Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[BowserK.Rool]

If you want to get technical, the sense of scaling in the original DKC is rather off anyway.

Look at DK and Diddy. They're the same size.


Though I kind of see where EdwardSponge is getting at.
Even if K. Rool isn't that much bigger than DK (i.e., they're close to the same height when DK is upright)....

There still is the fact that DK is one of the largest playable characters in Smash already. And that's when he's NOT standing upright like in DK64.
When he is, he's taller than BOWSER.

Not only that, but the Kremlings in Smash Tour are larger than either Bowser or DK (again, without standing upright) as well. Which makes them larger than any of the playable characters, though not by much.

That's good and fine, but what would that mean for K. Rool?
He kind of has to be bigger than his own Kritter minions. Even his model in Super Sluggers shows a notable height difference.

And if the Kritter is already larger than the entire playable cast....K. Rool could probably be an issue.

Granted, K. Rool might be able to get away with being unaltered and just be the largest fighter in the game unlike say, Ridley (who would OBVIOUSLY need to be altered), but it might take a new Smash that is designed around him being the largest instead of DK/Bowser rather than trying to design him around the pre-established Smash 4 in a hypothetical port.

Just make a completley new SSB5 game and have K. Rool the size that the Kritters are in Smash Run and take off a few inches on the Kritters themselves. As long as K. Rool is taller than DK and Bowser than I'm happy.

On the topic of Mario newcomers and stages, I just want Waluigi in. I've been a fan of him since his debut in Mario Tennis 64, it's already frustrating enough that he still has'nt gotten his own game already, let alone starr in a game with Wario. The least they can do is add him in SSB as a playable character. I want a real match between him and Luigi for once.

For stages, Bowser's Castle, a real one. Not the one in the Paper Mario stage but an actual setting where you actually fight on his castle. Do you know just how much potential that stage would have for Bowser soundtracks? I've been wanting to fight as Bowser while listening to his theme from Super Mario 64 since Melee, either a new rock remix of it or the original version. Some additional Bowser tracks could be his theme from Paper Mario 64, as well as his final boss theme in that game, his first battle theme from Super Mario Odyssey (that one was defintley awesome_), "The Evil King Koopa" from Super Mario World, His Phase 2 boss theme from NSMB Wii, and his theme from SMB3. Oh, Bowser's Highway Showdown and Bowser's Castle from Mario Kart 8 would be cool too.

 

[Arcadenik]

K let's get on topic before we all get smacked with warnings

If Duck Hunt is the Zapper character, should there be a Super Scope character? Y'know, who uses stuff from different Super Scope games. If so, who?

Uhhh... why not ST Falcon from BattleClash?

 

[Deleted member]

Ignoring that Duck Hunt was chosen for more than just "represent the Zapper", there really is no reason for the Super Scope to have a fighter.

For one, the Super Scope is already an item, so it's perfectly represented.
Two, there is literally no feasible character option (that isn't already in the game like Mario and Yoshi).

The only actual option is the ST Falcon, but there's one major problem; it's a giant mech.

 

[EdwardSponge]

The only actual option is the ST Falcon, but there's one major problem; it's a giant mech.

And Olimar is a tiny half inch tall alien, yet here we are.

 

[Deleted member]

Repeat after me: cutting clones won't magically open up a slot

The only actual option is the ST Falcon, but there's one major problem; it's a giant mech.

Yeah, you're right, the first mech in Smash should be Metal Face

 

[Deleted member]

And Olimar is a tiny half inch tall alien, yet here we are.

Oh, I wasn't aware Olimar is a mech piloted by normal-sized humans.

 

[EdwardSponge]

Oh, I wasn't aware Olimar is a mech piloted by normal-sized humans.

But... the characters in smash bros are toys being played with by Master Hand right?

Didn't realise people bought life sized 1000 ft tall mech toys for their kids to play with.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

But... the characters in smash bros are toys being played with by Master Hand right?

Didn't realise people bought life sized 1000 ft tall mechs for their kids to play with.

Weren't you the guy who expressed (minimal, tbf) concern that K. Rool might be too big? And now you're arguing in favor a A GIANT MECH?

The toy thing is of dubious canon status these days anyway, I think. Nothing after Brawl to really suggest that's the case.

 

[Opossum]

But... the characters in smash bros are toys being played with by Master Hand right?

Didn't realise people bought life sized 1000 ft tall mech toys for their kids to play with.

I've always been of the view that the whole "they're just toys" was more so for attaining the rights to the characters than anything else. Like, for example, it was probably used to get GameFreak on board to add Pikachu, since they're sticklers for keeping their brand detached from everything else. And in general it's just a developer's way of saying "none of this is canon."

 

[EdwardSponge]

Weren't you the guy who expressed (minimal, tbf) concern that K. Rool might be too big? And now you're arguing in favor a A GIANT MECH?

The toy thing is of dubious canon status these days anyway, I think. Nothing after Brawl to really suggest that's the case.

I'm only concerned with the size of a character in contrast to other characters from the same games. If king Dedede was the ONLY kirby rep, but he was the size of Mario. It wouldn't look that bad IMO, but the moment kirby himself his in the mix you need to change that, as having kirby be the same size as dedede would look wrong.

 

[Deleted member]

The purpose of saying "it's just toys" is:
-To give a reason as to why Smash exists. Many crossover games try to hand out excuses that derail into badly written plots like universe-crossing shenanigans but Sakurai just said "**** it" and made it simple.
-Explain why the proportions are off. Pikmin toys aren't going to be 100x smaller than a Mario toy and Pokemon toys NEVER get sizes right, for example
-A goddamn excuse for him to not include Ridley because, for some reason, no one has ever thought of turning a goddamn purple space pterodactyl into a toy and this annoys me because it'd be the sickest **** to me as a kid

 

[EdwardSponge]

And in general it's just a developer's way of saying "none of this is canon."

Exactly, so why does it matter that ST Falcon is a giant Mech? It doesn't.

 

[PsychoJosh]

ST Falcon would be a cool assist trophy but I don't think he'd function as a fighter. I think he'd be an assist trophy who shoots at stuff in a cockpit view.

If this were a Sega vs. Nintendo game I'd be tempted to recommend Temjin from Virtual-On as a playable fighter. He's a giant robot with a cool laser sword and lots of neat projectile attacks. Could easily be shrunk down to be a fighter. In fact he may not even need to be shrunk down all that much since he's only about 20 feet tall.

 

[Opossum]

Exactly, so why does it matter that ST Falcon is a giant Mech? It doesn't.

Because while it's a nice way to say "now you never need to mention Marth in your Zelda game or explain how Captain Falcon exists in the next Pokémon game," Sakurai still strives for accuracy.

The magic of a giant mech is lost when it's shrunken down to DK size. It's the same reason we'll never get Doshin the Giant (well, among other reasons).

 

[PsychoJosh]

How about some Street Fighter or Final Fantasy assist trophies?

I have a couple of ideas for those.

Barret Wallace (Final Fantasy 7): Appears on the stage and opens fire on people with his gun arm. Jumps around and tries to punch people. At the end he fires a Big Shot limit break that has an explosive effect on an opponent.

Ibuki (Street Fighter 3): Runs and leaps around trying to perform her special moves on people, mostly consisting of upward kicks and kunai/bomb throwing. Occasionally glides through the air with a ninja kite before throwing more kunai. At the end of her appearance she may do her Kasumi Suzaku super where she repeatedly throws many kunai at the opponent.

Chun-Li (Street Fighter 2): Approaches opponent and tries to land flurries of kicks on them. She may also jump through the air and try to headstomp them, or throw Kikou-Ken fireballs at them. She might end by doing a Kikou-Shou or a Hoyokusen super.

Hugo (Final Fight/SF3): Big and slow assist trophy. Will mostly try to grab or punch opponents. He can grab opponents on the ground for his Moonsault Press (where he flips into the air with them and lands on them belly first), or perform his Shootdown Backbreaker where he leaps from the ground and tries to catch an airborne opponent before bringing them back down with a backbreaker. He then might perform his Gigas Breaker super, which does a ton of damage and may end with the opponent getting KO'd similar to Bowser's Flying Slam.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

Aw man I actually just included Doshin on a roster I made! (that will remain private because it is a monstrosity..)

Though I agree that ST Falcon probably wouldn't work. My first thought when I made the Super Scope question was Tin Star, though he's super obscure.

Barret Wallace (Final Fantasy 7): Appears on the stage and opens fire on people with his gun arm. Jumps around and tries to punch people. At the end he fires a Big Shot limit break that has an explosive effect on an opponent.

Ibuki (Street Fighter 3): Runs and leaps around trying to perform her special moves on people, mostly consisting of upward kicks and kunai/bomb throwing. Occasionally glides through the air with a ninja kite before throwing more kunai. At the end of her appearance she may do her Kasumi Suzaku super where she repeatedly throws many kunai at the opponent.

Chun-Li (Street Fighter 2): Approaches opponent and tries to land flurries of kicks on them. She may also jump through the air and try to headstomp them, or throw Kikou-Ken fireballs at them. She might end by doing a Kikou-Shou or a Hoyokusen super.

Hugo (Final Fight/SF3): Big and slow assist trophy. Will mostly try to grab or punch opponents. He can grab opponents on the ground for his Moonsault Press (where he flips into the air with them and lands on them belly first), or perform his Shootdown Backbreaker where he leaps from the ground and tries to catch an airborne opponent before bringing them back down with a backbreaker. He then might perform his Gigas Breaker super, which does a ton of damage and may end with the opponent getting KO'd similar to Bowser's Flying Koopa Press.

Chocobos A BUNCH of different Chocobos from across the series stampede across the stage.

Dan does a pitiful amount of damage and/or does none with a taunt,

 

[Opossum]

How about some Street Fighter or Final Fantasy assist trophies?

I have a couple of ideas for those.

Barret Wallace (Final Fantasy 7): Appears on the stage and opens fire on people with his gun arm. Jumps around and tries to punch people. At the end he fires a Big Shot limit break that has an explosive effect on an opponent.

Ibuki (Street Fighter 3): Runs and leaps around trying to perform her special moves on people, mostly consisting of upward kicks and kunai/bomb throwing. Occasionally glides through the air with a ninja kite before throwing more kunai. At the end of her appearance she may do her Kasumi Suzaku super where she repeatedly throws many kunai at the opponent.

Chun-Li (Street Fighter 2): Approaches opponent and tries to land flurries of kicks on them. She may also jump through the air and try to headstomp them, or throw Kikou-Ken fireballs at them. She might end by doing a Kikou-Shou or a Hoyokusen super.

Hugo (Final Fight/SF3): Big and slow assist trophy. Will mostly try to grab or punch opponents. He can grab opponents on the ground for his Moonsault Press (where he flips into the air with them and lands on them belly first), or perform his Shootdown Backbreaker where he leaps from the ground and tries to catch an airborne opponent before bringing them back down with a backbreaker. He then might perform his Gigas Breaker super, which does a ton of damage and may end with the opponent getting KO'd similar to Bowser's Flying Slam.

I'd love for Dhalsim to be one. He'd float around the stage shooting yoga fire and stretching his arms to hit people.

 

[PsychoJosh]

I'd love for Dhalsim to be one. He'd float around the stage shooting yoga fire and stretching his arms to hit people.

Yeah there's a lot of potential with SF assist trophies. Blanka could be another cool one, rolling around and trying to electrocute people.

I picked Hugo because he's my favorite SF character, but Zangief could work in his stead too.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Dan does a pitiful amount of damage and/or does none with a taunt

So basically the Magikarp of Assist Trophies, but actually funny...

I'd pay for that.

 

[EdwardSponge]

Aw man I actually just included Doshin on a roster I made! (that will remain private because it is a monstrosity..)

Don't feel too bad about it, I made a top 10 countdown video for characters I wanted in smash 4 which was a complete trainwreck. Not a single character made it in. And I kid you not, I put 'Wolf's Return' on the list because I couldn't think of 10. (bare in mind this was before the game came out)

Sometimes I just want to die.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Dan? I'd rather see him as a clone of Ryu.

Joking aside, the lack of FF and SF AT's kind of suck.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

The real mystery is as to why we have Goldeen being the useless Pokeball Pokemon over Magikarp (a Pokemon that is historically known for that)?

Just for one small anime reference that not many Pokemon fans would get.

 

[N3ON]

The real mystery is as to why we have Goldeen being the useless Pokeball Pokemon over Magikarp (a Pokemon that is historically known for that)?

Just for one small anime reference that not many Pokemon fans would get.

Yeahhhhh

I used to devour the anime around the time Smash 64 came out, and I get and appreciate the reference for what it is... but I'd still much rather have Magikarp there instead. Magikarp is everything.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

Magikarp just makes more sense + potential for a very small chance of Gyarados flopping around.. You can imagine what happens to anybody caught in THAT

 

[Baskerville]

I'd love for a Akuma assist trophy with a Raging Demon instant KO.

 

[Deleted member]

My AT idea

Frederick would make for a decent Assist Trophy though. He'll pick up the pebbles so that no one will trip.

inb4 too much Fire Emblem

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

My AT idea

What if the stage has no pebbles?

 

[Deleted member]

What if the stage has no pebbles?

Then he would cover his summoner with extra blankets.

 

[Arcadenik]

Yeahhhhh

I used to devour the anime around the time Smash 64 came out, and I get and appreciate the reference for what it is... but I'd still much rather have Magikarp there instead. Magikarp is everything.

This. Magikarp even got its own game. It could be the Pokémon version of the Cucco item where Magikarp does nothing but it evolves into Gyarados if it gets hit.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The same reason Jigglypuff is considered higher priority than Mewtwo in Smash. Nostalgia overrules logic. I agree Magikarp makes more sense, but if they're going to have Magikarp evolve under certain conditions, then it's not the same role as Goldeen anymore. It's better off being another Pokemon summon entirely, but a cooler one. Basically, as a replacement, it should have no changes from Goldeen besides obviously the model and sounds. If unique, just have both~

 

[BowserK.Rool]

Sloprano aka The Great Mighty Poo from Conker's Bad Fur Day as an AT.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Sloprano aka The Great Mighty Poo from Conker's Bad Fur Day as an AT.

I don't want to see that **** in Smash

​

 

[Luminario]

The same reason Jigglypuff is considered higher priority than Mewtwo in Smash. Nostalgia overrules logic. I agree Magikarp makes more sense, but if they're going to have Magikarp evolve under certain conditions, then it's not the same role as Goldeen anymore. It's better off being another Pokemon summon entirely, but a cooler one. Basically, as a replacement, it should have no changes from Goldeen besides obviously the model and sounds. If unique, just have both~

Let Jiggs live, without her we'd only have one cutesy Pokemon, and Pokemon is renowned for it's cutesy Pokes. She's also super easy to make.
Also why not just add Magikarp potentially evolving? Just because it's not going to have the exact same role as Goldeen in a few rare instances doesn't mean it shouldn't replace it. It'll be a good feint, seeing Magikarp pop out and feeling let down only for it to evolve a few seconds later.

 

[EdwardSponge]

Satoru Iwata as an AT that causes all players to become blinded with their own tears.
The match then ends with 'no contest' because the players realise friendship is more important.

They then run off into the sunset.

 

[Zem-raj]

Satoru Iwata mentioned about the inception of Super Smash Bros., in an interview with TIME magazine, before he passed away:

“If you recall, I used to work at HAL Laboratories, and I was there at the time that they were working on the original Super Smash Bros. for the N64. And the individual who was responsible for localization of that Smash Bros. games is the individual who is translating for me now, which is Bill Trinen. But what’s interesting about the Smash Bros. games, is that the Smash Bros. games do not represent the Nintendo characters fighting against one another, they actually represent toys of Nintendo characters getting into an imaginary battle amongst themselves. And frankly that has to do with a very serious debate that we had within the company back then, which was, ‘Is it really okay for Nintendo characters to be hitting other Nintendo characters? Is it okay for Mario to be hitting Pikachu?'

Of course now Smash Bros. is such an obvious thing to be in existence than most people forget that that type of a debate was something that had to happen when the original game was created. And so the idea at that time was that, we already knew that there were going to be 50 characters playable in the new Smash Bros. game, which is now just released. At the time, the idea was that if we were to create a toy or a figure for each one of those characters, and if you could tap that toy to the system and have that toy interact with not just Smash Bros. but with a lot of different games, you would see very quickly that people would want to collect the toys and they would want to get the benefit of having the toys and using the toys in many different games, and that together all of that would make the overall value of the platform increase greatly for the consumers, and the value of owning the toys and the games would also increase. So that was the original idea around amiibo.”

http://time.com/3955733/satoru-iwata-nintendo-interview/

 

[N3ON]

I don't know, I don't really see much of a downside to replacing a useless Pokemon with a more famous and popular Pokemon that becomes not useless once in a while. I could understand if it was the other way around. It's not the end of the world either way, but having both seems redundant, especially since they'd both presumably be quite common. Would hardly be the first time a Pokemon got replaced by another very similar in function.

I mean I don't think Goldeen would be overly missed, whereas for some reason people embrace Magikarp's uselessness and would love the chance at the Gyarados. But it's all hypothetical since I can't imagine she gets replaced at this point.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Sloprano aka The Great Mighty Poo from Conker's Bad Fur Day as an AT.

I heavily doubt that a creature that's made out of ***** would be tolerated in a game that's designed for younger audiences.

 

[Arcadenik]

Satoru Iwata mentioned about the inception of Super Smash Bros., in an interview with TIME magazine, before he passed away:


http://time.com/3955733/satoru-iwata-nintendo-interview/

I think the story should be changed a bit... instead of toys (Smash 64) or trophies (Melee and Brawl), they are amiibos.

 

[BowserK.Rool]

I don't want to see that **** in Smash

​

*image removed*

Totally worth getting a warning.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I heavily doubt that a creature that's made out of ***** would be tolerated in a game that's designed for younger audiences.

Considering today's younger audiences, I think that's exactly why it would be tolerated.