Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Impa4Smash]

Besides Chrom and Celica, Tiki and Anna could both have very unique move sets. They'd both play very differently than any sword user. Which I feel hurts the representation in the series - everyone but Robin is a sword wielder (and he/she even uses the levin sword)

 

[Opossum]

Well I mean that's great for you but on a generalist level, taking into account all the kids, casuals and everyone in between when it comes to the Smash Bros fanbase, Fire Emblem appeals to only a small niche in a much larger pie. More people from all levels of fandom would get more excited over someone like Midna, Decidueye, Dixie Kong or Shadow than someone like Ceclia.
Even with the nearly two decades of Fire Emblem using Smash as a promotion vehicle, FE has yet to break out of it's status as a niche franchise. FE was selling so poorly in the late 2000's that it was going to get canceled if Awakening didn't sell, but then FE:A acts like a shot in the arm to the franchise and suddenly it's popular! But even it's best selling title, FE Fates caps out at around 2M sales on the 3DS, while Splatoon sold nearly 6M on the Wii U, a console with waaayy fewer owners than the 3DS.

I think that's what really gets me about the amount of FE in Smash, FE isn't as popular as AC, or Kirby or Metroid or Star Fox, yet has way more characters than any of them and people are somehow asking for more. It baffles me. If a character should get in Smash just because their game recently came out then I want Marina, Agent 4, DJ Octavio annnnnd Judd as fighters.

Yeah but none of that matters to me. I don't take other people's disappointment into consideration when deciding whether I want something.

 

[lordvaati]

still dont get the fascination with designing a reboot when we have a new game coming. sakurai may leave but smash will continue. also even in competitive fighting games these reboots are HUGE hit and misses. soulcalibur 5 and marvel infinite busts. killer instinct reboot good. soulcalibur reboot to original? good imo. if nintendo wants to make a new more competitive mechanics based game like smash they'd be better off making a subseries. mkaes no sense to bother a series that prints money. rebooting smash seems like the least viable option. nintendo can never sell people on a smash game with less than 50 to 60 characters ever again.

Thing is though that Nintendo tends to have a very good track record with rebooting series though. Metroid Prime and Donkey Kong Country were both notable hits and Kid Icarus Uprising a solid following. The only major stumble in that regard was Star Fox Adventures.


As for the Fire Emblem talk, one thing that bummed me is the lack of the Rock/Paper/Scissors system of the games. Pokemon trainer is a walking example of that here, but FE has yet to reflect the same. Ideally they could have had Marth with a sword, Ike(probably young one) with an axe and Lucina with a Lance(which seems to have become her main weapon in stuff like Project x Zone and FEH.) A majority of the frustration comss from this stigma people have that all the FE crew just uses swords which makes it seem kind of repetitive from a surface view. It's quite similar to the similar complaints about Shotokan fighters in the SF series.

If we had to get one more character though, Anna seems the best choice since she's been in practically every game(FF Cid logic kinda, but still.)

 

[Will]

I'm pretty sure most lords can use multiple weapons.

Ah **** that's actually a really good point. The only real classes that haven't shown yet are Axe/Hammer wielders, the archers, and all the different types of mounts. Could be forgetting a few easily, but whatever.

Besides Chrom and Celica, Tiki and Anna could both have very unique move sets. They'd both play very differently than any sword user. Which I feel hurts the representation in the series - everyone but Robin is a sword wielder (and he/she even uses the levin sword)

When your own series' icon is a sword instead of the object your series is named after you know there's a sword addiction going on

 

[Idon]

Thing is though that Nintendo tends to have a very good track record with rebooting series though. Metroid Prime and Donkey Kong Country were both notable hits and Kid Icarus Uprising a solid following. The only major stumble in that regard was Star Fox Adventures.


As for the Fire Emblem talk, one thing that bummed me is the lack of the Rock/Paper/Scissors system of the games. Pokemon trainer is a walking example of that here, but FE has yet to reflect the same. Ideally they could have had Marth with a sword, Ike(probably young one) with an axe and Lucina with a Lance(which seems to have become her main weapon in stuff like Project x Zone and FEH.) A majority of the frustration comss from this stigma people have that all the FE crew just uses swords which makes it seem kind of repetitive from a surface view. It's quite similar to the similar complaints about Shotokan fighters in the SF series.

I'd rather characters not use their iconic weapon in order to fulfill this arbitrary weapon triangle quota. Seriously, it's almost as bad as wanting a Pokemon to fill out the Fire, Water, Grass, starter quota.

If you're going to want a character based on their weapon, instead of breaking from canon, just use an axe lord like Hector or a lance lord like (ugh) Ephraim.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Yeah but none of that matters to me. I don't take other people's disappointment into consideration when deciding whether I want something.

there's one different angle i think that can be had here, which I think Brawl and Melee did very well: what about Smash supporting more franchises and stuff that's not already popular?

Mother and Fire Emblem, among other franchises, got a BIG boost from Smash. I think if they play their cards right, they can do a lot more of that.

 

[Slavic]

I mean SoV alone has Ram Village, Fear Mountain, Nuibaba's Abode, the Sluice Gate, Zofia Castle, and Rigel Castle on Alm's side, and Novis Seaway, Grieth's Citadel, the Temple of Mila, the Swamps of Duma, and Duma Tower on Celica's side, with the Altar of Duma on both. And that's just from one game.

Khadein, the Macedonian Aerie, Nifl, Grima, and the Tower of Valni could also be really neat IMO.

Grima always had and always will have my support for a stage but, alas, I think that ship has sailed. To throw some more on the fire, the Dragon's Gate from the end of FE7 would be an intense place to fight, some sort of representation of Anna's Secret Shop would be fun, My Castle (the whatever-realms for a better name) from Fates could be fun and dynamic, the Bottomless Canyon or especially the Opera House from Fates would also be great fighting locations. While not a specific iconic location, one of the ship battles that are always present would be a fun place to fight. If you go into every game you can find specific locations, but I think many aren't as important or iconic, so I tried to just pick locations off the top of my head.

 

[Makai Wars]

okay so you mentioned Kirby and my immediate response is "we should get Daroach, Magolor, and Marx"

Yeah see, that's what I'm saying, we have way more options than just retreading the same series over and over. After seeing him in Star Allies I'm a big supporter of Marx too. It might be a bit too late for him to get in the base roster but I hope he's a DLC contender.

Mother and Fire Emblem, among other franchises, got a BIG boost from Smash. I think if they play their cards right, they can do a lot more of that.

The entire reason Corrin got in Smash was for promotion, I'm not sure how well it worked though.

EDIT: That being said, I think when it comes to choosing a newcomer, a character who is popular and unique should be chosen over a character who's only purpose is to promote their next game, I'd be disappointed if we got a Gen 8 Pokemon over a Gen 7 one for example.

 

[Will]

If you're going to want a character based on their weapon, instead of breaking from canon, just use an axe lord like Hector or a lance lord like (ugh) Ephraim.

I know a couple of Calvaliers that would like to kick your ass and be snarky as hell about it.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

No, the PNG images above it. Oddly enough the gif image (Yoshi salivating) was completely fine.

Aww man. I wanted my support banners back. Damn it.

Well, thanks anyway. I know you like Yoshi, so here’s what I hope his Final Smash has been changed to:

 

[Will]

The entire reason Corrin got in Smash was for promotion, I'm not sure how well it worked though.

Roy's promotion worked because no westerners have heard of Fire Emblem and his interest got Fire Emblem to release globally (except for his own game). I imagine the promotion worked well in the East, too. Fire Emblem was still a bit niche at the time, and Roy's game had yet to be released, got its good share of representation.

Corrin's promotion was for a game that had already come out for a few months, and Fire Emblem already had five characters in Smash 4. People were saying "Okay Sakurai you can stop with the anime now" because frankly for a smaller series 5 is pushing it when Brawl only had Marth and Ike, albeit 2 of the 5 were clones. Once Corrin was shown, the FE fans were probably pleased but oh boy let's not talk about how literally everybody else felt.

 

[KMDP]

I know a couple of Calvaliers that would like to kick your *** and be snarky as hell about it.

Nintendo Employee: Mr. Sakurai, sir. It appears that the fans want an Axe-wielding Fire Emblem character as a playable character to balance out all the Sword Wielders.
Sakurai: Hmm... yes... I get what you're saying.
Two months later Charlotte is a playable character.

...I'd play her... hell, I'd main her.

 

[RandomAce]

I would be okay with that
but Edelgard is a chick
View attachment 151044
And also people would whine anyway because if it's FE and it has a counter then people disregard its existence.

Well dammit I got confused!

I'm pretty sure most lords can use multiple weapons. It's just all of them have a particularly preferred weapon they use as their default like Hector and his three types of Armads.

I forgot about that. But apparently she prefers both, so idk.

But I turns out that the main character is the blue/green haired unnamed protagonist that was shown roaming around the castle. Edelgard, Demitri, and Claude are plot important characters but are in a similar vein to Robin and Lucina. Edelgard is a sword/axe user. Demitri is a lance user, and Claude is a bow user (also Claude doesn’t look like your typical FE character, having more tanner skin color).

So if anyone gets in, I’m assuming it might be him, the unnamed protagonist.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Nintendo Employee: Mr. Sakurai, sir. It appears that the fans want an Axe-wielding Fire Emblem character as a playable character.
Sakurai: Hmm... yes... I get what you're saying.
Two months later Charlotte is a playable character.

...I'd play her... hell, I'd main her.

I’ll take Charlotte over Camilla any day

 

[Makai Wars]

Once Corrin was shown, the FE fans were probably pleased but oh boy let's not talk about how literally everybody else felt.

Yeaaahh I think out of all the DLC, heck, all the Smash 4 newcomers overall, Corrin had the worst reception. The only other one who was close was Dark Pit but he's a clone (or """"""""""Echo Fighter""""""""""" now) so it wasn't really a big deal.

 

[Will]

Nintendo Employee: Mr. Sakurai, sir. It appears that the fans want an Axe-wielding Fire Emblem character as a playable character to balance out all the Sword Wielders.
Sakurai: Hmm... yes... I get what you're saying.
Two months later Charlotte is a playable character.

...I'd play her... hell, I'd main her.

Cain and Abel would like a word about your suggestion in question

Spoiler

 

[Idon]

I have to wonder why people care about the weapon triangle so much when it isn't even that important to a unit's viability.

It's having a goddamn horse. Now that's what makes a character viable in FE!

How long until we get Eliwood arriving via horseback! When he's hanging via the ledge, I wanna see Eliwood carry that 1000 pound horse by the sheer power of his lordly thighs.

 

[osby]

Nintendo Employee: Mr. Sakurai, sir. It appears that the fans want an Axe-wielding Fire Emblem character as a playable character to balance out all the Sword Wielders.
Sakurai: Hmm... yes... I get what you're saying.
Two months later Charlotte is a playable character.

...I'd play her... hell, I'd main her.

Two months? How optimistic.

 

[Will]

How long until we get Eliwood arriving via horseback! When he's hanging via the ledge, I wanna see Eliwood carry that 1000 pound horse by the sheer power of his lordly thighs.

You're heard of Roy's our boy, now get ready for Eliwood's our dad!

 

[KMDP]

I’ll take Charlotte over Camilla any day

Charlotte's fun.

Two months? How optimistic.

Let's say Sakurai was very motivated by Charlotte's charms.

And by charms I me- *banned*

 

[P.Kat]

One FE newcomer that I think would be great for Smash is Fjorm. A lancer so no one can complain about sword fatigue, and she has ice powers how 'cool' is that?

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Roy's promotion worked because no westerners have heard of Fire Emblem and his interest got Fire Emblem to release globally (except for his own game). I imagine the promotion worked well in the East, too. Fire Emblem was still a bit niche at the time, and Roy's game had yet to be released, got its good share of representation.

Corrin's promotion was for a game that had already come out for a few months, and Fire Emblem already had five characters in Smash 4. People were saying "Okay Sakurai you can stop with the anime now" because frankly for a smaller series 5 is pushing it when Brawl only had Marth and Ike, albeit 2 of the 5 were clones. Once Corrin was shown, the FE fans were probably pleased but oh boy let's not talk about how literally everybody else felt.

I didn’t mind Corrin. I thought they had an interesting moveset, and I was happy to see they didn’t play exactly like Marth. Am I the only one???

 

[Impa4Smash]

I have to wonder why people care about the weapon triangle so much when it isn't even that important to a unit's viability.

It's having a goddamn horse. Now that's what makes a character viable in FE!

How long until we get Eliwood arriving via horseback! When he's hanging via the ledge, I wanna see Eliwood carry that 1000 pound horse by the sheer power of his lordly thighs.

Titania or bust

 

[Will]

One FE newcomer that I think would be great for Smash is Fjorm.

How the **** do you pronounce that

 

[Cutie Gwen]

How the **** do you pronounce that

Fiora but instead of 'A' it's an 'M'

 

[osby]

Roy's promotion worked because no westerners have heard of Fire Emblem and his interest got Fire Emblem to release globally (except for his own game). I imagine the promotion worked well in the East, too. Fire Emblem was still a bit niche at the time, and Roy's game had yet to be released, got its good share of representation.

Corrin's promotion was for a game that had already come out for a few months, and Fire Emblem already had five characters in Smash 4. People were saying "Okay Sakurai you can stop with the anime now" because frankly for a smaller series 5 is pushing it when Brawl only had Marth and Ike, albeit 2 of the 5 were clones. Once Corrin was shown, the FE fans were probably pleased but oh boy let's not talk about how literally everybody else felt.

I don't consider myself as a big FE fan, but I still didn't have a problem with Corrin's franchise. I'm not too fond of the character but I think I started to warm up to him.

 

[KMDP]

Titania or bust

I see your Titania and raise you Seth. Or Frederick.
NGL though I'd rather have Titania.

How the **** do you pronounce that

"Fyorm", easy.

 

[Captain Fun]

How the **** do you pronounce that

Fyorm.

EDIT:'d

Also I wouldn't mind but I'd rather have Ephraim.

 

[Idon]

How the **** do you pronounce that

Obviously it's pronounced
Fuh-Jorm

 

[Impa4Smash]

I see your Titania and raise you Seth. Or Frederick.

"Fyorm", easy.

Frederick beats everyone. If he says “Pick a god and pray” for a taunt/before a final smash...instant main

 

[Will]

Fiora but instead of 'A' it's an 'M'

I see your Titania and raise you Seth. Or Frederick.

"Fyorm", easy.

Fyorm.

EDIT:'d

Also I wouldn't mind but I'd rather have Ephraim.

Screw that, she's gonna be Fuhjerm now.

 

[Deleted member]

Who has that pipe dream character that you want but has no chance of happening mine is Dora the Explorer no hate

 

[Will]

Who has that pipe dream character that you want but has no chance of happening mine is Dora the Explorer no hate

Don't bring this up again.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Who has that pipe dream character that you want but has no chance of happening mine is Dora the Explorer no hate

What is it with you and Dora the Explorer?

Honest question.

 

[Idon]

Who has that pipe dream character that you want but has no chance of happening mine is Dora the Explorer no hate

Go DIego Go or bust

 

[Impa4Smash]

Go DIego Go or bust

Clearly Diego would be an echo of Dora. Come on

 

[Deleted member]

View attachment 151048

Don't bring this up again.

Yeah probably shouldn't I mentioned that I want her in the game and everyone freaked out

 

[Will]

Go DIego Go or bust

Isn't it weird how he was younger in his spinoff but older in the main series?
I haven't seen that show since I was like 5 but was Nick trying to form a Dora timeline? Is there a DTU (Dora the Universe)?

 

[Deleted member]

What is it with you and Dora the Explorer?

Honest question.

She lit

 

[osby]

Who has that pipe dream character that you want but has no chance of happening mine is Dora the Explorer no hate

Persona 3 protagonist. He is a blue haired, sword wielding JRPG pretty boy. He should be popular in Smash fandom.