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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Impa4Smash

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Dixie Kong makes some sense as an Echo though. She is similar enough to Diddy Kong that it's reasonable to think she could be included as an Echo to sate fan-demand. She is similar in build and similar enough in abilities with the only truly major difference being her using hair to attack and float.

It makes no sense for Rex to be an Echo at all.


What?

Rex and Pyra are from Xenoblade Chronicles 2.

A game developed by Nintendo. Rex and Pyra are first-party characters, as is Shulk and the Xenoblade Chronicles series.
As long as Dixie has a recovery using her hair. Everything else can be taken from Diddy. Just make the peanut gun a bubblegum gun.

She wouldn’t be an echo, but it would be super easy and at least she’s be in the game
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Please do not double post. Edit your messages instead. :)

On another note, I honestly love Falcondorf. I feel he fits perfectly as the characterization is more accurate to the versions of Ganondorf presented. He's a murderer. He's purely about power moreso than just flinging magical spells around. The tiny change that Ultimate did kept him in-line with his personality, despite giving him a non-canon weapon for the sake of fan demand.
 

TheLastJinjo

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No he was not. He was Magic space wizard in OoT. And you cannot look me in the eyes and say for the last 15 years people did not want Ganondorf de-falconed and have a more appropriate moveset. It was a claim every game. Give his moveset to Black shadow. I remember those wars.
No, he pretty much was Captain Falcon. His only unique ability was shooting an orb at Link.
 

Mc.Rad

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I had a weird thought just now, what if the Rabbids joined in?

Like... it wouldn't be the first time they were in a platform fighter...lol
 

Zinith

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Okay, Xenoblade 1 revolves around the Monado and it's purpose to Bionis and it's goal. The primary function of the Monado is to enhance the abilities of it's wielder and his allies. Ultimately the Monado's goals are-- um, less than noble, but it stands that the Monado is the driving force of the plot. Shulk is very much represented well in Smash even if it's not a 1:1 recreation.

Xenoblade 2 on the other hand revolves around Drivers and the relationship between them and their Blades. It's not a mere gimmick, it's the Foundation of the game. Whereas XB1 was about testing your limits and breaking away from what you were predestined to become, XC2 is about the bond between warrior and weapon. Rex would be poorly represented if he were to be an Echo of Shulk...
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I had a weird thought just now, what if the Rabbids joined in?

Like... it wouldn't be the first time they were in a platform fighter...lol
Difference is they wouldn't feel shoehorned in. It was honestly just a pointless addition in TMNT Smash Up.

When it comes to Ultimate, they are an actual iconic unique series(one that started from Rabbids, but became their own thing) and can be properly chosen as a potential Smash character. I'm good with that, really. Would also love them, as I find them pretty fun and unique as characters.
 

TheLastJinjo

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I mean not really?
Sword Bash Doesn't
Rolling Smash only decrease agro
Double Spinning Edge Doesn't
Anchor shot drops hp.

And the blade specials don't change stats either.

There aren't any stat changing moves in the game unless you count moves that force evasion.
I mean Shulk's arts are mostly made up in Smash.
 

Mc.Rad

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Difference is they wouldn't feel shoehorned in. It was honestly just a pointless addition in TMNT Smash Up.

When it comes to Ultimate, they are an actual iconic unique series(one that started from Rabbids, but became their own thing) and can be properly chosen as a potential Smash character. I'm good with that, really. Would also love them, as I find them pretty fun and unique as characters.
Yeah, people would expect like the singular Rabbit in...
But I'm gonna be honest... I think the Shopping Cart Duo from Rabbids Go Home would be the best rep and would be the most creative
 

RandomAce

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Okay, Xenoblade 1 revolves around the Monado and it's purpose to Bionis and it's goal. The primary function of the Monado is to enhance the abilities of it's wielder and his allies. Ultimately the Monado's goals are-- um, less than noble, but it stands that the Monado is the driving force of the plot. Shulk is very much represented well in Smash even if it's not a 1:1 recreation.

Xenoblade 2 on the other hand revolves around Drivers and the relationship between them and their Blades. It's not a mere gimmick, it's the Foundation of the game. Whereas XB1 was about testing your limits and breaking away from what you were predestined to become, XC2 is about the bond between warrior and weapon. Rex would be poorly represented if he were to be an Echo of Shulk...
This.

Unlike a lot of the other clones, Rex has fundamental properties that make him who he is, and that includes his blades.

Having Rex without Pyra and as an echo of Shulk is just a disservice to the character. At least with Ganondorf he was portrayed as a brutal powerhouse with malicious intent, but Rex without Pyra just wouldn’t make sense.
 

MoonlitIllusion

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I had a weird thought just now, what if the Rabbids joined in?

Like... it wouldn't be the first time they were in a platform fighter...lol
I will personally fight both Michel ancel and sakurai if the rabbids get in before rayman. They'd make a perfect assist trophy or final smash for rayman though
 

Hinata

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I mean Shulk's arts are mostly made up in Smash.
No, they're not. Only Monado Jump and Monado Smash are made-up. Monado Speed, Monado Shield, Monado Buster, Back Slash, and Air Slash are all very real Arts that Shulk has in Xenoblade 1.

You gotta be trolling at this point.
 

TheLastJinjo

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I had a weird thought just now, what if the Rabbids joined in?

Like... it wouldn't be the first time they were in a platform fighter...lol
Nah. I think the most we'll get in the way of third parties besides Simon is Rayman and Shovel Knight as assist trophies.

Rabbids would make a nice assist trophy though.
 

drag0nscythe

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Please do not double post. Edit your messages instead. :)

On another note, I honestly love Falcondorf. I feel he fits perfectly as the characterization is more accurate to the versions of Ganondorf presented. He's a murderer. He's purely about power moreso than just flinging magical spells around. The tiny change that Ultimate did kept him in-line with his personality, despite giving him a non-canon weapon for the sake of fan demand.
Don't get me wrong. I like him the way he was in Smash Wii U. I just know being 100% accurate is not a major concern.

No, he pretty much was Captain Falcon. His only unique ability was shooting an orb at Link.
I may have forgotten, but that was all Ganondorf did in OoT.
 

Mc.Rad

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I will personally fight both Michel ancel and sakurai if the rabbids get in before rayman. They'd make a perfect assist trophy or final smash for rayman though
I can see ppl not liking them because of their past, but honestly Mario Plus Rabbids Kingdom Battle really helped their reputation by like... a lot... In fact Miyamoto actually likes them so I dunno if he's gonna try to pick favorites and convince Sakurai to let them in... Stranger requests have happened and were accepted...
 

DaybreakHorizon

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I think where the misunderstanding comes from is that "clones" are not a result of characters not having enough differences to qualify a unique fighter.

They are usually a result of it being easier to make them that way. This could either be because they were a late addition, lower priority, or chosen to be clones (to whatever extent) to make time for more newcomers.

Rex being a unique fighter or being a clone is pretty much 50/50 because he admittedly has the affinity mechanic, but aside from that, he is undeniably similar to Shulk. The Aegis Blade functions similarly to the Monado, and like the Monado, it has it's own set of Driver Arts that can change your stats. So right there, that can be made to create Rex easily. So it's totally possible that Sakurai will take advantage of those similarities.

Only time will tell which way he decides to go.

Read the above.
No, it doesn't.
http://xenoblade.wikia.com/wiki/Pyra#Abilities
http://xenoblade.wikia.com/wiki/Mythra#Abilities
Abilities (for both Pyra and Mythra)
Arts
Blade Arts (Pyra)
Blade Arts (Mythra)
Compare this to Shulk and the Monado:
http://xenoblade.wikia.com/wiki/Shulk#Arts
  • Activate Monado [Talent Art] [Aura] - Switches Shulk's available Arts between his normal Arts and Monado Arts.
  • Buster - Damages enemies in a straight line. Mechon and Machina suffer double damage.
  • Enchant - Allows allies to damage Mechon for a time and boosts attack power.
  • Shield - Blocks Talent Arts of equal level or lower. Best used when Shulk has a vision.
  • Speed - Improves evasion of a single ally.
  • Purge - Damages single target at a distance. Removes Auras and Spike effects and inflicts Aura Seal.
  • Eater - Damages enemies in front, removes all buffs and inflicts Bleed.
  • Armour - Reduces all Physical and Ether damage to the party.
  • Cyclone - Damages all enemies around Shulk. Enemies suffering Break will be Toppled.
Shulk has a much large focus on buff and debuffs compared to both Pyra and Mythra, who apply buffs that have nothing to do with the ones Shulk use.
The Aegis =/= The Monado. Besides:
ANOTHER CHARACTER ACTUALLY USES THE MONADO IN THE GAME
Malos's_Monado_Armor.png

I mean Shulk's arts are mostly made up in Smash.
I know Hinata Hinata already said this, but it still bears mention. Monado Speed, Shield, and Buster all come from the game (Buster is altered, but it still comes from the game). Only two of his artes (Jump and Smash) are made up, but still make sense for his character.
 
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CatRaccoonBL

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I mean Shulk's arts are mostly made up in Smash.
That wasn't the point though. You said there were driver arts in 2 that changed stats.

Also 3 of Shulk's were based on actual arts in Xenoblade 1.
Shield was based on Monodo Shield which negated a Monster's Talent Art. Effectively making it do 1 damage.
Speed made you avoid physical attacks for a time.
Buster was single high damaging attack.

You can clearly see how all of these translated to Smash. Rex has nothing insane like those monado arts.
 

TheLastJinjo

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He hasn't.

He's mentioned a few times before, in this thread, that he's never played XC2.
What are you talking about? I own the game. I haven't beaten it, but you're just assuming I haven't played the game because of a post I made MONTHS ago?

So, you're pretty much a liar?
 
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Mc.Rad

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https://youtu.be/OJ6XpUz2RmA
I know this is a bit offtopic now, but I kinda want to say that I really want to see this song in Smash Ultimate... come to think of it the composers of Pokemon Mystery Dungeon did compose the main theme to Smash 5 I think??
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Yeah, people would expect like the singular Rabbit in...
But I'm gonna be honest... I think the Shopping Cart Duo from Rabbids Go Home would be the best rep and would be the most creative
That sounds like it could be super fun~

Don't get me wrong. I like him the way he was in Smash Wii U. I just know being 100% accurate is not a major concern.
But it still has to be kept logical. Ganondorf works logically while keeping his personality. This doesn't work for Rex because he really isn't capable of doing any of that, and he requires his Blades to actually do a lot of unique stuff, making him impossible to be an Echo.

I may have forgotten, but that was all Ganondorf did in OoT.
He did an electrical ground pound too. And used his own power to destroy his castle, besides turning into Ganon via the Triforce. He doesn't show a lot of actual magic in OOT, or in general, really(his monster form, Ganon, actually uses more magic overall). He also punches starting in WW. But he was at one point thought of as a guy who would punch if the official artwork for OOT means anything. But yeah, he isn't "just Captain Falcon", he's a character who is easily capable of performing Captain Falcon's moves and happens to have the same build due to the tech demo. Which is also the main reason he got a sword in Ultimate, as he was intended to use the Sword from the Tech Demo anyway. It's funny that his first full use of a weapon is one he doesn't have in canon at all. Only TP Ganondorf via custom moves in Smash 4 ever used a canon weapon for any attack. And well, used it for a taunt too.
 

Knight Dude

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I'm curious if the push for Shovel Knight will even amount to anything. While a popular game by indie standards, not too many people outside of the internet would really too familiar with him.

I'd still slightly prefer Shantae, since she has more than 1 main game to her name.
 

DaybreakHorizon

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I know this is a bit offtopic now, but I kinda want to say that I really want to see this song in Smash Ultimate... come to think of it the composers of Pokemon Mystery Dungeon did compose the main theme to Smash 5 I think??
What are you talking about? I own the game. I haven't beaten it, but you're just assuming I haven't played the game because of a post I made MONTHS ago?

So, you're pretty much a liar?
Dude probably didn't know. You don't have to resort to Ad Hominem.
 

Mc.Rad

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Also, even though Smash 5 is going through with all the "Every One is Here" thing... I kinda wish that the Mii's were replaced with something that was a bit more in-depth... honestly I think that the Talents from Talent studio could be a better CAF than the Mii's are since they were always way more customizable than the Mii's were...
 

TheLastJinjo

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That wasn't the point though. You said there were driver arts in 2 that changed stats.
This is what I was referring to:
Abilities (for both Pyra and Mythra)
Arts

Blade Arts (Pyra)
Blade Arts (Mythra)
I wasn't saying they have the same arts. I'm just pointing out that there are driver arts that alter stats and so I wouldn't put it past Sakurai to invent some for Rex.

I don't know, I'm really not committed to either position being the most likely outcome. You just can't deny that Shulk and Rex's blades would mostly function similarly in non special attacks at least.
 

Knight Dude

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Speaking of Ganondorf, I'm hoping his alt costumes are a bit more vibrant, he usually only has a couple colors that are easy to tell each apart with. Smash 4 alleviated this problem a bit though.

I also would be pretty hyped up if he got multiple costumes too, but I doubt that as they would've shown that off already.

Also, even though Smash 5 is going through with all the "Every One is Here" thing... I kinda wish that the Mii's were replaced with something that was a bit more in-depth... honestly I think that the Talents from Talent studio could be a better CAF than the Mii's are since they were always way more customizable than the Mii's were...
Mii's are pretty profitable I guess. I never liked them too much myself though, kind of ugly looking.
 

Zerp

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https://youtu.be/OJ6XpUz2RmA
I know this is a bit offtopic now, but I kinda want to say that I really want to see this song in Smash Ultimate... come to think of it the composers of Pokemon Mystery Dungeon did compose the main theme to Smash 5 I think??
I don't think we'll get it because Smash has this strange aversion to spin-offs but I'd love to be wrong, Primal Dialga's theme is definitely among the best Nintendo final boss themes.
 

Blargg888

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What are you talking about? I own the game. I haven't beaten it, but you're just assuming I haven't played the game because of a post I made MONTHS ago?

So, you're pretty much a liar?
1530676252177.png

1530676303618.png

The first post was months ago, sure, but the second was less than two weeks ago.

Furthermore, I had no way of knowing that you owned the game. The fact that you made claims that contradict facts found within the game didn't really clue me in to the fact that you owned it either.

I didn't lie about anything, I just went off the information that I had.
 

Idon

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One pet peeve of mine is that instead of the Monado Arts being giant flashy moves on cooldown, they've been relegated to buffs in Smash. Especially Buster...

Probably the only reason I don't main him even though he's one of my favorite JRPG protags.
 

drag0nscythe

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But it still has to be kept logical. Ganondorf works logically while keeping his personality. This doesn't work for Rex because he really isn't capable of doing any of that, and he requires his Blades to actually do a lot of unique stuff, making him impossible to be an Echo.
Not at the time, it was not. Falcondorf was the pain of many existence during the brawl days. Most just threw a fit that he was a falcon clone. Even with Brawl, it was constantly hated on.

He did an electrical ground pound too. And used his own power to destroy his castle, besides turning into Ganon via the Triforce. He doesn't show a lot of actual magic in OOT, or in general, really(his monster form, Ganon, actually uses more magic overall). He also punches starting in WW. But he was at one point thought of as a guy who would punch if the official artwork for OOT means anything. But yeah, he isn't "just Captain Falcon", he's a character who is easily capable of performing Captain Falcon's moves and happens to have the same build due to the tech demo. Which is also the main reason he got a sword in Ultimate, as he was intended to use the Sword from the Tech Demo anyway. It's funny that his first full use of a weapon is one he doesn't have in canon at all. Only TP Ganondorf via custom moves in Smash 4 ever used a canon weapon for any attack. And well, used it for a taunt too.
I would not consider any games past OoT given he was made in melee before all those games and that his moveset never really changed since then. I think there is a hind site issue though. Most will argue Falcondorf is not representative of Ganondorf. He has grown on people over the years, but that took alot of time.

Granted, there was nothing really to Ganondorf at the time, so anything could fit for him.
 

Mc.Rad

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Also, even though Smash 5 is going through with all the "Every One is Here" thing... I kinda wish that the Mii's were replaced with something that was a bit more in-depth... honestly I think that the Talents from Talent studio could be a better CAF than the Mii's are since they were always way more customizable than the Mii's were...
https://youtu.be/mEVZqmgIsvo
Oh yeah and I kinda want a remix of the BG from one of the Mario Artist games... It's a shame they never took off due to the N64DD, they're actually a super worthy successor to Mario Paint
 

Thirdkoopa

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I can’t really imagine Rex getting in as a Shulk clone. Not only does Rex not share much in terms of arts/attacks with Shulk, but his weapon does not work the same as the Monado.

Ganondorf isn’t really comparable considering he was added because of his similar body type to Falcon.

If Rex was made an echo of Shulk, it wouldn’t be Rex.

Ganondorf is again different in this case. When considering the source material for OoT, Ganondorf is shown to be powerful both physically and mystically. Development time was winding down, there was time to add a few clones, and that’s how we got the physically powerfully mannered Ganondorf.

Really, as somebody who really would like to see Rex, I can say that it really would not make sense for Rex to be an echo. Not only would Pyra NEED to be present for any of his moves to make sense, but he doesn’t have any attacks like Shulk does.
you're gonna hate me for this post, and not that I think rex is gonna be an echo fighter, but, PSA for everyone: don't look into smash this literally lol. it's riddled with game inaccuracies anywhere and everywhere

That said, I doubt we're going to get a Shulk Echo, and Smash is a fanservice game so it's a coinflip on another Xeno character.
 

Hinata

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One pet peeve of mine is that instead of the Monado Arts being giant flashy moves on cooldown, they've been relegated to buffs in Smash. Especially Buster...

Probably the only reason I don't main him even though he's one of my favorite JRPG protags.
God, can you imagine what Shulk would be like if Buster acted like it did in OG Xenoblade?
 

CatRaccoonBL

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This is what I was referring to:

I wasn't saying they have the same arts. I'm just pointing out that there are driver arts that alter stats and so I wouldn't put it past Sakurai to invent some for Rex.

I don't know, I'm really not committed to either position being the most likely outcome. You just can't deny that Shulk and Rex's blades would mostly function similarly in non special attacks at least.
First off, things like "Side attack up" and "back attack up" aren't stat boosters. They pretty much mean when you use that particular art and it connects while in a certain posistion in regards to the enemy, it does more damage.

Blade arts are things that blades will randomly grant. But the thing is they don't alter any of the true stats. At most they boost critical, accuracy or evasion. But they would never increase your defense or attack stat for example. Critical hits and accuracy don't exactly exist in Smash.

God, can you imagine what Shulk would be like if Buster acted like it did in OG Xenoblade?
To be fair, if it did work as it did in OG xenoblade, it would have a looooot of start up time. Unless of course it did a lot of damage to things like shields as well.
 
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