Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Cutie Gwen]

By this point I doubt that Sakurai knows what a Donkey Kong even is.
So hey why is DK's side B a headbut? - Because he's an ape and apes do funny things.
Why do Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong make realistic monkey and gorilla grunts instead of having any of their voices from their games? - 'Because they're monkeys, not characters.'
Why is Diddy's down B a banana peel? - 'Because monkeys like bananas.'
Why is Diddy's side B monkey flip? - 'Because he is a monkey.'
Hey so what new DK content is in Smash 3DS? - 'You get a a couple of smash run enemies.' Oh... Anything else? 'No I'm too busy adding the 415'512'633'092nd Kid Icarus feature.
If K Rool ever get's into smash his moveset is going to consist of swimming in a swamp and laying eggs because he is a crocodile.

To be fair, Bowser uses generic monster sounds instead of his voice, DK got his roll in Smash 4, plus you're acting like Diddy's carthweel, jet pack, peanut pop gun and up taunt don't exist (I think up taunt was the one that references Diddy's victory animation in DKC)

 

[BowserK.Rool]

To be fair, Bowser uses generic monster sounds instead of his voice, DK got his roll in Smash 4, plus you're acting like Diddy's carthweel, jet pack, peanut pop gun and up taunt don't exist (I think up taunt was the one that references Diddy's victory animation in DKC)

At least those generic monster sounds were still canon to his n64 and and gamecube years (at least in Melee anyway). He does have a point though, although many characters have their moves that are canon from their games, they also have some that were just made up and added in there because of Sakurai's mah-vision.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

At least those generic monster sounds were still canon to his n64 and and gamecube years (at least in Melee anyway). He does have a point though, although many characters have their moves that are canon from their games, they also have some that were just made up and added in there because of Sakurai's mah-vision.

But Bowser got a new voice and hasn't had it updated, which is a real shame as it makes him lose some personality.
Applies to every character really. Besides, Smash 64 came out almost a year before DK64, DK didn't have much to use from his DKC either way. Melee COULD have had the Coconut gun, but when your vision of a character is a big strong dude who hits hard, having a projectile could have been seen as bothersome

 

[Deleted member]

No one really wanted those characters during speculation until after they were added.

That's literally true for more than 50% of the characters in Smash history.

And I might be missing a few.
And no, being a veteran does not make any difference.
Also, I literally said I'm not a fan of Corrin.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

Death to non-canon movesets!!!

*ahem*

Donkey Kong really should get his real voice, I mean come on.

 

[BowserK.Rool]

Death to non-canon movesets!!!

*ahem*

Donkey Kong really should get his real voice, I mean come on.

I'm ok with the ape sounds, if they were the ones from DKC1 or the Mario spinoffs from the N64 and GCN era then I'd be ok with that as well. As far as actual character voices go, I'd only be fine with it if they used Grant Kirkhope for him.

That's literally true for more than 50% of the characters in Smash history.

And I might be missing a few.
And no, being a veteran does not make any difference.
Also, I literally said I'm not a fan of Corrin.

Though Zero Suit Samus is technically the same character and Ness, Lucas, and Captain Falcon do have a very notable franchise despite them being dead at this point. I agree with you about the rest though since they only had one game and 2 were only exclusive to Japan before being added in SSB:Melee. Jigglypuff, I understand her popularity as a pokemon and the series was pretty big at the time still. I don't use her though because of the moveset.

 

[Chandeelure]

Yeah, I kind of agree with this, Donkey and Diddy's movesets are pretty bad.
I never play as them because they don't feel like the characters I liked as a child, just some... animals.

Samus and Kirby have similar problems, very boring movesets considering the incredible amount of potential they have, but they are "fine".
Like why can't Samus shoot her projectiles like Mega Man (multiple at the same time), why can't she charge in the air?, why can't she use Screw Attack more than one time like Witch Twist?, Why doesn't she have ice in her moveset?.

Kirby is just boring, 90% of the moveset are kicks that have the excuse of being from the Fighter ability, but yeah, boring... and bad.

Pikachu also feels kinda weird for me, it tries too hard to be cute, and I like Pikachu thanks to the anime, where he is super strong and likes to battle. Also no Iron Tail, and Volt Tackle being a weird floating ball.

Also, Jigglypuff, yeah, Rest, what is that,
Sing, her more iconic move, being totally useless, etc.

All the very unique and "kinda canon" movesets from the Smash 4 newcomers made me realize how bad some of the old ones are.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Though Zero Suit Samus is technically the same character and Ness, Lucas, and Captain Falcon do have a very notable franchise despite them being dead at this point. I agree with you about the rest though since they only had one game and 2 were only exclusive to Japan before being added in SSB:Melee. Jigglypuff, I understand her popularity as a pokemon and the series was pretty big at the time still. I don't use her though because of the moveset.

That wasn't Lampy's point, his point was that movesets were made up for many characters. All Zero Suit Samus had in Metroid Zero Mission was a stun gun, the whip part and CQC was added in Smash and both Ness and Lucas use moves that they can't learn in their games iirc, Lucas especially as he's more of a support character in Mother 3 who buffs the party. Captain Falcon has literally nothing, his moveset was made when the game was still Dragon Fighters

 

[BowserK.Rool]

That wasn't Lampy's point, his point was that movesets were made up for many characters. All Zero Suit Samus had in Metroid Zero Mission was a stun gun, the whip part and CQC was added in Smash and both Ness and Lucas use moves that they can't learn in their games iirc, Lucas especially as he's more of a support character in Mother 3 who buffs the party. Captain Falcon has literally nothing, his moveset was made when the game was still Dragon Fighters

You obviously either misunderstood what I said to him or didn't read it as I never mentioned anything about those characters movesets.

 

[Deleted member]

Though Zero Suit Samus is technically the same character and Ness, Lucas, and Captain Falcon do have a very notable franchise despite them being dead at this point.

I don't see how that's an arguement.
Like, why would you add a Samus without her iconic power suit on? What does that represent? Who asked for it? Especially since in the Metroid games, Samus without her suit is worse than Suit Samus in every possible way. I can confirm this, and I only played one Metroid game.

I agree with you about the rest though since they only had one game and 2 were only exclusive to Japan before being added in SSB:Melee.

Marth was actually in 2 games and an anime. Roy's game wasn't even out yet.

That wasn't Lampy's point, his point was that movesets were made up for many characters. All Zero Suit Samus had in Metroid Zero Mission was a stun gun, the whip part and CQC was added in Smash and both Ness and Lucas use moves that they can't learn in their games iirc, Lucas especially as he's more of a support character in Mother 3 who buffs the party. Captain Falcon has literally nothing, his moveset was made when the game was still Dragon Fighters

Actually, it was my point.
It's part of a seperate arguement from canon movesets.

Also, @ those who say DK's moveset is completely made up:

Spoiler

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You obviously either misunderstood what I said to him or didn't read it as I never mentioned anything about those characters movesets.

I don't see how that's an arguement.
Like, why would you add a Samus without her iconic power suit on? What does that represent? Who asked for it? Especially since in the Metroid games, Samus without her suit is worse than Suit Samus in every possible way. I can confirm this, and I only played one Metroid game.


Marth was actually in 2 games and an anime. Roy's game wasn't even out yet.


Actually, it was my point.
It's part of a seperate arguement from canon movesets.

Also, @ those who say DK's moveset is completely made up:

Spoiler

My mistake. Still, I don't know about F-Zero's life time but it's a fact Earthbound did poorly. Hell, the game only recently got released in Europe because of the virtual console. People grow to love characters after they get in, just look at Snake and Roy as primary examples

 

[Chandeelure]

People grow to love characters after they get in, just look at Snake and Roy as primary examples

In my case, Bayonetta.

I disliked the idea of her being in Smash, I don't know why, I just didn't know anything about her and she wasn't Bandana Dee.
But now she is literally my main and one of my favorite videogame characters, lol.

 

[Deleted member]

Samus and DK are products of their time, during Smash 64, standard moves and Smash attacks weren't supposed to be crazy like Mega Man's lemons or Side Smash, they needed to first build the tropes for Smash fighters. At the time of Melee, Samus was THE projectile fighter alongside Link because she had two of them(and a Down-B that I don't know if it counts).
By the time Sakurai and his team started to implement subversions, exaggerations and other variations of the fighter tropes, Samus had already been a estabilished fighter with a playerbase, they couldn't just change it now. Still, her moveset is perfectly fine as far as representing her abilities, just wish she had the Ice Beam at least as a Custom Move.

The same applies to DK, though he has more problems with moves, when Smash 64 was made he had only two games in the DKC series he did anything, and only in one of them did he use a projectile weapon. The first DKC game was all about physically attacking your opponent, unlike Mario who had his Fire Flower in every game to act as a projectile. While the lack of The Roll™ until now was really bad, the general idea of him being a big buff gorilla was translated perfectly into Smash(nevermind the fact he has some animations taken directly from DKC too).
Moves were made up but what exactly could you hope for when he had almost nothing for specials to take from, big buff guys only got a projectile with DDD in Brawl amd we all know how that is for Balance Purposes™
I mean, could you imagine Ganondorf forcing you to approach him with a long range projectile? Or DK with Diddy's peanut gun?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Samus and DK are products of their time, during Smash 64, standard moves and Smash attacks weren't supposed to be crazy like Mega Man's lemons or Side Smash, they needed to first build the tropes for Smash fighters. At the time of Melee, Samus was THE projectile fighter alongside Link because she had two of them(and a Down-B that I don't know if it counts).
By the time Sakurai and his team started to implement subversions, exaggerations and other variations of the fighter tropes, Samus had already been a estabilished fighter with a playerbase, they couldn't just change it now. Still, her moveset is perfectly fine as far as representing her abilities, just wish she had the Ice Beam at least as a Custom Move.

The same applies to DK, though he has more problems with moves, when Smash 64 was made he had only two games in the DKC series he did anything, and only in one of them did he use a projectile weapon. The first DKC game was all about physically attacking your opponent, unlike Mario who had his Fire Flower in every game to act as a projectile. While the lack of The Roll™ until now was really bad, the general idea of him being a big buff gorilla was translated perfectly into Smash(nevermind the fact he has some animations taken directly from DKC too).
Moves were made up but what exactly could you hope for when he had almost nothing for specials to take from, big buff guys only got a projectile with DDD in Brawl amd we all know how that is for Balance Purposes™
I mean, could you imagine Ganondorf forcing you to approach him with a long range projectile? Or DK with Diddy's peanut gun?

Slight nitpick, Smash 64 was released in January 1999, Dk64 was December of that year, there WAS no Coconut Gun, I didn't mention this when I argued it but I should have been clear I was talking about when Melee added an extra special move

 

[BowserK.Rool]

I don't see how that's an arguement.
Like, why would you add a Samus without her iconic power suit on? What does that represent? Who asked for it? Especially since in the Metroid games, Samus without her suit is worse than Suit Samus in every possible way. I can confirm this, and I only played one Metroid game.

I meant that she basically had her armor on in brawl but when it got damaged enough she turned into zero suit samus, they're still the same character though I do agree that you only need Samus in her regular outfit. She shouldn't have been made 2 separate characters in SSB4.

Marth was actually in 2 games and an anime. Roy's game wasn't even out yet.

He was still exclusive to Japan though, I never even heard of him, Roy or FE until after they were added in SSB and I saw a pick in my Nintendo Power magazine giving a little history about the series.

My mistake. Still, I don't know about F-Zero's life time but it's a fact Earthbound did poorly. Hell, the game only recently got released in Europe because of the virtual console. People grow to love characters after they get in, just look at Snake and Roy as primary examples

I understand that, however characters such as King K. Rool, Dixie Kong, and Ridley should already be in the series by now due to their iconic Bowser, Peach, and Ganondorf like status. I mean, maybe they aren't as well known to many now due to the whole Rareware buyout that happened in 2001 but they were still big names at the time when gaming was hot, especially for Nintendo. The fact that it's taking this long to get them in as playable characters is just frustrating to some of us. And anti-fans treat them like they're just some fads.

 

[Deleted member]

Slight nitpick, Smash 64 was released in January 1999, Dk64 was December of that year, there WAS no Coconut Gun, I didn't mention this when I argued it but I should have been clear I was talking about when Melee added an extra special move

Oh, I thought DK64 had been released before.
So yeah, DK only had the first Country game to work with unless you wanted him to have a barrel toss or something

 

[Deleted member]

I meant that she basically had her armor on in brawl but when it got damaged enough she turned into zero suit samus, they're still the same character though I do agree that you only need Samus in her regular outfit. She shouldn't have been made 2 separate characters in SSB4.

Actually, it was a Final Smash transformation. Just a small nitpick.

He was still exclusive to Japan though, I never even heard of him, Roy or FE until after they were added in SSB and I saw a pick in my Nintendo Power magazine giving a little history about the series.

It is a japanese game though.
Jigglypuff's popularity in Japan was one of the reasons it got in to begin with, alongside being easy to make.

 

[Deleted member]

If that's the case then maybe Kraid could work out as a playable character afterall in SSB being how he's the same size as Samus in the original Metroid game

Also I disagree, Ridley is the same height as well like Samus in the original Metroid game and even like that in the opening intro scene of Melee where it shows her fighting him and it looks great. Also when it comes to size proportions, I'm pretty sure King Dedede is pretty small, it all depends on the game developer whether or not they want to actually make them work or not.

1. The original Metroid depictions are completely non-canon. And if we were going to go with those, that would mean they'd look like THIS.

So yeah, while these depictions of Ridley and Kraid aren't "too big", these depictions are......well.......who the **** wants them?


2. Ridley is the roughly the same size in Melee as he is in Brawl's boss battle. He only looks smaller because of the camera angle.
Note: Look at the Baby.

 

[BowserK.Rool]

Actually, it was a Final Smash transformation. Just a small nitpick.


It is a japanese game though.
Jigglypuff's popularity in Japan was one of the reasons it got in to begin with, alongside being easy to make.

Ok, I missed out on Brawl so forgive me on that part.

True and I think that may be the other problem with this series too, how Sakurai seems to have some bias with the west, we're lucky Diddy Kong and Little Mac even made it in.

1. The original Metroid depictions are completely non-canon. And if we were going to go with those, that would mean they'd look like THIS.

So yeah, while these depictions of Ridley and Kraid aren't "too big", these depictions are......well.......who the **** wants them?


2. Ridley is the roughly the same size in Melee as he is in Brawl's boss battle. He only looks smaller because of the camera angle.
Note: Look at the Baby.

They could still modernize their design to the ones more people are familiar with. Otherwise Bowser would have no hair and be green with only orange arms and legs.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

Re: Ridley size discussion.. feels like i'm back in 2011...

 

[Deleted member]

Ok, I missed out on Brawl so forgive me on that part.

I mean, I'm the guy who started with Sm4sh.
That's okay though. Everyone makes mistakes.

True and I think that may be the other problem with this series too, how Sakurai seems to have some bias with the west, we're lucky Diddy Kong and Little Mac even made it in.

I don't think he has "bias" with the west.
Japanese gamers are their main target audience, that's all.
Sakurai actually considered James Bond, a completely western character, for Melee.

They could still modernize their design to the ones more people are familiar with. Otherwise Bowser would have no hair and be green with only orange arms and legs.

Modern Ridley with NES proportions would look stupid and weird. Not plausible.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I mean, I'm the guy who started with Sm4sh.
That's okay though. Everyone makes mistakes.


I don't think he has "bias" with the west.
Japanese gamers are their main target audience, that's all.
Sakurai actually considered James Bond, a completely western character, for Melee.


Modern Ridley with NES proportions would look stupid and weird. Not plausible.

Don't forget how Takamaru's Japanese popularity didn't help as Sakurai feared he was too obscure for Western audiences and Japan had no idea who Little Mac was!

 

[Deleted member]

Don't forget how Takamaru's Japanese popularity didn't help as Sakurai feared he was too obscure for Western audiences and Japan had no idea who Little Mac was!

Totally forgot about that.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't K. Rool rather popular in Japan? I think I read that somewhere but I'm not sure.

 

[Deleted member]

Ridley would need a completely original design for Smash.
Or perhaps use a scrapped design like the Ridley-2/Ridley-Z design from Zero Mission's concept art.

I'm not entirely opposed to something like that, but I can see why it wouldn't be done.

 

[EdwardSponge]

Totally forgot about that.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't K. Rool rather popular in Japan? I think I read that somewhere but I'm not sure.

After an underdeveloped and rushed research session, I found out that the original DKC sales had 40% in US, 32% in Japan, 18% in EU and 2% everywhere else. Considering how small Japan actually is compared to US and EU, I would say that DKC should be wildly popular in Japan and in turn, K Rool as well.

 

[Deleted member]

After an underdeveloped and rushed research session, I found out that the original DKC sales had 40% in US, 32% in Japan, 18% in EU and 2% everywhere else. Considering how small Japan actually is compared to US and EU, I would say that DKC should be wildly popular in Japan and in turn, K Rool as well.

I was talking about Smash requests.
According to this Source gaming article, K. Rool is one of the most requested characters in Japan.
I don't know how accurate this is, but it's something I guess.

 

[Blue_Sword_Edge]

Ridley would need a completely original design for Smash.
Or perhaps use a scrapped design like the Ridley-2/Ridley-Z design from Zero Mission's concept art.

I'm not entirely opposed to something like that, but I can see why it wouldn't be done.

That would be similar to how Sheik was handled for Smash games after Melee. She got a Twilight Princess design in spite of not appearing in the game.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah, I kind of agree with this, Donkey and Diddy's movesets are pretty bad.
I never play as them because they don't feel like the characters I liked as a child, just some... animals.

Samus and Kirby have similar problems, very boring movesets considering the incredible amount of potential they have, but they are "fine".
Like why can't Samus shoot her projectiles like Mega Man (multiple at the same time), why can't she charge in the air?, why can't she use Screw Attack more than one time like Witch Twist?, Why doesn't she have ice in her moveset?.

Kirby is just boring, 90% of the moveset are kicks that have the excuse of being from the Fighter ability, but yeah, boring... and bad.

Pikachu also feels kinda weird for me, it tries too hard to be cute, and I like Pikachu thanks to the anime, where he is super strong and likes to battle. Also no Iron Tail, and Volt Tackle being a weird floating ball.

Also, Jigglypuff, yeah, Rest, what is that,
Sing, her more iconic move, being totally useless, etc.

All the very unique and "kinda canon" movesets from the Smash 4 newcomers made me realize how bad some of the old ones are.

THIS!! This is what I dislike about Smash 4 a lot. The effortlessness towards revamping the old cast. Despite the crazy amount of moveset potential for the likes of DK, Diddy, Kirby, Pikachu, Samus, Charizard, even Mewtwo, Ganondorf and Ness.. I wish they all had a more canon moveset. Ryu has his whole damn Street Fighter moveset in Smash. Why can't we have more of this sort of dedication towards the source material of characters?? Would make Smash more fun to play...

 

[Cutie Gwen]

THIS!! This is what I dislike about Smash 4 a lot. The effortlessness towards revamping the old cast. Despite the crazy amount of moveset potential for the likes of DK, Diddy, Kirby, Pikachu, Samus, Charizard, even Mewtwo, Ganondorf and Ness.. I wish they all had a more canon moveset. Ryu has his whole damn Street Fighter moveset in Smash. Why can't we have more of this sort of dedication towards the source material of characters?? Would make Smash more fun to play...

Well, with some of your examples it depends. Kirby just has the problem of having too much to work with, DK at the time didn't have enough to work with, Diddy's mostly fine, Pikachu's fine, Charizard's fine and Mewtwo arguably made more sense later due to his FAir being similar to Shadow Claw, Plus, I do believe you're exaggerating with Ryu. If you ask me, that's EXACTLY what custom moves should have done

 

[BowserK.Rool]

I mean, I'm the guy who started with Sm4sh.
That's okay though. Everyone makes mistakes.


I don't think he has "bias" with the west.
Japanese gamers are their main target audience, that's all.
Sakurai actually considered James Bond, a completely western character, for Melee.


Modern Ridley with NES proportions would look stupid and weird. Not plausible.

Yeah, I read about that but I can see why it was scrapped since James Bond is actually a movie character. Also he likely would've been based on Pierce Brosnan's rendition of him because of Goldeneye amd the other JB games that came out for N64. It'd be kind of odd having an actor in a game.

Anything's plausible if the director's willing to do anything about it. Project M Ridley was actually pretty good, sure he might need to be buffed up a little more in certain parts but otherwise that's the ideal playable size for him as an ssb fighter. If a kid can make a character like Ridley work but Sakurai can't then we have a serious problem.

 

[EdwardSponge]

THIS!! This is what I dislike about Smash 4 a lot. The effortlessness towards revamping the old cast. Despite the crazy amount of moveset potential for the likes of DK, Diddy, Kirby, Pikachu, Samus, Charizard, even Mewtwo, Ganondorf and Ness.. I wish they all had a more canon moveset. Ryu has his whole damn Street Fighter moveset in Smash. Why can't we have more of this sort of dedication towards the source material of characters?? Would make Smash more fun to play...

It's a bummer that a lot of characters in smash have outdated or even unworthy movesets.
But at the same time, a lot of people would be upset if it was changed.

If I was Sakurai I would just give Ganondorf a new moveset, and give the old moveset to BloodFalcon so that old Ganondorf mains can still play their character, and repeat process for other trash movesets.

 

[Bowserlick]

Make Ridley a boss. If you defeat him on a certain difficulty setting, you discover a glass tube container with a smaller "fighter" sized Ridley. Break the glass, while avoiding/ defeating the weaponized defense system and you unlock fighter Ridley.

 

[Blue_Sword_Edge]

Yeah, I read about that but I can see why it was scrapped since James Bond is actually a movie character. Also he likely would've been based on Pierce Brosnan's rendition of him because of Goldeneye amd the other JB games that came out for N64. It'd be kind of odd having an actor in a game.

Sorry to minor nitpick, James Bond is actually a novel and short story character that was adapted into iconic movies. But yeah, it would seem odd having an actor's likeness which indeed would've been Pierce Brosnan's take. Also, it would have been a licensing nightmare for Mr. Bond.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Make Ridley a boss. If you defeat him on a certain difficulty setting, you discover a glass tube container with a smaller "fighter" sized Ridley. Break the glass, while avoiding/ defeating the weaponized defense system and you unlock fighter Ridley.

Eh, I feel like that'd be too much work. I WOULD like a boss rush mode in which you fight various bosses from the franchises in Smash. Fighting *insert Legendary pokemon here*, one of Bowser Jr's mechs, a Kirby boss, Kraid, etc.

 

[Bowserlick]

Eh, I feel like that'd be too much work. I WOULD like a boss rush mode in which you fight various bosses from the franchises in Smash. Fighting *insert Legendary pokemon here*, one of Bowser Jr's mechs, a Kirby boss, Kraid, etc.

The only extra work would be making Ridley a playable character. You can still have a boss rush mode.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

All the very unique and "kinda canon" movesets from the Smash 4 newcomers made me realize how bad some of the old ones are.

I so agree to this, but...

Yeah, I kind of agree with this, Donkey and Diddy's movesets are pretty bad.
I never play as them because they don't feel like the characters I liked as a child, just some... animals.

I feel like the personality is more to blame for them than the actual movesets, especially since they do take stuff from their games.

The problem is that their voices sound more like the actual animals they're based on rather than the characters themselves. Just listen to the voices clips in Smash than the ones from one of their games. DK in particular is night and day.

Samus and Kirby have similar problems, very boring movesets considering the incredible amount of potential they have, but they are "fine".
Like why can't Samus shoot her projectiles like Mega Man (multiple at the same time), why can't she charge in the air?, why can't she use Screw Attack more than one time like Witch Twist?, Why doesn't she have ice in her moveset?.

I agree a lot for the Samus stuff. A lot of games which introduced a lot of things give Samus a ton of potential. Even looking back to older titles can give new ideas, like finally giving her a goddamn crawl.

Kirby is just boring, 90% of the moveset are kicks that have the excuse of being from the Fighter ability, but yeah, boring... and bad.

Fighter ability does make sense. It's boring, but it makes sense.

I feel like what could make Kirby really special is change more moves than just neutral special when copying someone. Kinda like how the different power-ups in Kirby games give multiple moves.

Pikachu also feels kinda weird for me, it tries too hard to be cute, and I like Pikachu thanks to the anime, where he is super strong and likes to battle. Also no Iron Tail, and Volt Tackle being a weird floating ball.

Any move where Pikachu uses his tail can be seen as Iron Tail, especially his up smash. It doesn't need to be a special to be in his moveset.

Volt Tackle... yeah, I have nothing to say for it...

Also, Jigglypuff, yeah, Rest, what is that,
Sing, her more iconic move, being totally useless, etc.

To be fair, Rest as it is in the Pokemon games would be weird in Smash. And probably too risky to even use. The real problem of Puff's down B is the name, but since it's been called that way for almost 20 years in Smash games, I doubt it's gonna change.

As for Sing... yeah, I can't defend that move. It had a good idea, but a really bad execution.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ganondorf's popularity as a character hasn't ever been fully adressed by Nintendo yet I feel. Zelda is failing to keep people interested in the franchise by having such a dramatic change of cast everytime. Ganondorf and Sheik should've appeared in the Zelda franchise more after being playable in Smash since Melee. I still don't understand why Nintendo never made a game with the 3 Triforce owners playable togheter.

Custom Moves also should be expanded upon. Maybe even make an actual RPG-like level up system for your Special Attacks for 1 Player Mode. VS Mode would then have matches with standard or more balanced versions of the moveset, or fight using your leveled up 1 Player Mode character. Skip stickers completely. But do expand on the equipment section. Here you can give Mario a Hammer, Link the Biggoron Sword, Ike gets Urvan (axe), Diddy double Peanut Popguns, Pokemon TM moves / Move Tutors, Samus different beam weapons, and that would keep the game going. Would be excellent to use Smash 4 as a base game honestly. And having over powered Specials and such could help the overal balance cause as if the neutral / balanced version of the attack is poor there's a easy in game way to fix it. Also I wouldnt mind DLC packs of character equipment and new abilities.

Online tournaments also should be encouraged to use a more standardised competitive form of battles in For Glory (NO MINUTE MATCHES BY GOD BY DEAR SWEET GOD ALMIGHTY) and online results could even give a glimpse of what is balanced and what is not.

As said before, Smash 4 had great overall balance. NOT in the newcomer per franchise matter, or in dedication to source material sense of balance, and Bayonetta vs Jigglypuff is still terrible, but probably no worse than 35-65 at worst. That's how in Melee, Donkey Kong and Fox fare up against each other (played this matchup a lot, it's pain and DK isn't even bottom tier). That's great for such a big roster.

What I just want is the dedication towards all gaming franchises, to their source material and movesets, and to overall balance. I want popular newcomers with functional movesets and I want bad movesets and characters adressed as much as Bowser and Pit for example in Smash 4.

Before you scream this stuff would be overpowered, well, sure. But with overpowered stuff, so comes a meta game. There's broken stuff that is gonna be abused, but the sheer amount of options would allow for creating a counter to said character. This creates popular sets, and even allows Smash to be a collection based fighter where strategy and adaptability become key to win. The more popular a set, the more players would be able to overthrow this character with their own equipment and abilities set on said characters.

 

[EdwardSponge]

Make Ridley a boss. If you defeat him on a certain difficulty setting, you discover a glass tube container with a smaller "fighter" sized Ridley. Break the glass, while avoiding/ defeating the weaponized defense system and you unlock fighter Ridley.

Complete all challenges in Smash 5, one of which being defeat master Fortress on 9.0 with every character while blindfolded in under an hour without losing a single stock.
Smash Bros Credits roll but all C's have been replaced with K's.
Hit every single word in the credits flawlessly only using DK's airial down B.
Nintendo Switch crashes, upon booting it up again, you discover the entire virtual console library installed.
Beat every single game using the gamecube controller adapter and the DK Bongos controller.
After that, go to the smash bros character selection screen and select Minion from Despicable Me.
Hit your opponent with the paddle ball item 29,998,559,671,349 times in a row.
Make sure you win the match with a kill throw, and then return to the character select screen.
Put the controller down and walk outside, discover that it is now the year 21XX and the world has ended due to nuclear war and everyone you know is dead. Find a moist patch of dirt, scoop it up and shove some of it into the Switch's game slot.
Return to for glory and wait approximately 6 - 29 hours until you find someone who isn't playing as Cloud or Bayonetta.
Down Taunt -5 times and the game will end. You will be taken to an alternate version of Dark Dr Female Corrin's stage but instead of a pile salt in the middle of the stage, it will be a banana hoard and you must eat every single one in order of side from least expanded to most expanded.
Once full of bananas K Rool will kidnap you and tie you up.

K Rool has just unlocked you as a playable character.

 

[Blue_Sword_Edge]

Also, Jigglypuff, yeah, Rest, what is that,
Sing, her more iconic move, being totally useless, etc.

All the very unique and "kinda canon" movesets from the Smash 4 newcomers made me realize how bad some of the old ones are.

To be fair, Rest as it is in the Pokemon games would be weird in Smash. And probably too risky to even use. The real problem of Puff's down B is the name, but since it's been called that way for almost 20 years in Smash games, I doubt it's gonna change.

As for Sing... yeah, I can't defend that move. It had a good idea, but a really bad execution.

Although movesets are likely not going to change, I would change "Sing" to be a Neutral Special. It'd be a coin toss between "Rollout" and "Pound" for the side special. Jigglypuff's issue to me being solved is getting an up special that gives Jigglypuff a fighting chance to recover after all the multi-jumps are used. I suggest "Dazzling Gleam" that works similar to Wario's "Corkscrew Jump" but blasting the fairy light at the max height of the jump.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I still don't understand why Nintendo never made a game with the 3 Triforce owners playable togheter.

The fact that one of them is always the main villain probably has something to do with it.

As for Zelda, Spirit Tracks exists.