Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Will]

I don’t get all the Fire Emblem hate. I don’t even play it, but I know it’s a popular franchise, and that in recent years Nintendo’s been pushing for it.

I think for some people like me it changed a little too much in some aspects. FE Awakening was like a swan song until it sold like hotcakes, so now you got stuff like marriage and children. It was in FE4 as a Love System, but not as big a concept as it was in FE13 onwards.
I guess people just don't want to lose to anime or bad writing

To go into detail about why people don't like them in Smash specifically, from Melee to Brawl to Smash 4, the roster size went from 2 to 2 again to 6. Pretty big of a jump, and people love to play the "(s)he stole that slot!" game.

 

[Hinata]

To make this more than just spam, how would you all feel if Celica were to be revealed as a newcomer next?

I'd be fine with it only if they don't pull what they did in Fire Emblem Warriors and just make her a Marth clone.

 

[Enchess]

I think people just don't want anymore Fire Emblem characters. I can understand that, but at the same time Fire Emblem is a character driven game so it's pretty perfect for Smash. I think the biggest thing people complain about is lack of variety, but at the same time Smash 4 got both Robin and Corrin who aren't the normal Fire Emblem reps in terms of playstyle.

The problem is they both have swords and people who don't know the series get a strongly negative first impression from that that's hard to get over. That's why I've decided my most wanted FE newcomer is now Myrrh instead of Lyn or Hector. She's so different that nobody would have that first reaction of "not another blue haired Lord sword user"

 

[DJ3DS]

Even if it was Myrrh? Nobody can hate Myrrh. She's not a lord, doesn't use a weapon, and doesn't have blue hair. The least offensive FE newcomer possible.

Ultimately the least offensive FE character is still a FE character and hence a disappointment to those of us who wouldnt touch the series with a barge pole.

After getting Ridley, ICs and Snake at E3 I wouldn't begrudge the character appearing but it's impossible for me to not be disappointed at a character from a series I don't care about appearing before the franchises I do care about when we know we do not have many newcomers yet to be revealed.

 

[Will]

The problem is they both have swords and people who don't know the series get a strongly negative first impression from that that's hard to get over. That's why I've decided my most wanted FE newcomer is now Myrrh instead of Lyn or Hector. She's so different that nobody would have that first reaction of "not another blue haired Lord sword user"

People don't like blue hair
People don't like white hair :ultrobin
People can dig red hair. Red hair is fine.

 

[Zinith]

They could pull a Brawl Pokemon trainer and have an axe FE character and a lance character and add in the weapon triangle mechanic because Sakurai thought it would be cool as he's smoking a doobie. That axe character would get creamed...

 

[DarkFalcon]

Roy coming back would have been pretty cool if it didn't get leaked.

 

[Enchess]

People don't like blue hair
People don't like white hair :ultrobin
People can dig red hair. Red hair is fine.

Roy is our boy after all.

I think it's weird how many times I've heard "blue haired lord" as a way to write off all the Smash FE characters when it's only half of them.

 

[monadoboy]

Well, I was also extremely confident in an AC rep before Villager and was confident that Chorus Kids weren't in Sm4sh, so I don't think my track record of just guessing is that bad haha.

Ridley had everything going for him. A fanbase big enough to make headlines, acknowledgement from Sakurai, and the openly admitted reason for him being passed over wasn't an issue to anyone who tried to make it work. There was no way Sakurai wasn't at least going to try thinking through how to make him work after Sm4sh backlash. It really didn't take much thought to realize that size was never a critical part of his identity.

I'd also say Ridley was obvious, I'm actually surprised some people didn't see it coming. There's been several picks that are so obvious it hurts. Shulk, Palutena in 4, Inklings, Ridley in Ultimate, for example. Then there's the ones that are obvious in retrospective, like Robin, Villager and now Daisy due to the Echo thing.

 

[Will]

They could pull a Brawl Pokemon trainer and have an axe FE character and a lance character and add in the weapon triangle mechanic because Sakurai thought it would be cool as he's smoking a doobie. That axe character would get creamed...

Hector would obviously be the axe wielder but who would be the lance wielder? Sigurd?

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Hector would obviously be the axe wielder but who would be the lance wielder? Sigurd?

I don't know FE but you just linked a pic to what appears to be another blue haired swordsman so I'd say... no?

 

[Zinith]

Hector would obviously be the axe wielder but who would be the lance wielder? Sigurd?

The male lord from the Sacred Stones? (I can't remember his name)

 

[Enchess]

Hector would obviously be the axe wielder but who would be the lance wielder? Sigurd?

Ephraim, the only lord who can rival Hector in bad***ery

 

[Will]

I don't know FE but you just linked a pick to another blue haired swordsman so I'd say... no?

You know how black/brown is the most common hair color in the world?
In FE that color is blue. Get used to it. Sigurd can wield a lance and I like FE4 a lot

The male lord from the Sacred Stones? (I can't remember his name)

Eliwood? Roy's dad? The one who can say "Roy's our boy" and actually mean it?

 

[Zinith]

Eliwood? Roy's dad? The one who can say "Roy's our boy" and actually mean it?

That's the Blazing Sword. Sacred Stones is the one after that...

 

[N3ON]

Roy coming back would have been pretty cool if it didn't get leaked.

Shame we got deprived of potentially mental reactions to Ryu. xP

 

[Will]

That's the Blazing Sword. Sacred Stones is the one after that...

**** YOU MEAN SETH?
HELL YEAH

Spoiler: big boy image

I forgot what FE7's actual name was since it was just called Fire Emblem overseas.

 

[PSIguy89]

Ahhhh Page 1993!!! The year Megaman X came out!! One of my all time favorite SNES games!

 

[Wambo]

Saw a newcomer thread about the Pro Wrestlers, and I never realized how I forgot Pro Wrestling. Star Man/The Amazon's pretty cool though.

Imagine the announcer lines if either of these guys were in Smash 4.

"A winner is... YOU!"

 

[Opossum]

I'd be fine with it only if they don't pull what they did in Fire Emblem Warriors and just make her a Marth clone.

I mean, in Warriors she was a literal last-minute addition requested by Nintendo, and due to the game locking people to one weapon type and not allowing for Valentia-styled Magic, it's understandable. Annoying as hell, but understandable.

Hypothetically, Sakurai wouldn't need to worry about that.

 

[Enchess]

**** YOU MEAN SETH?
HELL YEAH

Spoiler: big boy image

I forgot what FE7's actual name was since it was just called Fire Emblem overseas.
View attachment 150629

No, they mean Ephraim. Eirika's brother

 

[KMDP]

**** YOU MEAN SETH?
HELL YEAH

Spoiler: big boy image

I forgot what FE7's actual name was since it was just called Fire Emblem overseas.
View attachment 150629

Speaking of Sacred Stones, I played a randomiser run of it recently.

Eirika ended up as a Knight (and was pretty good as a result), Ephraim was one of those eyeball things, and Seth randomised... into a Paladin.

Joshua ended up as a Knight too, and was ugly as sin (he had weird swirls of black, red and white). But after he became a General he ended up looking cool as s***.

 

[Will]

No, they mean Ephraim. Eirika's brother

For some reason I thought he said red-haired Lord, and then I thought "wait Seth isn't a lord". My brain game is off today, but I love Seth.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Ok so question. A Bethesda character gets in. Who would you rather it be?

The Wanderer - Fallout
The Doom Slayer - Doom
The Dragonborn - Skyrim

Me, personally, I'd prefer the Doom Slayer.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Sacred Stones is the only Fire Emblem game I've played so I'd be totally down for Ephraim but it won't happen unfortunately.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

I think people just don't want anymore Fire Emblem characters. I can understand that, but at the same time Fire Emblem is a character driven game so it's pretty perfect for Smash. I think the biggest thing people complain about is lack of variety, but at the same time Smash 4 got both Robin and Corrin who aren't the normal Fire Emblem reps in terms of playstyle.

I think for some people like me it changed a little too much in some aspects. FE Awakening was like a swan song until it sold like hotcakes, so now you got stuff like marriage and children. It was in FE4 as a Love System, but not as big a concept as it was in FE13 onwards.
I guess people just don't want to lose to anime or bad writing

To go into detail about why people don't like them in Smash specifically, from Melee to Brawl to Smash 4, the roster size went from 2 to 2 again to 6. Pretty big of a jump, and people love to play the "(s)he stole that slot!" game.

Exactly. We got a mage and someone whom, while they do use a sword, can transmogrify parts of themselves into a dragon at will. Both are very different than just a swordsman/swordswoman.

The Stolen Slot game will always be around so long as Smash continues as a series.

I understand the franchise had a big jump in terms of representation too. However, one was fan demand, so people wanted him back. Two were from the saving title of the franchise, and one was for promotional purposes.

I also don’t like the belief that Corrin could’ve/would’ve/should’ve been the Newcomer for this game, and blame them for the Fire Emblem hate. No...they were chosen to promote the newest game in the franchise.

Regardless. I stand by no Newcomer for base roster, and a Three Houses Rep for DLC later on.

 

[Zinith]

Ok so question. A Bethesda character gets in. Who would you rather it be?

The Wanderer - Fallout
The Doom Slayer - Doom
The Dragonborn - Skyrim

Me, personally, I'd prefer the Doom Slayer.

Doom Slayer, just to hear that kick*** theme!!!

 

[BluePikmin11]

Have you guys seen SEGAGameboy around these forums? He seems to post in every support thread, never playing any of the character's source material, but supporting them anyway. He even posted in my Dr. Kawashima support thread even though he was already disconfirmed. He is a pretty bizarre dude.

 

[N3ON]

Ok so question. A Bethesda character gets in. Who would you rather it be?

The Wanderer - Fallout
The Doom Slayer - Doom
The Dragonborn - Skyrim

Me, personally, I'd prefer the Doom Slayer.

Vault Boy

then Doomslayer

 

[Megadoomer]

Ok so question. A Bethesda character gets in. Who would you rather it be?

The Wanderer - Fallout
The Doom Slayer - Doom
The Dragonborn - Skyrim

Me, personally, I'd prefer the Doom Slayer.

Doomguy. Aside from him being (as far as I know) the only one of those who isn't based around customization (which seems like it would make creating a character for Smash difficult, especially with Skyrim where the Dragonborn's appearance and abilities can turn out wildly different depending on the playthrough), he'd just be a lot of fun.

 

[Enchess]

Ok so question. A Bethesda character gets in. Who would you rather it be?

The Wanderer - Fallout
The Doom Slayer - Doom
The Dragonborn - Skyrim

Me, personally, I'd prefer the Doom Slayer.

Well, if we're letting all hell break loose, Mecha-Hitler but none of his attacks do damage. He's just there so we can beat up Hitler. If I'm being more serious, Doom Slayer.

 

[Freduardo]

Just watched NGameTheCube’s video on his predicted characters.

He predicted Chrom as an echo for Ike, as Ike’s Chrom costume was removed, and Robin’s Final Smash has yet to be shown.

He predicted Shadow as an echo for Sonic, as his assist trophy hasn’t been shown, and Knuckles has been shown as a Sonic assist trophy.

He predicted Dark Samus as an echo for Samus, as her Dark samus outfit was removed and the assist trophy has yet to be shown.

He predicted Isabelle based on popularity and her assist trophy not being shown and popularity.

And Simon Belmont because Bomberman is an assist trophy.

These all seem pretty logical except maybe Isabelle, who I can still see the logic behind it.

Are Shadow Link/Shadow Toon Link still available as costumes?

 

[Nani?]

Just watched NGameTheCube’s video on his predicted characters.

He predicted Chrom as an echo for Ike, as Ike’s Chrom costume was removed, and Robin’s Final Smash has yet to be shown.

He predicted Shadow as an echo for Sonic, as his assist trophy hasn’t been shown, and Knuckles has been shown as a Sonic assist trophy.

He predicted Dark Samus as an echo for Samus, as her Dark samus outfit was removed and the assist trophy has yet to be shown.

He predicted Isabelle based on popularity and her assist trophy not being shown and popularity.

And Simon Belmont because Bomberman is an assist trophy.

These all seem pretty logical except maybe Isabelle, who I can still see the logic behind it.

Are Shadow Link/Shadow Toon Link still available as costumes?

Yep. Shadow Young Like also is a thing now.

 

[Radical Bones]

Just watched NGameTheCube’s video on his predicted characters.

He predicted Chrom as an echo for Ike, as Ike’s Chrom costume was removed, and Robin’s Final Smash has yet to be shown.

He predicted Shadow as an echo for Sonic, as his assist trophy hasn’t been shown, and Knuckles has been shown as a Sonic assist trophy.

He predicted Dark Samus as an echo for Samus, as her Dark samus outfit was removed and the assist trophy has yet to be shown.

He predicted Isabelle based on popularity and her assist trophy not being shown and popularity.

And Simon Belmont because Bomberman is an assist trophy.

These all seem pretty logical except maybe Isabelle, who I can still see the logic behind it.

Are Shadow Link/Shadow Toon Link still available as costumes?

The problem I have with the 'costume was removed' argument is that we don't know that for sure. We haven't seen the full game yet. We also didn't see Meta Ridley and we know it is an alt.

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

Not Charlotte Hector? An axe-wielder would be pretty sweet.

No Lyn, no Hector

Court adjourned. Bring in the dancing lobsters!

 

[KMDP]

No Lyn, no Hector

Court adjourned. Bring in the dancing lobsters!

Charlotte, then? Yay.
Xander: I WON'T ALLOW IT!

 

[Will]

Ok so question. A Bethesda character gets in. Who would you rather it be?

The Wanderer - Fallout
The Doom Slayer - Doom
The Dragonborn - Skyrim

Me, personally, I'd prefer the Doom Slayer.

[doom theme intensifies]
Doomguy is easily the most applicable out of all of them. The only rival is Todd "Did you buy Skyrim for Switch yet?" Howard.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Using the fact that alt costumes/skins weren’t in the demo is a fallacy in itself.

For a more obvious example, Meta Ridley was shown in the trailer, but was not available in the game. Does this mean the Meta Ridley costume isn’t in Smash? Of course not. It just wasn’t in the demo.

Likewise, Mario didn’t have his Fire Mario costume in the demo. Does that mean Fire Mario isn’t in the game? Again, of course not. It is, it just wasn’t in the demo.

This also applies to Assist Trophies. Considering Knuckles functions differently from Shadow, there’s no reason to think Shadow was replaced by Knuckles when they could easily coexist.

In Wii U, there was no sign of Isaac as an Assist trophy. If it was assumed that Isaac was playable, those assuming that he was playable were unfortunately wrong.

It’s waaaaaaay too earlier to make these calls. If Robin has a different final smash, then I think there’s a reasonable chance of Chrom being playable. The absence of the color scheme is not a reason to expect Chrom because it could still easily be in the game.

Likewise, Ashley, Shadow, Isabelle, and Skull Kid not being in the demo means effectively nothing at this point because we don’t know at least 20-25 Assist Trophies or something like that.

Frankly, saying something that’s missing from the demo confirms something is like saying that any character not on the roster in the demo is not playable. That’s nonsense, especially because we KNOW there is more content. There’s no reason to think differently with Assist Trophies, Stages, Music, Items, and costumes.

 

[Will]

Just watched NGameTheCube’s video on his predicted characters.

He predicted Chrom as an echo for Ike, as Ike’s Chrom costume was removed, and Robin’s Final Smash has yet to be shown.

He predicted Shadow as an echo for Sonic, as his assist trophy hasn’t been shown, and Knuckles has been shown as a Sonic assist trophy.

He predicted Dark Samus as an echo for Samus, as her Dark samus outfit was removed and the assist trophy has yet to be shown.

He predicted Isabelle based on popularity and her assist trophy not being shown and popularity.

And Simon Belmont because Bomberman is an assist trophy.

These all seem pretty logical except maybe Isabelle, who I can still see the logic behind it.

I don't like these at all. Not because I don't want them, but because literally all the reasons (sans Chrom) is "assist trophy" and "final smash" logic. The only argument I see that can be viable is the costume one, but since there are obviously alts that we haven't seen in the demo but know exist in the game already, it puts it on thin ice already.

We never saw Lucario's final smash, I predict Mega Lucario will be an alternate costume.
You see how that doesn't fall through? You're not predicting anything, you're just assuming why something hasn't been shown yet. It's Ridley's shadow on pyrosphere, but with content missing from a demo.

 

[Enchess]

Using the fact that alt costumes/skins weren’t in the demo is a fallacy in itself.

For a more obvious example, Meta Ridley was shown in the trailer, but was not available in the game. Does this mean the Meta Ridley costume isn’t in Smash? Of course not. It just wasn’t in the demo.

Likewise, Mario didn’t have his Fire Mario costume in the demo. Does that mean Fire Mario isn’t in the game? Again, of course not. It is, it just wasn’t in the demo.

This also applies to Assist atrophied. Considering Knuckles functions differently from Shadow, there’s no reason to think Shadow was replaced by Knuckles when they could easily coexist.

In Wii U, there was no sign of Isaac as an Assist trophy. If it was assumed that Isaac was playable, those assuming that were unfortunately wrong.

It’s waaaaaaay too earlier to make these calls. If Robin has a different final smash, then I think there’s a reasonable chance of Chrom being playable. The absence of the color scheme is not a reason to expect Chrom.

Likewise, Ashley, Shadow, Isabelle, and Skull Kid not being in the demo means effectively nothing at this point because we don’t know at least 20-25 Assist Trophies or something like that.

Frankly, saying something that’s missing from the demo confirms something is like saying that any character not on the roster in the demo is not playable. That’s nonsense, especially because we KNOW there is more content. There’s no reason to think differently with Assist Trophies, Stages, Music, Items, and costumes.

I don't think anyone thinks it really confirms it. But IF the characters are in then they would remove those colors and AT. So if they are not in demo, especially conspicuous ones like Ashley and Shadow who are among first AT to come to mind when concept is mentioned, it does bode well for those characters.