out of this thread.

Agreed. It's not a problem and Magikarp has way more potential to be wasted on a poor-mon's replacement. Magikarp Trainer actually sounds fun and worthwhile. Although a stage hazard is still a pretty neat idea, since it could encompass his full capabilities and all his iconic traits.

Every time people talk about how Sakurai looks to the anime for almost every Pokémon choice, I keep thinking about that darn cat.

I really wish I am able to play as Meowth in Smash.

He's the last Gen 1 Pokemon I want(I feel we have all the Gen 1 Pokemon that are great for Smash through the series already. As in Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard). If there was a lot more character options and space, I could see him and many others in. Mind you, we know the roster won't become severely huge. But if it was, him, and at least per the other Gens sounds fun. Feasible, eh, not really. There's just a lot of fun ideas, but... yeah.

 

[PsychoJosh]

So I posted about this before, but I'm just wondering what people would think of a mode where elements of stages as well as assist trophies are fully playable and not just left to the CPU.

Tentatively I call this mode "Overlord mode", "Smash God mode" or "Master control mode".

In this mode you do not play as any of the characters, but instead play as an omnipotent and omnipresent being who gets to take control of the stage and its hazards depending on what they are. For example, this would mean selecting points on the map to bombard with beams or hazards (such as the Bahamut beam in Midgar, or the Bullet Bills on Peach's Castle). Other times you would be able to take direct control of the map itself, such as being able to control the cars on the F-Zero stages, or fly the Arwings in the Star Fox stages. The overlord can also reposition items, take control of assist trophies and pokeball pokemon, and rearrange platforms. However, each of these things cost "overlord points" (a number which is indicated on screen). Once they run out of overlord points they have to wait for them to recharge before they can interact with any obects in the stage again.

In addition, there is a catch to this. The overlord can be defeated by the players. Have you ever played TMNT4 for Super Nintendo? Do you remember that one particular battle against the Shredder where in order to defeat him you had to throw foot soldiers into the screen?

Well, the same principle applies here. In order to defeat the Overlord, players have to get star KOs on other players. This will invariably send the star KO'd player flying into the screen, damaging the overlord. The overlord has limited HP and once he is defeated, he can no longer control the stage hazards or interact with the game in any way.

I think this idea has a lot of potential and would need development.