Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[zeldasmash]

Seems weird for Falcon and Fox to assist Snake, and Samus...she could go either way

I would probably picture Snake targeting Palutena for stealing his “stolen gimmick” while Pit is held hostage somewhere, and Sonic is captured due to being Sonic. Mario just tries to fight everybody like he did in Smash 4

In Brawl, Snake was a Falcon fanboy so it would be cool for Snake to have Falcon on his team. Fox being an ally is supposed to be a reference to Gray Fox while Wolf being on the opposing team would be a reference to Sniper Wolf. Samus being on Snake's team would be a reference to Snake's admiration for Samus in Brawl and Link being on his team would be a reference to both of them being Mr. Utility Belt like Otacon puts it.

Mario being on the enemy team references the rivalry Snake and Mario had in Brawl or at least in Snake's trailer. Sonic being on the enemy team is a reference on how Snake doesn't like him and just wants to take him down. Cloud being on the enemy team would be a reference to Metal Gear Solid vs Final Fantasy VII during the Playstation era as well as Playstation mascots fighting each other.

Another character I would add is Corrin as the leader of the enemy team. Cam Clarke...you know where I'm going with this.

 

[GaroMaster]

As somebody who's only Kirby game has been Air Ride, this remix is one of my favorites of Ultimate.
If you're going to remix any other Kirby Air Ride music, remix Checker Knights or at the very least, put the original track back on Halberd.

 

[N3ON]

Still think it would've been better to hold all those mini-trailers until that character's blog update, giving us more consistently engaging updates.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

In Brawl, Snake was a Falcon fanboy so it would be cool for Snake to have Falcon on his team. Fox being an ally is supposed to be a reference to Gray Fox while Wolf being on the opposing team would be a reference to Sniper Wolf. Samus being on Snake's team would be a reference to Snake's admiration for Samus in Brawl and Link being on his team would be a reference to both of them being Mr. Utility Belt like Otacon puts it.

Mario being on the enemy team references the rivalry Snake and Mario had in Brawl or at least in Snake's trailer. Sonic being on the enemy team is a reference on how Snake doesn't like him and just wants to take him down. Cloud being on the enemy team would be a reference to Metal Gear Solid vs Final Fantasy VII during the Playstation era as well as Playstation mascots fighting each other.

Another character I would add is Corrin as the leader of the enemy team. Cam Clarke...you know where I'm going with this.

That’s some deep thinking right there, though the Mario part was more of an honorable battle than a rivalry, and Snake vs Cloud...vs Crash vs Spyro

 

[Deleted member]

Showing respect is fine. People here saying "omg he gave us Ridley and all the veterans cut him some slack" is not respect, it's talking down on others who have legitimate concerns with how business has been conducted with these games.

You are right, actually.

You seem to be a smart guy who knows a lot of stuff.

Uploading a Kirby song, Sakurai?

You don't need to give me more hints, I already know Bandana Dee is playable, but thanks anyways.

Considering Kirby has so much good songs, it deserves more songs.

 

[Zerp]

Still think it would've been better to hold all those mini-trailers until that character's blog update, giving us more consistently engaging updates.

I don't know if it's a good or bad idea but I do know that in the alternate universe where we get these weekly I'm pretty sure I'd have been salty that they K.O.ed Jigglypuff via Marth's shieldbreaker in her own trailer.

 

[Green_Pikmin*]

That Kirby Air Ride Remix holy s*** this is something I didn’t know I needed until now...

 

[Kamikazek]

For the obvious reasons, City trial would make a cool Smash Run map if they had multiple maps.

City Trial, BotW Hyrule castle, New Donk City, Brinstar, Pokémon something or other (victory road?), Underworld, Ashera's Tower ect.. Lots of potential for unique looks, layouts and gimmicks.

Waaay too much work for a side mode though unfortunately.

 

[NeonBurrito]

I'm nitpicking here, but the fact that we got ANOTHER Kirby Air Ride remix before we ever got a full

• Dream Land 2 remix
• Dream Land 3 remix
• Canvas Curse / Rainbow Curse remix
• Epic Yarn remix
• Return to Dreamland remix
• Triple Deluxe remix
• Planet Robobot remix

seems really weird. Like, I love City Trial, its without a doubt the best part of Air Ride, but I can't help but get a "Smash team trying to avoid non-Sakurai Kirby games" sort of feeling. I don't know. I'm a grumpy old man who hates everything, so maybe that's just it.

 

[Chandeelure]

I'm nitpicking here, but the fact that we got ANOTHER Kirby Air Ride remix before we ever got a full

• Dream Land 2 remix
• Dream Land 3 remix
• Canvas Curse / Rainbow Curse remix
• Epic Yarn remix
• Return to Dreamland remix
• Triple Deluxe remix
• Planet Robobot remix

seems really weird. Like, I love City Trial, its without a doubt the best part of Air Ride, but I can't help but get a "Smash team trying to avoid non-Sakurai Kirby games" sort of feeling. I don't know. I'm a grumpy old man who hates everything, so maybe that's just it.

Sakubias confirmed.

First the ballot and now this, he hates the fans.

 

[Jak_spoon]

I'm nitpicking here, but the fact that we got ANOTHER Kirby Air Ride remix before we ever got a full

• Dream Land 2 remix
• Dream Land 3 remix
• Canvas Curse / Rainbow Curse remix
• Epic Yarn remix
• Return to Dreamland remix
• Triple Deluxe remix
• Planet Robobot remix

seems really weird. Like, I love City Trial, its without a doubt the best part of Air Ride, but I can't help but get a "Smash team trying to avoid non-Sakurai Kirby games" sort of feeling. I don't know. I'm a grumpy old man who hates everything, so maybe that's just it.

Haha and people still think we’re getting Bandanna Dee.

 

[Billybae10K]

We've gotten two fighters this week, right? If so:

• Fighters are being revealed at a pace of about 12 per month.
• So far, 11 have been covered (55 fighters remaining)
• 5 months from now is conveniently December, which means that we're looking at anywhere from 61 - 64 more characters being covered (61 if we count 10 remaining in July, 12 for August - November, and 3 from the first week of December, and 64 if we add the second week of December when the game releases).
• Which means that we'll be seeing 6 - 9 more newcomers assuming that this pattern continues and all characters are revealed before release. We may see more than this if the pattern continues but not all characters are revealed.

Of course, this is assuming that the pattern continues, which it likely won't. Also, they say that when you assume you make an *** out of you and me, so watch me be wrong.

That's pretty much my line of thought. I noticed the three fighters thing at the end of the second week, but wanted to see if it followed suit last week before really committing to it. Assuming we get newcomer reveals sprinkled across our time towards release, it does make sense that some of the weeks could have a newcomer post, replacing what would normally be a veteran post.

I know looking at patterns hasn't worked well in the past for Smash speculation, but this Blog seems much more formulaic than the past Dojo/Pic of the Days. It's got a clear structure and given the short period between now and launch, it makes sense to structure the reveals since they only have so much time to showcase what needs to be shown.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Got a lot of requests to look into the claims that Bayo's parameters were copied from ZSS in 1.0.6 (two weeks after the ballot). I can confirm that they were. 3 people looked into it.
Enjoy.

The extra confirmation so people can't just say it was madeup is nice. Something I want to point out though is that Bayo being chosen and having development started within 2 weeks of the Ballot from very initial results is nonsensical, due to the combination of the time the character selection process, licensing, and initial development takes, combined with the fact that patches are finalized well before they actually go online (with version 1.0.6 probably being finalized before the Ballot launched). As such, the data points to that Bayonetta was planned and her development started before the Ballot, rather than Sakurai rushing to choose her and starting development within 2 weeks of the Ballot launching.

 

[lordvaati]

Got a lot of requests to look into the claims that Bayo's parameters were copied from ZSS in 1.0.6 (two weeks after the ballot). I can confirm that they were. 3 people looked into it.
Enjoy.

I was afriad of that scenario. Thanks as always SG.
I hope people don't repeat that Twitter bombing bull**** from last week over it.

 

[Blargg888]

I'm nitpicking here, but the fact that we got ANOTHER Kirby Air Ride remix before we ever got a full

• Dream Land 2 remix
• Dream Land 3 remix
• Canvas Curse / Rainbow Curse remix
• Epic Yarn remix
• Return to Dreamland remix
• Triple Deluxe remix
• Planet Robobot remix

seems really weird. Like, I love City Trial, its without a doubt the best part of Air Ride, but I can't help but get a "Smash team trying to avoid non-Sakurai Kirby games" sort of feeling. I don't know. I'm a grumpy old man who hates everything, so maybe that's just it.

Well it's not like we get the Air Ride remixes often. There's only one other Air Ride Remix in Smash Bros.: The Brawl remix of The Legendary Air Ride Machine. This means that the last time we got an Air Ride remix was 10 years ago. A.K.A. Before half of those games even existed.

 

[Zerp]

Haha and people still think we’re getting Bandanna Dee.

I'm not expecting him to get in but I'm still going to be heartbroken when we get that deeconfirmation.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I've gotta say, I loved the character posters that came with Sm4sh newcomers. Bring on Ridley's!

I do hope that we get the awesome trailers and posters for all of the newcomers.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

For the obvious reasons, City trial would make a cool Smash Run map if they had multiple maps.

City Trial, BotW Hyrule castle, New Donk City, Brinstar, Pokémon something or other (victory road?), Underworld, Ashera's Tower ect.. Lots of potential for unique looks, layouts and gimmicks.

Waaay too much work for a side mode though unfortunately.

New Port City, Temple, a FE dungeon and Palutena’s Temple aswell

 

[Idon]

What did you expect him to do (as I know nothing of him)

Make some of his sick-ass art, what else?

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

We've gotten two fighters this week, right? If so:

• Fighters are being revealed at a pace of about 12 per month.
• So far, 11 have been covered (55 fighters remaining)
• 5 months from now is conveniently December, which means that we're looking at anywhere from 61 - 64 more characters being covered (61 if we count 10 remaining in July, 12 for August - November, and 3 from the first week of December, and 64 if we add the second week of December when the game releases).
• Which means that we'll be seeing 6 - 9 more newcomers assuming that this pattern continues and all characters are revealed before release. We may see more than this if the pattern continues but not all characters are revealed.

Of course, this is assuming that the pattern continues, which it likely won't. Also, they say that when you assume you make an *** out of you and me, so watch me be wrong.

Ok I just did the math on this and I don't follow.
So I counted weeks because that's more accurate and including the week of E3 to the week of release that's 26 weeks, 3 each is 78 fighter updates.
Echoes get their own videos, Pokemon Trainer share one and miis share one.

That's 64 character videos for the characters we know. 78-64 = 14...14 more newcomers. That's a lot in my opinion. So yea I don't think that pattern will stick lol.

Check my math if I'm wrong, I'm double checking and will edit if I am.

Edit 1: I think your math is off because a month isn't always 4 weeks, like August is 5 this year.

 

[UltimateWario]

Maybe Ridley's poster will feature some other newcomers we don't have yet.

Not gonna lie, I'd cream a little if Ridley and K. Rool had a poster together.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Make some of his sick-*** art, what else?

That is some sexy art

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Ok I just did the math on this and I don't follow.
So I counted weeks because that's more accurate and including the week of E3 to the week of release that's 26 weeks, 3 each is 78 fighter updates.
Echoes get their own videos, Pokemon Trainer share one and miis share one.

That's 64 character videos for the characters we know. 78-64 = 14...14 more newcomers. That's a lot in my opinion. So yea I don't think that pattern will stick lol.

Check my math if I'm wrong, I'm double checking and will edit if I am.

Edit 1: I think your math is off because a month isn't always 4 weeks, like August is 5 this year.

14 is the same amount of newcomers in Melee. With Echoes being a thing I don't think 14 newcomers is unreasonable.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

14 is the same amount of newcomers in Melee. With Echoes being a thing I don't think 14 newcomers is unreasonable.

14 more.

17 total. Too many in my opinion with all the veterans added. I'd love it though!

 

[Takasmash]

I dont think Kirby need more reps I think all the main cast is there.

 

[Impa4Smash]

There’s 66 fighters now. I think they’ll add 10 more. That way they can say “over 75 fighters” in advertising. Sounds sexy

 

[lordvaati]

At most we will get maybe 8-10 newcomers I think, including echoes.
Not only because of Sakurai saying not to expect too many due to time on getting newcomers, but also because being honest we have nearly plateaued on getting almost every major character left in the last 19 years.

I mean DLC will always leave open new possibilities, but even expecting a double digit of newcomers before December just seems very iffy.

 

[Opossum]

I dont think Kirby need more reps I think all the main cast is there.

I'd argue at this point that Bandana Waddle Dee is one of the main cast members. Ever since RtDL they've been viewed as a quartet.

 

[Takasmash]

I think they’ll add 10 more.

I could see that potentially my guess is 12 newcomers seems a stretch.

 

[UltimateWario]

14 more.

17 total. Too many in my opinion with all the veterans added. I'd love it though!

How many reasonable echoes are there? We could see a bunch of those. I definitely think people either expect too many newcomers or expect too few, but I think between 10 and 20 with a lot of them being echoes is a safe bet.

Fire Emblem has a lot of potential echoes. Hell, they had a whole warriors game full of Echoes!
They could probably get some echoes out of F-Zero.
Kirby has like ten zillion Meta Knight lookalikes, one of those could be an Echo.
I'd imagine they'll either go crazy with echoes or we'll only get one or two, but I wouldn't be surprised if we get more Echoes than "true" newcomers this time.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

How many reasonable echoes are there? We could see a bunch of those. I definitely think people either expect too many newcomers or expect too few, but I think between 10 and 20 with a lot of them being echoes is a safe bet.

Fire Emblem has a lot of potential echoes. Hell, they had a whole warriors game full of Echoes!
They could probably get some echoes out of F-Zero.
Kirby has like ten zillion Meta Knight lookalikes, one of those could be an Echo.
I'd imagine they'll either go crazy with echoes or we'll only get one or two, but I wouldn't be surprised if we get more Echoes than "true" newcomers this time.

Well...we don't know yet but I've been speculating echoes will be popular characters or characters that are important and can be made echoes easily. So will we get Dark Metaknight? Probably not. But Impa, Chrom, Dark Samus and Isabelle all seem good popular picks.

But I won't know if thats the right way to think until we see another echo...if there's another echo :/

 

[UltimateWario]

Well...we don't know yet but I've been speculating echoes will be popular characters or characters that are important and can be made echoes easily. So will we get Dark Metaknight? Probably not. But Impa, Chrom, Dark Samus and Isabelle all seem good popular picks.

But I won't know if thats the right way to think until we see another echo...if there's another echo :/

It's just hard to imagine Sakurai inventing this term to justify effortless clones and then not doing anything with it. I'm not going to be hurt if there aren't any more (Ridley and K. Rool are all I need and K. Rool is for my boys), but I'd be surprised.

 

[Wyoming]

Whoa Sakurai, that City Trial remix is illegal to release without consent.

 

[Blargg888]

Well...we don't know yet but I've been speculating echoes will be popular characters or characters that are important and can be made echoes easily. So will we get Dark Metaknight? Probably not. But Impa, Chrom, Dark Samus and Isabelle all seem good popular picks.

But I won't know if thats the right way to think until we see another echo...if there's another echo :/

I kind of want there to be one more Echo for the sole purpose of making my "A Forceful Echo" battle into a 4v4.

+1 vs +1

 

[Takasmash]

I'd argue at this point that Bandana Waddle Dee is one of the main cast members. Ever since RtDL they've been viewed as a quartet.

Well how come Sakurai dont treat Bandana Dee character in his game. Besides Sakurai dont reference the modern Kirby games expect for trophy's or music and Dee did play big role in returns dreamland so how come in smash 4 we didn't get a Returns Dreamland stage. We're not sure if he hates the modern Kirby games or license issues. Do you get mine point.

 

[Blargg888]

Well how come Sakurai dont treat Bandana Dee character in his game. Besides Sakurai dont reference the modern Kirby games expect for trophy's or music and Dee did play big role in returns dreamland so how come in smash 4 we didn't get a Returns Dreamland stage. We're not sure if he hates the modern Kirby games or license issues. Do you get mine point.

Not really, because this post doesn't really have anything to do with the post that Opo replied to.

In your initial post, you said that you thought we didn't need anymore Kirby characters because we already have all the main characters, but now you're trying to make a completely different point.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I dont think Kirby need more reps I think all the main cast is there.

I'd argue at this point that Bandana Waddle Dee is one of the main cast members. Ever since RtDL they've been viewed as a quartet.

Well how come Sakurai dont treat Bandana Dee character in his game. Besides Sakurai dont reference the modern Kirby games expect for trophy's or music and Dee did play big role in returns dreamland so how come in smash 4 we didn't get a Returns Dreamland stage. We're not sure if he hates the modern Kirby games or license issues. Do you get mine point.

Sakurai doesn't like the sequelization of the game industry, and the production of Air Ride ran into problems, so he only has attachment for the works he did (although he probably doesn't mess with anyone else's Kirby stuff out of respect. Also, Takasmash, your posts contradict themselves.

Besides, in terms of series Sakurai's been on, Kid Icarus still needs a villain or two before it's all set.

How many reasonable echoes are there? We could see a bunch of those. I definitely think people either expect too many newcomers or expect too few, but I think between 10 and 20 with a lot of them being echoes is a safe bet.

Fire Emblem has a lot of potential echoes. Hell, they had a whole warriors game full of Echoes!
They could probably get some echoes out of F-Zero.
Kirby has like ten zillion Meta Knight lookalikes, one of those could be an Echo.
I'd imagine they'll either go crazy with echoes or we'll only get one or two, but I wouldn't be surprised if we get more Echoes than "true" newcomers this time.

I wouldn't hold my breath on more F-Zero representation just yet, but those are reasonable assumptions otherwise.

 

[Idon]

Not really, because this post doesn't really have anything to do with the post that Opo replied to.

In your initial post, you said that you thought we didn't need anymore Kirby characters because we already have all the main characters, but now you're trying to make a completely different point.

They can't prove you wrong if you change your argument

 

[drag0nscythe]

7 more. We are looking at 3 original and 4 echo maybe. The roster looks to neat with that number.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

At most we will get maybe 8-10 newcomers I think, including echoes.
Not only because of Sakurai saying not to expect too many due to time on getting newcomers, but also because being honest we have nearly plateaued on getting almost every major character left in the last 19 years.

I mean DLC will always leave open new possibilities, but even expecting a double digit of newcomers before December just seems very iffy.

I agree with all of this, but I'm gonna take a shot at what I believe would be the minimum outcome. Six Newcomers + 4 Echo Fighters. Leaving us with a total of 75 fighters.

• Inkling
• Ridley
• King K. Rool
• Mimikyu
• Excitebike
• Simon
• Daisy ε
• Impa ε
• Octoling ε
• Rex ε

*I acknowledge Rex is shorter than Shulk, but both use a blade and stat changing arts to fight. We could possibly see Rex as the in between out of the originals and echoes. What most would refer to as a "semi-clone".