Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Camera perspective.

Even so, he was easily still smaller(not by a severe degree), but also had workable proportions compared to some of the other ones. Which is more what I was thinking about, although I clearly put that down poorly. My bad.

 

[Deleted member]

Even so, he was easily still smaller(not by a severe degree), but also had workable proportions compared to some of the other ones. Which is more what I was thinking about, although I clearly put that down poorly. My bad.

He was roughly the same size as Brawl (in-game, not cutscene; he was bigger in the cutscene).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

He was roughly the same size as Brawl (in-game, not cutscene; he was bigger in the cutscene).

I wasn't talking about size. I was talking about proportions. Was he the same in the cutscene during Melee's intro as Ridley in Brawl? Same proportions? If so, bleh, I didn't look at the opening clearly enough. Welp.

 

[Deleted member]

I wasn't talking about size. I was talking about proportions. Was he the same in the cutscene during Melee's intro as Ridley in Brawl? Same proportions? If so, bleh, I didn't look at the opening clearly enough. Welp.

They literally use the same design; the Super Metroid artwork design (just purple instead of red).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

They literally use the same design; the Super Metroid artwork design (just purple instead of red).

Well then. Dang.

 

[Luminario]

...Besides the fact that they were the de facto mascot of the first internationally released Rhythm Heaven game, you mean.

@GoldenYuiitusin is right so I'm bringing this over here.
Did they do anything else besides appear in their own minigame and on the box? Let's not kid ourselves, the Chorus Kids owe so much to the Gematsu leak. I picked the Tap Trial Girl because the wiki says she's the mascot of the series and the general girl design appears in like 10 different minigames across the entire series. They had to have like 4 different Badge Arcade games dedicated to the different designs of the Rhythm girls, they're that prominent in the series. Marshal is a good choice because he's prominent in Rhythm Heaven Fever and does the tutorial.

 

[Opossum]

@GoldenYuiitusin is right so I'm bringing this over here.
Did they do anything else besides appear in their own minigame and on the box? Let's not kid ourselves, the Chorus Kids owe so much to the Gematsu leak. I picked the Tap Trial Girl because the wiki says she's the mascot of the series and the general girl design appears in like 10 different minigames across the entire series. They had to have like 4 different Badge Arcade games dedicated to the different designs of the Rhythm girls, they're that prominent in the series. Marshal is a good choice because he's prominent in Rhythm Heaven Fever and does the tutorial.

The Chorus Kids were used heavily in the promotion of the DS title. Gematsu may have put them on the map for most people, but they're not without merit otherwise.

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

Of these "Big 3" characters, (Ridley, King K. Rool and Isaac), I do think that since Smash for 3DS and Wii U has come and gone, their fanbases and popularity has undergone a decline. However, while K. Rool and Isaac haven't been seen in ages in a game for their series,

Spoiler

Ridley is the only one who's reappeared since Smash 4 since he's the Final Boss of Samus Returns. Whether or not Samus Returns will factor into Ridley getting a second chance again or not, Ridley will probably still retain his infamy amongst the fanbase.

Regardless, my stances on them:
Isaac - Definitely one of my most wanted since he could bring something new to Smash with either Earth manipulation or various Psynergies like Move. I think the only thing against him is how he hasn't been seen since Dark Dawn in 2010, and how Isaac was bizarrely removed as an Assist Trophy, probably because Golden Sun didn't have a foreseeable future.

King K. Rool - He wouldn't be a character I'd object to, but he dropped from being my Number 1 most wanted. I still want him to see what he could do in Smash and seeing some more Donkey Kong characters. What he probably would need outside of popularity is a game where he returns to Donkey Kong Country, either as the Big Bad or pulling an Enemy Mine situation.

Ridley - Like K. Rool, he slowly dropped from my most wanted list, but he's still a character I want to see in Smash one day as a playable character.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

The Chorus Kids were used heavily in the promotion of the DS title. Gematsu may have put them on the map for most people, but they're not without merit otherwise.

And don't forget how lots of minigames take the Chorus Kids' design of "Three identical beings with the last one being controlled by you".
It'd make for a much easier implememtation of the rhythm mechanic and allows for more moves that aren't cheap summonings of other Rhythm Heaven characters

 

[Deleted member]

I don't care which RH character we get, as long as it's not Karate Joe.
Karate Joe using moves that reference other minigames would look odd since he's a martial artist, while punching and kicking with rhythm would just be visually boring.

 

[Luminario]

And don't forget how lots of minigames take the Chorus Kids' design of "Three identical beings with the last one being controlled by you".
It'd make for a much easier implememtation of the rhythm mechanic and allows for more moves that aren't cheap summonings of other Rhythm Heaven characters

What's wrong with the cheap summoning characters? They've always got the flashiest movesets and great potential.
Also, question: If the trio mechanic is what you're looking for, why not go with Marshal, Ribbon, and Cam? They've got the trio thing down pretty well, they're the mascots of the more recent Rhythm Heaven Fever, and they each bring their own unique personality that simply expands their potential.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

What's wrong with the cheap summoning characters? They've always got the flashiest movesets and great potential.
Also, question: If the trio mechanic is what you're looking for, why not go with Marshal, Ribbon, and Cam? They've got the trio thing down pretty well, they're the mascots of the more recent Rhythm Heaven Fever, and they each bring their own unique personality that simply expands their potential.

Ya I don't care but Rhythm Heaven has quite a few minigames where you follow the lead of two identical predecessors so Chorus Kids fit that tradition quite well.
And I don't mimd summoning, but having a moveset be all summoning takes away from the character itself and generally doesn't make a cohesive moveset with a clear playstyle.

Literally anyone from the series can be like Tap Girl and summon quirky characters to be unique for her but only a few characters can be a more solid representation for Rhythm Heaven's minigames and whether that's Wrestler and Reporter, Chorus Kids or Marshal with Ribbon and Cam tagging along doesn't matter to me.

 

[N3ON]

There are like a half dozen Rhythm Heaven characters that could get chosen and still make reasonable sense, because it's not a character-driven series.

 

[UserKev]

Oh, yeah, about Ridley and K. Rool.
I still have hope for them, even Ridley, because I'm biased and I believe in miracles.

Just, supporting Ridley feels like the energy is being drained from my body. I rather wait and see what happens now. Also, I feel like his Other M easier to work with design was his only ticket in. Ain't losing my soul to that thread.

f Ridley.

 

[Diddy Kong]

The "Big" Three...

King K.Rool: Only the ballot results can help him. He's got popularity, and at SOME point they are going to have to stop adding 75% newcomers as characters who are lighter than Mario. Seriously, there's a real lack of new heavy weight fighters, Smash 4 had zero heavy weight newcomers for example. And I think that's bad balance.

Isaac: I wish he was likely. I wish Golden Sun wasn't a dead and mostly forgotten franchise. I wish he could've made it during Brawl... It's been a very dissapointing ride so far supporting both Isaac and King K.Rool.

Ridley: Literally too big.

 

[Opossum]

The "Big" Three...

King K.Rool: Only the ballot results can help him. He's got popularity, and at SOME point they are going to have to stop adding 75% newcomers as characters who are lighter than Mario. Seriously, there's a real lack of new heavy weight fighters, Smash 4 had zero heavy weight newcomers for example. And I think that's bad balance.

Isaac: I wish he was likely. I wish Golden Sun wasn't a dead and mostly forgotten franchise. I wish he could've made it during Brawl... It's been a very dissapointing ride so far supporting both Isaac and King K.Rool.

Ridley: Literally too big.

Isn't Bowser Jr. basically a heavyweight? Well, mostly, anyway. His whole shtick is that he takes more knockback and stuff depending on where he's hit, with the Jr. Klown Kar providing a huge amount of weight.

 

[Deleted member]

I think before complaining that Smash doesn't have enough heavyweights and should go out of the way to add more, we should make sure the ones we currently have aren't competitively mediocre to bad. :V

 

[FantasticMr.StarPit]

As for Doomguy, I've been supporting him since before Doom came to Switch. Even if you take out the visceral elements of his Glory Kills and don't let him use shotguns (or alter them to make them less realistic), he still seems like he'd be a lot of fun. I feel like Cyberdemon would be a better fit for an assist trophy than Olivia Pierce, though.

I believe Cyberdemon would fit perfectly as a boss character if there's Boss Rush mode or I dunno, an actual story mode(like Subspace Emissary) for Smash Switch.

Speaking of a Boss Rush mode since we never got one for Smash Wii U/3DS, I was thinking about some ideal characters for a new Boss Rush mode that I would love to see(Yes, a few will return):

Peter Piranha from Super Mario Bros
Great Reaper from Kid Icarus: Uprising
Porky from Earthbound
A Guardian from Zelda: BOTW
Ridley from Metroid(I know people will say "Oh but Ridley deserves to be a fighter", but we don't know yet.)
Kraid from Metroid
Mecha-Bowser from Super Mario Sunshine
Andross from Star Fox
Metal Head from Xenoblade Chronicles
Chaos Kin from Kid Icarus: Uprising
Cyberdemon from Doom (OBVIOUSLY!)
Dark Matter from the Kirby series
Hades from Kid Icarus: Uprising
Master Hand and Crazy Hand(No duh.)
A new baddie for the next Smash game. Like Master Core from Smash Wii U/3DS

I couldn't think of a Pokemon that would fit as a boss.
Anyways, that's those characters I like to keep an eye on for the new Boss Rush if it comes back.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

It was always strange to me that Snake was a heavyweight. I mean I guess it makes sense with his gear and he's not a super heavyweight like Bowser or DK but still it always felt strange to me that he was. Point is we even lost a heavyweight with Snake and he was an actually viable heavyweight. That is a damn shame.

 

[Deleted member]

I couldn't think of a Pokemon that would fit as a boss.

Personally, I think Necrozma would be the best choice for a boss, since he's the main antagonist in the story of Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon.
I mean, it literally steals light from entire worlds - it's not like Giratina in Platinum who just wanted to set things right and accidently sucked the lake trio into the Distortion World, or Kyurem who was controlled by Ghetsis. It's actually evil by choice (Or at least so it seems).

 

[N3ON]

I couldn't think of a Pokemon that would fit as a boss.

Literally just pick any malicious legendary.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

Pokemon Boss: Giovanni!

But of course, it would probably be one of Rayquaza, Deyoxs, Darkrai, Yvetal, etc.

 

[Opossum]

Pokémon bosses? Guzzlord is my pick.

- Sufficiently massive
- Ultra Beasts are being pushed pretty hard
- Its gaping maw, massive tail, and multiple pincers could lead to lots of neat attacks
- It's one of the few Pokémon to have canonically killed someone in-universe, so it's sufficiently malicious

 

[Diddy Kong]

Isn't Bowser Jr. basically a heavyweight? Well, mostly, anyway. His whole shtick is that he takes more knockback and stuff depending on where he's hit, with the Jr. Klown Kar providing a huge amount of weight.

Almost forgot. But yeah, he counts. Just think that having only one new heavy weight per game isn't really great design and balance choice.

I think before complaining that Smash doesn't have enough heavyweights and should go out of the way to add more, we should make sure the ones we currently have aren't competitively mediocre to bad. :V

They fixed DK and Bowser. They never where so good. It's only King Dedede and Charizard that suck. But they have dubious character design anyway, and need a moveset overhaul if only to properly represent the characters.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

They fixed DK and Bowser. They never where so good. It's only King Dedede and Charizard that suck. But they have dubious character design anyway, and need a moveset overhaul if only to properly represent the characters.

Charizard's being debated as he's gotten quite a few buffs, from what I can tell, he's considered to be around midtier by many. Sure, he has flaws, but he still has strengths. You're right on Dedede, however, Sakurai intentionally nerfed Dedede iirc. Not only is the game balanced around free for alls, but Dedede also had the infamous chaingrab in Brawl

 

[Deleted member]

I feel like Cyberdemon would be a better fit for an assist trophy than Olivia Pierce, though.

I believe Cyberdemon would fit perfectly as a boss character if there's Boss Rush mode or I dunno, an actual story mode(like Subspace Emissary) for Smash Switch.

I can't be the only one who read that as "Cyberdramon", right...?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Charizard's being debated as he's gotten quite a few buffs, from what I can tell, he's considered to be around midtier by many. Sure, he has flaws, but he still has strengths. You're right on Dedede, however, Sakurai intentionally nerfed Dedede iirc. Not only is the game balanced around free for alls, but Dedede also had the infamous chaingrab in Brawl

If he just had the Dragon Rush as standard Side B, Zard would actually be good. And fun.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If he just had the Dragon Rush as standard Side B, Zard would actually be good. And fun.

While that move helps him out, it's not like he doesn't have other strengths. Also if you aren't having fun with a character then it's not the character for you, which is perfectly fine. You've got like 57 other characters to pick from already.

 

[Diddy Kong]

While that move helps him out, it's not like he doesn't have other strengths. Also if you aren't having fun with a character then it's not the character for you, which is perfectly fine. You've got like 57 other characters to pick from already.

Charizard is fun plenty but Dragon Rush is just a real fun move. He doesn't exactly have lots of strengths, and wish he was far more aerial based. Hope they can make gliding return, that would be a nice gimmick.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Well, **** I really want Doom Slayer in the next Smash now. Thanks a lot ya assholes.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Charizard is fun plenty but Dragon Rush is just a real fun move. He doesn't exactly have lots of strengths, and wish he was far more aerial based. Hope they can make gliding return, that would be a nice gimmick.

Swamp Sensei you're a bigger expert on this than anyone I know, care to talk about this?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Swamp Sensei you're a bigger expert on this than anyone I know, care to talk about this?

Also include a projectile and replace that with his current Down B, Rock Smash.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Also include a projectile and replace that with his current Down B, Rock Smash.

1: Flame Thrower IS a projectile
2: Rock Smash is very fun to use against scrubs I find

 

[FantasticMr.StarPit]

Well, **** I really want Doom Slayer in the next Smash now. Thanks a lot ya ********.

HELL YEAH! Rip & Tear!! "fist pump" "Balalala"

EDIT (11/8/17): The fist pump could be either his taunt or his victory.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

If he just had the Dragon Rush as standard Side B, Zard would actually be good. And fun.

Charizard is fun plenty but Dragon Rush is just a real fun move.

I prefer the utility of Flare Blitz more. It also works with Charizard's design more. A fast but hard hitting heavy with some super armor trump cards.

Besides, as someone who mains Charizard, Dragon Rush isn't very good against someone with a brain. You can use Flare Blitz more effectively in more situations anyways.

Netting the kill and regaining stage control > A multihit move that does decent damage

. He doesn't exactly have lots of strengths,

He's high low, low mid tier actually. Charizard is fine.

Hope they can make gliding return, that would be a nice gimmick.

No.

Never again.

Also include a projectile and replace that with his current Down B, Rock Smash.

That gets rid of his entire design. Rock Smash is insanely useful as a move and besides.

1: Flame Thrower IS a projectile

Flame Thrower is downright amazing man.


Zard's current iteration is a solid design. No overhauls are needed. Just fine tuning.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I never said get rid of Flame Thrower. Hell, it should be made stronger and you should be able to use it midair.

I rather have them get rid of Rock Smash.

And Zard could profit a lot from Brawl MK shenanigans. He's got so bad IVs in Smash 4.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

you should be able to use it midair.

You already can.

It's one of Zard's best approaches.

Flamethrower is already pretty great. Doesn't need a buff.

I rather have them get rid of Rock Smash.

I'm still gonna say naw just because its a great move but eh opinions.

And Zard could profit a lot from Brawl MK shenanigans. He's got so bad IVs in Smash 4.

Brawl MK shenanigans should not be something to take inspiration from.

And as said above.

Smash 4 Zard is fine.

He's not a bad heavy like Dedede or Ganondorf.

 

[Mr. Insecto Sheep]

what do u think would be the most out there choice for a newcomer in smash swich or smash 5 (although keep it in the realm of possibility)

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I never said get rid of Flame Thrower. Hell, it should be made stronger and you should be able to use it midair.

I rather have them get rid of Rock Smash.

And Zard could profit a lot from Brawl MK shenanigans. He's got so bad IVs in Smash 4.

Flamethrower CAN be used in midair. It's just the exact opposite of what it's supposed to used for, as when used correctly it gimps enemies at low percentages

Nobody should have Brawl MK shenanigans. And again, he's fine. He's got decent IVs

 

[Swamp Sensei]

t's just the exact opposite of what it's supposed to used for, as when used correctly it gimps enemies at low percentages

It's one of Zard's best approaches.

Midair Flamethrower is actually pretty great Gwen.

Flamethrower can net a lot of easy damage and has a big hitbox.