Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Diddy Kong]

Because she absolutely debuted in the game called Donkey Kong, not Mario Bros. Of course I'd put her under the DK icon. That doesn't ruin any fun or mean anything other than her debut series.

She always felt like the damsel in distress specifically due to the DK series, not Mario. It's cool she got into Odyssey, no questioning that, but that doesn't change my opinion of what series she should be under.

Name a recent Donkey Kong game she's been in then. Mario vs Donkey Kong still has Mario as the main hero, and features nothing of DKC lore or anything. It's all Mario characters and Donkey Kong himself, Pauline appeared there before Odyssey. She's a Mario character.

 

[Deleted member]

Pauline is as much of a DK character as Mario himself is.
The "DK" series in Smash is in reality the "DK Country" series, really.
Nevermind the fact that her most recent appearence, and the only reason people are considering her again, is a freaking Mario game.

Except (almost) everything from the classic Donkey Kong within the context in Smash is under the DK label, including Pauline herself if you check her trophy.
One NPC role in a Mario game doesn't change that.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

Pauline is a boring character and her potential is vastly overrated. Her before Dixie, K.Rool, or hell even Lanky, would be very disappointing.

 

[Deleted member]

Except (almost) everything from the classic Donkey Kong within the context in Smash is under the DK label, including Pauline herself if you check her trophy.
One NPC role in a Mario game doesn't change that.

She still has the entire Mario vs DK series as Diddy mentioned but I didn't know about the trophy label so I guess Sakurai is high or smth

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Except (almost) everything from the classic Donkey Kong within the context in Smash is under the DK label, including Pauline herself if you check her trophy.
One NPC role in a Mario game doesn't change that.

Heck, isn't the Hammer the only thing from Donkey Kong other than Jumpman(A.K.A. Mario) that properly transferred to the Mario series in general? And that's only cause of the Hammer Brothers. We did get some similar stuff, like the Springs, and I think the Sparky were based upon something from the DK games.

 

[Deleted member]

She still has the entire Mario vs DK series as Diddy mentioned but I didn't know about the trophy label so I guess Sakurai is high or smth

Yeah, the Mario vs. Donkey Kong series.
The series meant to modernize the original Donkey Kong game concept with the construction aesthetics and the original rivalry between man and ape (just with the modern ape since the classic ape is a senior citizen now.).

The only reason why Pauline showed up starting in the second game in that sub-series is BECAUSE of her ties to the original Donkey Kong game, with Odyssey being the only game she's in that isn't themed after Donkey Kong.
To use those to argue she's a "Mario" character is asinine.

Heck, isn't the Hammer the only thing from Donkey Kong other than Jumpman(A.K.A. Mario) that properly transferred to the Mario series in general? And that's only cause of the Hammer Brothers. We did get some similar stuff, like the Springs, and I think the Sparky were based upon something from the DK games.

Not the Hammer Bros.
Mario himself. In the RPGs.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, the Mario vs. Donkey Kong series.
The series meant to modernize the original Donkey Kong game concept with the construction aesthetics and the original rivalry between man and ape (just with the modern ape since the classic ape is a senior citizen now.).

The only reason why Pauline showed up starting in the second game in that sub-series is BECAUSE of her ties to the original Donkey Kong game, with Odyssey being the only game she's in that isn't themed after Donkey Kong.
To use those to argue she's a "Mario" character is asinine.


Not the Hammer Bros.
Mario himself. In the RPGs.

It's still mainly a Mario game, sure it has DK in it and he's pretty inportant but Mario's name still comes first in the title

 

[Luminario]

So far hasn't Pauline only appeared only in games where Mario is the star? iirc DK's only been the antagonist or absent in the case of Odyssey (not counting the call back to 25M during her concert). She's a Mario character simply due to Mario being the star of the games she's been in.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I currently can't see any Mario newcomer right now.

Same here. Outside of Toad, we really don't have any other notable non-generic characters in the mainstream Super Mario series who would actually work.

King K. Rool would obviously represent the Donkey Kong portion of the Mario universe.

 

[Opossum]

It's still mainly a Mario game, sure it has DK in it and he's pretty inportant but Mario's name still comes first in the title

It's as much a Mario game as the original Donkey Kong is. And that game's considered a DK game in Smash. After all, his name is in the title.

 

[Deleted member]

It's still mainly a Mario game, sure it has DK in it and he's pretty inportant but Mario's name still comes first in the title

....that's literally like saying the Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games series is mainly a series of Mario games just because Mario's name comes before Sonic's.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Not the Hammer Bros.
Mario himself. In the RPGs.

True. I mean a hammer in general showing up, though. But yeah, that's the first appearance of the specific hammer design. I forget, what enemies were in Donkey Kong? Not counting DK(which can often be considered Cranky) himself.

 

[Opossum]

Odyssey wouldn't change what series Pauline falls under in Smash, especially when New Donk is littered with DK references. After all, if Odyssey was enough to change Pauline's series icon...

Spoiler

Guess we better change Yoshi's, too.

 

[Diddy Kong]

As said before, Mario is the main hero of the Mario vs Donkey Kong sub series. There's nothing Donkey Kong about it, but a lot of Mario drones are in the game. It's mainly a Mario game, and so of course is Odyssey.

Newcomer: Pauline
Last Appearance: Mario Odyssey
Learn more about Pauline on www.marioodyssey.com
Logo: Donkey Kong

 

[Deleted member]

True. I mean a hammer in general showing up, though. But yeah, that's the first appearance of the specific hammer design. I forget, what enemies were in Donkey Kong? Not counting DK(which can often be considered Cranky) himself.

The only thing that was an "enemy" other than Donkey Kong himself is the Oil Drum that spawns fireballs that chase after you, if I remember correctly.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The only thing that was an "enemy" other than Donkey Kong himself is the Oil Drum that spawns fireballs that chase after you, if I remember correctly.

Wasn't there something similar to a sparky that appeared on the ladders? Or maybe that was it. I remember it in 75m, the Brawl and Smash 4 stage. Then again, maybe it was just a Mario enemy thrown on there to spice it up?

 

[Deleted member]

Wasn't there something similar to a sparky that appeared on the ladders? Or maybe that was it. I remember it in 75m, the Brawl and Smash 4 stage. Then again, maybe it was just a Mario enemy thrown on there to spice it up?

Those were the Fires that the Oil Drum spawned.

 

[Pythagoras]

Honestly, my only hope is that Dr. Mario isn't E Tier next time around...

 

[FalKoopa]

Honestly, my only hope is that Dr. Mario isn't E Tier next time around...

I don't think Smash will ever be properly balanced unless they employ mass-playtesting, which is doubtful.

 

[Delzethin]

What does it even matter what logo Pauline would have? I doubt her existence would preclude a different Mario or DK character from getting in from logo alone anyway. I mean, we just saw two Mario newcomers happen in Smash 4's base release.

Especially since she doesn't really have much to work with moveset-wise, and Super Mario Odyssey didn't do much to aid that. Rosalina's moveset was doable because it used things that were established in Super Mario Galaxy--being basically a godlike figure with cosmic powers who watches over the Lumas. In contrast, we have nothing that'd link Pauline to Cappy other than them both showing up in the same game. They don't even interact with each other, much less ever work together!

I do think she'll start showing up in Mario Kart and other Mario spinoffs now, though.

 

[FalKoopa]

On the topic of Mario newcomers, I don't really expect one.

As Del said, Pauline didn't really get much in the way of moveset material, and (imo) she's the only significant character introduced to Mario games since Smash 4.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I don't think Smash will ever be properly balanced unless they employ mass-playtesting, which is doubtful.

Even then, once you get to the Final Smash fighters, they pretty much throw balancing out the window. At least having time limits can help keep them from completely annihilating the competition too quickly.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Personally, I see a Mario character being iffy just based on timing.

Mario Odyssey is the "relevant" mario game, but the only character getting any push would be Pauline, which is a character I really don't see getting in. I mean yeah Sakurai seems to love DK Arcade but I don't think he would go THAT far.

Paper Mario had a huge boost after Color splash and Paper Jam both coming out, but now he is MIA.

Captain Toad got his own damn game, but that was it.

The list goes on. The best chance I can give any Mario character is that the smash team explicitly looks back at the Wii U/3DS era for characters in which case I could see Paper Mario or Toad sneaking in. Otherwise I think it's no-go.

 

[NintenRob]

I'd like King Boo as a Mario character. Arch-nemesis of iconic player 2, and actually in more than just Luigi's Mansion.

 

[Curious Villager]

The DK series is reserved for both the DKC series and the classic arcade based DK series, not just solely for the former. Hence why 75m also uses the DK logo as well as Pauline's trophy being among the DK line. I wouldn't exactly consider her just yet until she starts to make appearances within the Mario Spin off's, much like Rosalina did, as that will probably give a better idea on how much of an impact her appearance in Odyssey was for Nintendo.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Okay, then they better label the potential New Donk City stage as a DK stage too. Cause that's how much sense you want to make here.

 

[BowserK.Rool]

I'd rather them make a completley new ssb game instead, make Ridley playable and add K. Rool, Dixie Kong, etc. as well as some new and actually interesting modes like adventure and the original break the targets. Some more unique stages that aren't just mainly Mario and Zelda ones would be nice too. Give DK and Metroid some variety for once instead of just jungle and lava stages all the time.

 

[Curious Villager]

Okay, then they better label the potential New Donk City stage as a DK stage too. Cause that's how much sense you want to make here.

Might as well, they lumped the Yoshi's Island stage from Super Mario World as a Yoshi series stage after all. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Sakurai should have thought this whole series icon thing better through when he first conceptualized them, especially with series like Yoshi, DK and Wario that have close connections with Mario and have multiple separate franchises.

 

[Arcadenik]

The DK series is reserved for both the DKC series and the classic arcade based DK series, not just solely for the former. Hence why 75m also uses the DK logo as well as Pauline's trophy being among the DK line. I wouldn't exactly consider her just yet until she starts to make appearances within the Mario Spin off's, much like Rosalina did, as that will probably give a better idea on how much of an impact her appearance in Odyssey was for Nintendo.

Yes. I really would love to see Pauline in Mario Kart, Mario Party, etc. I also would love to see New Donk City as a race course in Mario Kart.

 

[Opossum]

Okay, then they better label the potential New Donk City stage as a DK stage too. Cause that's how much sense you want to make here.

Or, hear me out.

Pauline isn't playable, and gets two trophies. One is labeled "Pauline" and is her Mario vs DK self, in the DK section. This one doesn't get a subtitle because she belongs here. The trophy delves into her history.

A second trophy, "Pauline (Odyssey)" goes in the Mario section and, as the subtitle reflects, uses her mayor design and delves into solely her role in Odyssey.


This even has precedent with Little Mac's Captain Rainbow trophy not being with the Punch-Out!! trophies. Playable Pauline would still undoubtedly be a DK character though.

 

[Geno Boost]

I know it's very unlucky to happen but has anyone thought of second Yoshi rep being Stork and Poochy and work as duo they would be a bigger version of duck hunt and have different moveset I think it would be fun to have them.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I know it's very unlucky to happen but has anyone thought of second Yoshi rep being Stork and Poochy and work as duo they would be a bigger version of duck hunt and have different moveset I think it would be fun to have them.

Could be a fun semi-clone. Whether it'd be somewhat similar to them(like Jigglypuff) or fairly different, but clearly based upon the same idea(like Wolf). Any ideas for a moveset?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Or, hear me out.

Pauline isn't playable, and gets two trophies. One is labeled "Pauline" and is her Mario vs DK self, in the DK section. This one doesn't get a subtitle because she belongs here. The trophy delves into her history.

A second trophy, "Pauline (Odyssey)" goes in the Mario section and, as the subtitle reflects, uses her mayor design and delves into solely her role in Odyssey.


This even has precedent with Little Mac's Captain Rainbow trophy not being with the Punch-Out!! trophies. Playable Pauline would still undoubtedly be a DK character though.

Well, now it's official. Pauline is a character I specifically do NOT want in.

(:

 

[Deleted member]

I really can't see a stork being added just because one is seen carrying Mario and Luigi in the prologue of Yoshi's Island.
That's probably the most out there choice I've ever heard from first party games

 

[Arcadenik]

Could be a fun semi-clone. Whether it'd be somewhat similar to them(like Jigglypuff) or fairly different, but clearly based upon the same idea(like Wolf). Any ideas for a moveset?

I still want Duck Hunt to have multiple jumps like Jigglypuff and Pit. My idea for Duck Hunt Dog was that Dog and Duck would be like Banjo-Kazooie. I got that in the game.

But that idea wasn’t just for aesthetics... it was for function as well. I envisioned that Duck would ride on Dog’s back and peck enemies from there and carry Dog via Up+B AND multiple jumps.

I also envisioned Duck Hunt gliding like in Brawl but that gliding mechanic was cut from SSB4... but I still want multiple jumps.

 

[Mr. Insecto Sheep]

As said before, Mario is the main hero of the Mario vs Donkey Kong sub series. There's nothing Donkey Kong about it, but a lot of Mario drones are in the game. It's mainly a Mario game, and so of course is Odyssey.

Newcomer: Pauline
Last Appearance: Mario Odyssey
Learn more about Pauline on www.marioodyssey.com
Logo: Donkey Kong

this sounds like a really good idea actually although i'm not sure how a moveset would be made

 

[Geno Boost]

Could be a fun semi-clone. Whether it'd be somewhat similar to them(like Jigglypuff) or fairly different, but clearly based upon the same idea(like Wolf). Any ideas for a moveset?

Throwing babies as final smash and side B

 

[Mr. Insecto Sheep]

A stork?

how would that even be introduced in a reveal trailer without everyone in the world laughing?

 

[Diddy Kong]

A stork?

how would that even be introduced in a reveal trailer without everyone in the world laughing?

That would be the greatest part. I am totally down for more clown characters. Not every new addition has to be totally serious. They can have some joke characters among them, especially with a bigger cast than we're having now, such a addition would be welcome.

 

[TheHumanSonikku]

I have a feeling we're having one of those "my character is perfect, every other character will be a disappointment" thing going on.

Does it matter if a series gets another rep? If the character plays well, I don't care about a franchise getting more characters. Since when does there have to be some limit?