Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

The only FE character I can even see being cut is Corrin because he'd likely be the lowest of priority.
Licina is a clone and Roy is a semiclone so they are easy to make
Lol cutting Marth lol
Robin has magic and weapon durability, and it'd be weird to have Lucina by herself
Ike is Ike

It's not just FE reps, there's Wii Fit Trainer and Dark Pit as well. I just want more characters who people actually care about and not ones who are just used for advertisements.

I thought E3 2013 was 4 years ago, are you a time traveler?

 

[Opossum]

the year is 2017 and casual fans are still accepting everything Sakurai gives them regardless if they really are unique or not.

"Everyone who's okay with something I'm not is a sheep."

Ridley had unworkable size issues and was never an option, Dixie was a timing issue, and K. Rool is lucky to have gotten a costume with how he's been exiled from his own series.

 

[Chandeelure]

New discussion: plausible heavy weight newcomers?

It's plausible for me.

 

[BowserK.Rool]

Nah, believe me, I wasn't keen on WFT at first either, but she grew on me. I was also very salty when the final DLC was revealed because it wasn't the character I wanted, and I'm still not the biggest fan of Corrin (actually playing his source game helped that).
So what were you saying about me accepting everything Sakurai gives?

My point exactly.

The only FE character I can even see being cut is Corrin because he'd likely be the lowest of priority.
Licina is a clone and Roy is a semiclone so they are easy to make
Lol cutting Marth lol
Robin has magic and weapon durability, and it'd be weird to have Lucina by herself
Ike is Ike



I thought E3 2013 was 4 years ago, are you a time traveler?

Kid Icarus came out in 2012, that's still pretty recent at the time SSB4 was revealed.

"Everyone who's okay with something I'm not is a sheep."

Ridley had unworkable size issues and was never an option, Dixie was a timing issue, and K. Rool is lucky to have gotten a costume with how he's been exiled from his own series.

I'm just posting the facts based on what I've seen during and after SSB4 speculation.

I'm calling BS on that one, if they can shrink Bowser (who is usually always huge in the main Mario games) down enough for fighting style but still make him look a little big then I don't see what the problem is for doing the same for Ridley), Dixie was never a timing issue as she was planned for Brawl but never made it, also Tropical Freeze had come out earlier in the year, if Sakurai couldn't add her in the default game then he could've added her for dlc but didn't. It's bittersweet, I'll admit at least it's a good sign in the sense that we were heard but it still is a kick below the belt when he was a really big and highly requested character, pretty sure he won the ballot votes or at least was up in the top 3, defintley higher than Bayonetta. Of course we'll never know because Sakurai never showed us the results.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

It's plausible for me.

I'll never understand why Bewear has to have such a girly voice in the TV series.

 

[Deleted member]

Kid Icarus came out in 2012, that's still pretty recent at the time SSB4 was revealed.

What does that even have to do with the fact it's been 4 years since WFt was revealed?
Seriously, FOUR ****ING YEARS
I can get being salty when it actually happens, but if you have the same amount of salt than most did back then, then all I ask is that you never swim in a river or a lake

 

[Chandeelure]

I'll never understand why Bewear has to have such a girly voice in the TV series.

I also don't know, I expected a much deeper voice considering his sound in the games, but I still like the voice, it's cute.

I prefer the japanese one.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

the year is 2017 and casual fans are still accepting everything Sakurai gives them regardless if they really are unique or not.

Also to Zebei, Maybe so but they were still pretty recent and were only in one game. They should've came later over characters like K. Rool, Dixie and Ridley but instead were made a costume, stage hazard, and only a trophy.

Accepting everything? I still don't like Bayonetta making the roster, but it is what it is.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I was annoyed at WFT at first. Mostly, it shocked me. But then I realized how dumb it was to be annoyed at that since there was nothing wrong with the addition. Keep in mind I thought it was a silly rumor at first. I acted pretty childish with my reaction back then in hindsight. But eh. It happens.

Frankly, the only real advertisement in 4 is solely Corrin. Nobody else was anything like that. They all had their place and were notable in some way or retro. Wii Fit is a damn good-selling game and getting a character isn't strange at all. Mind you, it was more intended to be a surprising addition. But the choice to use a character from a very popular game isn't odd either on its own.

The DLC isn't an issue, and the bigger issue with Corrin isn't so much that he's a FE Advertisement, it's that FE got more DLC characters than anything else. And the fact it tripled its character count in one game, with two as DLC. This is understandably controversial. Sakurai was unsure till his team convinced him otherwise to add Corrin. And his reasoning was to not oversaturate Fire Emblem. I think he made the right call, as Corrin was a great addition, though.

It probably would've been less of an issue if we had gotten an 8th DLC character. A newcomer outside of FE, but 1st party. Or another vet. But things didn't work out that way, and there wasn't exactly many Veteran choices that would work either. Wolf had no new game available to be related to(Lucas was the far more popular Brawl vet, so got chosen, respectively). Pichu is technically the same but also was fairly unpopular. Young Link had no feasible moveset options to go with as is outside of MM Transformations, which would've been taxing on the 3DS and very hard to get working fast. Roy wasn't that severely overchanged either. Mewtwo was remade, but that took a lot of work to do so. Lucas was retooled from Ness. Similar to how Wolf was made in Brawl. You can't just add Ivysaur or Squirtle without both, and that series got already 6 notable Pokemon. Likewise, making a good Ivysaur overhaul to remove the Vine Whip isn't that easy. They also weren't nearly as relevant compared to the final evolutions thanks to Mega Evolution. The big thing was Blastoise and Venusaur lately, not their pre-evos. Obviously PT wasn't coming back due to transformations gone. I think I covered every vet now? Overall, no feasible options, unfortunately, due to circumstances, 3DS issues, balance issues, or "can only add 1" issues.

 

[Bowserlick]

I like the version of Bewear where it sounds like an angry Julia Child that ran out of wine.

 

[N3ON]

Really in general, people hold the roster to a different standard. A double standard. People criticize the items, the stages, the music (or lack thereof), the mechanics (or lack thereof), character viability, Classic Mode, Adventure mode (or lack thereof), Smash Tour FOR SURE, much of the online, the event modes, target test, the amiibos, release dates and pricing, but oh ****, someone spoke ill of a character on the roster? Someone said they were a bad choice? Well holy **** let's get the torches and pitchforks and tell them how wrong they are because the roster is INFALLIBLE.

A bit of an exaggeration, but c'mon. The hypocrisy is glaring, and the roster, like any other part of the game, is not above reproach. Sakurai will not love you any less for taking issue with part of the roster. People should accept Smash as it is, because they can't change it (though they don't have to indulge in the DLC), however accepting and defending are not synonymous. Hell, accepting and embracing aren't even synonymous here. You can't change it, but you're free to take issue with it: character, stage, mechanic, or whatever. Even if it's "free" (which in Dark Pit's case - it's not; we're the consumers, not the developers). Though even if it was, that doesn't absolve any issues with it.

 

[Deleted member]

Really in general, people hold the roster to a different standard. A double standard. People criticize the items, the stages, the music (or lack thereof), the mechanics (or lack thereof), character viability, Classic Mode, Adventure mode (or lack thereof), Smash Tour FOR SURE, the event modes, target test, the amiibos, release dates and pricing, but oh ****, someone spoke ill of a character on the roster? Someone said they were a bad choice? Well holy **** let's get the torches and pitchforks and tell them how wrong they are because the roster is INFALLIBLE.

A bit of an exaggeration, but c'mon. The hypocrisy is glaring, and the roster, like any other part of the game, is not above reproach. Sakurai will not love you any less for taking issue with part of the roster. People should accept Smash as it is, because they can't change it (though they don't have to indulge in the DLC), however accepting and defending are not synonymous. Hell, accepting and embracing aren't even synonymous here. You can't change it, but you're free to take issue with it: character, stage, mechanic, or whatever. Even if it's "free" (which in Dark Pit's case - it's not; we're the consumers, not the developers). Though even if it was, that doesn't absolve any issues with it.

There's a difference between criticism and whining.
Not every character is going to be someone you like, that's inevitable, so people need to learn to just accept it.

Like, I could even have understood if we had just gotten the WFT reveal but we're not. It's 2017, 4 years after she was revealed and 3 after Smash was released, it's time to stop whining about roster choices.

I personally don't care about WFT, she could be cut next game and I would not even batch an eye, but I'm not bringing how she's a "bad character pick" out of nowhere because I still can't get over the fact my favorites are mot in but she is.

Criticism is valid when it exposes the flaws of something and/or proposes better alternatives.
"I don't like this character so they should be [favorite character]!" is not criticism

 

[N3ON]

There's a difference between criticism and whining.
Not every character is going to be someone you like, that's inevitable, so people need to learn to just accept it.

Like, I could even have understood if we had just gotten the WFT reveal but we're not. It's 2017, 4 years after she was revealed and 3 after Smash was released, it's time to stop whining about roster choices.

I personally don't care about WFT, she could be cut next game and I would not even batch an eye, but I'm not bringing how she's a "bad character pick" out of nowhere because I still can't get over the fact my favorites are mot in but she is.

Criticism is valid when it exposes the flaws of something and/or proposes better alternatives.
"I don't like this character so they should be [favorite character]!" is not criticism

So, why, when the conversation drifts to other aspects, is there never the same pushback upon criticism of stages or modes or mechanics? My point is not about how you want to classify criticism, it's that the roster is treated with an obsequiousness not lent anywhere else. And criticism is criticism, some is vapid bellyaching and some is legitimate discourse, but it's all engaged with here.

And more to your point, why, then, is there only a window in which character criticism is acceptable here? The character hasn't gone away, why should the criticism? Again to my point, especially if it hasn't for the other aspects of the game, a fact no one seems to take issue with. Should the conversation pertain to the topic, people will still complain about Smash tour and some tier decisions, the online and the lack of adventure mode and whatnot... if you speak about Brawl it's probably still going to be largely consumed by complaints, justified or not... so why is the roster not held to the same standard?

Just because someone criticizes something doesn't mean they can't accept its presence. What you're looking for, more or less, is silence to the contrary, not acceptance. And while I agree there's not much to be accomplished in airing grievances, there's not much to be accomplished in any of this, positive or negative. We're just sharing our thoughts about a series we like. We don't even know if there's a Smash actively in development, none of this means much.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm calling BS on that one, if they can shrink Bowser (who is usually always huge in the main Mario games) down enough for fighting style but still make him look a little big then I don't see what the problem is for doing the same for Ridley)

Bowser isn't, nor ever was, a valid counterpoint.

Not only is Bowser constantly fluctuating sizes to fit whatever role he needs to fit (even within the same GAME), but think about when Bowser was included in Smash to begin with; Melee.
The only game where he's notably large at the time is Super Mario 64 (It's hard to count Super Mario World considering we never see him out of the Clown Car). This was before later games would make him being larger in boss battles a series staple, as well as giving in-canon reasons (magic, an artifact of great power, eating meat, etc.) for his variable sizes.

And that's not even getting into the fact that Ridley's got more issues than just his overall size.

 

[FalKoopa]

I believe it's just that people are tired of the same points being brought up again and again. Even if the points are valid, you can't keep repeating them for years and expect people to receive them patiently.

 

[N3ON]

I believe it's just that people are tired of the same points being brought up again and again. Even if the points are valid, you can't keep repeating them for years and expect people to receive them patiently.

But that's sort of what happens here no matter the topic or the stance, it's all very cyclical. Especially in times between Smash games.

Case in point if you go to the beginning of this very page you'll see both a FE conversation that's been had time and time again and the Ridley size discussion.

 

[FalKoopa]

But that's sort of what happens here no matter the topic or the stance, it's all very cyclical. Especially in times between Smash games.

Case in point if you go to the beginning of this very page you'll see both a FE conversation that's been had time and time again and the Ridley size discussion.

My point is, if someone grumbles at the topic being brought up again, it shouldn't be surprising.

It's also that the original post came off as snobbish. "Nobody really wants WFT or Dark Pit" so yeah.

 

[Bowserlick]

If I could place a rule on Sakurai on FE, I would say," Only Ike and Marth get counters."

 

[BowserK.Rool]

What does that even have to do with the fact it's been 4 years since WFt was revealed?
Seriously, FOUR ****ING YEARS
I can get being salty when it actually happens, but if you have the same amount of salt than most did back then, then all I ask is that you never swim in a river or a lake

Still only one game.
Too late and just so you know, the lake and river are a lot more pleasant and less cringe worthy.

Accepting everything? I still don't like Bayonetta making the roster, but it is what it is.

Luckily she's just dlc so you don't have to have her in the game if you don't want, that part I'm at least ok with.

Really in general, people hold the roster to a different standard. A double standard. People criticize the items, the stages, the music (or lack thereof), the mechanics (or lack thereof), character viability, Classic Mode, Adventure mode (or lack thereof), Smash Tour FOR SURE, much of the online, the event modes, target test, the amiibos, release dates and pricing, but oh ****, someone spoke ill of a character on the roster? Someone said they were a bad choice? Well holy **** let's get the torches and pitchforks and tell them how wrong they are because the roster is INFALLIBLE.

A bit of an exaggeration, but c'mon. The hypocrisy is glaring, and the roster, like any other part of the game, is not above reproach. Sakurai will not love you any less for taking issue with part of the roster. People should accept Smash as it is, because they can't change it (though they don't have to indulge in the DLC), however accepting and defending are not synonymous. Hell, accepting and embracing aren't even synonymous here. You can't change it, but you're free to take issue with it: character, stage, mechanic, or whatever. Even if it's "free" (which in Dark Pit's case - it's not; we're the consumers, not the developers). Though even if it was, that doesn't absolve any issues with it.

Let's put it this way, if I'm not impressed by what the game has to offer whether it be character selection, game modes, gameplay, etc. then I'm not going to buy it. If it were'nt for Mega Man, Little Mac, and Bowser Jr. being in the game then I probably would've avoided SSB4 altogether, at least the 3DS version sort of makes up for it with Smash Run as far as modes go.

Bowser isn't, nor ever was, a valid counterpoint.

Not only is Bowser constantly fluctuating sizes to fit whatever role he needs to fit (even within the same GAME), but think about when Bowser was included in Smash to begin with; Melee.
The only game where he's notably large at the time is Super Mario 64 (It's hard to count Super Mario World considering we never see him out of the Clown Car). This was before later games would make him being larger in boss battles a series staple, as well as giving in-canon reasons (magic, an artifact of great power, eating meat, etc.) for his variable sizes.

And that's not even getting into the fact that Ridley's got more issues than just his overall size.

Then again, Mario is really small in the original Super Mario Bros. NES games, he only grows to Bowser's size when you get a mushroom.

Please explain Ridley's other issues besides his size, I'd love to read it.

I believe it's just that people are tired of the same points being brought up again and again. Even if the points are valid, you can't keep repeating them for years and expect people to receive them patiently.

And people are also tired of being trolled for their favorite characters not being in the game as well as Sakurai not wanting to bother to make the best game possible that everyone will buy. Many of the decisions he chose were based on his own personal bias, nothing more and nothing less. K. Rool and Ridley are basically memes now.

 

[FalKoopa]

And people are also tired of being trolled for their favorite characters not being in the game as well as Sakurai not wanting to bother to make the best game possible that everyone will buy. Many of the decisions he chose were based on his own personal bias, nothing more and nothing less. K. Rool and Ridley are basically memes now.

I'm... not sure what do you consider trolling here. Repeating the reason Sakurai gave to not include Ridley isn't trolling.

And it's the meltdown that followed their disconfirmation that turned them into memes, not the disconfirmation itself. Other old favourites missed the Smash train as well; they didn't turn into memes.

 

[Deleted member]

Then again, Mario is really small in the original Super Mario Bros. NES games, he only grows to Bowser's size when you get a mushroom.

Please explain Ridley's other issues besides his size, I'd love to read it.

Uh....
He's also tiny compared to Peach and the Toads without a Mushroom, dude.

It isn't that Bowser is "big", it's that Mario is "small". He's "normal" with a Mushroom (post SMB1 at least; he's much larger than he should be in that game).

Aside from just being scaled down, Ridley requires too many drastic changes with his design just to function properly as balanced playable fighter, especially the Other M design. Just taking the model and shrinking it isn't good enough.
While many characters have had some aesthetic tweaks, some add-ons to the base designs, and even some very minor reductions in certain aspects that are not really noticeable, it would be too noticeable for Ridley, especially when factoring in the smaller size on top of it. It wouldn't really be "Ridley" anymore at that point.


EDIT: Goddammit, the image uploader is broken again.

 

[N3ON]

My point is, if someone grumbles at the topic being brought up again, it shouldn't be surprising.

I generally agree with that, especially given how often topics are recycled. But it goes above and beyond that when people bother writing their own counterpoints.

It's also that the original post came off as snobbish. "Nobody really wants WFT or Dark Pit" so yeah.

That will predispose people towards being more combative, true, but I've seen similar reactions in other instances as well... I wouldn't write those above posts over an isolated incident. Though usually nowadays the characters in question are the clones or the DLC. I mean I don't even remember the last time someone actually complained about WFT prior to this. Do lots of people still do that? Not from what I've seen. I guess new characters that have shown up since ate her lunch.

Let's put it this way, if I'm not impressed by what the game has to offer whether it be character selection, game modes, gameplay, etc. then I'm not going to buy it. If it were'nt for Mega Man, Little Mac, and Bowser Jr. being in the game then I probably would've avoided SSB4 altogether, at least the 3DS version sort of makes up for it with Smash Run as far as modes go.

It's your money.

 

[Deleted member]

My point exactly.

How so? I literally just said I wasn't fine with certain characters. Explain yourself.

 

[FalKoopa]

That will predispose people towards being more combative, true, but I've seen similar reactions in other instances as well... I wouldn't write those above posts over an isolated incident. Though usually nowadays the characters in question are the clones or the DLC. I mean I don't even remember the last time someone actually complained about WFT prior to this. Do lots of people still do that? Not from what I've seen. I guess new characters that have shown up since ate her lunch.

Smash Speculation has generally been inactive so no, I haven't really seen much complaining.
I think that's part of the issue. You'd think people have moved on from it after not hearing about in so long. I guess they're just simmering below the surface.

The sooner Ninty gives us something new to talk about, the better for everyone. >_>

 

[Swamp Sensei]

People would treat complaints about the roster with more respect if they weren't so frequently written like a manchild taking everything personally.

"I don't like Character X and think they should be removed for x reason," is fine.

Saying... "Character X is a terrible character and people who like them are shills and will accept anything and including them is an insult to fans everywhere," makes you look like an idiot.

The latter is more common unfortunately.

 

[N3ON]

Smash Speculation has generally been inactive so no, I haven't really seen much complaining.
I think that's part of the issue. You'd think people have moved on from it after not hearing about in so long. I guess they're just simmering below the surface.

The sooner Ninty gives us something new to talk about, the better for everyone. >_>

Well, after the initial bout of intense emotion, if a character is still present on the roster it stands to reason that lingering feelings regarding the character remain as well. Nothing inherently wrong with that. And if people aren't voicing their dislike at every turn and apart from when it's topically relevant, which, for the most part, they aren't, it doesn't seem that problematic to me. There are a handful of characters I still don't much care for on the roster, some dating back to quite early in the series.

But "simmering" is an interesting connotation. Again, I feel people are conflating rage over a character with mere dislike at their presence. "You don't like x? Why are you still mad?" and all that. As if anger or adulation are the only two options. Is disliking a character even after you've fully accepted and normalized the fact that they are in the game really a concept that difficult to embrace?

And yeah, news is always good, though it's only been less than two years since the last Smash stuff. For better or for worse the fanbase has endured much longer dry spells. You've just gotta be a camel about it.
Though personally I'm still expecting the port next year.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Anyone else Wii Fit Trainer was said to only be an advertisement? Wii Fit was one of Nintendo's best selling series and Sakurai thought "Huh, despite that nobody asks for her. How quaint! This should be a fun surprise!" Dark Pit was literally meant to just be a costume but Sakurai felt Dark Pit shouldn't have the 3 Sacred Treasures

 

[Diddy Kong]

"Everyone who's okay with something I'm not is a sheep."

Ridley had unworkable size issues and was never an option, Dixie was a timing issue, and K. Rool is lucky to have gotten a costume with how he's been exiled from his own series.

If Dixie was already planned for Brawl, I don't see how she absolutely needed to have her Tropical Freeze appearance for Smash. And Sakurai could've done more research on what was happening in the franchise. How come he communicates with GameFreak and Intelligent Systems all the time, but not with Retro? Yes both companies being in Japan helps, I guess... But Nintendo themselves could easily allow for Sakurai to know about content of Tropical Freeze. There's even that Wooly Yoshi stage without the game having been released for example...

More and more I realise that Japanese influence is the most important in Smash Bros. or at least characters from Japanese companies have a huge advantage of getting in over western created characters. This was most obvious with Diddy's exclusion from Melee, and Smash 4 seems to suffer from this as well. If second party developers have better influence on Smash's character roster than first party developer Retro Studios, there's a clear bias.

This is why am heavily upset that PAON hasn't made Donkey Kong games in the recent generation. A Japanese created Donkey Kong game would garner far more favors Smash-related compared to western released DKC games. That's saying a lot seeing as the DKC franchise is considered pretty damn legendary, even if it's been on a low for a very long time.

I seriously hope this can be adressed in the next installation of Smash. Or we get at least one Japanese created Donkey Kong Country game which embraces the established lore so it can finally be represented fully in Smash Bros.

 

[N3ON]

People would treat complaints about the roster with more respect if they weren't so frequently written like a manchild taking everything personally.

"I don't like Character X and think they should be removed for x reason," is fine.

Saying... "Character X is a terrible character and people who like them are shills and will accept anything and including them is an insult to fans everywhere," makes you look like an idiot.

I'd like to believe that, but people voice complaints about other aspects of the game in a manner no more maturely (well, a little more maturely, but still fairly bluntly) and those are given a disparate degree of credence.

So far no one has even spoken to the fact that the other aspects of Smash are indeed treated with a much more cavalier attitude, even though that is the through-line of all my posts. I'm not excusing the abrasive language of this approach, but forget this one instance; there are other people on this site who express their views with rational and coherent rhetoric. Yet I don't remember a single time in recent memory, apart from perhaps right after a reveal, speaking ill of character choices on the roster (because often speaking against characters not on the roster is fine until they get on the roster - funny how that works) wasn't inundated with general derision way out of proportion to criticizing any other aspect of the game, whether the initial post was manchildish or not.

What I'm saying is there's a double standard here to which everyone seems willfully ignorant. So again I ask, why are people so quick to defend every choice on the roster, not simply in this instance but in general, when criticism of almost every other aspect of the game is inordinately more tolerated? When criticizing those very characters prior to their inclusion, in many instances, would've been inordinately more tolerated? What gives the roster such impunity?

 

[Diddy Kong]

N3ON hit the hammer on the nail right there! How come we aren't "allowed" to criticise the roster? Sure every character has their merrits, but personally I see little vallue in keeping certain characters around if their initial 'shock vallue' has passed. For example Wii Fit Trainer. Yeah Wii Fit did amazing on the Wii, but not perse the Wii U. Does Switch even have Wii Fit on it?

I mean cuts are almost ineffable right now. I much rather have cuts in lesser popular characters as Wii Fit Trainer and say the MII'S over the likes of Roy, Mewtwo , Lucas, Lucario or Ike. We are losing franchise representatives of already small franchises as Star Fox or MOTHER and I don't want cuts in established franchises no more honestly.

That's why I much rather see cuts in the third party department. Even maybe the old skool retro additions, which is why I wasn't upset at all with the losses of Ice Climbers and Snake. Both had horribly unbalanced movesets in Brawl anyway. I don't think we've lost them unless they could've been rebalanced...

So yeah cut 2-3 third parties, a retro character, the damn Mii's (THREE FULL MOVESETS!!) and even the Wii Fit Trainer.. maybe even some shocking cuts as Jigglypuff and Corrin / Robin, and I think we good.

 

[Super Nintendo Chalmers]

So yeah thanks for reminding me again that K.Rool is the only logical choice. The only other potential newcomer would probably be Ganon. Takamaru is not gonna be a heavy weight.

Could Donkey Kong Jr. potentially be considered a heavyweight?

Also support cuts to Miis, a Pokemon and 1-2 FE reps - if it means we get new and diverse characters from a range of series.

 

[EdwardSponge]

More and more I realise that Japanese influence is the most important in Smash Bros. or at least characters from Japanese companies have a huge advantage of getting in over western created characters. This was most obvious with Diddy's exclusion from Melee, and Smash 4 seems to suffer from this as well. If second party developers have better influence on Smash's character roster than first party developer Retro Studios, there's a clear bias.

By this point I doubt that Sakurai knows what a Donkey Kong even is.
So hey why is DK's side B a headbut? - Because he's an ape and apes do funny things.
Why do Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong make realistic monkey and gorilla grunts instead of having any of their voices from their games? - 'Because they're monkeys, not characters.'
Why is Diddy's down B a banana peel? - 'Because monkeys like bananas.'
Why is Diddy's side B monkey flip? - 'Because he is a monkey.'
Hey so what new DK content is in Smash 3DS? - 'You get a a couple of smash run enemies.' Oh... Anything else? 'No I'm too busy adding the 415'512'633'092nd Kid Icarus feature.
If K Rool ever get's into smash his moveset is going to consist of swimming in a swamp and laying eggs because he is a crocodile.

 

[Deleted member]

The only Pokemon cut I'd ever be okay with is Jigglypuff.
Say what you will about her being one of the original 12, but like it or not, she's probably the most expandable of the Pokemon - Pikachu is the mascot, Charizard and Mewtwo are massively popular and iconic, Lucario is the poster child of Gen 4 and generally represents the newer generations of Pokemon, and Greninja is the only one that might be on par with her but even that's debatable as it gets a lot of special attention.
I don't want any of them to be cut, but if I had to choose who to cut out of the 6 of them, Jigglypuff would be my pick.

 

[EdwardSponge]

The only Pokemon cut I'd ever be okay is Jigglypuff.
Say what you will about her being one of the original 12, but like it or not, she's probably the most expandable of the Pokemon

APPARENTLY Jigglypuff is incredibly popular in Japan, and it is still relevant to the games as the Jigglypuff line is still populating the recent pokemon regions. I honestly thought that if anyone was to be cut, it would be Mewtwo or Greninja.
Personally I feel as though Greninja was a very flavour of the month addition.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Flavor of the month implies that they were added due to being relevant and popular. Greninja was added because Sakurai saw an easy moveset from a beta design. It's impossible for Greninja to be a flavor of the month in Smash by design.

Mewtwo actually fits that better anyway. It just suddenly has a resurgence in relevancy for a little bit, then drops off. There's a reason it's low priority as well. It's not nearly as important as people are making it. Jigglypuff is a different issue altogether, but being in the First Smash itself tends to help. Any vet tends to be popular as well. Every character has their fans, and any cuts sting, really.

That said, Smash's flavor of the month really applies more to trophies/stickers at this point. They're solely for the sake of relevancy or because it fits the current version of a character in Smash. Some characters have retro designs(not to be confused with a character that is a literal retro addition. Sonic is based upon Classic Sonic, which is a retro design. He's however anything but a retro addition since he's had games constantly. Series wasn't on hiatus or dead).

 

[Deleted member]

APPARENTLY Jigglypuff is incredibly popular in Japan, and it is still relevant to the games as the Jigglypuff line is still populating the recent pokemon regions. I honestly thought that if anyone was to be cut, it would be Mewtwo or Greninja.
Personally I feel as though Greninja was a very flavour of the month addition.

Note that I said "would be okay with". I admittedly rushed the post, but what I meant to say was that should be locked, which would leave us with and , out of which I'd definetly rather have Greninja due to personal bias (Greninja is my 2nd favorite Pokemon of all time and I really enjoy its playstyle).
As for which one is the most likely to get cut... Sadly, I'm gonna have to agree with you there, Mewtwo and Greninja are the most likely. Mewtwo would definetly be DLC again though.

 

[Zerp]

In an ideal world, both AND should be locked in along with , both are massively popular in Smash and have their reasons for being in outside of veteran status (Jigglypuff is stupid levels of iconic, Greninja is stupid levels of popular).
Small disclaimer: I'm not saying I think either of them are locked in, I just think they should be.

By this point I doubt that Sakurai knows what a Donkey Kong even is.
So hey why is DK's side B a headbut? - Because he's an ape and apes do funny things.
Why do Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong make realistic monkey and gorilla grunts instead of having any of their voices from their games? - 'Because they're monkeys, not characters.'
Why is Diddy's down B a banana peel? - 'Because monkeys like bananas.'
Why is Diddy's side B monkey flip? - 'Because he is a monkey.'
Hey so what new DK content is in Smash 3DS? - 'You get a a couple of smash run enemies.' Oh... Anything else? 'No I'm too busy adding the 415'512'633'092nd Kid Icarus feature.
If K Rool ever get's into smash his moveset is going to consist of swimming in a swamp and laying eggs because he is a crocodile.

Given how long it took for Donkey Kong's dash attack to become the roll, I think there's an possibility that Mr. Sakurai's never played the Donkey Kong games, it would explain a lot of things.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Could Donkey Kong Jr. potentially be considered a heavyweight?

Also support cuts to Miis, a Pokemon and 1-2 FE reps - if it means we get new and diverse characters from a range of series.

DK Jr. could be a light heavy weight. Probably not much heavier than Mario, or Mega Man. Speaking of Mega Man, he and and Ryu COULD also be considered heavy weights.

By this point I doubt that Sakurai knows what a Donkey Kong even is.
So hey why is DK's side B a headbut? - Because he's an ape and apes do funny things.
Why do Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong make realistic monkey and gorilla grunts instead of having any of their voices from their games? - 'Because they're monkeys, not characters.'
Why is Diddy's down B a banana peel? - 'Because monkeys like bananas.'
Why is Diddy's side B monkey flip? - 'Because he is a monkey.'
Hey so what new DK content is in Smash 3DS? - 'You get a a couple of smash run enemies.' Oh... Anything else? 'No I'm too busy adding the 415'512'633'092nd Kid Icarus feature.
If K Rool ever get's into smash his moveset is going to consist of swimming in a swamp and laying eggs because he is a crocodile.

Best post of 2017. Salutations.

 

[BowserK.Rool]

I'm... not sure what do you consider trolling here. Repeating the reason Sakurai gave to not include Ridley isn't trolling.

And it's the meltdown that followed their disconfirmation that turned them into memes, not the disconfirmation itself. Other old favourites missed the Smash train as well; they didn't turn into memes.

I'm mainly talking about the tear drinking fanboys who enjoy seeing others complain about their dissappointments by posting memes of characters like Dark Pit drinking a goblet and Sakurai agai, making Ridley a stage hazard and K. Rool a mii costume despite them being two of the most wanted characters ever. Also Ghirahim was another popular request but go made into an AT. Pretty much all the characters who should be playable ened up being unplayable. Oh, and then there's that whole thing with Ganondorf still using. Captain Falcon's moveset yet having a taunt where he holds up a sword.

Same thing pretty much. If you're referring to characters such as Waluigi and Samurai Goroh though, that still doesn't change the fact that they were'nt made playable.

Uh....
He's also tiny compared to Peach and the Toads without a Mushroom, dude.

It isn't that Bowser is "big", it's that Mario is "small". He's "normal" with a Mushroom (post SMB1 at least; he's much larger than he should be in that game).

Aside from just being scaled down, Ridley requires too many drastic changes with his design just to function properly as balanced playable fighter, especially the Other M design. Just taking the model and shrinking it isn't good enough.
While many characters have had some aesthetic tweaks, some add-ons to the base designs, and even some very minor reductions in certain aspects that are not really noticeable, it would be too noticeable for Ridley, especially when factoring in the smaller size on top of it. It wouldn't really be "Ridley" anymore at that point.


EDIT: Goddammit, the image uploader is broken again.

If that's the case then maybe Kraid could work out as a playable character afterall in SSB being how he's the same size as Samus in the original Metroid game

Also I disagree, Ridley is the same height as well like Samus in the original Metroid game and even like that in the opening intro scene of Melee where it shows her fighting him and it looks great. Also when it comes to size proportions, I'm pretty sure King Dedede is pretty small, it all depends on the game developer whether or not they want to actually make them work or not.

How so? I literally just said I wasn't fine with certain characters. Explain yourself.

No one really wanted those characters during speculation until after they were added.

In an ideal world, both AND should be locked in along with , both are massively popular in Smash and have their reasons for being in outside of veteran status (Jigglypuff is stupid levels of iconic, Greninja is stupid levels of popular).
Small disclaimer: I'm not saying I think either of them are locked in, I just think they should be.


Given how long it took for Donkey Kong's dash attack to become the roll, I think there's an possibility that Mr. Sakurai's never played the Donkey Kong games, it would explain a lot of things.

Especially why every DKC stage is a Jungle Stage.

 

[Deleted member]

"What THE **** is a Donkey Kong!?" ~Sakurai, Masahiro. Probably.