Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Cutie Gwen]

Yes, but Brawl was literally gonna be Melee HD with netplay and no new content. Sakurai only signed on because he felt that wouldn't have been fair to the fans.


Well, that's what I'm saying. It'll be a Deluxe port that combines all the stuff from the WiiU and 3DS games, and adds a couple new things like perhaps a few new stages, and I'd say... 3 new characters, MAX.

Ice Climbers
Inklings (maybe?)
and a Ballot or 3rd Party character to generate hype

It's always best to be modest with your expectations when it comes to this stuff. People thoughts we'd get several ballot characters when that ran, and in the end we only got Bayonetta.

>adding new content every year
No way. Do you have any idea how costly that would be? Not even close. They'll do a Deluxe port with some new stuff, MAYBE some DLC, and that's basically it for the entire Switch lifespan I'd say.

Doesn't matter. They wanted to do a Smash game without him. Meaning Nintendo are willing to replace him. And will if Sakurai doesn't want to be the director

 

[Opossum]

Doesn't matter. They wanted to do a Smash game without him. Meaning Nintendo are willing to replace him. And will if Sakurai doesn't want to be the director

To be fair, it could have been done solely to get Sakurai aboard. Like, they didn't want to do a new one without him because they know it's out of their league, while porting is easier. By coming out and announcing that, it may have been a gambit to get Sakurai aboard, given his pride and Japan's general attitude toward competition and stuff. It seemed tactical.

They weren't willing to make a new game without him, but were willing to port an old one.


Just playing devil's advocate.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

To be fair, it could have been done solely to get Sakurai aboard. Like, they didn't want to do a new one without him because they know it's out of their league, while porting is easier. By coming out and announcing that, it may have been a gambit to get Sakurai aboard, given his pride and Japan's general attitude toward competition and stuff. It seemed tactical.

They weren't willing to make a new game without him, but were willing to port an old one.


Just playing devil's advocate.

I understand DA, but that is really reaching it. Like. Why not just ask him instead of pulling a bat**** insane attempt at a batman gambit?

 

[Ura]

Yes, but Brawl was literally gonna be Melee HD with netplay and no new content. Sakurai only signed on because he felt that wouldn't have been fair to the fans.


Well, that's what I'm saying. It'll be a Deluxe port that combines all the stuff from the WiiU and 3DS games, and adds a couple new things like perhaps a few new stages, and I'd say... 3 new characters, MAX.

Ice Climbers
Inklings (maybe?)
and a Ballot or 3rd Party character to generate hype

It's always best to be modest with your expectations when it comes to this stuff. People thoughts we'd get several ballot characters when that ran, and in the end we only got Bayonetta.

>adding new content every year
No way. Do you have any idea how costly that would be? Not even close. They'll do a Deluxe port with some new stuff, MAYBE some DLC, and that's basically it for the entire Switch lifespan I'd say.

Costly yes but Smash Bros is a big enough series to do that. Just an example here. I don't see how anyone could be excited with the addition of 3 new characters and calling it a day. It feels so flat. You need to maintain the hype for the game.

Sakurai doesn't have to be on board with everything for it to happen. It's very plausible that Smash Bros can just end up for a new director with maybe Sakurai in an advisor role. Whether that's for the idea I mentioned or a new Smash from the ground up.

And then there's always the possibility that Sakurai would just come back to do whatever the next Smash Bros game is. He's done interviews in the past where he sort of hinted being done with the series only to come back. It's hard to tell what's going on with Smash right now.

 

[Opossum]

I understand DA, but that is really reaching it. Like. Why not just ask him instead of pulling a bat**** insane attempt at a batman gambit?

Because I wouldn't doubt Sakurai is prideful and has a "you couldn't do it without me" approach. The series is his baby, arguably more than Kirby was, and unlike Kirby it requires a lot more specific knowledge to make (more goes into a fighting game than a 2D plat former). Putting their plans out in the forefront though? That'd show him they were serious and be the best way to get him aboard.


But even then, they still never planned a brand new game without him, but a mere port.

 

[Deleted member]

Costly yes but Smash Bros is a big enough series to do that. Just an example here. I don't see how anyone could be excited with the addition of 3 new characters and calling it a day. It feels so flat. You need to maintain the hype for the game.

Sakurai doesn't have to be on board with everything for it to happen. It's very plausible that Smash Bros can just end up for a new director with maybe Sakurai in an advisor role. Whether that's for the idea I mentioned or a new Smash from the ground up.

And then there's always the possibility that Sakurai would just come back to do whatever the next Smash Bros game is. He's done interviews in the past where he sort of hinted being done with the series only to come back. It's hard to tell what's going on with Smash right now.

Considering the ballot DLC, I'd say plenty of people would be happy enough with just 3 characters and some new stages, as well as the 3DS content in HD.

Look at Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, and then consider that developing a character for a fighting game is far more intensive than one for a racer.

I think you're being overly optimistic of things, and moreover, underestimating the cost in manpower and the like in supporting a game in such a way. That essentially the model for SFV and it's been massively costly for Capcom, EASILY their most costly SF game by far, and the main reason they've kept up with it is cause the game's been a financial disaster, and they got a lot of **** for partial game updates last gen with SFIV. That model, isn't just have a couple of guys working on it. It's have the director and the entire team providing support for the game well after development. Like they did for DLC. And as far as Sakurai is concerned, he's done. He might be convinced to come back to do a final update on 4 for Switch, but he's not gonna stick around and provide yearly support for the game when he's said he wants to work on other stuff.

Moreover, you and Gwen say "finding a new person" like it's easy. But it's not always so simple. Nintendo is very protective of their IP, and Smash is a big name. I reckon they'll pass it off to someone else when they find someone suitable to take up the mantle. Handing the Smash IP to the wrong person could tarnish the franchise. This is why I also say they'd likely wait along time after the Deluxe port, simply to kinda give the series a rest for a while, while the find a new director, and give things enough time to justify a reboot and a new direction.

I'm certain Switch will only get a Deluxe port akin to MK8, and that's basically it. From there, I say expect news on Smash to be very silent for a loooooong time. Like we've seen with other IP in the past. And the main reason being, it's partially cause of Sakurai's health, but also, because they basically went all out with 4 in order to satisfy people. This is Nintendo saying, "this is it, we put as much as we could in terms of resources, manpower, and content, into this game, this is our best attempt to satisfy everyone, if this isn't enough, then you'll never be satisfied." When I look at Smash 4, that's basically what I see. And when I have conversations with other people outside of here on this subject, most people are perfectly fine with a reboot of sorts, or half the roster getting slashed, etc... because they feels Smash 4 is the best as the game could possibly be.

Think of it from that perspective.

That's kinda what Nintendo and Sakurai are telling everyone, and that's kinda how the majority of the gaming public sees it.

 

[Luminario]

Can we go back to fighting over characters again? Compared to this depressing "port with 3 characters then nothing for a decade" talk it was much more fun.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Can we go back to fighting over characters again? Compared to this depressing "port with 3 characters then nothing for a decade" talk it was much more fun.

Sure!

Snake's coming back and none of you **** heads can convince me otherwise.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sure!

Snake's coming back and none of you **** heads can convince me otherwise.

Hey, I don't stink that much.

Also, the only FE cuts that ever seem feasible to me are Corrin(if they want to add someone newer), Lucina(if they aren't planning on doing extra clones, and if they lack the time, but she could easily come back. It's 50/50), and Roy(low priority, could easily be DLC). The cast didn't really rotate into Brawl, contrary to popular belief, but 4 does show that adding someone within the current timeframe is important. I feel the other 3 are safe for various reasons; Marth is the face, Ike is too popular to cut, and Robin's uniqueness does a great job of making the series' representation interesting and does it well.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Sure!

Snake's coming back and none of you **** heads can convince me otherwise.

Konami.

Nothing else need to be said.

​

 

[Aurane]

I want a Snake in Smash.

But not Konami's Snake.

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

So, would you guys be up for original costumes made exclusively for SSB?

 

[Opossum]

So, would you guys be up for original costumes made exclusively for SSB?

I feel that'd be out of place for anything other than Miis. The time they could use making those would be better put toward giving them costumes that actually reference their games.

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

I feel that'd be out of place for anything other than Miis. The time they could use making those would be better put toward giving them costumes that actually reference their games.

Well, I kinda wanted to see some fight-related pizzazz kinda like in Dead or Alive or Tekken.

...or maybe I just wanted to see DK in MMA shorts.

 

[Aurane]

Well, I kinda wanted to see some fight-related pizzazz kinda like in Dead or Alive or Tekken.

...or maybe I just wanted to see DK in MMA shorts.

Or this masterpiece.

Seriously this needs to be in the main game. With a black alt if possible.

 

[Mythra]

Bride Mario costume for the next Smash or riot.

 

[Ura]

Considering the ballot DLC, I'd say plenty of people would be happy enough with just 3 characters and some new stages, as well as the 3DS content in HD.

Look at Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, and then consider that developing a character for a fighting game is far more intensive than one for a racer.

I think you're being overly optimistic of things, and moreover, underestimating the cost in manpower and the like in supporting a game in such a way. That essentially the model for SFV and it's been massively costly for Capcom, EASILY their most costly SF game by far, and the main reason they've kept up with it is cause the game's been a financial disaster, and they got a lot of **** for partial game updates last gen with SFIV. That model, isn't just have a couple of guys working on it. It's have the director and the entire team providing support for the game well after development. Like they did for DLC. And as far as Sakurai is concerned, he's done. He might be convinced to come back to do a final update on 4 for Switch, but he's not gonna stick around and provide yearly support for the game when he's said he wants to work on other stuff.

Moreover, you and Gwen say "finding a new person" like it's easy. But it's not always so simple. Nintendo is very protective of their IP, and Smash is a big name. I reckon they'll pass it off to someone else when they find someone suitable to take up the mantle. Handing the Smash IP to the wrong person could tarnish the franchise. This is why I also say they'd likely wait along time after the Deluxe port, simply to kinda give the series a rest for a while, while the find a new director, and give things enough time to justify a reboot and a new direction.

I'm certain Switch will only get a Deluxe port akin to MK8, and that's basically it. From there, I say expect news on Smash to be very silent for a loooooong time. Like we've seen with other IP in the past. And the main reason being, it's partially cause of Sakurai's health, but also, because they basically went all out with 4 in order to satisfy people. This is Nintendo saying, "this is it, we put as much as we could in terms of resources, manpower, and content, into this game, this is our best attempt to satisfy everyone, if this isn't enough, then you'll never be satisfied." When I look at Smash 4, that's basically what I see. And when I have conversations with other people outside of here on this subject, most people are perfectly fine with a reboot of sorts, or half the roster getting slashed, etc... because they feels Smash 4 is the best as the game could possibly be.

Think of it from that perspective.

That's kinda what Nintendo and Sakurai are telling everyone, and that's kinda how the majority of the gaming public sees it.

Maybe but that's largely in part in that most of the Switch userbase most likely never bought Smash Wii U.

Don't want to make comparisons with MK. They're two different beasts altogether.

You have a point with your statement about manpower and production, i'll give you that. Maybe what I mentioned is a bit wishy washy but I think it's possible for a series like Smash Bros. Not to mention said concept would be much different than Street Fighter. I feel the intrigue and excitement from everyone would be much higher for Smash Bros VS that of Street Fighter. Speculating on who might be in the game next and the prospect of seeing all these well known characters (or characters that just implement a cool moveset in some way) is enough to get people invested in the game for years to come; for both casual and hardcore audiences. More so the later. As I mentioned above, Smash is different from all other games given the nature of what it is and I think of all possible series that could implement something like this it's Smash.

Again, we don't know for sure if Sakurai is done or not. He could very well be done. We don't know that for sure. Even if he was as I mentioned before Smash is a game that can be undertaken by a new director. Nintendo is very over-protective of their IP yes but they're not going to let Smash die off just because Sakurai doesn't want to get on board with whatever the next game is. Very similar to how Kirby didn't die off without him. Bandai Namco could easily take over the series in his absence with a new director (with Sakurai in an advisor role as I mentioned before). Smash Bros isn't going to be ruined forever in the absence of Sakurai.

And again with the reboot topic. I already talked about it before but there's ZERO reason to ever do that with the way the roster is right now. Why do you want to cut the roster so arbitrarily when you risk pissing so many people off? For overhauled mechanics? I mean **** people were up in arms when the IC's got cut from the game and similar sentiment exists for other cut characters. Having a mass exodus will never end up going well and it's only counterproductive given where the series is right now. You can keep saying stuff like "where do you go after Smash 4" and stuff as well as speaking as if you know Nintendo/Sakurai's mentality about what they want to do next but really it's conjecture at best. I can say Smash 4 is an incomplete game because it lacks the single player content Melee and Brawl had and that would be conjecture as well.

Once more, Smash Bros is one of the Nintendo series that will never go on hiatus. The way you're making it out to be is a Metroid/F-Zero/Advance Wars kind of hiatus which Smash Bros will never have. It's apart of a select 5-6 Nintendo franchises that will always make it's way to every console.

And please don't say "the majority of the gaming public" as if your the representative of what they want. It's such a blanket statement and really a cop-out answer to undermine an argument. i.e. Common perceptions of the Ballot. For real.

 

[Luminario]

Bride Mario costume for the next Smash or riot.

It's what we truly deserve.
Damn though, there goes another lingering thread of hope that there's a super secret playable Peach mode and that they hinted at it with the amiibo functionality.

 

[PeridotGX]

Oh yeah, I need to do the "Will FE:W" influence Smash 5 in any way" thing.

Honestly, all I see it doing is making Lucina stay relevant enough to stay in Smash. Maybe.

 

[Deleted member]

I want a Snake in Smash.

But not Konami's Snake.

Snake Jailbird?

 

[Luminario]

Oh yeah, I need to do the "Will FE:W" influence Smash 5 in any way" thing.

Honestly, all I see it doing is making Lucina stay relevant enough to stay in Smash. Maybe.

It lets Corrin borrow from Tiki's moveset by using the dragonstone as a sharp telekinetic whacking jewel. But honestly though, using the dragonstone as an actual weapon was a genius move and I'd like to see that in Smash.
Also bride Lucina outfit, that dress is gorgeous.

 

[Ura]

Snake Jailbird?

He's fourth party tho. If he gets in that means Goku does as well!

Do you have any idea what you're doing?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Honestly, all I see it doing is making Lucina stay relevant enough to stay in Smash. Maybe.

I uh...

Dude Lucina has reached the point where she is never going to stop being relevant.

Heck I'd venture to say that Corrin is the only FE character in Smash not at that point yet and they're practically there. Just wait a year or two.

 

[Deleted member]

I highly doubt Lucina will be cut. She's far too popular at this point to be disposed of, not to mention easy to bring back.
Honestly, I don't think any of the FE characters will get the axe, because they can't it unless reclassed they're all far too popular. We might not see a FE newcomer though.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Lucina is, again, pretty much the second face of the franchise at this point. Being Female Marth has it's merrits, and I think cutting Lucina from Smash would be a vital mistake. She has more staying power than a few other characters on the roster. She deserves a stay, cause she's ridiculously easy to re-add into the game as well. With that, I mean her current self. She can also be changed up, but I think offering balance to Marth's main tipper gimmick is already a great merrit on it's own.

So yeah, basically I wanna say, I think all the 3 clones who where added at the last possible time of the base roster are great choices. Each individually. And I actually wouldn't mind more of these sort of clones. The more the merrier!

 

[Freduardo]

Lucina is, again, pretty much the second face of the franchise at this point. Being Female Marth has it's merrits, and I think cutting Lucina from Smash would be a vital mistake. She has more staying power than a few other characters on the roster. She deserves a stay, cause she's ridiculously easy to re-add into the game as well. With that, I mean her current self. She can also be changed up, but I think offering balance to Marth's main tipper gimmick is already a great merrit on it's own.

So yeah, basically I wanna say, I think all the 3 clones who where added at the last possible time of the base roster are great choices. Each individually. And I actually wouldn't mind more of these sort of clones. The more the merrier!

Are the three clones Lucina, dark pit, and doc Mario?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Are the three clones Lucina, dark pit, and doc Mario?

Yes.

I initially disliked them greatly too, and was majorly upset that Dr.Mario came back before Mewtwo. But hey, I appriciate them now.

Wish they would be designed more like Dr.Mario actually, having statistical differences and a couple of original moves never hurts.

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

Someone said Nintendo is protective of their Intellectual Properties.

I honestly think they're too protective.

I wish they gamble with them more.

 

[Deleted member]

The only one of the clone trio I wholeheartedly dislike is Dark Pit.
I feel like the reason Sakurai wanted to portray Dark Pit accurately (despite the fact several past Smash characters' have been portrayed rather off, i.e. Ganondorf and Ness) was because he's Sakurai's "child". And despite the "took 10 seconds to make" excuse, he still represents Kid Icarus, a very small franchise that's already got way more content than it deserves (I don't like this excuse, but it's undeniable in KI's case), and simply doesn't deserve more than 2 characters at its current state.
I agree that 6 FE characters is overkill, but at least the franchise is still relevant and makes Nintendo a **** tons of money, so I find it more justified than giving Kid Icarus 3 characters.
I know I sound like a Ridley conspiracist, but it just makes sense to me.

 

[UserKev]

Can someone please remake the Ghirahim support threat?!

 

[Deleted member]

He's fourth party tho.

-triggered-

 

[Ura]

-triggered-

My bad. I meant fifth party cuz he doesn't even originate from Japan.

 

[Freduardo]

Can someone please remake the Ghirahim support threat?!

You can.

I believe in you.

Ghirahim is Vaati....

 

[Aurane]

Snake Jailbird?

No, but I'm willing to reconsider my choices.

 

[Deleted member]

No, but I'm willing to reconsider my choices.

"Very good, little dude! Ha HA!"

 

[Aurane]

I was actually talking about Serperior.

My recent days in Showdown made me respect Serperior so much more.

 

[Deleted member]

I was actually talking about Serperior.

My recent days in Showdown made me respect Serperior so much more.

Don't mind me... Just ****ting Serperior like I always do.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

View attachment 133366

Don't mind me... Just ****ting Serperior like I always do.

Why do you **** on perfection?

 

[Deleted member]

Why do you **** on perfection?

Because perfection is ****, Swamp.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Because perfection is ****, Swamp.

Never have I heard of such a contradiction before.